Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:22 pm
Hilarious!Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:16 pm
* Also, this bit from Triumph the Insult Comic Dog, a classic
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Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:30 pm
I'm not sure what you think I had in mind, but I was just trying to clarify what you were saying, whether you were saying that you don't think systemic racism is even possible in any society, or if you were saying that it has already been eliminated from our society. It sounds like you mean the latter.pp4me wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:16 pmYes, that sounds like an excellent example but that problem has already been solved unless you believe the "voter suppression" narrative being pushed by a lot of Dems.
Judging from most of the posts in this thread the majority of posters seem to have a different definition of systemic racism than what you had in mind.
Sounds like WiseOne is suggesting eliminating a lot of welfare, along with providing government-backed low-income jobs, childcare, and social funding. I think the first part would help, but I have doubts about the second part. Government involvement with almost anything just means needless waste. I guess we made our bed, and now we have to lie in it though.
Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:30 pm
That really is brilliant.I Shrugged wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:22 pmHilarious!Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:16 pm
* Also, this bit from Triumph the Insult Comic Dog, a classic
Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:26 pm
Questions for WiseOne:
1. Would your government-backed job, child-care, and social programs be open only to minorities? Or have any sort of racial preference?
2. Do you believe that our society has systemic racism?
I probably should have said this earlier, but I personally don't believe we have systemic racism. As a white person, however, I would like to check myself and see if I have any blind spots on this matter, so I am open to counter-arguments. I'm not trying to pull any gotchas on anybody.
1. Would your government-backed job, child-care, and social programs be open only to minorities? Or have any sort of racial preference?
2. Do you believe that our society has systemic racism?
I probably should have said this earlier, but I personally don't believe we have systemic racism. As a white person, however, I would like to check myself and see if I have any blind spots on this matter, so I am open to counter-arguments. I'm not trying to pull any gotchas on anybody.
Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:54 pm
Sorry for making assumptions about what you had in mind but given current events I automatically equated the George Floyd incident with what somebody means when they use the term "systemic racism".stuper1 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:30 pmI'm not sure what you think I had in mind, but I was just trying to clarify what you were saying, whether you were saying that you don't think systemic racism is even possible in any society, or if you were saying that it has already been eliminated from our society. It sounds like you mean the latter.pp4me wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:16 pmYes, that sounds like an excellent example but that problem has already been solved unless you believe the "voter suppression" narrative being pushed by a lot of Dems.
Judging from most of the posts in this thread the majority of posters seem to have a different definition of systemic racism than what you had in mind.
Sounds like WiseOne is suggesting eliminating a lot of welfare, along with providing government-backed low-income jobs, childcare, and social funding. I think the first part would help, but I have doubts about the second part. Government involvement with almost anything just means needless waste. I guess we made our bed, and now we have to lie in it though.
I watched the long version of that incident in Minneapolis on Hannity last night and just like him I found it appalling. I don't see any evidence of racism however. I can find plenty of incidents just as appalling on youtube where a white person is the victim. As I posted on another thread I've had my own dealings with asshole cops (and sadistic people in the military, BTW) in the past.
They also showed video of the incident at Wendy's in Atlanta where the black man overpowered the police and took one of their tasers and got shot in the back trying to run away. Personally, I don't think they should have shot him in the back like that but it isn't as clear cut as the George Floyd case. But I still don't see where there is any racism involved. Stacey Abrams, who, God help us, might be next in line for POTUS if Biden gets elected, said the man was shot for being black and falling asleep in his car at the Wendy's drive-thru. I'd say she must not have watched the video but I'm guessing she probably did and wants to push that narrative any way.
Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:45 pm
I watched the majority of the body-cam video (~40 minutes, I think), plus a separate surveillance camera video, and it seems pretty clear to me that the cop who shot him was acting in self-defense. One of the cops started to handcuff the guy, a struggle with both cops ensued, the guy grabbed the taser from one of the cops and started to run with it, turned while still running and shot the taser in the cop's direction (but missed), at which point the cop immediately reached for his gun and returned fire.pp4me wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:54 pm They also showed video of the incident at Wendy's in Atlanta where the black man overpowered the police and took one of their tasers and got shot in the back trying to run away. Personally, I don't think they should have shot him in the back like that but it isn't as clear cut as the George Floyd case.
The fact that the bullet(s) hit the man in the back is incidental to the fact that the cop was returning fire a split-second after almost getting tased. I don't know the legal technicalities, but it seems like common sense that if you're a cop and someone steals your taser and attempts to shoot you with it (or even threatens to), you have to view him as a deadly threat since he could potentially tase you then steal your gun and shoot you with it.
What surprised me the most in the body-cam video was how courteous, professional, and accommodating the first cop was. He had to tell the man multiple times to move his car out of the drive-thru line, and the guy kept passing out at the wheel. After he finally parked his car, he kept exiting his car and approaching the cop, and the cop had to remind him several times to get back in his car and stay there. Yet the cop never lost his cool or became hostile. He practically bent over backwards to be courteous, understanding, and even friendly to a guy who was obviously three sheets to the wind and refused to follow simple directions.
Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:25 pm
Most of the cops I've heard on the subject seem to agree with you that they followed procedures by the book and I don't necessarily disagree. I tend to think however that if those cops had continued to deal with the subject in the same courteous manner when it came time to handcuff him it might not have happened. The man was obviously seriously drunk with all that entails, having been there and done that, but it was also obvious that he was capable of being reasoned with without a threat of violence. From my admittedly distant observation point, the triggering point was when the cops abruptly got out the handcuffs and displayed their intention to take him into custody by force. I do think that could have been handled better and maybe this video would be a good one for training in the future.Tortoise wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:45 pmI watched the majority of the body-cam video (~40 minutes, I think), plus a separate surveillance camera video, and it seems pretty clear to me that the cop who shot him was acting in self-defense. One of the cops started to handcuff the guy, a struggle with both cops ensued, the guy grabbed the taser from one of the cops and started to run with it, turned while still running and shot the taser in the cop's direction (but missed), at which point the cop immediately reached for his gun and returned fire.pp4me wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:54 pm They also showed video of the incident at Wendy's in Atlanta where the black man overpowered the police and took one of their tasers and got shot in the back trying to run away. Personally, I don't think they should have shot him in the back like that but it isn't as clear cut as the George Floyd case.
The fact that the bullet(s) hit the man in the back is incidental to the fact that the cop was returning fire a split-second after almost getting tased. I don't know the legal technicalities, but it seems like common sense that if you're a cop and someone steals your taser and attempts to shoot you with it (or even threatens to), you have to view him as a deadly threat since he could potentially tase you then steal your gun and shoot you with it.
What surprised me the most in the body-cam video was how courteous, professional, and accommodating the first cop was. He had to tell the man multiple times to move his car out of the drive-thru line, and the guy kept passing out at the wheel. After he finally parked his car, he kept exiting his car and approaching the cop, and the cop had to remind him several times to get back in his car and stay there. Yet the cop never lost his cool or became hostile. He practically bent over backwards to be courteous, understanding, and even friendly to a guy who was obviously three sheets to the wind and refused to follow simple directions.
As for the poor Wendy's restaurant that got burned down - what did they do to deserve this? Listening to the 911 call it sounded like a black lady calling in to report it. Wonder how many of her and her co-workers are out of work today.
Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:58 pm
The visuals are under embargo. This article represents the mainstream understanding of pale skinned, green eyed redheaded women. Note, that the science only addresses the female of the species.Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:55 amI've heard of A theory, maybe not yours. If it involves pale redheads with green eyes I'll need some visuals.Mark Leavy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:17 pm And have you heard my theory about redheads and pain killers?
...
Anesthetic Requirement is Increased in Redheads
My [ahem] experience suggests that it runs much deeper than that. My theory is that they are not human at all, but a different life form sent to destroy the earth. The progenitors were surely Ulysses' sirens. (artistic visuals)
No complaints on my end. It should probably be a tick box on the medical questionnaire.
Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:09 pm
The video I saw was a black guy telling the camera "Look at the white girl trying to set shit on fire. Look at the white girl. Look at the white girl trying to burn down Wendy's. This wasn't us." Their crime was in calling the police on the drunk guy passed out in the drive-thru line. One of BLM's demands is that police stop enforcing "petty" crimes, which presumably includes passing out and blocking a drive-thru.
EDIT: here's the video on Twitter. In another tweet, he mentions that Antifa had employed a support by fire position:
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:20 pm
Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:00 pm
Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:05 pm
stuper, is this thread inspired by something Scott Adams wrote?
Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:46 pm
No, it was inspired by me believing that there is no systemic racism but being told that I'm blinded by my white privilege. I haven't seen anything here to change my belief, although it is evolving a bit. I think the riots we're seeing now are due not to actual systemic racism that still exists, but rather to the lingering effects of systemic racism that previously existed. Unfortunately, no amount of government money poured in to try to help the minorities is going to help much. It just creates dependency. They have to pull themselves out of poverty, which is just as it was for poor Italians and Irish who came to America. It's different with blacks due to slavery, Jim Crow, white guilt, and black resentment. For anyone who wants to be part of the solution, I recommend volunteering at something like Big Brothers to help on the individual level, but don't vote for Democrats who will just create more dependency by throwing more money at the problem.
What did Scott Adams write?
What did Scott Adams write?
Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:28 pm
https://twitter.com/ScottAdamsSays/stat ... 2031250433
And then the context comes after that.Today is the last day of my seven day challenge to provide a current example of systemic racism in America. No examples yet, just conceptual takes.
Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:38 pm
An essay broken up into 16 tweets in rapid succession. Interesting choice of medium. I personally would have just sent the first provocative tweet and then followed it up with a single tweet containing a link to my essay for context.I Shrugged wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:28 pm https://twitter.com/ScottAdamsSays/stat ... 2031250433
And then the context comes after that.Today is the last day of my seven day challenge to provide a current example of systemic racism in America. No examples yet, just conceptual takes.
I don't use social media; is this "essay packetizing" something that a lot of Twitter users are doing these days?
Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:50 pm
I don't think people can answer your question because...what is "systemic racism"?stuper1 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:30 pmI'm not sure what you think I had in mind, but I was just trying to clarify what you were saying, whether you were saying that you don't think systemic racism is even possible in any society, or if you were saying that it has already been eliminated from our society. It sounds like you mean the latter.pp4me wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:16 pmYes, that sounds like an excellent example but that problem has already been solved unless you believe the "voter suppression" narrative being pushed by a lot of Dems.
Judging from most of the posts in this thread the majority of posters seem to have a different definition of systemic racism than what you had in mind.
Sounds like WiseOne is suggesting eliminating a lot of welfare, along with providing government-backed low-income jobs, childcare, and social funding. I think the first part would help, but I have doubts about the second part. Government involvement with almost anything just means needless waste. I guess we made our bed, and now we have to lie in it though.
I was thinking about how to handle high unskilled unemployment, while you work on solving the immigration and outsourced manufacturing problems that cause it. Low paying "community service" seems just as good a method as any, but yes you're right, it could end up as another worthless government program with unintended consequences. Child care is a real issue though. How do you deal with the single-mom scenario otherwise? You have to make it unpleasant enough that it will be seen as something to be avoided, but you also can't demand the impossible (that a mom with a small child go out and work every day). That's why I thought it should cost real money, even if on a sliding scale. Having Grandma watch the baby will suddenly be a viable option if Mom realizes that child care isn't free.
Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:04 pm
Systemic racism would be racism that is built into the system. From what I can tell from the responses on this thread, the only in-built racism at this point is affirmative action programs, which are supposedly trying to help minorities but likely hurt more than they help.
I think what a lot of people on the street equate with systemic racism is cops hassling black people more than white people. They never stop to consider that blacks commit a lot more crime than whites, so they bring hassling upon even innocent people of their own race. Even black cops say that they treat black people worse than white people
It's all just a big mess. I don't hold out much hope that society is going to solve the problem of black underachievement. It's not really society's problem to solve. It's black people's problem to solve. I don't have much hope that they will on a mass level, but of course for individuals there is always hope if they are willing to take responsibility.
I think what a lot of people on the street equate with systemic racism is cops hassling black people more than white people. They never stop to consider that blacks commit a lot more crime than whites, so they bring hassling upon even innocent people of their own race. Even black cops say that they treat black people worse than white people
It's all just a big mess. I don't hold out much hope that society is going to solve the problem of black underachievement. It's not really society's problem to solve. It's black people's problem to solve. I don't have much hope that they will on a mass level, but of course for individuals there is always hope if they are willing to take responsibility.
Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:26 pm
Is that what they're defining as "systemic racism"?Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:09 pm One of BLM's demands is that police stop enforcing "petty" crimes, which presumably includes passing out and blocking a drive-thru.
NYC solved its rampant crime problem in the early 1990s by cracking down on petty crimes. It was called the Broken Windows theory - and it worked. It turns out that people who commit those petty crimes not only harm quality of life for everyone else, they are also likely to commit more serious crimes.
Anyway, it's pretty rich that this black organization is demanding that black people be allowed to commit crimes in peace. Which harms mainly other black people. Yeah that makes perfect sense.
Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:24 am
You mean eliminating Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben, tearing down statues and renaming military bases isn't going to get the job done?
Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:19 am
Yes, it’s quite common. A lot of people won’t click a link. And now that Google is threatening to demonetize sites with comments they don’t like, it’s better to keep the discussion on Twitter anyway.Tortoise wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:38 pmAn essay broken up into 16 tweets in rapid succession. Interesting choice of medium. I personally would have just sent the first provocative tweet and then followed it up with a single tweet containing a link to my essay for context.I Shrugged wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:28 pm https://twitter.com/ScottAdamsSays/stat ... 2031250433
And then the context comes after that.Today is the last day of my seven day challenge to provide a current example of systemic racism in America. No examples yet, just conceptual takes.
I don't use social media; is this "essay packetizing" something that a lot of Twitter users are doing these days?
Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:47 pm
Scott Adams had an interesting take on reparations for slavery the other day. I think it was on Carl Tuckerson's show.flyingpylon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:19 amYes, it’s quite common. A lot of people won’t click a link. And now that Google is threatening to demonetize sites with comments they don’t like, it’s better to keep the discussion on Twitter anyway.Tortoise wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:38 pmAn essay broken up into 16 tweets in rapid succession. Interesting choice of medium. I personally would have just sent the first provocative tweet and then followed it up with a single tweet containing a link to my essay for context.I Shrugged wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:28 pm https://twitter.com/ScottAdamsSays/stat ... 2031250433
And then the context comes after that.Today is the last day of my seven day challenge to provide a current example of systemic racism in America. No examples yet, just conceptual takes.
I don't use social media; is this "essay packetizing" something that a lot of Twitter users are doing these days?
He said if you were a space alien who came to earth with no biases and took a look at the reparations question and how much each black person should be owed, the only reasonable way to do the calculation would be to compare the lives of black American slave descendants to what it would have been had they remained in Africa. In which case, they would all be writing us a check.
Very clever to blame it on the space aliens too.