When Will Iran Be Attacked?

[stone]

dualstow, I hope I'm not misunderstanding you, but Switzerland is not a non-military place at all. They have a big army but it is purely for homeland defense.

[dualstow]

dualstow, I hope I'm not misunderstanding you, but Switzerland is not a non-military place at all. They have a big army but it is purely for homeland defense.

You misunderstood but that was my fault for using shorthand. I only meant to say that if Switzerland were occupied and decided to try out a Gandhi-vs-the-British type of nonviolent resistance, they would only have so many skulls to let crack before the British came around. Fewer skulls, and less time. It sounds superficial, but I don't think so. I think it's significant. It's just math.

I know the Swiss have an army because I used to carry the knife.  ;)
---
Editing: inserted let before crack.

[MachineGhost]

Like I said before, personally, I think a people determined to be unconquorable can be unconquorable simply by using Ghandi style non-violence but I realise that that is a more contentious idea.

I really don't think that is going to work with terrorists who believe in being suicidal martyrs so they can get 69 female virgins in the afterlife.  There's no reasoning with religious extremists hell bent on death and destruction of everyone involved.  Zilch.  Nada.  None.

[MachineGhost]

I don't know about what others feel, but I think people like that are animals that need to be put down.

Some questions. 

How does a woman sodomize a man?

What happened to the daughter?

Was everyone involved black?

[stone]

Like I said before, personally, I think a people determined to be unconquorable can be unconquorable simply by using Ghandi style non-violence but I realise that that is a more contentious idea.

I really don't think that is going to work with terrorists who believe in being suicidal martyrs so they can get 69 female virgins in the afterlife.  There's no reasoning with religious extremists hell bent on death and destruction of everyone involved.  Zilch.  Nada.  None.

How are they going to achieve martyrdom at the hands of the non-violent?

[MachineGhost]

How are they going to achieve martyrdom at the hands of the non-violent?

They blow the non-violent and themselves up.  Its not about empathy but reward.

[stone]

Machine Ghost, I guess some Muslims presume that an atheist such as me would be incapable of humanity. They probably see us as valuing nothing but money and being driven by insatiable greed. Underneath it all we are all human. You don't have to chat about everyday stuff for long with a "fanatic" to cut through the fanaticism. Demonizing Islam is the surest way to push decent Muslims towards being anti-western fanatics IMO.

[dualstow]

I really don't think that is going to work with terrorists who believe in being suicidal martyrs so they can get 69 female virgins in the afterlife.  There's no reasoning with religious extremists hell bent on death and destruction of everyone involved.  Zilch.  Nada.  None.

The number is 72. How dare you use such a salacious number, Sir. This is sacred.

[MediumTex]

I really don't think that is going to work with terrorists who believe in being suicidal martyrs so they can get 69 72 female virgins in the afterlife.  

I always wonder if the martyrs think that this afterlife will also be paradise for those virgins.

I would think it would kind of suck to spend your whole life a virgin just to be raped by a murderer in heaven as his reward for killing innocent people.

[Coffee]

I'll ask it again. What if it was the United States dictating to Israel when it can go to war? I heard Netanyahu saying that no government should put a red light before Israel if they are not willing to put a red line before Iran. I think that was pretty clear.

If Israel wants its military to attack another country, how can any other country stop them?  Why don't they just ignore the U.S.?

If Israel wants its military to attack another country, how can any other country stop them?  Why don't they just ignore the U.S.?

Reub?

Been out of town, so I only skimmed the past 8 pages.  Apologies if I'm repeating:

- Fly over codes.  The U.S. controls the airspace between Israel and Iran, so for Israel to get to Iran their pilots need the fly over codes.  Any military plane not in possession of the correct fly over codes will be treated as a hostile.  Israel does not want to engage in a war with America, so their hands are tied right now.

- RE: Aid to Israel:  More than 80% of it comes back to us in the form of military purchases.  So, our federal government is giving money so that Israel (and other countries) can make purchases from our defense contractors.  Also, 2.8 billion + 1.9 billion (or whatever it is now) to Egypt is a small price to pay to keep things over there stable so that we can continue to ENJOY CHEAP OIL.  But since Obama screwed that up for us, who knows how it's going to play out?

- RE: AIPAC: Does anyone here seriously think that AIPAC's influence is anywhere close to the oil industry's influence?  The only reason we even give a flying flip about that whole part of the world is because of oil and the oil industry. 

[stone]

Coffee, I agree that Iran not selling oil for USD is probably the real reason for the sabre rattling (eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_oil_bourse )
Also
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comm ... ttack.html

“The dispute over Iran’s nuclear programme is nothing more than a convenient excuse for the US to use threats to protect the 'reserve currency’ status of the dollar,”? the newspaper, which calls itself the voice of the Islamic Revolution, said.

“Recall that Saddam [Hussein] announced Iraq would no longer accept dollars for oil purchases in November 2000 and the US-Anglo invasion occurred in March 2003,”? the Times continued. “Similarly, Iran opened its oil bourse in 2008, so it is a credit to Iranian negotiating ability that the 'crisis’ has not come to a head long before now.”?

Iran has the third-largest oil reserves in the world and pricing oil in currencies other than dollars is a provocative move aimed at Washington. If Iran switches to the non-dollar terms for its oil payments, there could be a new oil price that would be denominated in euro, yen or even the yuan or rupee.

[dualstow]

I really don't think that is going to work with terrorists who believe in being suicidal martyrs so they can get 69 72 female virgins in the afterlife.  

I always wonder if the martyrs think that this afterlife will also be paradise for those virgins.
I would think it would kind of suck to spend your whole life a virgin just to be raped by a murderer in heaven as his reward for killing innocent people.

Since they are created expressly for his pleasure, I would like to think they are Westworld type virgins.

+1 to each of Coffee's assertions.

[stone]

- RE: Aid to Israel:  More than 80% of it comes back to us in the form of military purchases.  So, our federal government is giving money so that Israel (and other countries) can make purchases from our defense contractors.  Also, 2.8 billion + 1.9 billion (or whatever it is now) to Egypt is a small price to pay to keep things over there stable so that we can continue to ENJOY CHEAP OIL.  But since Obama screwed that up for us, who knows how it's going to play out?
- RE: AIPAC: Does anyone here seriously think that AIPAC's influence is anywhere close to the oil industry's influence?  The only reason we even give a flying flip about that whole part of the world is because of oil and the oil industry. 

All of this is so as to avoid the need to employ the currently unemployed developing alternative energy.

[MediumTex]

I really don't think that is going to work with terrorists who believe in being suicidal martyrs so they can get 69 72 female virgins in the afterlife.  

I always wonder if the martyrs think that this afterlife will also be paradise for those virgins.
I would think it would kind of suck to spend your whole life a virgin just to be raped by a murderer in heaven as his reward for killing innocent people.

Since they are created expressly for his pleasure, I would like to think they are Westworld type virgins.

+1 to each of Coffee's assertions.

+1 for Westworld reference.

I'll bet a lot of those guys don't know that they are going to get robot virgins.

I'll bet they think it's going to be the real thing.

[stone]

coffee

- RE: Aid to Israel:  More than 80% of it comes back to us in the form of military purchases.  So, our federal government is giving money so that Israel (and other countries) can make purchases from our defense contractors.

The exact same argument would apply if the US government spent $2.5B per year on providing scholarships to foreign students to study at US universities alongside the debt ridden US students. All of that money would come straight back to the US economy. Do you think that would be no actual expense?

[dualstow]

Another thread hiccup? 
Last time I checked this thread, there was a question from Reub to Stone. It seems to be missing now.
Too bad, as I was interested in reading the answer.

[Reub]

I removed it because I want to be less confrontational.

[dualstow]

I removed it because I want to be less confrontational.

Ah, ok.

[stone]

I removed it because I want to be less confrontational.

Reub, I like this forum because it seems to be a meeting place for people with such different view points. Your view point is held by plenty of great people and I know that. I've never got the impression that your posts have been confrontational for confrontation's sake. IMO your posts have been clearly pointing out where you consider people's opinions are misguided - I welcome that.

[murphy_p_t]

It seems the answer to "When Will Iran Be Attacked?" is ASAP...to hear this lobbyist...under any pretext available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfoaLbb ... r_embedded

[dualstow]

It seems the answer to "When Will Iran Be Attacked?" is ASAP...to hear this lobbyist...under any pretext available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfoaLbb ... r_embedded

Patrick Clawson is misguided IMO but the comments on that page are disgusting and disgraceful.

[Coffee]

I always wonder if the martyrs think that this afterlife will also be paradise for those virgins.
I would think it would kind of suck to spend your whole life a virgin just to be raped by a murderer in heaven as his reward for killing innocent people.

Since they are created expressly for his pleasure, I would like to think they are Westworld type virgins.

+1 to each of Coffee's assertions.

+1 for Westworld reference.

I'll bet a lot of those guys don't know that they are going to get robot virgins.

I'll bet they think it's going to be the real thing.

Richard Benjamin and Yule Brynner.  Great movie.  The sequel (I think it was called "FutureWorld") ... not so much. 

[dualstow]

This image from Ha'aretz is really cracking me up right now.
(can't link to it, but it's Netanyahu's cartoon bomb photoshopped onto one of Bob Dylan's white cards from the Subterranean Homesick Blues video).
You can see it in Google News.

[MachineGhost]

As I predicted last week, the Organization of Islamic Conference has seized on the controversies regarding an anti-Islam video clip on YouTube and satirical cartoons about Mohammed in a French magazine to renew its call for a global ban on "blasphemy." The OIC is, in effect, not only announcing that Muslim states in general have no intention of allowing real freedom of conscience and speech, but they want to bully the West into eliminating those freedoms as well.

http://tinyurl.com/d2jwfc8

[dualstow]

ha! Thank you, l82start. That's it! The URL I copied was very long and seemed to go nowhere.