Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

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Pointedstick
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Re: Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

Post by Pointedstick » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:18 pm

Tech is right. We can dream all we want, but back in the real imperfect world we all live in, having the federal government take these steps is something that would actually incrementally help; it's even feasible given the political environment and the drive toward federalization and standardization; and *gasp* it's actually constitutional!
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Re: Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

Post by Kshartle » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:51 pm

Pointedstick wrote: Tech is right. We can dream all we want, but back in the real imperfect world we all live in, having the federal government take these steps is something that would actually incrementally help; it's even feasible given the political environment and the drive toward federalization and standardization; and *gasp* it's actually constitutional!
The point is when you speculate about what the government is going to do you're still dreaming. They don't care what you think. You won't affect what they do or have any influence. They're going to do whatever they were going to do regardless of what anyone here thinks, says or does.

It's all dreams anyway so I say why not dream of a real solution rather than crappy ones?

Since it's all dreams I always like to ask why people would choose bad ones?

The government is probably just as likely to stop interferring as it is to adopt anything dreamt up here....which is to say zero.

Unless someone here dreamt up Obamacare. :)
Last edited by Kshartle on Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

Post by Pointedstick » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:01 pm

Which dream seems more realistic?

"I think that the government should abolish gravity."

"I think that taxes on middle-class people should go down 1% next year."

By dismissing anything to do with government reforms as an unrealistic fantasy, you rob yourself of the ability to be part of realistic, doable, incremental change. I don't know if you're too familiar with gun laws in this country, but they've been getting better for 30 years because of the hard work and realistic, incremental goals of reformers. If 30 years ago they had said, "government is coercion! Abolish all gun laws!" gun ownership in America would be a footnote of history. Because they started small and worked their way up to big wins, today we have five states where you can carry a pistol without permission from the government and 36 where permission is very easy to attain. It may not be perfect, but the trajectory is positive because of realism, not idealism.
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Re: Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

Post by Kshartle » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:06 pm

Pointedstick wrote: Which dream seems more realistic?

"I think that the government should abolish gravity."

"I think that taxes on middle-class people should go down 1% next year."

By dismissing anything to do with government reforms as an unrealistic fantasy, you rob yourself of the ability to be part of realistic, doable, incremental change. I don't know if you're too familiar with gun laws in this country, but they've been getting better for 30 years because of the hard work and realistic, incremental goals of reformers. If 30 years ago they had said, "government is coercion! Abolish all gun laws!" gun ownership in America would be a footnote of history. Because they started small and worked their way up to big wins, today we have five states where you can carry a pistol without permission from the government and 36 where permission is very easy to attain. It may not be perfect, but the trajectory is positive because of realism, not idealism.
Point well taken.
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Re: Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

Post by Pointedstick » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:12 pm

Thanks!

That said, I basically agree with you that government doesn't care about what you want; it's going to do what it's going to do… but not always. In a gross, lumbering, inefficient manner, representative governments need to be responsive to the desires of their subjects. Politics is a team sport, but a team is made up of its members. Movements are often started by small groups of passionate, engaged, connected people, and once a movement takes off, becoming part of it can help to usher in the changes you want to see.

But you just have to be realistic and pick your battles. Gun rights in California, for example, are doomed simply because of lack of numbers. There aren't enough people to outweigh moderate anti-gun sentiment and far-left politicians. In Texas and Idaho, it's different. Context is everything.
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Re: Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

Post by Kshartle » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:27 pm

Pointedstick wrote: Thanks!

That said, I basically agree with you that government doesn't care about what you want; it's going to do what it's going to do… but not always. In a gross, lumbering, inefficient manner, representative governments need to be responsive to the desires of their subjects. Politics is a team sport, but a team is made up of its members. Movements are often started by small groups of passionate, engaged, connected people, and once a movement takes off, becoming part of it can help to usher in the changes you want to see.

But you just have to be realistic and pick your battles. Gun rights in California, for example, are doomed simply because of lack of numbers. There aren't enough people to outweigh moderate anti-gun sentiment and far-left politicians. In Texas and Idaho, it's different. Context is everything.
Yes I'm not a crusader, I don't think it's worth the effort but if everyone else wants to lobby for more freedom.....please go right ahead. If you can really get some freedom going, I might even move there. Has to be warm though.
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Re: Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

Post by Pointedstick » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:32 pm

Kshartle wrote:Has to be warm though.
I think this is the kiss of death. Weather that's too good encourages too much in-migration. Exhibit A: California. I think there's a reason that the states that tend to be more libertarian are hotter or colder than average (New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, the Dakotas, Texas, Florida, Nevada, Arizona…).
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Re: Is Obamacare setting up doodle's vision of the future?

Post by Kshartle » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:35 pm

Pointedstick wrote:
Kshartle wrote:Has to be warm though.
I think this is the kiss of death. Weather that's too good encourages too much in-migration. Exhibit A: California. I think there's a reason that the states that tend to be more libertarian are hotter or colder than average (New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, the Dakotas, Texas, Florida, Nevada, Arizona…).
I lived in Hawaii for 4 years and see what you mean.

Florida is hot and a few months are especially brutal but it can be dealt with.

I grew up in Michigan and now I'm allergic to snow. You wanna talk about colder than average......now here you have a libertarian state for 90% of the land mass but since 50% of the people are around detroit it's distorted.
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