Iron is Toxic, Very Toxic -- Avoid At All Costs!

[MachineGhost]

Cooked lectins are fine and cooking destroys lectins. Don't eat raw lectins. Even Hippocrates wrote that it would be foolish to eat raw wheat.

Only pressure cooking completely destroys lectins.  Regular cooking will not get rid of it all.  And keep in mind that gluten is a lectin.

Secondly, have a look at this, about the supposedly toxic WGA lectin:

Plenty of evidence the other way, as well.  Don't cherry pick for your anchoring bias.

[MachineGhost]

I'd also point out that even compounds like phytic acid—what we here once feared as being an "anti-nutrient" is now known to have beneficial health properties. It may be related to the fact that phytic acid is believed to chelate excess "free" iron in the bloodstream and tissues.

I can confirm it chelates iron and just about every other mineral.  I wake up with excruciating muscle cramps in my feet and legs when taking 1 tsp of phytic acid at bedtime now (it started after about a month of taking it).  You really need to double your multi-mineral dose to be safe.

However, I think it could have use in taking a smaller amount along with a red meat meal as a safety measure.

[MachineGhost]

Now you're going to tell us that coconut oil is bad too! Say it ain't so!

As with all saturated fats, it's inflammatory.  You decide.

[MachineGhost]

Which proves that the gluten intestinal permeability scaremongering from low carbers and anti-grain advocates was total bullshit because their recommendations was to eat coconut oil and MCT oil that does the exact same thing.

Give me break.  It wasn't bullshit.  Again, its lack of facts and herding behavior.

Look, you can rationalize your anchoring bias to eat gluten all you want, but if it's going to infect your opinion and selective facts, then I'm going to be the other side of the coin. 

But I agree with the others, its good to see you back.  I miss a good argument!

[MachineGhost]

Well everyone likes butter better than coconut oil!!

In my view, the only thing healthy about coconut oil is the MCT's that you can just buy extracted/ioslated to use directly instead.  So there's no reason to use coconut oil or butter as both are inflammatory via the saturated fats, unless you want the secondary ingredients from them.  Me, I prefer to get my stuff pure, concentrated and unadultered from a supplement.

Fact is, EVOO is still hands down the best oil to use and that is both for primary oil and secondary phytonutrients reason.  For cooking, get Extra Light from Bertoli (it's been lab tested) if you don't want the taste.

[Cortopassi]

Look out, MG is back.  He's going to spew!

[moda0306]

Well everyone likes butter better than coconut oil!!

In my view, the only thing healthy about coconut oil is the MCT's that you can just buy extracted/ioslated to use directly instead.  So there's no reason to use coconut oil or butter as both are inflammatory via the saturated fats, unless you want the secondary ingredients from them.  Me, I prefer to get my stuff pure, concentrated and unadultered from a supplement.

Fact is, EVOO is still hands down the best oil to use and that is both for primary oil and secondary phytonutrients reason.  For cooking, get Extra Light from Bertoli (it's been lab tested) if you don't want the taste.

Isn't cooking with unsaturated fats not recommended due to oxidation?  Do you cook with olive oil?

[Xan]

Back on the iron topic: apparently hemochromatosis (a genetic predisposition for too much blood iron to build up) is a thing.  It's most common among people of northern European descent.  I've just discovered it runs in my family, so I'm having an iron test and the genetic test done in the near future.  Some others of you might want to do the same.  The long term effects of too much iron in the blood are pretty nasty.

[MachineGhost]

But it is, at this point, pretty well defined science that excessive carbs through the standard American diet, sugar, pastas, breads, etc. is the overwhelming leading cause of diabetes, obesity, and probably the root of many other diseases.

No it isn't.  It's EXCESS calories.  There's no difference between low carb and high carb in terms of pre-diabetes or diabetes.  In the short term.

P.S.  Inflammation is the ROOT causes of many diseases.

And to throw another monkey wrench into the works, there's at least one study showing that its not the ferritin level that is the problem and may actually be a beneficial indicator.

[jafs]

Well everyone likes butter better than coconut oil!!

In my view, the only thing healthy about coconut oil is the MCT's that you can just buy extracted/ioslated to use directly instead.  So there's no reason to use coconut oil or butter as both are inflammatory via the saturated fats, unless you want the secondary ingredients from them.  Me, I prefer to get my stuff pure, concentrated and unadultered from a supplement.

Fact is, EVOO is still hands down the best oil to use and that is both for primary oil and secondary phytonutrients reason.  For cooking, get Extra Light from Bertoli (it's been lab tested) if you don't want the taste.

Isn't cooking with unsaturated fats not recommended due to oxidation?  Do you cook with olive oil?

My understanding is that cooking at low-medium temperatures with olive oil is fine.  For high temperature cooking, you want an oil with a higher smoke point - there are several vegetable oils that have been refined and have high smoke points (I know, they're refined).

There's also one unrefined vegetable oil that's got a higher smoke point - I can't remember if it's almond or avocado, but it's more expensive.

I use EVOO for everything except high temperature cooking, and then safflower or sunflower oil for the hotter stuff.

[MachineGhost]

The important distinction is between whole grains and refined ones.

It's the highly refined, processed grains that cause all of the things you mention, not whole grains.

I've lost a bunch of weight by virtually eliminating refined grains, and gotten my A1C tests from "pre diabetic" to in the normal range.

Rice is refined.  Mashed potatoes is refined.  Oats is refined.  Grits is refined.  I'm not fat.  I don't eat EXCESS calories or excess carbs.  Refined grains are extremely calorie and carb dense.  The key is paying attention to what you eat and cutting down your calories; which happens naturally when you go low carb and don't replace it with the same level of calories in form of protein or fat.

[jafs]

Brown rice and other whole grains are different from things like white rice in a number of important ways.  And mashed potatoes that you make yourself from potatoes with skins on isn't "refined", unless I misunderstand the term.

I'm sure you know that - they're higher in fiber and protein, for example.

Low carb is a mistake from what I've read - the best idea is a balanced diet of whole foods, including complex carbs, and healthy fats.

My major dietary change was to cut way down on non-whole grain rice and pasta, replacing them with brown rice and whole wheat pasta.

[MachineGhost]

Machineghost recommended IP6 to me and told me that he had tried it. He said he was waking up with yellow sweat on his sheets and pillows which he attributed to the removal of iron. I never found out whether or not his iron was reduced by this method and still haven't been convinced that high iron levels causes diabetes.

That only happened one time in the very beginning, but it was interesting.  That was before I started using the infrared sauna every day again, so it is unlikely to re-appear.

I haven't finished my IP6 due to the difficulty, but I will retest my ferritin levels when I do.

[MachineGhost]

So what do you think of ketosis?  Is it beneficial to go into it once in a while?  Are the claims about brain health and keto valid? 

Like low carb diets, ketosis can be harmful in ther long-term.  Just take MCT oil and you get the same effect.

[MachineGhost]

Knowing more about the subject now I also have to wonder: how is whole wheat flour able to last so long if exposing the germ turns it rancid soon? It's hard to believe this expensive organic frou-frou whole wheat flour isn't filled with preservatives or irradiated germ or something like that, or else by the time I bought it would already be disgusting.

It doesn't because I suspect the germ is subclinically rancid already if you bought it pre-grounded.  Same deal with brown rice.  I will have an inflammatory reaction to either one due to the fat oxidxation.  I haven't yet tried vacuum-sealed brown rice to store in the fridge yet, but I do keep my brown rice flour and almond meal in the crisper drawer.

[Cortopassi]

But it is, at this point, pretty well defined science that excessive carbs through the standard American diet, sugar, pastas, breads, etc. is the overwhelming leading cause of diabetes, obesity, and probably the root of many other diseases.

No it isn't.  It's EXCESS calories.  There's no difference between low carb and high carb in terms of pre-diabetes or diabetes.  In the short term.

P.S.  Inflammation is the ROOT causes of many diseases.

And to throw another monkey wrench into the works, there's at least one study showing that its not the ferritin level that is the problem and may actually be a beneficial indicator.

I've gone near zero carbs for a month at a time in the past couple years.  And while I did not measure actual calories, I suspect I likely ate more calories during that month because 70+% of the calories I was eating were from fat.

I lost weight every time.

This is like Trump vs. Clinton.  You'll have some hard core people saying high carb is not an issue, and others that it will eventually kill you.  I can't say for sure.  I have been reasonably low carb compared to the standard Am diet (probably sub 100g/day, many days sub 50) for at least 3 years or so.  I have weighed within +/-5 lbs that whole time.  Even before, when I was much higher carbs.  I just dont' eat a lot in general.

I cannot say for a fact anything health-wise has improved for me going mainly low carb; I am generally healthy.  But personally I have seen enough evidence in my extended family that high carbs = fat people and low carbs = skinny to moderate people. 

Sure, it is quite likely more the type of carbs vs. the absolute amount.

But as for calorie consumption, see this film:  http://thatsugarfilm.com/  He spent 30 days eating the same number of calories he did prior, but focused on eating items that were considered "healthy" but had lots of added sugar.  He gained a lot of weight and got a belly and his blood numbers went to crap.

[l82start]

And to throw another monkey wrench into the works, there's at least one study showing that its not the ferritin level that is the problem and may actually be a beneficial indicator.

OK i will bite... having been told just up thread (and not entirely buying it) that my high (mid+ normal rage according to doctors)  ferritin level is bad/unhealthy what is the contrarian evidence 

[MachineGhost]

Look out, MG is back.  He's going to spew!

Hmmm.... was that an insult or a compliment?

[MachineGhost]

Isn't cooking with unsaturated fats not recommended due to oxidation?  Do you cook with olive oil?

If you cook with EVOO it will destroy the phytonutrients so you're wasting your money.  I use Bertoli Extra Light for cooking now.  Oxidation isn't a problem with either but its obviously not going to last through as many high temperature deep drying cycles as a saturated fat (which is not food anyone should be eating anyway).

[Pointedstick]

So now saturated fat is bad?

[MachineGhost]

Back on the iron topic: apparently hemochromatosis (a genetic predisposition for too much blood iron to build up) is a thing.  It's most common among people of northern European descent.  I've just discovered it runs in my family, so I'm having an iron test and the genetic test done in the near future.  Some others of you might want to do the same.  The long term effects of too much iron in the blood are pretty nasty.

My Gma has that... she's 95, has eaten the S.A.D. shit all her life and still no diabetes.  I don't know the actual level of her blood glucose, though, but I'd be shocked if it was under 100.  She's an exception to the rule.

[MachineGhost]

I use EVOO for everything except high temperature cooking, and then safflower or sunflower oil for the hotter stuff.

Are you crazy?  Any Omega-6 oil at a high temperature will produce nasty oxidised and carcinogenic toxins, especially in the smoke.  EVOO has a high enough smoke point to deep fry with, just not as high as the saturates, and the phytonutrients help protect it further.  But why in the hell would anyone need to be frying "food" at 450-500F+ or higher?

[MachineGhost]

Brown rice and other whole grains are different from things like white rice in a number of important ways.  And mashed potatoes that you make yourself from potatoes with skins on isn't "refined", unless I misunderstand the term.

I'm sure Bob's of Red Mill would agree with your misunderstanding. 

I'm sure you know that - they're higher in fiber and protein, for example.

No difference between dehydrated mashed and whole potato mashed AFAICT.  Potatoe skins are toxic anyway.

Low carb is a mistake from what I've read - the best idea is a balanced diet of whole foods, including complex carbs, and healthy fats.

Did you know carbohydrate homeostasis is at 30% of calories?  So anything below that is "low carb" and sets you up for long-term health issues.  Gumby and me know this quite well from experience.

My major dietary change was to cut way down on non-whole grain rice and pasta, replacing them with brown rice and whole wheat pasta.

Unrefined has less calories for the same volume of food.

[MachineGhost]

So now saturated fat is bad?

I never believed it was healthy, especially from personal experience.  It was just Ancestral/Paleo gooroo propaganda.  Saturated fat IS scientifically inflammatory.  Now, whether it does this to you in a way you can readily observe or is hidden is what is variable.  I suspect that for most people it is the latter which is why they go decades eating S.A.D. shit and then suddenly "sprout" diseases from chronic inflammation.

[Benko]

Perhaps one issue is context i.e. is saturated fat equally bad in person A eating a super low carb diet and person B who is eating the average diet including  sugar frosted flakes (who spikes blood sugar/insulin).


I've run across this idea before (i.e. that saturated fats are only bad or at least much worse in the context of people who eat lots of sugars), but here is a quick reference:

"Dr. Volek summed it up quite nicely with his quote:

Perhaps regardless of whether saturated fats are inflammatory or not, if consumed in the presence of a low-carbohydrate caveman-like diet, it may not even matter."

Dr. Volek’s group also looked at whether the amount of saturated fat we eat on a low-carb diet actually ends up floating around in our blood. In his study, he compared the blood levels of saturated fat in two low-carb diet groups, one eating double the amount of saturated fat versus the other.22 When he looked at the serum levels of saturated fat in the participants, there was no difference. Why did this happen? Likely, when there is no insulin around because there are no carbs around to stimulate it, we breakdown the saturated fat and use it for energy. The study by this group mentioned above18 found that the low-carb group ate three times the saturated fat as the low-fat group, but was found to have less saturated fats circulating in the blood. If insulin isn’t present, our fat cells turn off fat production and turn on lipolysis (fat breakdown).

http://www.cavemandoctor.com/2012/03/27 ... the-blame/

Which reminds me of Marc Levy on here.  Does he eat lower carb?