On Civility

Kbg
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On Civility

Post by Kbg » Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:55 pm

I'm posting this here because it will probably actually be seen by most of the board's current members.

The board active membership has been trashed and I think we all know why.

There are new folks popping up from time to time and it would be nice to retain them.

I suggest everyone dial down their butt head online tendencies, read your post before submitting and if you go overboard apologize and resolve to do and be better.

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Re: On Civility

Post by Smith1776 » Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:22 pm

As someone who actively avoids anything to do with politics on this forum I can only imagine what must be going on here.
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Hal
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Re: On Civility

Post by Hal » Thu Jul 21, 2022 4:44 am

Kbg wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:55 pm
Love Mom
:D :D
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Re: On Civility

Post by Jack Jones » Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:40 am

I’ve been curious about the principles of moderation for this forum. For example, under what circumstances do the moderators take action?

Regarding lost soldiers, anyone know what happened to vincent_c? Seems like he left and deleted all his posts. I’m curious if anyone knows why. I occasionally catch his replies when other people have quoted him, and I wish he was still around.
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Re: On Civility

Post by vnatale » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:11 am

Jack Jones wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:40 am

I’ve been curious about the principles of moderation for this forum. For example, under what circumstances do the moderators take action?

Regarding lost soldiers, anyone know what happened to vincent_c? Seems like he left and deleted all his posts. I’m curious if anyone knows why. I occasionally catch his replies when other people have quoted him, and I wish he was still around.


I do remember reading his reasons for leaving but not recalling them at all right now.
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Xan
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Re: On Civility

Post by Xan » Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:50 am

Jack Jones wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:40 am
I’ve been curious about the principles of moderation for this forum. For example, under what circumstances do the moderators take action?

Regarding lost soldiers, anyone know what happened to vincent_c? Seems like he left and deleted all his posts. I’m curious if anyone knows why. I occasionally catch his replies when other people have quoted him, and I wish he was still around.
Basically we're trying to do the best thing for the board overall at any given time, with the overall philosophy that the less we do, the better.

I'm afraid vincent_c's request for deletion was deleted, so I can't tell you just what happened to him. It was certainly voluntary.
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Re: On Civility

Post by Jack Jones » Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:43 am

Xan wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:50 am
Jack Jones wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:40 am
I’ve been curious about the principles of moderation for this forum. For example, under what circumstances do the moderators take action?

Regarding lost soldiers, anyone know what happened to vincent_c? Seems like he left and deleted all his posts. I’m curious if anyone knows why. I occasionally catch his replies when other people have quoted him, and I wish he was still around.
Basically we're trying to do the best thing for the board overall at any given time, with the overall philosophy that the less we do, the better.

I'm afraid vincent_c's request for deletion was deleted, so I can't tell you just what happened to him. It was certainly voluntary.
Thanks xan.
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Re: On Civility

Post by Kbg » Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:54 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:28 am
Kbg wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:55 pm


The board active membership has been trashed and I think we all know why.

Why don't you spell it out? I'm pretty sure the people who stopped posting have a different take on things than you do.
Well...let's find out Pug.

Zan can you give us some board stats? Numbers are numbers. We are down in active participants or we are not.

And Pug, if they are down, then would you please spell it out for us? My theory is large doses of people being overly full of themselves and extremely rude. Got no actual proof though other than a couple of anecdotes via private email.
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Re: On Civility

Post by I Shrugged » Thu Jul 21, 2022 6:59 pm

The PP focus has kind of been subsumed as the forum has evolved.
Politics has gotten ugly everywhere.
Some people left because of the annoying signal/noise ratio of others. Most of whom are also gone.

We probably can't put Humpty together again. But yes, we can be civil.

I'm not seeing much incivility lately, myself.
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Re: On Civility

Post by vnatale » Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:22 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 6:59 pm

The PP focus has kind of been subsumed as the forum has evolved.
Politics has gotten ugly everywhere.
Some people left because of the annoying signal/noise ratio of others. Most of whom are also gone.

We probably can't put Humpty together again. But yes, we can be civil.

I'm not seeing much incivility lately, myself.


I second that sentiment in that I'm seeing it at a low level compared to what it had been at other times.
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Re: On Civility

Post by Mark Leavy » Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:51 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:22 pm

I see. So "WE all know why", based on YOUR not proof but anecdotes.

No one is disputing the number of active posters is down. It's tough to have an intelligent conversation around here lately.

And Xan is not spelled with a Z.
I believe that Xan is pronounced similar to the first mate on the Bounty. Mr. Xan, sir?

I appreciate the posts, pug. You bring a bit of sense to the forum (along with a few others). It really has transformed from logic and reason to ... something else.

I think one of the reasons that Tom Foolery (and others) got banned is that they were hitting too close to the truth. (But in a brutal and tactless manner). We surely don't want brutal and tactless. Well, I do. But that is just me. I need more of that to post here. Not less..

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Re: On Civility

Post by Xan » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:05 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:51 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:22 pm

I see. So "WE all know why", based on YOUR not proof but anecdotes.

No one is disputing the number of active posters is down. It's tough to have an intelligent conversation around here lately.

And Xan is not spelled with a Z.
I believe that Xan is pronounced similar to the first mate on the Bounty. Mr. Xan, sir?

I appreciate the posts, pug. You bring a bit of sense to the forum (along with a few others). It really has transformed from logic and reason to ... something else.

I think one of the reasons that Tom Foolery (and others) got banned is that they were hitting too close to the truth. (But in a brutal and tactless manner). We surely don't want brutal and tactless. Well, I do. But that is just me. I need more of that to post here. Not less..

How do you write women so well?
Fletcher Christian? Actually no, it is pronounced "Zan". Hadn't thought of that other interpretation, but I like it!
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Re: On Civility

Post by Xan » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:16 pm

Number of users with at least 50 posts (chosen arbitrarily), by calendar year, starting the first full year of the forum. Exception: for 2022 I used cutoff 25 posts, since we're ~1/2 through. There have been a few folks who have left and deleted all their posts, so they will be absent from these numbers.

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Mark Leavy
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Re: On Civility

Post by Mark Leavy » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:28 pm

Xan wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:16 pm
Number of users with at least 50 posts (chosen arbitrarily), by calendar year, starting the first full year of the forum.
...
You run a great forum Mr. Zan. And a lot of it is due to the carefully weighted hand that you yield. Much respect.
But... by any measure the quality of the regular posts have dropped from : Seriously intelligent and uncompromising to quislings whining about the current thing
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Re: On Civility

Post by Mark Leavy » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:35 pm

And KBG I reject your premise that civility is a good thing.

Whenever I read civility I translate it to civility bullshit. Any mention of civility is invariably a ruse to manipulate the unwashed into following a different agenda. A civil agenda. Purveyors of civility are bullshit artists.
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Re: On Civility

Post by Jack Jones » Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:48 am

Mark Leavy wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:35 pm
And KBG I reject your premise that civility is a good thing.

Whenever I read civility I translate it to civility bullshit. Any mention of civility is invariably a ruse to manipulate the unwashed into following a different agenda. A civil agenda. Purveyors of civility are bullshit artists.
How about insulting others? E.g. You are a piece of shit.

That is an unacceptable loss of civility in my opinion.

However, I’m totally game for discussing whether an idea is shit.
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Re: On Civility

Post by seajay » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:19 pm

Jack Jones wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:40 am
I’ve been curious about the principles of moderation for this forum. For example, under what circumstances do the moderators take action?

Regarding lost soldiers, anyone know what happened to vincent_c? Seems like he left and deleted all his posts. I’m curious if anyone knows why. I occasionally catch his replies when other people have quoted him, and I wish he was still around.
IIRC was due to bitcoin discussions/ads/logos
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Re: On Civility

Post by Jack Jones » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:50 pm

seajay wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:19 pm
Jack Jones wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:40 am
I’ve been curious about the principles of moderation for this forum. For example, under what circumstances do the moderators take action?

Regarding lost soldiers, anyone know what happened to vincent_c? Seems like he left and deleted all his posts. I’m curious if anyone knows why. I occasionally catch his replies when other people have quoted him, and I wish he was still around.
IIRC was due to bitcoin discussions/ads/logos
This post indicates otherwise:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12334&p=235901&hili ... _c#p234635

Vincent_c was amicably participating in a Bitcoin thread. The previous post even featured the dreaded ad/logo!

Perhaps we were projecting a bit?
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Re: On Civility

Post by I Shrugged » Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:02 pm

I recall that he wanted high IQ discussions of particular investment interests, and seemed frustrated by the lack of suitable/inclined participants.
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Re: On Civility

Post by joypog » Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:37 pm

Tangentially related, here is an opinion piece by Russell Moore critiquing keyboard warriors and revolutionary LARPers.

Trigger warning: Russell Moore is a Christian. >:D
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Re: On Civility

Post by vnatale » Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:35 pm

Xan wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:16 pm

Number of users with at least 50 posts (chosen arbitrarily), by calendar year, starting the first full year of the forum. Exception: for 2022 I used cutoff 25 posts, since we're ~1/2 through. There have been a few folks who have left and deleted all their posts, so they will be absent from these numbers.














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In graphical form

Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (25.64 KiB) Viewed 2485 times
:

Several observations can be made:

1) Decided downward trend line
2) Current year less than prior two years.
3) But current year equal or greater than the three prior years to those two years.

What are the interpretations that can be made from these simple observations?
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: On Civility

Post by vnatale » Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:36 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:02 pm

I recall that he wanted high IQ discussions of particular investment interests, and seemed frustrated by the lack of suitable/inclined participants.


Now that you state in this way ... I seem to remember that being the case.
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Re: On Civility

Post by Mark Leavy » Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:03 pm

Jack Jones wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:48 am
How about insulting others? E.g. You are a piece of shit.

That is an unacceptable loss of civility in my opinion.

However, I’m totally game for discussing whether an idea is shit.
Weak tea, Jack Jones. Weak tea!

You are a piece of shit is an excellent post! Highly informative. It lets you know that the ad hominem[er] is a mental midget and a prime target for mocking. Nothing raises the average IQ of a forum like a well done vivisection of a mediocre mind. And You are a piece of shit is just the catalyst to raise the conversation.

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Re: On Civility

Post by Kbg » Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:31 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:35 pm
And KBG I reject your premise that civility is a good thing.

Whenever I read civility I translate it to civility bullshit. Any mention of civility is invariably a ruse to manipulate the unwashed into following a different agenda. A civil agenda. Purveyors of civility are bullshit artists.
Duly noted.

I find people who can't be civil in their discourse by and large are weak minded, mostly incapable of learning and unable to defend an argument very well when they get pressed hard.

I have a serious problem with people who are unable to change their minds when presented clear evidence contrary to their viewpoints. You can see metaphorically their brains explode and then they react emotionally. Facts you do not like are not manipulation.

I've rarely met anyone in real life who is A) both deeply intelligent and B) unable to drive home a point civilly. I have met a ton of morons who demonstrate the opposite frequently.

One of my favorite investing boards has a basic rule that is enforced...beat someone's idea mercilessly, attack the person and you're off the board. It's been a high quality board since 1997.

I reject your rejection.
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Re: On Civility

Post by Mark Leavy » Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:45 pm

Kbg wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:31 pm
I reject your rejection.
Duly noted. Fair enough.
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