Xan wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:25 am
It sure seems like there was some kind of serious misunderstanding.
I don't see anything in bad faith about what Tortoise posted. Kbg, could you either specifically explain how Tortoise did something disingenuous, or apologize for the mistake? One or the other is undoubtedly called for.
Grudging apology given, criticism for lack of context remains. The intent of the post was perhaps not deliberately misleading but the opinion (bias) of the poster is clear. Bias or motive should always be taken into account when reading anything, including my posts which are biased. We are all biased due to our experiences of life, simply unavoidable. If this thread is simply for entertainment purposes then I'll up my apology level to sincere. If we are here to have a serious discussion, then my expectation is that posters take a bit of time and evaluate their sources.
Generally Reuters is considered a relatively unbiased publisher of news and within their posts/articles they normally just stick to the facts of what happened, unlike almost all American news sources these days. So let's give the source a good grade. Now for the critique, 40% of hospitalizations for people WITH the vaccination??? What is going on? That seems completely off the standard news narrative. Personally, it caught my attention immediately and that's why I reacted (after doing some research).
Let's run the numbers as I suggested
UK vaccination rates are here
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833 Let's call it 88% Other sources have it in the lower 80s (Side note: throw in minors and they are mid to high 50s)
UK efficacy rate
https://www.statista.com/chart/25116/ne ... nation-uk/ high 90s
But then what is this efficacy/effectiveness stuff...
https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid ... -explained
Simply put...the math matters and when most of the eligible population have been vaccinated it goes without saying that more people "with" the vaccination will be hospitalized. If 100% have had the vax then 100% who will be hospitalized for any reason will be in that category.
Here is a SUPER helpful concept...
http://www.differencebetween.net/langua ... -relative/
So let's put this all together in a series of nice data derived graphs
https://ourworldindata.org/local-covid-uk
The middle right hand graph is "the money" graphic
While you peruse the graphs don't forget that SUPER helpful concept of relative vs. absolute, it matters.
I really need to stay out of this thread, LOL. Speaking of bias...I have one. Ignore the words, go to the data. This is a heinously political, poorly reported on and insanely contentious issue that really shouldn't be. Everything you need to know REALLY is in the data and the sample size for statistical purposes is ginormous now. It ain't Jan-Mar of 2020 anymore when we didn't really know what we were dealing with.
Returning to the High Castle now. ;-)