Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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Gumby
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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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stone wrote:
Gumby wrote: Still waiting on that proof (please).
Surely you get the point that in the real world there are only degrees of implausibility. There is no such thing as "proof" in the real world. My way of "arming myself accordingly" against sentient computers taking over is to see the "accordingly" as not at all since it is nonsense. I also don't worry too much about spontaneous human combustion.
Yes. But, keep in mind that many of the "experts" of the 19th century were sure that cigarettes, heroin and cocaine were perfectly safe.

[align=center]Image[/align]
[align=center]Source: Therapeutic Gazette, 1899[/align]

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[align=center]Source: Therapeutic Gazette, 1899[/align]

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[align=center]Source: Clinical excerpts, Volume 5, 1899[/align]

[align=center]Image[/align]
[align=center]Source: Therapeutic Gazette, 1899[/align]

Some of these experts couldn't conceive of a plausible explanation of how those technological advances could harm anyone. I'm not convinced that modern day "experts" have all of the risks figured out.

There seems to be an inability for experts to utter the phrase, "I don't know."

All we are asking for is a choice and labeling of the foods we consume. I really don't understand how you can fault someone for wanting to know if they are consuming a "beta" version of food.
Last edited by Gumby on Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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stone wrote: I have never done anything with GMO plants but I do work in biomedical science and genetically engineer bacteria and fish a lot (they never leave the lab except in an incineration bin/bleach).
Thank you for letting us know.
Trying to do biology without using genetic engineering would be like trying to do astronomy without using a telescope.
If the telescopes could, on their own accord, lift off from Earth, travel to distant galaxies, pick up stuff (living or not) and bring it back to Earth from those galaxies, yes, I could accept this analogy; otherwise it does not fit. Fortunately telescopes cannot do any of this without the actions of humans, at least not based on current scientific knowledge and technology.  We have control over telescopes.  If one malfunctions, we just turn it off and fix it and whatever bad data it generated.  The harm a bad one might do is limited in scope.

The same cannot be said for GMOs used in the food supply. Their pollens travel on the wind to unsuspecting farms and contaminate the gene pools of agricultural products.  Whatever toxin replicated in every cell of the GMO travels with it--including into the bodily systems of the animals (regardless of the social classifications scheme we use for the animals--game, livestock, wild animals, pets, people) that consume or otherwise encounter them. 

They were released onto the unsuspecting public, particularly in the Americas, without adequate long-term testing, without a way to evaluate any future problems they might bring.  Despite spending lots of wealth for health care, Americans (United States) are now the sickest people among "advanced" industrialized countries, with working-class/under-class Brits having better health profiles than uber-wealthy American corporate chieftains, who exercise, de-stress, and do everything else "right" for their health.  American children are gradually becoming sick to one degree or another, to the point where researchers expect the newer generations will be the first to not outlive their parents.  And Americans have frighteningly high infant mortality rates.  Who knows whether or not edible GMOs have anything to do with this--there is evidence, anecdotal and otherwise, that GMOs might be implicated.  The questions are worthy of genuine scientific exploration.

The notion that nutrition plays a role in ill health has increasingly become standard, and treating chronic diseases of all types--arthritis, psoriasis, multiple sclerosis, diabetes I and II, thyroid diseases, osteoporosis, cardiovascular diseases, kidney diseases, Crohn's disease, allergies/food sensitivities, infertility, celiac disease, to name a few, requires the patients to be careful about what they're eating and drinking.  It's a sad state of affairs that Americans have no choice over whether or not we know what's in the bag or box we're considering.  Europeans do; we should have the same rights as theirs.
The first uses of internal combustion engines or electricity were pretty useless.
IMO, GMO technology used in food is still in that "first use" phase. 

And subsequent versions and uses of the internal combustion engine have proven problematic in all sorts of unforseen ways, but at least (in theory) we can stop using them.  It's not clear whether or not we can "stop" a particular GMO unleashed in food, even if we stop producing the seeds and burn up all the remaining seeds, crops, and processed foods associated with them.

Had these companies limited their use of GMO technology purely to non-food activities there would still be issues, but not as big an outcry.  There were GM  bacteria eating oil spills back in the early 1980s (or was that the 1970s?).  There are also GMO-produced versions of hormones--insulin and human growth hormone, HGH, come to mind--that truly did solve problems associated with natural versions of those pharmaceuticals, like allergic reactions from animal-derived insulin, and HGH unknowingly harvested from people with CJD.  (No good thing is without consequence; now that HGH is more readily available, otherwise healthy people now take it to buff up and potentially give their bodies an opportunity to become diabetic or to grow cancer like never before.) 

At a minimum there should have been 10 to 20 years of human feeding studies before any GMOs used as food were released onto the public.  Fifty to seventy years--enough time to see whether there were any effects in grandchildren of the initial eaters--would have been better. 

GMOs used as food was a prematurely implemented technology with hidden and obvious dangers.  The potential monetary gains looked good, but the negatives of the externalities are massive.  What we have now is a human mass experiment inflicted on an unknowing public. They were released purely for monetary gain, by cronies of Monsanto et al in the Bush I/Clinton administrations, with lots of propaganda about solving the problems of feeding an expanding world population used to launch them.  They need to be withdrawn until such time that they are proven safe.  In the meantime people need to know if GMOs are in the food they eat and feed their children, so they can make their own decisions about them.
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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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I figured out how one can (supposedly) figure out if the produce they are purchasing is GMO or not...
curtisnutrition.com wrote:Thanks to Dr. Frank Lipman, here are the basics of what you should know about PLU codes:

1) If there are only four numbers in the PLU, this means that the produce was grown conventionally or “traditionally”? with the use of pesticides. The last four letters of  the PLU code are simply what kind of vegetable or fruit. An example is that all bananas are labeled with the code of 4011.

2) If there are five numbers in the PLU code, and the number starts with “8?, this tells you that the item is a genetically modified fruit or vegetable. Genetically modified fruits and vegetables trump being organic. So, it is possible to eat organic produce that are grown from genetically modified seeds. A genetically engineered (GE or GMO) banana would be: 84011

3) If there are five numbers in the PLU code, and the number starts with “9?, this tells you that the produce was grown organically and is not genetically modified. An organic banana would be: 94011

Source: http://curtisnutrition.com/articles/seeds-of-change/
Nice!
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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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[align=center]Image[/align]
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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Is there candy with no GMOs?
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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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Stone, you ought to read this.  It is peer-reviewed studies with full references.

GMO Myths and Truths.  An evidence-based examination of the claims made for the safety and efficacy of genetically modified crops.

http://bit.ly/O0IAQS
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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Australian scientists are expressing grave concerns over a new type of genetically engineered wheat that may cause major health problems for people that consume it.

University of Canterbury Professor Jack Heinemann announced the results of his genetic research into the wheat, a type developed by Australia's Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO), at a press conference last month.

"What we found is that the molecules created in this wheat, intended to silence wheat genes, can match human genes, and through ingestion, these molecules can enter human beings and potentially silence our genes," Heinemann stated. "The findings are absolutely assured. There is no doubt that these matches exist."


http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/332822
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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[align=center]Image[/align]
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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[align=center]Image[/align]
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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It's mind-boggling that there are people dumb enough to be influenced by misleading corporate free political speech (they're hammering two false points over and over: it'll raise the cost of labeling and it'll invite ambulance chaser lawsuits).  The corporate interests have spent $45+ million vs $6+ million for the consumerist side.

Proposition 37: Genetically Engineered Foods. Mandatory Labeling. Initiative Statute.
Yes: 45.1% (-0.4%)%
No: 43.2%
Undecided: 11.6%

Source: http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/ballot/
Last edited by MachineGhost on Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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With 92.6% of the precincts reporting and a 50.2% voter turnout, 53% of those have voted NO and 47% have voted YES to the GMO labeling proposition.

Monsanto and Big Farma win again.  It's downright shameful.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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Disgraceful. But there will be a next time.
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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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Monsanto's win on Prop 37 may actually be a good thing. Now more people are talking about it...

[align=center]Image[/align]
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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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Simonjester wrote: prop 37 failed, but there are more uncounted votes out there than the margin it won by, sign a petition to count ALL the votes, don't let Monsanto and the politicians declare a winner without counting the votes of the people.

http://www.moveon.org/r?r=284378&id=57739-21425631-Q__km5x&t=2
Thanks Simon. I'm not from California but I plan to sign it anyway.
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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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From the petition organizer...
ALL VOTES ON PROP 37 WILL BE COUNTED, not because of our petition, but because it is required by law that all votes be counted. The counties have until December 7 to report the vote and Debra Bowen, Secretary of State, has until December 14 to certify the vote.

The final results WILL BE PUBLISHED, so every vote cast on Prop 37 will be honored.
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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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DOJ mysteriously quits Monsanto Investigation:

http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott ... -ends-thud

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but this thing stinks pretty thoroughly...
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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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While I think Monsanto embodies the worst of what we have allowed modern corporations to become, I find this thread kind of humorous because it shows how different people can get attached to, and worked up over certain issues.

Gumby thinks Im all irrationally worked up in another thread over my concerns related to rampant growth in consumerism and its effects on our planets ecosystem. By reading that thread you would get the idea that he is the type of person who would be championing any form of modern technology that increases crop yields as some necessary step in societal progress.

Yet, ironically in stark contrast to what I expected to find here based on his comments in my thread, Gumby seems to be all worked up over GMO crops and pesticides and instead favors a more tempered and slow approach to scientific development in this area.

Humans are pushing through new boundaries in myriad areas of life on this planet. It is as if the race of human development has transformed from a slow jog into a sprint.  Its funny how different parts of this larger rapid growth and development trend concern people in different ways.

Personally, I think that we would best be served as a species by looking at development and growth in all areas as more of a marathon rather than a sprint. Slowing down the pace and rate of change might have positive benefits in avoiding large scale catastrophes in the long run while not making life any worse in the short run.
Last edited by doodle on Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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URGENT! Don't Allow the Biotech Industry and USDA to Override Court Rulings!

At this very moment, a Continuing Resolution (CR) for the big Appropriations funding bill is being debated on the Senate floor. It’s supposed to be about funding the government, but the Senate Appropriations Committee, chaired by Sen. Barbara Mikulski (who has always stood by our side in the past), has included a dangerous GMO rider that has no place in a funding bill.

This is the same rider we’ve told you about before—the so-called Farmer Assurance Provision (Section 735) that will strip federal courts of the authority to halt the sale and planting of illegal, potentially hazardous genetically engineered crops while USDA is performing an environmental impact statement.

If this provision becomes law, it will be a huge blow to the justice system, completely overriding judicial safeguards that protect both farmers and the public, and rendering judges’ rulings irrelevant.

This Monsanto-driven rider is simply a biotech industry ploy to continue to plant GE crops even when a court of law has found they were approved illegally.

The good news is that we have a window, albeit a small one: amendments will be offered over the next couple days, and then it will go to conference committee, which will reconcile the House bill (which was passed without the GMO rider language) with this Senate bill.  The bad news is that during the previous Congress, the House passed a bill with this exact same GMO language, so the House is unlikely to oppose it if the Senate includes it.

RIGHT NOW, TODAY, is our best—and perhaps our only—chance to have the GMO language pulled. Government funding expires on March 27, and the CR is a “must-pass”? before that deadline, so we need a big push from you and other concerned citizens RIGHT NOW. Forward this email to everyone you know and urge them take immediate action by sending a quick message through our Action Alert system.


Take Action: https://secure3.convio.net/aahf/site/Ad ... on&id=1415
Last edited by MachineGhost on Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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Boxer, DeFazio Introduce Bill to Require Labeling of Genetically Engineered Foods

http://www.boxer.senate.gov/en/press/re ... 042413.cfm

About time!  Get ready for the propaganda campaign against it.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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Hahahahahahahaha!

On top of that, many elected officials are in bed with the biotech industry—which, it should go without saying, immediately pushed back against the bill. The very day the bill was introduced, representatives of Monsanto and the Biotechnology Industry Organization (BIO), a GM trade group, objected to the bill even while acknowledging they had not actually read it, saying that they oppose GMO labeling on general principle: “Advocates of mandatory GMO labeling are working an agenda to vilify biotechnology and scare consumers away from safe and healthful food products.”? Once again Monsanto seems to be saying that it is so proud of its product that it doesn’t want consumers to know they are getting it.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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Heavy use of the world's most popular herbicide, Roundup, could be linked to a range of health problems and diseases, including Parkinson's, infertility and cancers, according to a new study.

The peer-reviewed report, published last week in the scientific journal Entropy, said evidence indicates that residues of "glyphosate," the chief ingredient in Roundup weed killer, which is sprayed over millions of acres of crops, has been found in food.

Those residues enhance the damaging effects of other food-borne chemical residues and toxins in the environment to disrupt normal body functions and induce disease, according to the report, authored by Stephanie Seneff, a research scientist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and Anthony Samsel, a retired science consultant from Arthur D. Little, Inc. Samsel is a former private environmental government contractor as well as a member of the Union of Concerned Scientists.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/ ... 3H20130425

Wow, it literally destroys the body's P450 detoxification pathways!  Scary stuff.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

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Re: Drop the Money Bomb on Monsanto

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It's as if those corporations are engaging in a war against humanity and other living beings.  There should be effective ways to fight back, before this stuff turns (literally) into a shoot 'em up, bomb 'em up death match.
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