Putin Invades Ukraine II

[Kbg]

The Russians have taken control of the Azovstal steel plant (Mariupol)

What is the significance of the steel plant?

Physically, it was the last hold out that enabled interdiction of a land bridge to Crimea

Metaphorically, it turned into the Ukrainian version of the Alamo or if you're into ancient history the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae

[ppnewbie]

The Russians have taken control of the Azovstal steel plant (Mariupol)

What is the significance of the steel plant?

Physically, it was the last hold out that enabled interdiction of a land bridge to Crimea

Metaphorically, it turned into the Ukrainian version of the Alamo or if you're into ancient history the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae

Thanks!

[dualstow]

I actually feel sorry for the Russian kid on trial.

[dualstow]

Russia’s Cyber Warriors: also not hot shit?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/russia ... -1.6455055

[Kbg]

I actually feel sorry for the Russian kid on trial.

I get where the Ukrainians are coming from, but I think it was a stupid move at this point in time.

There's a good reason why war crimes trials are normally held AFTER the winner is determined...to wit, not setting your own soldiers up for the same.

The Russians are already heading down that road.

[dualstow]

Of course. They will try some Ukrainians.

[vnatale]

'I watched from afar Russia’s latest merciless assault on Severodonetsk'
By Quentin Sommerville
BBC News, Lysychansk, Ukraine

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61634050

[dualstow]

"Hero of Ukraine" - 15 yr-old boy with drone spots Russian convoy, Ukrainian military destroys it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... ving-kyiv/

[Mountaineer]

"Hero of Ukraine" - 15 yr-old boy with drone spots Russian convoy, Ukrainian military destroys it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... ving-kyiv/

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Interesting. I wonder if this will trigger the power control (aka gun control) Biden and crew to add drones to the “terrible inanimate objects that are the scourge of civilization” list?

.

[dualstow]

"Hero of Ukraine" - 15 yr-old boy with drone spots Russian convoy, Ukrainian military destroys it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... ving-kyiv/

.

Interesting. I wonder if this will trigger the power control (aka gun control) Biden and crew to add drones to the “terrible inanimate objects that are the scourge of civilization” list?

.

Craigr wrote something interesting about how someone could easily program a fleet of cheap drones to attack people all at once, with deadly consequences. That would have to happen first.

[dualstow]

Cases of desertion are growing among Ukrainian forces suffering significant losses in Russia's artillery onslaught, report says

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/ca ... ar-AAYlzFS
boo

[dualstow]

Putin has now made it crystal clear. His invasion of Ukraine was never about NATO expansion,
and always about Russian expansion.

https://twitter.com/McFaul/status/1535656144156299265

[Kbg]

I think I've arrived at the view the Biden crew is uniquely poor at anything having to do with military operations. I've no idea if the military guys are providing poor advice or getting cancelled out by the State Dept/civilian side of things. At this point for the US, you should be all in at least for weapons including those that could strike Russia to a degree and defend the air better...or you should have let Ukraine get steamrolled by the Russians. I sorta defended the Afghanistan pullout, but this situation I do not get.

A pretty good reversal of this situation was the Vietnam war...and Russia/China had no problems providing the Vietnamese with everything they wanted in terms of conventional arms...for the time, they provided the best fighters, SAMs and tanks/artillery available to their forces to the Vietnamese.

A slow bleed out of Ukraine with an eventual loss is beyond bad at this point on multiple levels.

[dualstow]

Trains are the Russian military’s go-to method for moving troops and heavy weapons. In Ukraine’s industrialized Donbas region, dense rail networks have played to Moscow’s advantage.

Russia’s military depends so heavily on trains that it maintains an elite Railroad Force, a service branch once common in countries through World War II. The unit has camouflage-painted armored train cars equipped with antiaircraft cannons and artillery to guard supply trains, and its troops are trained to repair bombed tracks while under enemy fire. Russia’s Defense Ministry said it has restored 750 miles of track in the land corridor it now controls in Ukraine’s southeast.

(paywalled) https://on.wsj.com/3xLQRCh

[dualstow]

“I informed President Zelenskiy that the United States is providing another $1 billion in security assistance for Ukraine, including additional artillery and coastal defense weapons, as well as ammunition for the artillery and advanced rocket systems that the Ukrainians need to support their defensive operations in the Donbas,” Biden said in a statement Wednesday.

The weapons package includes for the first time launchers for vehicle-mounted Harpoon anti-ship missiles, according to people familiar with the matter. Denmark has said it will supply the missiles. The US package also includes $320 million for secure radios and related equipment, $55 million for thermal night-vision optics and $160 million for training, according to one of the people.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... or-ukraine

[Kbg]

Sounds good…context, the US was going through a billion a day in Iraq and things are way more intense in Ukraine.

Humans learn fast or die in wars….Russia has learned and is playing to their strengths now. As I’ve mentioned there is a simple tell…watch the map. Right now the map says Russia is slowly grinding away Ukraine and its armed forces. We have got to give Ukraine an equalizer to Russian artillery batteries.

War 101…just do not do it unless you are seriously in to win.

[dualstow]

Putin is willing to throw endless Russian lives at this, not to mention all the Ukrainian ones.
All these lives uprooted or snuffed out so he can slightly expand the empire.

[Desert]

Putin is willing to throw endless Russian lives at this, not to mention all the Ukrainian ones.
All these lives uprooted or snuffed out so he can slightly expand the empire.

He is indeed a monster.

[boglerdude]

1654465187178.png (247.06 KiB) Viewed 323 times

[dualstow]

More of an update on old news but

Farmers say that without proper storage their grains and seeds will go to waste at the same time Russia’s invasion of Ukraine threatens exports from both countries, sending global prices higher.

Ukraine says the European Union has offered to store its grain, and the U.S. has offered to build silos on the Polish border. The United Nations is negotiating with Russia and Kyiv to open up Black Sea routes again. None of these plans offer short-term answers for farmers looking for storage space in the next few months.

It’s not enough to mess things up for Ukrainians and Russians. He’s got to hinder the world’s breadbasket.

[Kbg]

This one isn't even hard...naval convoy.

Is there risk, yes. Do I think the Russians would blink, also yes.

If I'm wrong and the headlines are correct about the third world starving...well maybe we shouldn't let the world go hungry and throw some punches back if a convoy was attacked.

The optics here are horrendously bad for Russia...and while I doubt they care one iota about people starving, they do care about losing what little support they have internationally.

[stuper1]

Here's a very good article on the Ron Paul Institute website explaining all the things the US got wrong about Ukraine:

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/fe ... t-ukraine/


We're being led by a bunch of fools, but it's been that way going back many administrations. I checked the ruble to dollar exchange rate yesterday. It's up about 50% from before the Ukraine invasion started. So much for Biden's promise that his sanctions would crater their economy. If his misinformation board had survived, hopefully they would have flagged that statement of his as misinformation.

My sympathies are with Russia on this one. Putin is a strong leader who puts his country first and doesn't care what the globalists say. I had a taxi ride the other day with a Russian speaking Armenian. I asked him what he thought about the Ukraine thing. He told me not to believe anything that the US media says about it (I didn't need to be told that, but he couldn't have known that). He said that Putin is widely popular in Russia because he protected Russia and helped the people, including putting checks on the oligarchs, when the country was being taken over and raped by foreign interests after the Soviet Union fell. If only we had such a strong leader we wouldn't be the laughingstock of the world like we are today. Our oligarchs have our politicians under their control. Trump said he would be a strong leader, but of course he failed miserably in most respects, although there were a few bright spots in what he did.

I'm sure if the shoe was on the other foot and Canada or Mexico were threatening to become strong allies of our worst enemy, our military wouldn't bat an eyelash about going in and destroying the place. But if we did that the civilian carnage would be probably ten times worse than what Putin has done to Ukraine. We would have just carpet bombed Toronto and Montreal (shock and awe, you know), rather than surrounding the cities like Putin did and letting them slowly fall without a huge amount of civilian casualties.

[boglerdude]

> Putin is a strong leader who puts his country first

Uh oh. As part of the incoming fusillade, ill chip in that term limits are needed for any politician. Benevolent dictatorship is impossible, even Lee Kuan Yew gifted inordinate power to his son. Everyone puts family ahead of plebs.

[dualstow]

You met a cab driver with an opinion. I don’t know if I or anyone else could possibly top that.

[I Shrugged]

Peace is never an option, it seems. NATO had to keep existing and expanding, because (it's always something).
It's pretty obvious Putin thought Ukraine would be easy. I think that was the overriding factor, but the NATO/EU expansion factor surely weighed heavily in the decision to invade.

US and by extension NATO are the 900 lb gorilla in the world today. People don't like 900 lb gorillas. They cope with them as best they can. Russia chose unwisely, by our standards. Maybe it works out for them in the end, though.