Coronavirus General Discussion

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Kbg
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Kbg » Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:08 pm

The three folks who got banned…I could care less about their politics. It was their toxicity and for two, absolutely zero value added. SomeDude had the gold deal posts which was it for value added.

Is the above statement even debatable?

Being a lib on either extreme doesn’t give one the right to essentially blow up a board…when the board moderator thinks of quitting, that’s a problem.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:20 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:28 am
My reaction to this is that if they are put off by the political forums, then why can they not just ignore those? I completely understand if it was in the investing forums because that is invading the core part of the board. But for the misc forums I think that outside of direct insults people should just be adults and disregard what they do not find suits them. And I would not call anything on this board remotely toxic in comparison to other internet boards. It may be poor or tiresome attempts at humor in some cases but not toxic.
Bullseye.

I've blocked a few members, and the feature works great. Sometimes I click on the blocked members' posts to expand and read them, sometimes I don't. The choice is mine. If I lack the self-control to avoid posts by someone who makes my blood boil, that's purely my problem, not theirs.

The whole notion that the forum has a uniform "brand" for everyone, and that a given member's posts can tarnish that "brand", is kind of silly. The "brand" is highly customizable and varies heavily depending on which sub-forums and threads you choose to read and participate in, and which members you choose to block (or not).

This forum continues to be a microcosm of society at large: The tug-of-war between the priority of freedom and logic vs. the priority of decorum and feelings is continuing to separate people into two incompatible tribes.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Mountaineer » Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:29 pm

I support Xan. He volunteered for a tough, mostly thankless role. I too hope Corto and Desert stick around; I have found their contributions value adding.

FWIW, I only frequent four forums, one of which is this one. A year plus ago I dropped off all social media platforms which I found to have devolved into a cesspool of toxicity. I am about ready to quit one of the four forums due to the condescending toxic tone of one long time member that the moderators refuse to address. One or two toxic members can destroy the whole thing for all … something about one bad apple can ruin the whole bushel. I was considering whether to continue here as well. Thus, I heartily support Xan and thank him for his actions of not violin playing or rearranging the deck chairs while the ship gains momentum to go under. Maybe we can all try to do better in thoughtfully thinking how our posts can be perceived and thus choose our words and tone carefully. Blessings to all.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by flyingpylon » Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:58 pm

Saw this today by total coincidence (if anything in the universe is a coincidence)...

Image
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Kbg » Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:18 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:20 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:28 am
My reaction to this is that if they are put off by the political forums, then why can they not just ignore those? I completely understand if it was in the investing forums because that is invading the core part of the board. But for the misc forums I think that outside of direct insults people should just be adults and disregard what they do not find suits them. And I would not call anything on this board remotely toxic in comparison to other internet boards. It may be poor or tiresome attempts at humor in some cases but not toxic.
Bullseye.

I've blocked a few members, and the feature works great. Sometimes I click on the blocked members' posts to expand and read them, sometimes I don't. The choice is mine. If I lack the self-control to avoid posts by someone who makes my blood boil, that's purely my problem, not theirs.

The whole notion that the forum has a uniform "brand" for everyone, and that a given member's posts can tarnish that "brand", is kind of silly. The "brand" is highly customizable and varies heavily depending on which sub-forums and threads you choose to read and participate in, and which members you choose to block (or not).

This forum continues to be a microcosm of society at large: The tug-of-war between the priority of freedom and logic vs. the priority of decorum and feelings is continuing to separate people into two incompatible tribes.
Technically true and theoretically correct.

Reality check: There was an exodus of quality posters to the board in December. As Charlie Munger says, invert, always invert. What if someone who is polite, considerate, well spoken/written wants to go to the "Other Section" and engage in political discussion? Must they wade through a sewer and be ridiculed for a differing political opinion to the point they say "screw it" to the whole board? Or as was continuously the case, factual information completely scorned because the receiver has a single self-created reality impervious to anything contrary to their political or COVID beliefs?

If a new board member came here they would see "red", they most likely would click on the "red." If all the "red" is in the other section and by most standards they are seeing what appears to an alternate universe, why stay?

But to the point: Why would anyone want to moderate an investing board where 80-90% of the posts are 10 people discussing far right politics and churning over COVID on a daily basis?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pugchief » Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:33 pm

Kbg wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:18 pm

But to the point: Why would anyone want to moderate an investing board where 80-90% of the posts are 10 people discussing far right politics and churning over COVID on a daily basis?
Come for the investing (specifically, the HBPP discussion), stay for the Other Discussions. As has been said may times by CraigR and MediumTex among others: Once you become comfortable with the PP, there isn't much more to say. What has kept me engaged here over the years has been the discussions unrelated to the PP. Politics is part of that. I consider everyone here my friend, even if I disagree with some or all of your views. The country has become polarized, and what's been going on here is just an extension of that.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:39 pm

Kbg wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:18 pm
Reality check: There was an exodus of quality posters to the board in December. As Charlie Munger says, invert, always invert. What if someone who is polite, considerate, well spoken/written wants to go to the "Other Section" and engage in political discussion? Must they wade through a sewer and be ridiculed for a differing political opinion to the point they say "screw it" to the whole board? Or as was continuously the case, factual information completely scorned because the receiver has a single self-created reality impervious to anything contrary to their political or COVID beliefs?
Forum members on both sides of the political and Covid debates here have expressed frustration at various times that the other side is ignoring certain facts. Much of the debate here centers around where those facts are being reported, and how we are synthesizing them to reach a particular viewpoint.

Kbg wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:18 pm
If a new board member came here they would see "red", they most likely would click on the "red." If all the "red" is in the other section and by most standards they are seeing what appears to an alternate universe, why stay?
Sounds to me like a problem of too little content in the investing sub-forums, not of too much content in the Other sub-forum. The Other sub-forum doesn't parasitically suck activity out of the investing sub-forums. Silencing certain posts in the Other sub-forum doesn't automatically create more posts in the investing sub-forums.

The Other or Political sub-forums can easily be ignored by joining the Non-Other or Non-Political groups. That's precisely why Xan created them. If a new member doesn't even bother to read the stickies about how this forum works (including group subscriptions), that's entirely their own problem, not ours.

If any of you really want to see more activity in the investing sub-forums, be the change you want to see in the world: Start some new investing threads! And try to keep them going. Then more of the "red" will be investing-related, and guests and new members will see them and hopefully want to engage.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Kbg » Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:08 pm

Fair.

The problem is generally you want some engagement/useful comments on what is posted.

But yeah, if you want a right wing political board of 10 people then I guess we will all see if Xan wants to continue to host one.

I think you substantively ducked the newbie turnoff question though. Boards are like restaurants; they attract or lose customers based on what they have to offer. My argument is that seriously obnoxious posters and a majority of posts by volume that turn off half the country is not likely an appetizing place most want to eat.

As a personal example, I came here from Bogleheads and it (here back in the day) was an excellent place to be. I find myself more and more back on Bogleheads and less and less here because of both toxicity and lack of investing content. Booting toxic posters happens all the time on many forums. I don't see a problem with it at all. My worry is that the damage is done and the investing section isn't going to survive.

Regardless of where we stand on any of this, I think we would all observe that board participation and investing content is way down.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by I Shrugged » Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:41 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:29 pm
I support Xan. He volunteered for a tough, mostly thankless role. I too hope Corto and Desert stick around; I have found their contributions value adding.

FWIW, I only frequent four forums, one of which is this one. A year plus ago I dropped off all social media platforms which I found to have devolved into a cesspool of toxicity. I am about ready to quit one of the four forums due to the condescending toxic tone of one long time member that the moderators refuse to address. One or two toxic members can destroy the whole thing for all … something about one bad apple can ruin the whole bushel. I was considering whether to continue here as well. Thus, I heartily support Xan and thank him for his actions of not violin playing or rearranging the deck chairs while the ship gains momentum to go under. Maybe we can all try to do better in thoughtfully thinking how our posts can be perceived and thus choose our words and tone carefully. Blessings to all.

100%
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Kbg » Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:10 pm

+100% more
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Desert » Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:59 pm

Thanks KBG, Mountaineer and others. I do think this is a forum worth preserving, and I hope we all can work to improve it.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pp4me » Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:12 pm

In defense of tomfoolery he sent me a PM just before he got banned in which he dropped out of the tomfoolery character and shared some information about our mutual respect for Thomas Sowell.

His posts were confusing and troll-like to be sure but I think he meant well.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Xan » Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:55 pm

pp4me wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:12 pm
In defense of tomfoolery he sent me a PM just before he got banned in which he dropped out of the tomfoolery character and shared some information about our mutual respect for Thomas Sowell.

His posts were confusing and troll-like to be sure but I think he meant well.
He and SomeDude haven't technically been banned; they've been prevented from making public posts. They are still able to communicate via PM.

I do think he meant well, and I wish he had posted some of those thoughts about Sowell for us to ponder on instead of just a constant stream of garbage.

And I appreciate the support, guys, and I also completely understand if people don't like the recent move. There's no one correct, perfect way to do this. I wish there were!
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:45 pm

Another study.

Is this a reputable journal?

Vinny

CORRESPONDENCE
Published: 30 September 2021
Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States
S. V. Subramanian & Akhil Kumar
European Journal of Epidemiology (2021)Cite this article



Vaccines currently are the primary mitigation strategy to combat COVID-19 around the world. For instance, the narrative related to the ongoing surge of new cases in the United States (US) is argued to be driven by areas with low vaccination rates [1]. A similar narrative also has been observed in countries, such as Germany and the United Kingdom [2]. At the same time, Israel that was hailed for its swift and high rates of vaccination has also seen a substantial resurgence in COVID-19 cases [3]. We investigate the relationship between the percentage of population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases across 68 countries and across 2947 counties in the US.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Benko » Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:51 pm

https://www.whec.com/coronavirus/news10 ... s/6261160/

Vaccinated person gets covid, is hospitalized and worsens, fails all other treatments and was in ICU on ventilator, dying. Family inquires about ivermectin, and agrees to sign a liability waiver and pt is prescribed ivermectin. Hospital refuses to administer it. Family sues hospital, judge sides with family and hospital still refuses. PT dies.

Off label use of drugs was pretty standard practice.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by boglerdude » Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:30 am

> He and SomeDude haven't technically been banned; they've been prevented from making public posts

Just dont let them post in the "serious" investment forums. Create an "anything goes" subforum
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by sophie » Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:54 am

Xan wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:13 am
sophie wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:40 am
Xan I understand your reasoning here, however I'm not sure why it only applies to the conservative viewpoints on the forum.

There are people on the liberal side who have not been banned, and yet have the same negative effect. Any thought of doing something about that?
I can't think of anybody who has had the negative effect that SomeDude and Tomfoolery have had. They chased off Ad O which is a crying shame, maybe Corto and Desert too which is also awful, and who knows how many others are put off from participating by their toxicity.

It sounds like you have someone specific in mind? KayFabee might qualify and he in fact was banned.
I can name names if you'd like me to - perhaps by PM. There is one poster who has rendered the forum nearly unreadable - even with the blocking feature - and contributes almost nothing. A few others contribute long, rambling, "wall of text" prose that essentially block discussion rather than add to it. Those posters haven't been active lately and if they've been chased off by Tomfoolery and SomeDude, then that's all to the good in my opinion.

There are also a number of posters on both sides, but mainly in the far-left camp, who too often respond with simple contradiction and sometimes outright personal insults, which also doesn't foster good discussion. Sort of like the Monty Python "argument clinic" sketch, except it's not funny in real life.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pugchief » Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:37 am

I guess Scott Adams has basically the same opinion as I do:
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Hal » Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:21 pm

This interview is so good that I had to repost it from the Political Forum.
The summary and link is below. Highly recommend watching it.

Acting Senior Sergeant Krystle Mitchell is a sworn member of the Victoria Police in Australia. She has served Victorians for 16 years as a police officer including 6 years at Professional Standards Command - the division responsible for investigating police misconduct, corruption, discrimination and freedom of information, referring investigations to the Independent Broad-based Anti-corruption Commission (IBAC) where appropriate.

Acting Senior Sergeant Mitchell cites ethical conflicts as the reason for speaking publicly about conduct of Victoria Police officers, their Chief Commissioner - Shane Patton, their Minister - the Hon. Lisa Neville MP, and ultimately their Premier - the Hon. Daniel Andrews MP. She feels she can no longer remain silent with the division between police and community is growing, and totally ignored by the leadership of both the police and government.

Despite a promise to focus on 'Community Policing' and 'Back to Basics' policing by Shane Patton, Acting Senior Sergeant Mitchell has witnessed the opposite trajectory during the Covid-19 pandemic and is reminding her colleagues that ultimately they will individually be held accountable for their actions, and are still subject to s 462A of the Crimes Act 1958 (Vic) which forbids the disproportionate use of force.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Kn6AFl5G1c

Political replies to this over in the Political Forum please. Ethical/Covid replies fine in this thread.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by barrett » Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:52 pm

pugchief wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:37 am
I guess Scott Adams has basically the same opinion as I do:
I think I am supposed to be one of the Lefties on here but I agree. Here in CT, Governor Lamont had his executive powers extended another four plus months. This in spite of the fact that statewide more than 77% of all CT residents have had at least one vaccine dose.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pugchief » Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:08 pm

barrett wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:52 pm
pugchief wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:37 am
I guess Scott Adams has basically the same opinion as I do:
I think I am supposed to be one of the Lefties on here but I agree. Here in CT, Governor Lamont had his executive powers extended another four plus months. This in spite of the fact that statewide more than 77% of all CT residents have had at least one vaccine dose.
The only thing more maddening than the ridiculous mandates is having no clear metrics for relaxing them.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:25 pm

pugchief wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:08 pm

barrett wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:52 pm

pugchief wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:37 am

I guess Scott Adams has basically the same opinion as I do:


I think I am supposed to be one of the Lefties on here but I agree. Here in CT, Governor Lamont had his executive powers extended another four plus months. This in spite of the fact that statewide more than 77% of all CT residents have had at least one vaccine dose.


The only thing more maddening than the ridiculous mandates is having no clear metrics for relaxing them.


What were the metrics for ever ending a military war?

What were the metrics for ever ending the "War on Drugs"?

Where else have we ever seen the government reveal metrics for ending anything?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:43 pm

pugchief wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:08 pm
The only thing more maddening than the ridiculous mandates is having no clear metrics for relaxing them.
Here in California, Emperor Newsom initially mandated a color-coded tier system of Covid restrictions whose least-restrictive tier (which still had some restrictions!) wasn't even physically achievable due to the false-positive rate of the RT-PCR tests.

Eventually, he just ditched the tier system entirely a few months before his recall election. For purely scientific reasons, obviously.

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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by sophie » Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:21 pm

pugchief wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:08 pm
barrett wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:52 pm
pugchief wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:37 am
I guess Scott Adams has basically the same opinion as I do:
I think I am supposed to be one of the Lefties on here but I agree. Here in CT, Governor Lamont had his executive powers extended another four plus months. This in spite of the fact that statewide more than 77% of all CT residents have had at least one vaccine dose.
The only thing more maddening than the ridiculous mandates is having no clear metrics for relaxing them.
Not only that, but there is absolutely no reason to believe that COVID incidence will ever be any different from what it is right now. So even if there was a metric, it will never be reached if it hasn't been already.

The pattern is that COVID hits a new area, mows through it like wildfire for about 6-8 weeks, and then settles in as yet another endemic seasonal illness. NYC was one of the first places in the US to get hit, so our pandemic period finished up in May of 2020. Healthwise, nothing of note has happened since.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by boglerdude » Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:34 am

> The only thing more maddening than the ridiculous mandates is having no clear metrics for relaxing them

And more maddening than that, are the children and communists on social media begging for gulags.

Pilot strike conspiracy theory?
https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/ ... s/hgakkl4/

https://kutv.com/news/local/southwest-a ... ne-mandate
https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status ... 1717919744

Remember what the Late Shows were like in the 90s, well...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSkFyNVtNh8
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