Coronavirus General Discussion

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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Tue May 11, 2021 1:20 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 12:12 pm

Corto, you seem like a very optimistic person, and I admire that. But you seem to think that once most parts of society are reopened and have gone back to normal, we can just kind of put the past year behind us and get on with our lives.
Thanks, man, the older I get the less and less I want to be that crabby old guy. I see too many of them.

I have come to the realization, though, as we see here (and I see with a number of good friends) is that there will never be any getting over the past year for some, in multiple ways (Covid and the election mainly).

I don't know what to do about that other than realize these events are mainly in the past and move forward. Because there is almost no changing of minds. People need to come to their own conclusions, or change their conclusions only over the course of time. Seems trite, but time heals all wounds is appropriate here.

The good things I see is every restaurant we went to previously has made it, and are now packed. Everyone in my family made it through. My company made it through. My kids made it through, spectacularly. I know many can't say the same.

So why should I bother focusing on over-reach and mistakes officials made along the way? It was a fluid situation and most did the best they could with the information they had. I 100% believe that if we get future surges, that they will be dealt with in a much less "lockdowny" manner, just because we have gone through it once and that officials, for the most part that I see, do not want to go through this again.

I know, I know, I will just keep on taking that blue pill....
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue May 11, 2021 1:42 pm

"So why should I bother focusing on over-reach and mistakes officials made along the way? "

Because a totalitarian dictatorship has taken over the country.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue May 11, 2021 1:43 pm

"mistakes"
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by stuper1 » Tue May 11, 2021 1:44 pm

In a country like India, what proportion of the population literally lives hand to mouth? How many people would basically starve to death from a lockdown? These people like Fauci have no conception of how to balance competing priorities. They have one thing on their mind and that's all they can think about. Literally can't walk and chew gum at the same time.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Tortoise » Tue May 11, 2021 1:54 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:36 pm
And if you think lockdowns are a thing of the past, Fauci was BEGGING the PM of India to lock the whole country down hard yesterday.
Yup, and I think most people will also beg for another lockdown the next time a mysterious new virus makes the rounds and the CDC says we're not completely sure how fast it will spread and how sick it may make people.

The reason most people will beg for lockdowns again, despite Covid lockdown fatigue, is because with the next virus it will be "different this time". The experts will say we can't compare the new virus to SARS-CoV-2 because of scientific reasons X, Y, and Z, and therefore we must play it safe by locking down again.

The lockdown precedent has now been set, and that can't be undone.

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:20 pm
I don't know what to do about that other than realize these events are mainly in the past and move forward.
Depends on what you mean by moving forward, Corto.

I think a critically important part of moving forward will be holding a grudge about the Covid panic overreaction and how utterly wrong the public health officials turned out to be about so many Covid-related things -- so that when lockdowns are pushed for the next scary, exotic virus, hopefully a critical mass of people will vividly remember the disaster and will push back with appropriate vigor.

Yes, going with the flow and taking the path of least resistance to avoid confrontation is a virtue in many areas of life. But it doesn't help you avoid getting taken advantage of by people who wish to control you. Only forcefully pushing back works in that case.

That's why I say Americans shouldn't simply forgive and forget. Holding a collective grudge about the Covid bullshit is the only way we'll reduce the chances of history repeating itself in the future.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue May 11, 2021 2:27 pm

There was a comment about for Frauduci calling for severe lockdowns on India. The gist of the comment was that the Fraud/little turd can be excused.

I dispute that. He's a medical doctor and is at least enough intelligent to understand basic economic theory. That he called for economic destruction with no regard for people's livelihoods, as someone else had said, is unforgivable and inexcusable. That alone demonstrates the malice of the regime.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Tue May 11, 2021 2:35 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:42 pm
Because a totalitarian dictatorship has taken over the country.
Do you mean Biden? Were we not locked down multiple times under Trump? Seems other countries (Brazil, for example) have remained mostly open throughout, I think, right?

So the one administration in the past 40 years that could have had the balls (I think I used this exact wording months ago) to say we are not going to lock down, did NOT. And then DID have the balls to incessantly complain about it. (Adding: Please don't say he didn't have sway, it was up to the states. Had he been a decent communicator vs. agitator, he could have put together a coherent plan on why we should stay open)

Had he had the, what, personal communication skills to clearly state why we should not lock down, why didn't he?
---------------------
Anyway, Pug, I am interested to know some restaurants that have closed on you.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue May 11, 2021 2:50 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 9:41 am
The supermarket has their sign up again, so I'm back to complying.
this is probably not a surprise to anyone on this thread, but I studiously ignore those signs and announcements.

Including whem I've had to go to the Post office
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Tue May 11, 2021 3:54 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 2:50 pm
I Shrugged wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 9:41 am
The supermarket has their sign up again, so I'm back to complying.
this is probably not a surprise to anyone on this thread, but I studiously ignore those signs and announcements.

Including whem I've had to go to the Post office
Texas has been completely open for a while now. Absolutely no capacity restrictions on restaurants. So of course pretty much every restaurant is open to full capacity. Except for Starbucks. All of the Starbucks in my vicinity (3 to be exact) are still closed to inside dining. You can only go inside to get something to go.

Do you think those decisions are made at corporate in Washington? Or are they local and they are just being lazy by not wanting to deal with inside customers?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue May 11, 2021 3:55 pm

Starbucks, like the rest of corporate America, is party to the dictatorship
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Tue May 11, 2021 4:06 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:55 pm
dictatorship
Yeah, there's no point anymore. Do you even read what people write or just think of the next cool buzzword to throw out there?

"Texas has been completely open for a while now. "

But I guess all the corporations are party to the dictatorship because of Starbucks. So don't go to Starbucks. Their shit is too expensive anyway.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Tue May 11, 2021 4:22 pm

To be fair, it's more than just Starbucks. It does seem like big chain businesses are more likely than small, independently owned businesses to still have mask and distancing restrictions, even in "fully reopened" states like FL and TX.

For example, my brother just moved to "fully reopened" FL, and he said that although many local businesses have stopped requiring masks, big-box stores like Target still require them.

So to an extent, it does kind of seem to be a "corporate thing". Probably because corporations have deeper pockets, bigger targets painted on their backs, and bigger legal teams who get paid to worry about worst-case legal scenarios.

Covid liability shield laws would pretty quickly put an end to the corporate CYA inertia, but unfortunately it seems like most state governments aren't pursuing that approach.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jalanlong » Tue May 11, 2021 4:35 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:20 pm
I 100% believe that if we get future surges, that they will be dealt with in a much less "lockdowny" manner, just because we have gone through it once and that officials, for the most part that I see, do not want to go through this a"gain.
I respectfully disagree with this. I think that at least 50% (probably more) Americans believe that the reason the US had as many Covid cases and deaths as it did is because we did not lock down fast enough, hard enough and long enough. I still see people every day who say it is "too soon" to go to movies, concerts or sporting events. Fauci himself on ABC This Week last Sunday said that Mothers Day 2022 is when things will be "close to normal."
After seeing what hemming and hawing did to Trump, I don't think any politician faced with a "novel" virus will take the chance on remaining open. They will err on the side of extreme caution now that the bar has been set.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Tue May 11, 2021 5:06 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 4:30 pm
Tortoise wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 4:22 pm
Covid liability shield laws would pretty quickly put an end to the corporate CYA inertia, but unfortunately it seems like most state governments aren't pursuing that approach.
Any thoughts on why that is?
Actually, it looks like I was mistaken. According to the summary on this site, most US states have passed some form of Covid liability shield legislation or are in the process of doing so. Promising trend. It looks like there's a lot of state-to-state variation in those laws, though.

It's possible that some of the big corporations plan to keep their mask and distancing restrictions in place until a certain threshold number of states they operate in pass Covid liability shield laws. Not sure.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue May 11, 2021 5:15 pm

"So to an extent, it does kind of seem to be a "corporate thing". Probably because corporations have deeper pockets, bigger targets painted on their backs, and bigger legal teams who get paid to worry about worst-case legal scenarios."

this is the secondary issue. The primary issue is that corporate boardrooms across America are populated by cultural marxists.

For example, they promote the homosex lifestyle, transgenderism, black lives matter, planned Parenthood....
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by WiseOne » Tue May 11, 2021 6:02 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:54 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:36 pm
And if you think lockdowns are a thing of the past, Fauci was BEGGING the PM of India to lock the whole country down hard yesterday.
Yup, and I think most people will also beg for another lockdown the next time a mysterious new virus makes the rounds and the CDC says we're not completely sure how fast it will spread and how sick it may make people.
Actually, I predict that lockdowns in some form, plus mask mandates, will be reimposed every flu season. New virus not required. The word "variant" together with the usual testing artifact will be sufficient.

Based on the NYC COVID numbers, I have yet to see the effect of the vaccination program. We're just about where we were this time last year, after the first wave had petered out - which stayed stable through October, BEFORE the vaccines, and before the start of the expected winter runup. Statistically, we won't really know until next winter what the effect will be. Or if it will be the same respiratory illness caseload, with "flu" and "COVID" adding up to a constant.

Here's the data page:
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/cov ... e#epicurve

Silver lining on that one, no more December conferences of 6000 attendees, reached by the usual plane flights packed with coughing people. I got sick at each and every one of those and always ended up nursing a nasty cold/sinus infection while living in a hotel room and having to give talks at all hours of the day, then being reliably sick for the holidays and well into January. I will grant that one type of lockdown IS effective: not packing hundreds or thousands of people into poorly ventilated indoor spaces for hours/days on end. We all knew that quite well before COVID, but we did it anyway because, well, don't be a weenie. Now, everyone gets to be a weenie.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Dieter » Tue May 11, 2021 8:54 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 5:06 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 4:30 pm
Tortoise wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 4:22 pm
Covid liability shield laws would pretty quickly put an end to the corporate CYA inertia, but unfortunately it seems like most state governments aren't pursuing that approach.
Any thoughts on why that is?
Actually, it looks like I was mistaken. According to the summary on this site, most US states have passed some form of Covid liability shield legislation or are in the process of doing so. Promising trend. It looks like there's a lot of state-to-state variation in those laws, though.

It's possible that some of the big corporations plan to keep their mask and distancing restrictions in place until a certain threshold number of states they operate in pass Covid liability shield laws. Not sure.
It is SOO safe that we need to have this extra protection if it's not actually safe

At least, that's how I read those shield laws
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by D1984 » Tue May 11, 2021 9:13 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 5:15 pm
"So to an extent, it does kind of seem to be a "corporate thing". Probably because corporations have deeper pockets, bigger targets painted on their backs, and bigger legal teams who get paid to worry about worst-case legal scenarios."

this is the secondary issue. The primary issue is that corporate boardrooms across America are populated by cultural marxists.

For example, they promote the homosex lifestyle, transgenderism, black lives matter, planned Parenthood....
It could be that corporations' boardrooms are populated by "cultural marxists"......

Or it could be that corporations are just following the money. IIRC a recent (Gallup?) poll showed that only 47% of American adults regularly attended church or religious services of any kind whereas 53% did not. This is the first time--ever--that a majority were in the "not" category. Another Gallup poll from 2018 showed upwards of 60% of Americans--including a majority of self-identified political independents--had favorable views of planned parenthood. Finally, a majority of Americans--especially Americans under 40 or 45--are in favor of gay rights, equality for gays, and legal gay marriage. As such, it makes sense that many corporations would promote liberal/left wing and secular values/lifestyles/causes...if the majority of people believe in that type oi thing then why wouldn't corporations at least act as though they were in favor of it? That's not some sinister evil globalist neoMarxist giant left-wing conspiracy; it's just basic capitalism 101. You want your potential customers to feel that you are "on their side" so as to get them to form a positive view of your company and its products.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by I Shrugged » Tue May 11, 2021 9:31 pm

D1984 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:13 pm
murphy_p_t wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 5:15 pm
"So to an extent, it does kind of seem to be a "corporate thing". Probably because corporations have deeper pockets, bigger targets painted on their backs, and bigger legal teams who get paid to worry about worst-case legal scenarios."

this is the secondary issue. The primary issue is that corporate boardrooms across America are populated by cultural marxists.

For example, they promote the homosex lifestyle, transgenderism, black lives matter, planned Parenthood....
It could be that corporations' boardrooms are populated by "cultural marxists"......

Or it could be that corporations are just following the money. IIRC a recent (Gallup?) poll showed that only 47% of American adults regularly attended church or religious services of any kind whereas 53% did not. This is the first time--ever--that a majority were in the "not" category. Another Gallup poll from 2018 showed upwards of 60% of Americans--including a majority of self-identified political independents--had favorable views of planned parenthood. Finally, a majority of Americans--especially Americans under 40 or 45--are in favor of gay rights, equality for gays, and legal gay marriage. As such, it makes sense that many corporations would promote liberal/left wing and secular values/lifestyles/causes...if the majority of people believe in that type oi thing then why wouldn't corporations at least act as though they were in favor of it? That's not some sinister evil globalist neoMarxist giant left-wing conspiracy; it's just basic capitalism 101. You want your potential customers to feel that you are "on their side" so as to get them to form a positive view of your company and its products.
Only if you don’t want the business of the other side. Which would be crazy.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Xan » Tue May 11, 2021 9:54 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:54 pm
murphy_p_t wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 2:50 pm
I Shrugged wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 9:41 am
The supermarket has their sign up again, so I'm back to complying.
this is probably not a surprise to anyone on this thread, but I studiously ignore those signs and announcements.

Including whem I've had to go to the Post office
Texas has been completely open for a while now. Absolutely no capacity restrictions on restaurants. So of course pretty much every restaurant is open to full capacity. Except for Starbucks. All of the Starbucks in my vicinity (3 to be exact) are still closed to inside dining. You can only go inside to get something to go.

Do you think those decisions are made at corporate in Washington? Or are they local and they are just being lazy by not wanting to deal with inside customers?
I went to renew my drivers license today. I thought 100% for sure that inside that office masks would be required. Nope! No sign, not even one "encouraging" masking. It was great to see.

It may be related to going to an office in Hays County rather than Austin proper.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by D1984 » Tue May 11, 2021 9:55 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:31 pm
D1984 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:13 pm
murphy_p_t wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 5:15 pm
"So to an extent, it does kind of seem to be a "corporate thing". Probably because corporations have deeper pockets, bigger targets painted on their backs, and bigger legal teams who get paid to worry about worst-case legal scenarios."

this is the secondary issue. The primary issue is that corporate boardrooms across America are populated by cultural marxists.

For example, they promote the homosex lifestyle, transgenderism, black lives matter, planned Parenthood....
It could be that corporations' boardrooms are populated by "cultural marxists"......

Or it could be that corporations are just following the money. IIRC a recent (Gallup?) poll showed that only 47% of American adults regularly attended church or religious services of any kind whereas 53% did not. This is the first time--ever--that a majority were in the "not" category. Another Gallup poll from 2018 showed upwards of 60% of Americans--including a majority of self-identified political independents--had favorable views of planned parenthood. Finally, a majority of Americans--especially Americans under 40 or 45--are in favor of gay rights, equality for gays, and legal gay marriage. As such, it makes sense that many corporations would promote liberal/left wing and secular values/lifestyles/causes...if the majority of people believe in that type oi thing then why wouldn't corporations at least act as though they were in favor of it? That's not some sinister evil globalist neoMarxist giant left-wing conspiracy; it's just basic capitalism 101. You want your potential customers to feel that you are "on their side" so as to get them to form a positive view of your company and its products.
Only if you don’t want the business of the other side. Which would be crazy.
I didn't necessarily say it was a good business decision; it may or may not turn out to have been. Only time will tell that. One would presume a corporation would (ideally) try to skew as neutral as possible so as not to offend either side.....BUT....if forced to pick a side (else potentially neither side would want to buy its products....being in the middle here would be just like being in the middle of a battlefield; you are standing right in the line of fire from both sides), a company would at least theoretically go with the side that a majority of its potential customers were on were on (or it it were looking to the future as much as the present, that a majority of its potential future customers were on.....as the younger Millennials and older Zoomers grow into their peak purchasing years companies will be targeting them heavily and if the numbers are to be believed these people skew rather heavily socially liberal).
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Tue May 11, 2021 10:48 pm

Xan wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:54 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:54 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 2:50 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 9:41 am

The supermarket has their sign up again, so I'm back to complying.


this is probably not a surprise to anyone on this thread, but I studiously ignore those signs and announcements.

Including whem I've had to go to the Post office


Texas has been completely open for a while now. Absolutely no capacity restrictions on restaurants. So of course pretty much every restaurant is open to full capacity. Except for Starbucks. All of the Starbucks in my vicinity (3 to be exact) are still closed to inside dining. You can only go inside to get something to go.

Do you think those decisions are made at corporate in Washington? Or are they local and they are just being lazy by not wanting to deal with inside customers?


I went to renew my drivers license today. I thought 100% for sure that inside that office masks would be required. Nope! No sign, not even one "encouraging" masking. It was great to see.

It may be related to going to an office in Hays County rather than Austin proper.


We are seeing changes in "liberal" Massachusetts regarding wearing of masks.

According to our softball league guidelines we need to wear masks while playing. I've not enjoyed doing so during our last month of practices.

However, Massachusetts just came out with this which liberates softball from having to wear a mask.

Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (56.87 KiB) Viewed 3397 times


I sent it on to the Town Recreation Department for our league to see if our guidelines will correspondingly get changed. Tomorrow night is our first game.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Tue May 11, 2021 10:50 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 5:15 pm

For example, they promote the homosex lifestyle, transgenderism, black lives matter, planned Parenthood....
Damn, not only are they trying to force the vaccine on me they are trying to make me homosexual too? And if I'm not homosexual, trying to get me to abort my babies? Is there an emoticon with completely white eyeballs because my eyes have rolled all the way back?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by flyingpylon » Wed May 12, 2021 8:58 am

Excellent but long article:

Origin of Covid - Following the Clues

"Did people or nature open Pandora’s box at Wuhan?"
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pp4me » Wed May 12, 2021 9:30 am

A interesting study, apparently performed by MIT researchers, about COVID skeptics. Contains a link to the pdf so you can read it yourself but here is the first part.....

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1391 ... 77760.html
MIT researchers 'infiltrated' a Covid skeptics community a few months ago and found that skeptics place a high premium on data analysis and empiricism.

"Most fundamentally, the groups we studied believe that science is a process, and not an institution."
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