BTC in the PP

[Jack Jones]

Hello

So what are the PP users and HB followers doing ?

Bitcoin on VP only ?

Or 5% on HBPP is correct ?

Kindest regards!

Frugal, I'm glad you're still out there. Would you please give us one random fact about you?

Despite being the OP of this thread, I now believe it's only appropriate for the VP.

[Smith1776]

What’re your guys’ thoughts on the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve?

I think it has a relatively low chance of passing, but if it does I’d imagine it’ll cause the BTC price to go nuts.

[boglerdude]

Bitcoin doesnt seem that different than a gold ETF.

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/che ... -privilege

In Nigeria they are still using Megacorp controlled apps. Maybe pumping bitcoin is good for US hegemony if it gets people into the apps

[dualstow]

Hello

So what are the PP users and HB followers doing ?

Bitcoin on VP only ?

Or 5% on HBPP is correct ?

Kindest regards!

Frugal, I'm glad you're still out there. Would you please give us one random fact about you?

Despite being the OP of this thread, I now believe it's only appropriate for the VP.

Seconded, and we already know you’re from Portugal (I think?), Frugal, so that detail doesn’t count.
As you know, Harry has passed, so there’s no bitcoin in the HBPP. But, if bitcoin continues to take hold I wouldn’t be surprised if guest portfolios with the stuff start showing up at Tyler’s Portfolio Charts.

Nice blast from the past seeing you!

[bitcoininthevp]

1. You (or anyone else) shouldn't be surprised because the base case of: "Bitcoin as anti-Central Bank and the US has the largest central bank so they will be arch-enemies" is pure fiction. Whether or not you have the humility to say it out loud, this is a tacit admission that "Bitcoin isn't doing the thing its supposed to." A potential Bitcoiner argument against a rational criticism such as this is "well that must be because Bitcoin is an even more amazing financial tool than I thought." It would be just another reframe among the many that have already been done.
The truth is BTC barely answers any of it's stated objectives (as outlined in the whitepaper). Instead, BTC has become an alternative asset class that is undergoing financialization. It is new and so (relatively) untainted, it is simple (enough) to acquire, and everyone has a (seemingly) fair opportunity to buy and hold it.

I dont think Bitcoin itself has really changed much at all. In fact this is something critics like to point to. Its doing the thing it was supposed to do any always doing. There are much different users of it than 5 years ago and narratives always changing but the software and protocol are basically the same.

I personally still think monetary assets other than the USD are a threat to the US central bank. We will see if the US attempts to co-opt it to behave differently at some point.

2. You keep saying soft fork as if that's a legitimate definition for something. It wasn't then, it isn't now and it won't be in the future. (I await the day BTC has a "hard fork" and the reframing begins anew)

Soft and hard forks are industry accepted terms, Bitcoin has had both. Either way, I still predict a soft fork to the protocol in the coming years.

3. The Lightning Network will never be a real solution for anything substantial.

Im predicting there will be a soft fork and that it might help lightning, but will probably help multi-party UXTO sharing protocols. Im not making a lightning prediction here, although Im still positive on its usage in the ecosystem.

4. To your point of the conversation swinging between fees being too high or too low and "how do we sustain mining?" , in either situation the answer is "it won't be sustained because usage doesn't justify costs." BTC will meet this fate regardless, it will just take a very long time...

I think there will always be someone mining the Bitcoin blockchain. I dont think there will be much change in who or how is doing that in the coming few years. Perhaps more governments mining. Long into the future, mining is more uncertain to me.

---

You've ground some axes in your reply to my predictions, but do you actually disagree with any of them? Any would you like to make of your own?

[bitcoininthevp]

Conversation probably swings from "fees too high" to "fees too low, how do we sustain mining!"

No. 99% of the time you ensure enough block space such that fees are extremely low. If someone wants to burn their precious satoshis to “spam” the network, they are welcome to. They only have so many. This is the 1% situation (spammer) where fees might rise above a trivial amount.

Mining should sustain itself by the network growing at the base layer. The more transactions, the more mining fees. Makes sense, right?

"you ensure enough block space such that fees are extremely low" here in lies the problem. WHO ensures this? What is "low" and who determines it. You come up with an algo, it gets gamed. You have some group that decides, and it becomes a political football, etc.

[Jack Jones]

Conversation probably swings from "fees too high" to "fees too low, how do we sustain mining!"

No. 99% of the time you ensure enough block space such that fees are extremely low. If someone wants to burn their precious satoshis to “spam” the network, they are welcome to. They only have so many. This is the 1% situation (spammer) where fees might rise above a trivial amount.

Mining should sustain itself by the network growing at the base layer. The more transactions, the more mining fees. Makes sense, right?

"you ensure enough block space such that fees are extremely low" here in lies the problem. WHO ensures this? What is "low" and who determines it. You come up with an algo, it gets gamed. You have some group that decides, and it becomes a political football, etc.

Let's dig into this game the algorithm angle. Okay, so we have an adaptive blocksize limit in place. Who is gaming the algorithm, what is their aim, and what does it cost them?

[bitcoininthevp]

Let's dig into this game the algorithm angle. Okay, so we have an adaptive blocksize limit in place. Who is gaming the algorithm, what is their aim, and what does it cost them?

Im a miner, I flood the blockspace to drive up the blocksize which at some point drops a bunch of full nodes off the network which is bad for decentralization. If I keep doing this blocks are at the size where only the largest miner can mine due to latency of block propagation of larger blocks.

But dont take my word for it, look at a blockchain nearly identical to bitcoin but with giant sized blocks and see what happened. BSV did basically this and has either one or just a couple mining entities on its network. A couple letters from 3-letter agencies and the chain is dead.

[Jack Jones]

Let's dig into this game the algorithm angle. Okay, so we have an adaptive blocksize limit in place. Who is gaming the algorithm, what is their aim, and what does it cost them?

Im a miner, I flood the blockspace to drive up the blocksize which at some point drops a bunch of full nodes off the network which is bad for decentralization. If I keep doing this blocks are at the size where only the largest miner can mine due to latency of block propagation of larger blocks.

But dont take my word for it, look at a blockchain nearly identical to bitcoin but with giant sized blocks and see what happened. BSV did basically this and has either one or just a couple mining entities on its network. A couple letters from 3-letter agencies and the chain is dead.

This is like saying a mining pool could make a 51% attack on the network. Okay sure, but why would they do something to hurt the prospects of the network they have so much equipment invested in? For so little gain. In fact, at great cost because of fees.

The whole full nodes / decentralization thing is a red herring. Mining nodes are responsible for the decentralization of the network. We kept the blocksize capped, neutering the growth of the network...so Bitcoin Maximalists could run their full nodes? Here's proof that it's a bogus argument, let's see how this decentralization argument played out seven years later:

Smithy, you have most of your net worth in Bitcoin, right? Are you running a full node? Are your Bitcoin holdings in your control, or centralized at a custodian?

BitcoinintheVP:

In your vision of Bitcoin, do fees continue to rise as Bitcoin becomes more successful?

[Jack Jones]

Here's an interesting chart of Bitcoin Maximalism:



Cryptocurrency enthusiasts were rallied around Bitcoin until 2017. At that point, the developers refused to scale it, and many folks jumped ship.

[Smith1776]

Here's an interesting chart of Bitcoin Maximalism:



Cryptocurrency enthusiasts were rallied around Bitcoin until 2017. At that point, the developers refused to scale it, and many folks jumped ship.

What does the chart show? Is that share of total crypto market capitalization?

[Smith1776]

Smithy, you have most of your net worth in Bitcoin, right? Are you running a full node? Are your Bitcoin holdings in your control, or centralized at a custodian?

I have 1 bitcoin that I hold in cold storage. All my other bitcoin and bitcoin equity is held in my brokerage account via ETFs and MicroStrategy stock.

I was running a node at one point, but that PC has since been relegated to being a hand-me-down to a family member.

[Smith1776]

Here is a compilation of some of my favourite videos on Bitcoin. If anyone here is open to the idea of opening up a bit more of their portfolio dollars to Bitcoin, these are a great place to start. Maybe listen to them while you're driving?


Bitcoin, The Red Wave, and The Crypto Renaissance - Michael Saylor Speaks at Cantor Fitzgerald.


Michael Saylor — 21 Rules of Bitcoin (BTC Prague 2024 Keynote)


Michael Saylor FULL INTERVIEW with Tucker Carlson (Nov 29, 2021)


MicroStrategy Makes HISTORIC Bitcoin Announcement: Q3 2024 Earnings Call


Saifedean Ammous: Bitcoin, Anarchy, and Austrian Economics | Lex Fridman Podcast #284


Bitcoin vs Gold: The Great Debate with Michael Saylor and Frank Giustra

[bitcoininthevp]

Let's dig into this game the algorithm angle. Okay, so we have an adaptive blocksize limit in place. Who is gaming the algorithm, what is their aim, and what does it cost them?

Im a miner, I flood the blockspace to drive up the blocksize which at some point drops a bunch of full nodes off the network which is bad for decentralization. If I keep doing this blocks are at the size where only the largest miner can mine due to latency of block propagation of larger blocks.

But dont take my word for it, look at a blockchain nearly identical to bitcoin but with giant sized blocks and see what happened. BSV did basically this and has either one or just a couple mining entities on its network. A couple letters from 3-letter agencies and the chain is dead.

This is like saying a mining pool could make a 51% attack on the network. Okay sure, but why would they do something to hurt the prospects of the network they have so much equipment invested in? For so little gain. In fact, at great cost because of fees.

The attack would look like normal activity and wouldnt involve any censorship. But it would have the affect of pricing out other miners/nodes on the network. It wouldnt be for "little gain" as dethroning your competition in a cutthroat industry is a huge gain.

let's see how this decentralization argument played out seven years later:

Smithy, you have most of your net worth in Bitcoin, right? Are you running a full node? Are your Bitcoin holdings in your control, or centralized at a custodian?

You could use one example in a forum post, or we can look at how many BSV (large block) nodes there are and how many BTC (small block) nodes there are.

BitcoinintheVP:

In your vision of Bitcoin, do fees continue to rise as Bitcoin becomes more successful?

I'd like to see transaction fees be a more substantial part of the block reward, but think the pendulum will swing back and forth on fees over time. For example the in the past 2 years we have seen higher relative fees, but if the new offchain scaling ideas Ive hypothesized come to fruition widely, we will likely see a relative drop in transaction fees. How the network behaves as the block subsidy drops is still something Im not sure how will play out. But Im not a doomer on this front either.

[Smith1776]

Don't mean to sound like a broken record, but I really recommend those Michael Saylor podcasts/interviews/speeches.

He's the best statesman for Bitcoin in the whole world IMO.

[yankees60]

Don't mean to sound like a broken record, but I really recommend those Michael Saylor podcasts/interviews/speeches.

He's the best statesman for Bitcoin in the whole world IMO.

"Don't mean to sound like a broken record"

When will that cliche ever be updated / replaced?

When is the last time any of you have held a record? And, some of you (Smith1776?) may have never ever owned one?

[boglerdude]

And Bogle was the anti-salesman...

[dualstow]

I often don’t know exactly what’s going on in a boglerdude post, but I can almost always pick them out without looking at your profile.

[dualstow]

Michael Saylor will be a guest on Fox Business today, 2:00PM EST, Charles Payne’s show.

[Smith1776]

Michael Saylor will be a guest on Fox Business today, 2:00PM EST, Charles Payne’s show.

Thanks! I watch every show or interview he does religiously now lol.

[dualstow]

This was the first time I ever heard his voice.

[Smith1776]

This was the first time I ever heard his voice.

Gasp! Blasphemy!

[Smith1776]

$100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!! $100K!!!!!!

BTC100K.png (53.11 KiB) Viewed 120 times

[dualstow]

Congrats, man

[Smith1776]

Back to 99k. Party’s over!