Putin Invades Ukraine II

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dualstow
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Re: Putin Invades Ukraine II

Post by dualstow » Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:35 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:43 pm

It's pretty obvious Putin thought Ukraine would be easy. I think that was the overriding factor, but the NATO/EU expansion factor surely weighed heavily in the decision to invade.
Have you seen Putin’s own speeches about how he’s Peter the Great?
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Re: Putin Invades Ukraine II

Post by I Shrugged » Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:46 pm

dualstow wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:35 pm
I Shrugged wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:43 pm

It's pretty obvious Putin thought Ukraine would be easy. I think that was the overriding factor, but the NATO/EU expansion factor surely weighed heavily in the decision to invade.
Have you seen Putin’s own speeches about how he’s Peter the Great?
I saw something about that. Again with the media the way it is, I didn't give it a whole lot of weight. I mean, it's probably true. Maybe.
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Re: Putin Invades Ukraine II

Post by Kbg » Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:24 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:07 am
Here's a very good article on the Ron Paul Institute website explaining all the things the US got wrong about Ukraine:

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/fe ... t-ukraine/


We're being led by a bunch of fools, but it's been that way going back many administrations. I checked the ruble to dollar exchange rate yesterday. It's up about 50% from before the Ukraine invasion started. So much for Biden's promise that his sanctions would crater their economy. If his misinformation board had survived, hopefully they would have flagged that statement of his as misinformation.

My sympathies are with Russia on this one. Putin is a strong leader who puts his country first and doesn't care what the globalists say. I had a taxi ride the other day with a Russian speaking Armenian. I asked him what he thought about the Ukraine thing. He told me not to believe anything that the US media says about it (I didn't need to be told that, but he couldn't have known that). He said that Putin is widely popular in Russia because he protected Russia and helped the people, including putting checks on the oligarchs, when the country was being taken over and raped by foreign interests after the Soviet Union fell. If only we had such a strong leader we wouldn't be the laughingstock of the world like we are today. Our oligarchs have our politicians under their control. Trump said he would be a strong leader, but of course he failed miserably in most respects, although there were a few bright spots in what he did.

I'm sure if the shoe was on the other foot and Canada or Mexico were threatening to become strong allies of our worst enemy, our military wouldn't bat an eyelash about going in and destroying the place. But if we did that the civilian carnage would be probably ten times worse than what Putin has done to Ukraine. We would have just carpet bombed Toronto and Montreal (shock and awe, you know), rather than surrounding the cities like Putin did and letting them slowly fall without a huge amount of civilian casualties.
You should move then, good for us, good for you. You seem to share a lot of the same views as Fuller.

As for the man himself...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_E._Fuller

Love the Canada/Mexico analogy...wonder why neither of their militaries guard their boarder with the US? That's probably a more relevant question than your hypothetical scenario.

I've been involved in a lot of bombings over the years...in fact I played a not insignificant role in shock and awe. How about a small factually based truth check (assuming you can handle the truth...great line Jack and Tom). Find 50 pictures of Baghdad...the absolute worst you can find that aren't all of the same thing and I'll pick my 50 from Ukraine and/or Chechnya and let's compare notes. Bombs blow things up, cause devastation and kill people (cuz you know, that's what they're supposed to do). But unlike the Russians, the US military fires 99.9% of its shots at military targets and we actually aim which is super helpful in minimizing innocents being killed.

Now if you are looking to put up a good anti-American counter argument to my challenge, I'd bring up World War 2. Bring up the bombing of German and Japanese cities and the use of Atomic bombs on Japan. Throw in some white racism specifically with regards to how the US bombed Japan. At least you would have a decent argument (though not a great one when one places the actions in the period they happened).

And yes, we need a strong leader...like Putin. He's a democratic leader to be emulated.

P.S. Read some Russian history. I'd suggest starting with Catherine or Peter the Great and walking it all the way forward to today. If you like strong leaders you'll find Putin's got nothing on Peter the Great or Stalin. He's a wannabe great Russian leader at best. Now here's something crazy as you read all of that history ask yourself why ARE the Russians and Ukrainians actually fighting? NATO encroachment, really?

Speaking of evil, can we count "evilness" by the number of innocent dead caused/killed by a leader and/or country? If we can, do the math since 1776 between the US and Russia.

P.S.S. You're going to need a calculator that handles very large numbers for the latter.

I love to try and summarize and here's my summary: If we were anything like Russia we would have several more existing states (beyond Mexican California) with boarders probably going from the Arctic to the Panama Canal...and yet we don't.
Last edited by Kbg on Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Putin Invades Ukraine II

Post by Kbg » Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:31 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:46 pm
dualstow wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:35 pm
I Shrugged wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:43 pm

It's pretty obvious Putin thought Ukraine would be easy. I think that was the overriding factor, but the NATO/EU expansion factor surely weighed heavily in the decision to invade.
Have you seen Putin’s own speeches about how he’s Peter the Great?
I saw something about that. Again with the media the way it is, I didn't give it a whole lot of weight. I mean, it's probably true. Maybe.
I think this one is easy...what was he using to the Russian people to justify the invasion? Ukraine was filled with Nazi's and "real Russians" were being persecuted. "NATO encroachment" may have been the strategic reason....but why did he care about that? Peel it back folks. Also do the Munger question invert...why did the vast majority of eastern and central European countries WANT to join NATO. (Hint: Communist Russian rule sucked...zero interest in a do over.)
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Re: Putin Invades Ukraine II

Post by vnatale » Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:38 pm

Where the Shelling Never Stops: Near the ‘Zero Line’ With Ukrainian Soldiers Trying to Maintain in Donbas

Inside life in a bunker with Ukrainian Ph.D. students-turned-fighters as they attempt to hold on against overwhelming firepower and devastating Russian bombardment

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... 2-1368541/
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Putin Invades Ukraine II

Post by dualstow » Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:21 am

I Shrugged wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:46 pm
dualstow wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:35 pm
I Shrugged wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:43 pm

It's pretty obvious Putin thought Ukraine would be easy. I think that was the overriding factor, but the NATO/EU expansion factor surely weighed heavily in the decision to invade.
Have you seen Putin’s own speeches about how he’s Peter the Great?
I saw something about that. Again with the media the way it is, I didn't give it a whole lot of weight. I mean, it's probably true. Maybe.
I don’t understand. I mentioned his own speeches precisely because it’s not the media. “The media the way it is” — it would take a quite a conspiracy, quite a lot of networks to collude with regard to translation. Maybe you meant something else. I suppose there could be an Ahmedinejad “wipe off the map” problem until it’s corrected.
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Re: Putin Invades Ukraine II

Post by I Shrugged » Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:24 am

dualstow wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:21 am
I Shrugged wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:46 pm
dualstow wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:35 pm
I Shrugged wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:43 pm

It's pretty obvious Putin thought Ukraine would be easy. I think that was the overriding factor, but the NATO/EU expansion factor surely weighed heavily in the decision to invade.
Have you seen Putin’s own speeches about how he’s Peter the Great?
I saw something about that. Again with the media the way it is, I didn't give it a whole lot of weight. I mean, it's probably true. Maybe.
I don’t understand. I mentioned his own speeches precisely because it’s not the media. “The media the way it is” — it would take a quite a conspiracy, quite a lot of networks to collude with regard to translation. Maybe you meant something else. I suppose there could be an Ahmedinejad “wipe off the map” problem until it’s corrected.
Then I have to say, no, I haven’t seen his speeches. Sorry about that.
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Re: Putin Invades Ukraine II

Post by dualstow » Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:26 am

He has basically romanticized himself as the new Peter the Great.
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Re: Putin Invades Ukraine II

Post by I Shrugged » Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:22 pm

dualstow wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:26 am
He has basically romanticized himself as the new Peter the Great.
Maybe it’s just salesmanship? Or yes, he could be delusional.
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Re: Putin Invades Ukraine II

Post by dualstow » Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:37 pm

Salesmanship. O0 I like that.
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Re: Putin Invades Ukraine II

Post by dualstow » Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:51 pm

Putin Threatens To Deploy New Satan II Nuclear Missile That Can Reach UK In 3 Minutes
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pu ... li=BBnbfcL
shit got real
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Re: Putin Invades Ukraine II

Post by I Shrugged » Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:16 pm

dualstow wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:51 pm
Putin Threatens To Deploy New Satan II Nuclear Missile That Can Reach UK In 3 Minutes
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pu ... li=BBnbfcL
shit got real
The average person will read that headline as, “Putin threatens to launch nuclear missiles at UK.”
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Re: Putin Invades Ukraine II

Post by dualstow » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:56 am

I Shrugged wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:16 pm
dualstow wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:51 pm
Putin Threatens To Deploy New Satan II Nuclear Missile That Can Reach UK In 3 Minutes
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pu ... li=BBnbfcL
shit got real
The average person will read that headline as, “Putin threatens to launch nuclear missiles at UK.”
That threat, however unlikely, is always there. Ever since he warned about other countries interfering.
let 2022 be the year of GOLD
Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade. You heard it here third, or fourth
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Re: Putin Invades Ukraine II

Post by Xan » Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:48 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:16 pm
dualstow wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:51 pm
Putin Threatens To Deploy New Satan II Nuclear Missile That Can Reach UK In 3 Minutes
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pu ... li=BBnbfcL
shit got real
The average person will read that headline as, “Putin threatens to launch nuclear missiles at UK.”
Here's something fairly close:
https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/cl ... 95aaf79553

A member of the Russian parliament's defense committee and political ally of Putin said that the Russians must invade the Baltic states in order to protect Kaliningrad, and assuming that triggers NATO's Rule 5, he would then bomb London.
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Re: Putin Invades Ukraine II

Post by Kbg » Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:40 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:16 pm
dualstow wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:51 pm
Putin Threatens To Deploy New Satan II Nuclear Missile That Can Reach UK In 3 Minutes
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pu ... li=BBnbfcL
shit got real
The average person will read that headline as, “Putin threatens to launch nuclear missiles at UK.”
All your really need to know about targeting Russia with nuclear weapons...3-5 cities and Russia becomes predominately Asiatic in orientation again.

The RUS know that, as does China.

As Mao once said, bring it. China will walk in and takeover all of Russia with our remnants afterward. (paraphrasing of course)
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