Is there a drone in your neighbourhood?

[MachineGhost]

There are at least 63 active drone sites around the U.S, federal authorities have been forced to reveal following a landmark Freedom of Information lawsuit.

The unmanned planes – some of which may have been designed to kill terror suspects – are being launched from locations in 20 states.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-U-S.html

[MediumTex]

I would expect no less from our government.

The basic insight that people often don't fully appreciate is that any power or piece of hardware that the government possesses will be used.

[moda0306]

MT,

Given that observation what's your opinion on the following two matters:

1) Should we, as a population, try to get our government to pursue ever-more deadly & "sneaky" weaponry as a defensive tool, given your view that it eventually could & likely will be used on us?  At what point do we say to our government, "no, we don't want you attempting to engineer a nuke or whatever."

2) What should our rights as individuals be to possess weaponry with which we can defend ourselves against a tyrranical government?  This ties in with the anti-gun-control view that one of the main reasons to own weapons is to defend ourselves against our government (something German jews weren't able to do), and therefore create a natural control on government.

I tend to be torn on this.  On a general level, if our government can develop advanced military hardware in a cost-effective way, I tend to be in favor of that, but I guess I don't totally disagree that there's the risk that it will be used on us in some way.  Further, I don't want people to be able to freely purchase bazookas, much less anti-aircraft missiles or a fighter jet, as private citizens.  I tend to think inconvenience of purchase is one main reasons more crazies don't blow crap up.

So I'm completely inconsistent on all this and would like to see if there is actually a line of philosophy that I feel is consistent and reasonable.

[Pointedstick]

MT,

Given that observation what's your opinion on the following two matters:

1) Should we, as a population, try to get our government to pursue ever-more deadly & "sneaky" weaponry as a defensive tool, given your view that it eventually could & likely will be used on us?  At what point do we say to our government, "no, we don't want you attempting to engineer a nuke or whatever."

2) What should our rights as individuals be to possess weaponry with which we can defend ourselves against a tyrranical government?  This ties in with the anti-gun-control view that one of the main reasons to own weapons is to defend ourselves against our government (something German jews weren't able to do), and therefore create a natural control on government.

I tend to be torn on this.  On a general level, if our government can develop advanced military hardware in a cost-effective way, I tend to be in favor of that, but I guess I don't totally disagree that there's the risk that it will be used on us in some way.  Further, I don't want people to be able to freely purchase bazookas, much less anti-aircraft missiles or a fighter jet, as private citizens.  I tend to think inconvenience of purchase is one main reasons more crazies don't blow crap up.

So I'm completely inconsistent on all this and would like to see if there is actually a line of philosophy that I feel is consistent and reasonable.

There's a lot that can be said on this subject, but just keep in mind that the government is just made up of people. If you don't trust private citizens with advanced weapons, what makes private citizens who happen to work for an organization called "government" any more trustworthy with them? Especially seeing what these people organized as governments have done with them over the years?

[moda0306]

PS,

Can't say that I disagree... I don't know what paternalism-desiring force in me believes that the gov't with a nuke is any safer than a private citizen, other than it appears to be so based on how the government has shown a desire to NOT use them since 1945, and how crazy I believe individuals (and moreso, small echochamber groups) tend to be.

I think this is one of the more interesting philisophical questions of the day.

[MediumTex]

If you look around the world through all of history, what you find is that for every time a standing army is used to defend a nation from a foreign attack, that same standing army is normally used 99 times to keep the domestic population in line, including the populations of the colonies of the nation maintaining the standing army.

This trick of using a standing army in this way is just Tyranny 101.  The Founding Fathers addressed all of this in their writings from many different perspectives.

[craigr]

Article I Section 8:

"To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be
for a longer Term than two Years;"

[MediumTex]

Article I Section 8:

"To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be
for a longer Term than two Years;"

George Washington would not have appreciated a drone circling above his hemp crops.

[Pointedstick]

FWIW, my opinion on this used to be pretty close to moda's, but I'm far more skeptical now.

My view of the trustworthiness of people with power can be summarized in a quote from Dr. Cox in Scrubs:

"People aren't chocolates.
Do you know what they are mostly?
Bastards.
Bastard coated bastards with bastard filling."

Present company excluded, of course.

All the more reason to fear groups of them who organize a territorial monopoly of ultimate decision-making and stockpile the world's deadliest weapons! In an imperfect world, I feel like we need to do what we can to balance this out by being armed to the teeth, or at least not defenseless.

[Reub]

Now you did it!

You made me look up. 

[MachineGhost]

I think the only thing keeping us from sliding into tyranny is American values.  You know, "truth, justice and the American way", etc. that the chattering intellectual classes still holds dear.

We need both the Mommy and the Daddy to keep each other in check.  Where was Mommy during the Third Reich?  Where would Daddy be without the Anti-Defamation League afterwards?  Something just has to be done to keep those wingnut bastards and bitches down....  worldwide!  This, I believe, will be America's enduring historical legacy.  A genteel version of Rome.

But how much longer will these dying values last, I wonder?  We now have at least two or three generations consisting of the most clueless and ignorant idiots.  These Great Unwashed are so large in number, I fear that that very small minority teaching their children all the classical values is akin to plugging a finger into the hole of the dyke.

[MediumTex]

But how much longer will these dying values last, I wonder?  We now have at least two or three generations consisting of the most clueless and ignorant idiots.  These Great Unwashed are so large in number, I fear that that very small minority teaching their children all the classical values is akin to plugging a finger into the hole of the dyke.

This sentiment reminds of the lyrics from the Tool song AEnema:

Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will.
I sure could use a vacation from this

Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
Freaks

Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA
The only way to fix it is to flush it all away.
Any fucking time. Any fucking day.
Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay.

Fret for your figure and
Fret for your latte and
Fret for your lawsuit and
Fret for your hairpiece and
Fret for your prozac and
Fret for your pilot and
Fret for your contract and
Fret for your car.

It's a
Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
Freaks

Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA
The only way to fix it is to flush it all away.
Any fucking time. Any fucking day.
Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay.

Some say a comet will fall from the sky.
Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves.
Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still.
Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits.

Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will cuz
I sure could use a vacation from this

Stupid shit, Silly shit, stupid shit...

One great big festering neon distraction,
I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied.

Learn to swim.

[moda0306]

I love Tool.

Some of their songs are difficult to understand in terms of the deep meaning behind the lyrics.  Aenema is not one of them... they kind of put it right out there.

[MachineGhost]

Groups Concerned Over Arming Of Domestic Drones

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/05/ ... ic-drones/

[FarmerD]

If you look around the world through all of history, what you find is that for every time a standing army is used to defend a nation from a foreign attack, that same standing army is normally used 99 times to keep the domestic population in line, including the populations of the colonies of the nation maintaining the standing army.

This trick of using a standing army in this way is just Tyranny 101.  The Founding Fathers addressed all of this in their writings from many different perspectives.

The feds may not even need the military to impose a fascist state on us.  The use of drones is cause for alarm but honestly I am far more worried about the feds authorizing the arming of regulatory agencies.  As I pointed out in a previous thread about Rand Paul:

"I think we have too many armed federal agencies, and that we need to put an end to this," Paul said, adding that criminal law is increasingly being used as a tool by the "government bureaucracy to punish and control honest businessmen for simply attempting to make a living."

"Historically the criminal law was intended to punish only the most horrible offenses that everyone agreed were inherently wrong or evil, offenses like rape, murder, theft, arson - but now we've basically federalized thousands of activities and called them crimes," he continued. "If bureaucrats need to involve the police, let's have them use the FBI, but I see no reason to have the FDA carrying weapons."

This is creepy as hell.