Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:04 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:45 pm

It is similar in nature to this experiment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6kWygqR0L8
Wow. I can guarantee you my reaction after the second beep would be to ask someone, what are you doing, and if there was no good answer, no way am I standing up! They must have specifically looked for very low self confidence people, I think.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by WiseOne » Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:33 am

Ah. I wonder if it's one of those new variants - the existing vaccines are bound to have limited protection against those. They weren't designed for them.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by whatchamacallit » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:08 pm

I hope this doesn't turn out like flu vaccine where you can't tell if it really does anything.

My favorite statistic for flu vaccine.
Immunized workers who do catch the flu return to work half a day sooner on average
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by WiseOne » Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:22 pm

whatchamacallit wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:08 pm
I hope this doesn't turn out like flu vaccine where you can't tell if it really does anything.

My favorite statistic for flu vaccine.
Immunized workers who do catch the flu return to work half a day sooner on average
Well, the flu vaccine is about trying to predict next year's dominant flu strain, which can change a lot. That's much harder than the situation with COVID, where the pharmaceutical companies had the viral target right under their noses. COVID seems to be changing antigens as well, but apparently not as quickly or as much.

The data from the vaccines tested in countries in which new variants were active suggested efficacy (with cases defined using a more stringent criterion than, say, the press uses) closer to 60% than 90%. So I'd guess at the end of the day the vaccine will be around 50-60% effective, no matter which one you get and how many doses. That's a big reason why I think the lockdowns and mask mandates have no end in sight (at least in blue states).
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jalanlong » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:32 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:22 pm
whatchamacallit wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:08 pm
I hope this doesn't turn out like flu vaccine where you can't tell if it really does anything.

My favorite statistic for flu vaccine.
Immunized workers who do catch the flu return to work half a day sooner on average
Well, the flu vaccine is about trying to predict next year's dominant flu strain, which can change a lot. That's much harder than the situation with COVID, where the pharmaceutical companies had the viral target right under their noses. COVID seems to be changing antigens as well, but apparently not as quickly or as much.

The data from the vaccines tested in countries in which new variants were active suggested efficacy (with cases defined using a more stringent criterion than, say, the press uses) closer to 60% than 90%. So I'd guess at the end of the day the vaccine will be around 50-60% effective, no matter which one you get and how many doses. That's a big reason why I think the lockdowns and mask mandates have no end in sight (at least in blue states).
Is there still an appetite (even in Blue states) for lockdowns? Even though there are still a small amount of Nervous Nellies (or should it be Shutdown Sallies) here, I cannot imagine any Covid scenario that would bring back lockdowns in Texas. Now if the "cases" get really high next winter there will be talk about concerts, sporting event limitations etc but I don't forsee us every going back to mandatory shutdowns again. The appetite for it among politicians and the citizens is just not there any more.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jalanlong » Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:15 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:29 pm
I believe Gretchen Whitmer thinks otherwise.
She might be changing:

https://mises.org/wire/not-even-gretche ... dNmqDrFP1w

https://news.yahoo.com/gretchen-whitmer ... 20617.html
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by mathjak107 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:14 pm

All I can say is my wife has been taking D3 tablets for a long time ..we have been gym rats for 20 years and do cardio and weights 5 out of 7 days ..we eat well .we are religious about our workouts .

We can count on no more than two fingers the number of times we get sick a year .

We both got bad covid and were hospitalized.

I have never been in a hospital in my life until covid.

In my opinion it all is about the amount of viral load you get and the age curve ..

Perhaps some of us have seen similar virus proteins in the past , we might have memory cells that develop our immunity to a particular virus better than others so we either don’t get it or get a mild to asymptomatic case .

From a taking care of yourself perspective we found it to mean littlest far as not getting covid or even getting it pretty bad ....yeah we may have gotten it worse and of course ended up in icu if we didn’t do the things we do for the last 20 years ,but from an avoiding serious covid I have to say meh, we BOTH still got hospitalized for weeks despite vitamin d , and working out for decades
Last edited by mathjak107 on Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by glennds » Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:42 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:37 pm

I can see some future situations where I actually probably would wear a mask, just because we've gotten used to it, and it could provide a benefit.

--Visiting a doctor's office or hospital
--On an airplane or train
What you're saying is very much the norm in many Asian countries. Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam. I saw less of it in Thailand. This is years, even decades before Covid.

I once read an newspaper article in Tokyo about the top five reasons people where masks. In order they were:
1. Protect other people from your germs out of courtesy, especially if you know you are sick
2. Reduce seasonal allergies and pollution
3. Protect yourself from other people's germs
4. (For women) Be able to get out of the house without make-up for commuting and put it on at work
5. Beliefs rooted in Taoism related to Qi and Feng, keeping in positive energy and keeping out negative energy

Consolation prize for #6 - Carryover from prior pandemics like 1918 and later outbreaks like SARS where people adopted the habit of masks permanently or semi-permanently.

A friend of mine traveled to Europe with her two kids this past summer to visit family. They were on several flights along the way, and their practice was to double mask the whole time (this is pre-vaccine). She thought it was an inconvenience for sure but told me this was the first family trip where nobody got sick with the sniffles, cold, cough or anything. So she's now a believer in wearing a mask on long flights.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by WiseOne » Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:22 am

jalanlong wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:32 pm
The appetite for it among politicians and the citizens is just not there any more.
Unfortunately that's not the case....

COVID cases in NY (real cases, not "positive tests") are now minimal, and have been for quite some time. And, most older adults who want to be vaccinated have been. But, many of my neighbors are still terrified of human contact, and are voluntary still in lockdown. I went and knocked on a neighbor's door the other day to borrow something. I used to spend a lot of time with them, but this is the first time we've managed to talk face to face for a year. I could tell she was uncomfortable so I kept that magical 6 foot distance. Even though we've both been vaccinated. What will make her willing to, say, have dinner or a beer together like we used to, I have no idea. And believe me, she is not atypical.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by barrett » Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:07 am

WiseOne wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:22 am
jalanlong wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:32 pm
The appetite for it among politicians and the citizens is just not there any more.
Unfortunately that's not the case....

COVID cases in NY (real cases, not "positive tests") are now minimal, and have been for quite some time. And, most older adults who want to be vaccinated have been. But, many of my neighbors are still terrified of human contact, and are voluntary still in lockdown. I went and knocked on a neighbor's door the other day to borrow something. I used to spend a lot of time with them, but this is the first time we've managed to talk face to face for a year. I could tell she was uncomfortable so I kept that magical 6 foot distance. Even though we've both been vaccinated. What will make her willing to, say, have dinner or a beer together like we used to, I have no idea. And believe me, she is not atypical.
It seems to me from my limited time in NYC recently that New Yorkers (the city dwellers) might not be representative of much of the rest of the country. In NYC I see a very high percentage of people masked up when riding bikes or jogging. Our daughter told us last night that when she goes running maskless in Brooklyn, people give her a wide berth. People's brains just seem to have a hard time rewiring themselves but it does seem worse in the city.

Here in CT (we are in the central part of the state) where we have had a fairly similar rate of Covid-related deaths, life seems to be getting back to normal more quickly. Edicts from the governor have morphed into "recommendations". Restaurants are at full capacity although many still haven't dropped the charade of essentially asking that customers mask up during the 30 feet of walking from the entrance to their tables.

It's all uneven to be sure. I passed a group of seven or eight young hikers on the Appalachian Trail the other day. They donned their masks in unison, turned their backs to me and seemed to hold their collective breath until I had "safely" passed. Very strange out in the middle of the woods surrounded by fresh air.

Anyway, I'm not at all saying that life is back to normal here. I just think that NYC might be something of an outlier in being so slow to adapt to changing realities. I do wonder how much of that behavior is just human instinct due to NYC having such high population density.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jalanlong » Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:39 am

WiseOne wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:22 am
jalanlong wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:32 pm
The appetite for it among politicians and the citizens is just not there any more.
Unfortunately that's not the case....

COVID cases in NY (real cases, not "positive tests") are now minimal, and have been for quite some time. And, most older adults who want to be vaccinated have been. But, many of my neighbors are still terrified of human contact, and are voluntary still in lockdown. I went and knocked on a neighbor's door the other day to borrow something. I used to spend a lot of time with them, but this is the first time we've managed to talk face to face for a year. I could tell she was uncomfortable so I kept that magical 6 foot distance. Even though we've both been vaccinated. What will make her willing to, say, have dinner or a beer together like we used to, I have no idea. And believe me, she is not atypical.
For my state, I just don’t believe Texas is in the mood for lockdowns again no matter how high “cases” might get. Certainly politicians here (with a few exceptions of Big City Mayors) have no desire to do them again.

I have seen lots of places here take down their mask signs or alter them to “city recommends” and in those places its about 50/50 if people are wearing them. I see lots of people in businesses now either not wearing a mask or only putting it on when a customer comes up. Also, it has been several months since people obviously backed away from me to keep social distance when we had to interact. And i no longer see cashiers using hand sanitizer after every credit card they touch! That uber-hysteria seems to be over.

For people like WiseOne’s neighbor, are they really preparing to spend the rest of their lives hidden away? Have they thought it through as to the quality of life they are losing each day they self-quarantine for years on end?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:50 am

Regarding the millions of people who think like WiseOne's neighbor.... How can you help these people escape 12 plus months of full spectrum propaganda? How do you help someone escape a mind control cult?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:52 am

Happily for the vaccine manufacturers, they have their liability shields.

(Breastfeeding baby dies after mother receives second injection)

https://mobile.twitter.com/alexberenson ... 0587315202
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Mon May 03, 2021 12:43 am

https://nonvenipacem.com/2021/04/27/143 ... deathvaxx/

Faces and names of victims of (the non-stop propaganda and ) the experimental injection.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by WiseOne » Mon May 03, 2021 9:03 am

I think the argument is that more of the people who took the vaccine would have died if they hadn't got it.

I have to say though, there are a lot of young faces in this group....with an attendance extremely low risk for COVID death.

I heard about a family member of a friend who developed kidney failure at the time of getting the vaccine - it started abruptly about a week after the first shot, then got much worse after the second shot. The person is now on dialysis and in the hospital for the last 2 months now. Not a good prognosis. This person however was a poster child for high COVID risk: pre-existing diabetes and heart disease.

The takeaway from that, for me, is that you can do a lot to minimize your risk by getting only one shot. It is beyond my comprehension why the insistence on two shots, now that there is solid data that the 2nd shot adds no benefit to the first. This goes double for anyone who had a serious reaction to the first shot. My mother experienced a 2 month cognitive decline after the first shot and is only now recovering. She will not get a second one, in fact medically she should be considered to have a contraindication for that 2nd shot. The degree of COVID hysteria we are living with, though, makes it difficult for people to understand these nuances.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Mountaineer » Mon May 03, 2021 9:16 am

FYI in case you have not seen the study:


Consider a Well-Mixed Room

The prestigious boys at M.I.T. have done the honest man a favor by publishing the results of a new study which emphatically clears the air about COVID / SARS-2 status and prevention as an aerosol-style virus.

Let's begin with some of their research:

On second thought, let's sum up: if you are in a confined space with a sick person, no amount of masking or social distancing will prevent viral overload of the average person's immune system over extended lengths of time.

Here's another synonymous take: if you need to run in and out of a building in which there is a sick person, wearing a mask might prevent viral overload if you are not in there more than a few minutes. But this is anything but certain. In the other direction, wearing a mask in a room with a sick person for an extended time only makes you get sick more uncomfortably.

Or, how about this valid take away: the only way to stop the spread of COVID / SARS-2 at your local church is to never meet again. One could also send all obviously sick people home, but just like masks and vaccines, this only mitigates risk. It does not remove it.

Here is one more not to miss: six feet, schmix feet. It's a joke. This isn't ebola.

The best cure for not getting fooled is too often getting fooled once and taking firm note.

The best cure for not being a fool is drinking from a pure font.

Till angel cry and trumpet sound,
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Mon May 03, 2021 11:03 am

murphy_p_t wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:43 am
https://nonvenipacem.com/2021/04/27/143 ... deathvaxx/

Faces and names of victims of (the non-stop propaganda and ) the experimental injection.
I will not dispute the possibility that the vaccine played a part in some of these deaths.

It does seem these articles on deaths were worldwide. And you have to assume some non-zero percent of them were going to die anyway, that's just life, right?

So, there have been over a billion shots given so far. Pretty sure I don't need to do the math of 136 divided by over a billion.

If you want a comparison, here's measles. Did the vaccine kill some? Quite possibly. Did the vaccine save a shitload more? Most definitely.

Image
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by glennds » Mon May 03, 2021 11:25 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:03 am
murphy_p_t wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:43 am
https://nonvenipacem.com/2021/04/27/143 ... deathvaxx/

Faces and names of victims of (the non-stop propaganda and ) the experimental injection.
I will not dispute the possibility that the vaccine played a part in some of these deaths.

It does seem these articles on deaths were worldwide. And you have to assume some non-zero percent of them were going to die anyway, that's just life, right?

So, there have been over a billion shots given so far. Pretty sure I don't need to do the math of 136 divided by over a billion.

If you want a comparison, here's measles. Did the vaccine kill some? Quite possibly. Did the vaccine save a shitload more? Most definitely.

Image
A vaccine skeptic wishing to push a certain narrative might use a graphic like that to simply say the measles vaccine kills more people than measles.
Therein lies the problem. When pointing to the adverse cases of vaccine recipients, it is considerably more difficult to crosswalk to the benefits. Especially if one were to believe that COVID is overblown or a hoax of some sort.

Most physicians I know consider vaccines to be the single most successful area of medicine. Every vaccine was experimental at some point. The word "experimental" is yet another exercise in semantics. For some it simply refers to the regulatory process relative to the FDA. To others it conjures up images of Dr. Frankenstein or some other ad hoc medical experiment being imposed on human guinea pigs.

Reminds me of the genius of Grover Norquist who, when he ran into all sorts of public opposition to his effort to reduce estate tax, came up with the alternate name of "death tax" and instantly obtained lots of public support.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Mon May 03, 2021 5:00 pm

"So, there have been over a billion shots given so far. Pretty sure I don't need to do the math of 136 divided by over a billion."

I think you are misrepresenting what the point of that report is about in that it represents the total number of those injured and maimed.

Is it your view that the death and injury rate for the Wuhan injections is comparable to any other FDA approved drug or vaccine?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Mon May 03, 2021 7:31 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 5:00 pm

Is it your view that the death and injury rate for the Wuhan injections is comparable to any other FDA approved drug or vaccine?
I don't have numbers in front of me, but given the 1 minute drug commercials where 30 seconds of the ads, literally talk about all the side effects, most up to and including death, I would think the vaccine death rate pales in comparison.

Happy to be proven wrong.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue May 04, 2021 4:47 am

Do you guys really give a shit either way, or are you just having fun arguing? We're at the point where anyone who wants to get vaccinated can, and anyone who doesn't has had the time and information to make their choice.

Whichever side of the fence you're on, it would seem that both sides should agree that there's no good reason to keep the pandemic going.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by flyingpylon » Tue May 04, 2021 7:01 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 4:47 am
Do you guys really give a shit either way, or are you just having fun arguing? We're at the point where anyone who wants to get vaccinated can, and anyone who doesn't has had the time and information to make their choice.

Whichever side of the fence you're on, it would seem that both sides should agree that there's no good reason to keep the pandemic going.
At this point it's just like everything else people argue about and it's highly unlikely either side will be swayed.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue May 04, 2021 7:47 am

The science is not settled.

Evidence, studies, and the Socratic method are helpful for truth seekers.

Results of this study did not surprise me.

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2021/05/gene ... riors.html
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Tue May 04, 2021 8:47 am

Kriegs, you are absolutely right.

I am only arguing about the math -- that it is a given, with almost ANY vaccine or medicine, there will be side effects, up to and including death. There is no zero risk world, both related to Covid itself and the vaccine. Everyone needs to weigh their own feelings and decide yes or no. As you all know, I do not get the flu shot. I got the Covid shot, well, just because I want to NOT give a shit about it anymore. Valid reason to me.

I just am tired of the argument that shows hey, here are these dead people, and hey, they died within hours or days of the vaccine, so it must have been the vaccine. But, well, the percentage, even if every one of those did die from the vaccine, is around .0000136%.

And people do need to weigh that against the number of people who did not die because the vaccine prevented a severe case, which is many magnitudes higher, according to those "nefarious" drug companies and the CDC.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by WiseOne » Tue May 04, 2021 9:15 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 4:47 am
Whichever side of the fence you're on, it would seem that both sides should agree that there's no good reason to keep the pandemic going.
You would think that would be the case. Unfortunately there are two reasons I can see why the pandemic will not be off the radar anytime soon.

1) Over-testing, and the medically unprecedented definition of a case as a positive test, even in the absence of compatible symptoms.

2) The fact that a small percentage of vaccinated people can still get COVID. I believe the rate of cases is 0.08% among the vaccinated population, and the CDC has publicly declared that this rate is not acceptable. And, that vaccinated individuals who are infected can still spread the virus. Thus, even if 100% of the population were to take the vaccine, per the CDC's current position we would still have to continue social distancing, mask wearing and all the rest of it - with no end in sight.

That's why the only way this pandemic will end is when enough people, state governments and businesses take matters into their own hands and decide to move on. Texas and Florida are leading the way, and let's hope that more states will follow suit.

I imagine some people will hold on to their COVID hysteria for a long time, regardless. I'm also wondering whether mask wearing in public will become a new social requirement. If that's true where you live (I'm pretty sure it will be here in NYC), you might want to check out Freedom Face Covers on Etsy. They will provide the necessary psychological band-aid while minimizing discomfort for the wearer.
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