Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

[yankees60]

sarcasm, Vinny, sarcasm

Of course I knew that. It was my way of showing appreciation for the wit. A trait that is shared by all pugs?

How could be interpreted as anything but sarcasm when you were responding to a nonsensical?

[SomeDude]

Ya, Murph, white birth rates in the US had been declining long before Covid.

A 20% drop in 3 years would be huge, though, wouldn't it?

Massive.

If marriage wasn't so onerous for men and the birthrate of non-whites by and large subsidized by taxes extracted from whites, the relative birthrates would be very different.

The country is transforming and whites will soon be an absolute minority. Please remember that senile fool sitting in the whitehouse said...."that's a good thing".

I wonder what country they will migrate to then, Canada eh?

[SomeDude]

Ya, Murph, white birth rates in the US had been declining long before Covid.

A 20% drop in 3 years would be huge, though, wouldn't it?

Not historically unheard of by any means. US TFR (for all races) dropped from around 3.62 in 1961 to approximately 2.46 in 1968. The biggest drops were in the mid-1960s and were at a rate pretty close to 20% a year.

You mean birth rates dropped after the baby boom?

Not even close to today's situation or relevant. I've quickly glanced at a few charts and the birthrate of all Americans looks the same in the late 60's as in the 30's or 20's when huge amounts of the population were still on farms.

Pretty sure whites are at or below replacement rate now. A 20% drop from replacement rate is a death sentence for the race.

[SomeDude]

I'm not sure why we should settle for a mere 20% reduction in population to prove the oligarchs' deadly plan. With 190 million Americans vaccinated, I expect population to decline by at least 150 million when the blood clots hit in three years. Let's not let the oligarchs off easy on this one. These oligarchs aren't incompetent, so let's set the bar high. I need to see at least 150 million bodies.

Murphy, a good play would be to invest in Funeral Homes and refrigerated trucks. I wouldn't bother with casket manufacturers as they will never be able to produce enough to satisfy need. Expect mass funeral fires, where hundreds of bodies are torched at a time in giant pits.

We will need more cemetery space regardless.....maybe just buy up a lot of plots, buyers will be dying to get in them.

[yankees60]

NYPD cops must either wear mask, prove they’re vaxxed - or face disciplinary action


https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny ... story.html

[KayFaybe]

I don't know about you, but if I was in a job where I strongly believed my colleagues were doing something that was detrimental to the well-being of my customers / the population at large, I would find a way to actively -- not passively -- resist.

You are making lots of untrue assumptions.

What assumptions are those?

Talking to a very sharp internist I know, the much feared "spike protein" is only made by the body (if you have had one of the first 2 brands of vaccines) for the first 48 hours. I have no idea if these vaccines are more harmful long term than any other vaccine.

I'm not sure what you are getting at with the above.

My questions/premise are simple, and you've chosen to ignore them. Perhaps you are a closet liberal. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and ask them again.

1. Do you believe that COVID poses no threat to people's health?

2. Do you believe the COVID vaccine is a threat to people's health?

3. If you answer "yes" to either 1 or 2, why aren't you, as a member of the medical community, actively promoting that view to your patients and colleagues?

[Benko]

Untrue assumptions?

1. That I have patients. Not that kind of doctor. Rarely interact with patients, and don't manage any.

2. That advocating for less than conventional points of view within the medical system can produce change. I know that for a fact because (unrelated to covid/vaccines) I have certain great skepticisms about areas of conventional medicine and decades ago use to voice my opinions--it mostly pisses people off and they value your opinion less. Im speaking about sharing my opinion with other physicians (some but not the majority of whom were training me).

As to your questions, obviously covid can kill people (or produce severe complications). and

DO I believe covid vaccine is "threat" to people's health?

Everything in life is risk vs benefit. I don't know what latest data is, and we don't have long term perspective, but for people at risk e.g. over 60 (70?) the benefits of taking Johnson and Johnson vaccine probably outweighs any risks.

Unfortunately despite the increased risk in my case, I'm probably going to have to take a vaccine and if so, I'll take Johnson and Johnson for several reasons but particularly because it is only 1 shot (more shots=potential increased risk for me).

[SomeDude]

NYPD cops must either wear mask, prove they’re vaxxed - or face disciplinary action


https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny ... story.html

At this point i bet 95% of people getting vaxxed are doing it to avoid losing their jobs

[D1984]

Ya, Murph, white birth rates in the US had been declining long before Covid.

A 20% drop in 3 years would be huge, though, wouldn't it?

Not historically unheard of by any means. US TFR (for all races) dropped from around 3.62 in 1961 to approximately 2.46 in 1968. The biggest drops were in the mid-1960s and were at a rate pretty close to 20% a year.

You mean birth rates dropped after the baby boom?

Not even close to today's situation or relevant. I've quickly glanced at a few charts and the birthrate of all Americans looks the same in the late 60's as in the 30's or 20's when huge amounts of the population were still on farms.

Pretty sure whites are at or below replacement rate now. A 20% drop from replacement rate is a death sentence for the race.

One, who cares if whites (or for that matter any other race) are below replacement rate? Are you somehow suggesting that Hispanics/blacks/Asians/Native Americans/mixed-race people are "not real Americans" and therefore having a future USA that lacked whites (which would be a loooooong time coming; whites are still projected to be a majority at between 2041 and the early 2060s depending on immigration rates....see https://www.brookings.edu/research/redu ... ions-show/ , they will still be a plurality even decades after that; this is nowhere close to them "dying off" which would take centuries at minimum) would somehow be no longer America? If you are worried about TFR overall being too low to produce enough workers (of any and all races) to take care of an increasingly elderly population that is a justifiable concern; if you are worried instead about not enough of one particular race being produced....well, that borders on racism and racial supremacy and I don't know why any non-racist person should take you seriously.

Two, yes, I was referring to the drop-off after the baby boom. We saw a similar albeit not quite as steep drop off from around 1920 to the early 1930s (and you can't blame this on the Depression since that didn't even start until late 1929). I was just showing that large drops in fertility aren't historically unprecedented.

Three, TFRs for all races have been declining; on top of that, a good bit of the higher relative TFRs (vs whites) for Hispanics is explained by the fact that 1st generation immigrants (and to a much lesser extent their second generation immigrant i.e. first generation American offspring) tend statistically to have higher fertility rates than native-born Americans of all races. By the third generation the children of immigrants tend to have TFRs pretty close to averages for their home country (the USA).

Four, how much of the decline of white population was accounted for by whites marrying someone of a different race and having offspring with this person? I noticed the number of "mixed-race" people increased considerably in this census vs 2010 and there is also statistical evidence corroborating this; mixed race-marriages have gone from just under 3% in the late 1960s ( https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch ... came-legal ) to around 19 percent today ( https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... s-changed/ ). The white population on average is older than other races; if an elderly white person dies and is "replaced" demographically by a child that is half-white and half another race that could account for some of the decline in the white population....but is said mixed race person (who is BTW still half white in racial terms) somehow "less" of an American for not being "pure" white?

[D1984]

Ya, Murph, white birth rates in the US had been declining long before Covid.

A 20% drop in 3 years would be huge, though, wouldn't it?

Massive.

If marriage wasn't so onerous for men and the birthrate of non-whites by and large subsidized by taxes extracted from whites, the relative birthrates would be very different.

The country is transforming and whites will soon be an absolute minority. Please remember that senile fool sitting in the whitehouse said...."that's a good thing".

I wonder what country they will migrate to then, Canada eh?

I actually agree with you that marriage is onerous, alimony is basically theft, and child support as it currently stands is grossly unfair to men. However, I also must point out that women have been generally given primary custody for the better part of a century or more (the "tender years" doctrine being used to get laws passed between the 1890s and 1920s that favored women as primary parents...especially for younger children); alimony has been payable since at least the 1800s (and probably before that as it has precedents in everything from English common law to the Code of Hammurabi), the "standard of living to which she/he has become accustomed" alimony rule has been in existence since the 1960s (at least), no fault divorce has been available (depending on one's state) from the late 1960s to the mid-1970s; and child support has been payable in its current form since (again, depending one one's state) anywhere from the early 1900s to 1975....and yet the decrease in birthrates to a level below replacement on what appears to be a long-term or permanent basis didn't happen until around 2008. If you want a plausible theory linking "onerousness of marriage" to long-term declining birth rates you need to come up with good reasons why birth rates only starting declining in the past ten to twelve years rather than several decades ago.

As for the whole "birthrates of non-whites being subsidized by whites" theory to try and explain why white birthrates are lower than non-white birthrates...well, please explain why how with welfare (TANF/AFDC) less generous than it was in 1996 and total Federal and state anti-poverty assistance per poor person down quite a bit from its all time high circa 1976-77 that all of a sudden presumably poorer non-whites would only now decide to start having more children. Medicaid for expectant mothers and for poor children has been around since 1966 (and by the 1970s most states had accepted it and agreed to fund their share) so it can't be that the poor suddenly started getting Medicaid coverage; the ACA's expansion of Medicaid was to a large degree an expansion to poor childless adults (since poor families with children already had either Medicaid or SCHIP/CHIP; Medicaid having been around since over 50 years ago and SCHIP having been around since 1996).

You also can't credibly say that income taxes, capital gains taxes, dividend taxes, estate taxes, or corporate taxes (all of which which would presumably fall harder on whites if whites are indeed the more affluent race on average since all the above taxes are progressive) are now higher than they were 50 or 30 or 15 years ago....because they largely aren't. Payroll/FICA taxes have indeed risen dramatically since 1980 or so (albeit the rise was completed by the early 1990s and they haven't risen since) but payroll taxes are a regressive tax and hit the poor and middle class harder than the wealthy; if non-whites are on average less well-off than whites a payroll tax rise would hurt them financially (and thus presumably lower their birthrates) worse than it would hurt whites.

Your hypothesis doesn't really hold water.

[yankees60]

NYPD cops must either wear mask, prove they’re vaxxed - or face disciplinary action


https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny ... story.html

At this point i bet 95% of people getting vaxxed are doing it to avoid losing their jobs

Not even close! 95% of people I knew were fighting to get their vaccine as early as possible.

But it's not something that gets discussed. On my softball team of 27 of which I am the coach...I really don't know for certain whether or not a a large portion of them did or not. I do for the ones who told me that they were going to be missing a game or a practice because they had got their shot that day. But otherwise though we all had to wear masks through May...we did not discuss as a team who was or was not vaccinated.

[Xan]

NYPD cops must either wear mask, prove they’re vaxxed - or face disciplinary action


https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny ... story.html

At this point i bet 95% of people getting vaxxed are doing it to avoid losing their jobs

Not even close! 95% of people I knew were fighting to get their vaccine as early as possible.

But it's not something that gets discussed. On my softball team of 27 of which I am the coach...I really don't know for certain whether or not a a large portion of them did or not. I do for the ones who told me that they were going to be missing a game or a practice because they had got their shot that day. But otherwise though we all had to wear masks through May...we did not discuss as a team who was or was not vaccinated.

I took SomeDude to be talking about the ones who are doing it now, as opposed to earlier. Of the ones getting the vaccine now, surely a higher proportion are doing so to avoid losing their jobs than the ones who got the vaccine earlier.

The recent uptick in numbers implies that it's largely a result of the spike in cases, hospitalizations, deaths, etc, though.

[yankees60]

NYPD cops must either wear mask, prove they’re vaxxed - or face disciplinary action


https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny ... story.html

At this point i bet 95% of people getting vaxxed are doing it to avoid losing their jobs

Not even close! 95% of people I knew were fighting to get their vaccine as early as possible.

But it's not something that gets discussed. On my softball team of 27 of which I am the coach...I really don't know for certain whether or not a a large portion of them did or not. I do for the ones who told me that they were going to be missing a game or a practice because they had got their shot that day. But otherwise though we all had to wear masks through May...we did not discuss as a team who was or was not vaccinated.

I took SomeDude to be talking about the ones who are doing it now, as opposed to earlier. Of the ones getting the vaccine now, surely a higher proportion are doing so to avoid losing their jobs than the ones who got the vaccine earlier.

The recent uptick in numbers implies that it's largely a result of the spike in cases, hospitalizations, deaths, etc, though.

Yes. After rereading what he wrote...I now do agree with you.

[yankees60]

U.S. NEWS 08/19/2021 09:43 pm ET
An Alabama Doctor Is Refusing To See Patients Unvaccinated Against COVID-19. Can He?
Legal and ethical experts weighed in after Dr. Jason Valentine made national headlines this week over his decision.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/doctor-r ... um=twitter

[KayFaybe]

Untrue assumptions?

1. That I have patients. Not that kind of doctor. Rarely interact with patients, and don't manage any.

OK, fine.

2. That advocating for less than conventional points of view within the medical system can produce change. I know that for a fact because (unrelated to covid/vaccines) I have certain great skepticisms about areas of conventional medicine and decades ago use to voice my opinions--it mostly pisses people off and they value your opinion less. Im speaking about sharing my opinion with other physicians (some but not the majority of whom were training me).

As a long-time Republican/libertarian/conservative/Trump voter, I know the current culture is out to destroy us. I've seen many of your posts assert the same thing.

And yet your response is to give in? I guess you've been bought off.

Sounds pretty cowardly to me. Or maybe Stockholm syndrome. Are you sure you're not a liberal?

DO I believe covid vaccine is "threat" to people's health?

Everything in life is risk vs benefit. I don't know what latest data is, and we don't have long term perspective, but for people at risk e.g. over 60 (70?) the benefits of taking Johnson and Johnson vaccine probably outweighs any risks.

Ah, so you think COVID is a real thing. Gotcha. So you are against the general consensus among the long-time Republican/libertarian/conservative/Trump voters here who don't trust what the deep state health care agencies are telling the sheep. You are one of the sheep.

[SomeDude]

NYPD cops must either wear mask, prove they’re vaxxed - or face disciplinary action


https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny ... story.html

At this point i bet 95% of people getting vaxxed are doing it to avoid losing their jobs

Not even close! 95% of people I knew were fighting to get their vaccine as early as possible.

But it's not something that gets discussed. On my softball team of 27 of which I am the coach...I really don't know for certain whether or not a a large portion of them did or not. I do for the ones who told me that they were going to be missing a game or a practice because they had got their shot that day. But otherwise though we all had to wear masks through May...we did not discuss as a team who was or was not vaccinated.

I took SomeDude to be talking about the ones who are doing it now, as opposed to earlier. Of the ones getting the vaccine now, surely a higher proportion are doing so to avoid losing their jobs than the ones who got the vaccine earlier.

The recent uptick in numbers implies that it's largely a result of the spike in cases, hospitalizations, deaths, etc, though.

Yes that's what I meant Xan. Most doing it now are out of fear of loss of employment or some restriction rather than fear of Covid. At least this what i hear from anyone i know getting it now. I ask everyone who tells me they are getting it or just got it and they all say its because of their employer. All of them.

[yankees60]

Yes that's what I meant Xan. Most doing it now are out of fear of loss of employment or some restriction rather than fear of Covid. At least this what i hear from anyone i know getting it now. I ask everyone who tells me they are getting it or just got it and they all say its because of their employer. All of them.

Yes, after more carefully reading all your words....I tend to agree with you. Just about everyone else had had plenty of time to get the vaccine without being under the threat of any repercussions.

[yankees60]

Fox News requires employees to provide vaccination status


https://thehill.com/media/568673-fox-ne ... ion-status

[yankees60]

Jason Isbell on the Concert Biz’s Shift Toward Vaccination Mandates: ‘Some of Us Saw the Building Was on Fire’
In a Q&A, the rocker talks about why these requirements are essential to avoiding another live-music shutdown, why he credits capitalism for the move to adapt new measures, and why he engages adversaries on social media.


By Chris Willman

https://variety.com/2021/music/news/jas ... 235045060/

Next week I will be going to a familiar music place to hear music.

They will now be requiring proof of vaccination when you are going in. If you do not have it then you will need to wear a mask while in the place.

[yankees60]

Capture.JPG (95.95 KiB) Viewed 5786 times

[glennds]

I've heard it mentioned here that what makes the Covid vaccine "experimental" is the lack of FDA approval.

So does today's FDA approval make it no longer experimental?

Does the approval make it acceptable now, or at least closer to acceptable? Or is the FDA approval of no consequence?

Markets seem to be responding to it as a very positive development, which is why I ask.

[Kbg]

This post piqued my curiosity on what the difference between emergency use and full approval...

Where EUA and full approval differ
From this point on, emergency use authorization and full FDA approval for COVID-19 vaccines follow different clinical study requirements.

For the emergency use authorization, the FDA requires at least half of the participants of the original studies to be followed for at least two months post-vaccination. This is because the vast majority of vaccine-related side effects occur right after vaccination.

Full FDA approval, on the other hand, requires participants in the original studies to be followed for at least six months. Reviewers look at data from the same study participants but collected over a longer period of time. All adverse events are examined. The manufacturer must also provide more detailed manufacturing plans and processes, as well as a higher level of oversight and inspections. All of this adds significantly more time to the review process. https://theconversation.com/what-does-f ... use-165654

A while back I had looked at what was the legal difference, and basically standard vaccination mandates can now be applied similar to other vaccine mandates. From what I understand these can vary quite a bit state to state.

Side note...apparently the Delta variant is generating quite a bit of folks all up for getting vaccinated now.

Look at Florida where there is no COVID, wonder why the vaccination rates are way up?

Theory A: Oppressive governments and businesses?

Theory B: People deciding maybe dying young needlessly isn't such a great idea after all?

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracke ... ion-trends

[Xan]

Apparently full approval means it's now possible for physicians to prescribe "off-label" use of the vaccine, meaning it could be possible for kids under 12 to get it even before the EUA goes through. We still need to wait for the study to know the doses and a few other things, though.

[Cortopassi]

Indoor mask mandates went back into effect here today in spite of high vaccination rates. I am not pleased.

I am not pleased either, but neither do I feel particularly oppressed.

We were just at Ravinia to see The Beach Boys (they still sound good!) for my brother's 60th. I always look at these things with a jaded eye -- funny how we heard so much about Sturgis, but don't hear anything really about Lollapalloza or places like Ravinia being super spreader potential events.

The sense I get is when the curve below starts back down, they will be lifted quickly.

[Kbg]

Mask or not mask != freedom or not freedom. The whole thing was completely fabricated, exploited for political purposes on both sides.

Masks as a barrier and medical protocol have been around for a very long time. Somewhere we lost our freaking minds about them. Before and after Covid, the basics of masking are unchanged.

1. They mitigate, they don’t prevent.
2. The stronger/better the mask the better the mitigation.
3. Two masks/two people = better mitigation.

I do think post all this stuff we are going to understand the impact psychology and education wise of wide scale mask wearing better. I sincerely hope that there are studies on how to handle a pandemic when a significant part of the public says, nope not doing it. As I’ve said many times, the virus doesn’t care what our views are.