Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

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jalanlong
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jalanlong » Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:39 am

sophie wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:22 am
jalanlong wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:32 pm
The appetite for it among politicians and the citizens is just not there any more.
Unfortunately that's not the case....

COVID cases in NY (real cases, not "positive tests") are now minimal, and have been for quite some time. And, most older adults who want to be vaccinated have been. But, many of my neighbors are still terrified of human contact, and are voluntary still in lockdown. I went and knocked on a neighbor's door the other day to borrow something. I used to spend a lot of time with them, but this is the first time we've managed to talk face to face for a year. I could tell she was uncomfortable so I kept that magical 6 foot distance. Even though we've both been vaccinated. What will make her willing to, say, have dinner or a beer together like we used to, I have no idea. And believe me, she is not atypical.
For my state, I just don’t believe Texas is in the mood for lockdowns again no matter how high “cases” might get. Certainly politicians here (with a few exceptions of Big City Mayors) have no desire to do them again.

I have seen lots of places here take down their mask signs or alter them to “city recommends” and in those places its about 50/50 if people are wearing them. I see lots of people in businesses now either not wearing a mask or only putting it on when a customer comes up. Also, it has been several months since people obviously backed away from me to keep social distance when we had to interact. And i no longer see cashiers using hand sanitizer after every credit card they touch! That uber-hysteria seems to be over.

For people like Sophie’s neighbor, are they really preparing to spend the rest of their lives hidden away? Have they thought it through as to the quality of life they are losing each day they self-quarantine for years on end?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:50 am

Regarding the millions of people who think like Sophie's neighbor.... How can you help these people escape 12 plus months of full spectrum propaganda? How do you help someone escape a mind control cult?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:52 am

Happily for the vaccine manufacturers, they have their liability shields.

(Breastfeeding baby dies after mother receives second injection)

https://mobile.twitter.com/alexberenson ... 0587315202
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by pugchief » Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:56 am

sophie wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:22 am
many of my neighbors are still terrified of human contact, and are voluntary still in lockdown. I went and knocked on a neighbor's door the other day to borrow something. I used to spend a lot of time with them, but this is the first time we've managed to talk face to face for a year. I could tell she was uncomfortable so I kept that magical 6 foot distance. Even though we've both been vaccinated. What will make her willing to, say, have dinner or a beer together like we used to, I have no idea. And believe me, she is not atypical.
Who cares? If she is neurotic about the situation, that's her choice and her problem, not yours.

That's been my attitude for months now: If you're scared, stay home. If you're comfortable with the risk of being out, you're an adult and that's also your choice. Last year at this time was different, but persisting this nonsense with all we now know is insanity.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Mon May 03, 2021 12:43 am

https://nonvenipacem.com/2021/04/27/143 ... deathvaxx/

Faces and names of victims of (the non-stop propaganda and ) the experimental injection.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by sophie » Mon May 03, 2021 9:03 am

I think the argument is that more of the people who took the vaccine would have died if they hadn't got it.

I have to say though, there are a lot of young faces in this group....with an attendance extremely low risk for COVID death.

I heard about a family member of a friend who developed kidney failure at the time of getting the vaccine - it started abruptly about a week after the first shot, then got much worse after the second shot. The person is now on dialysis and in the hospital for the last 2 months now. Not a good prognosis. This person however was a poster child for high COVID risk: pre-existing diabetes and heart disease.

The takeaway from that, for me, is that you can do a lot to minimize your risk by getting only one shot. It is beyond my comprehension why the insistence on two shots, now that there is solid data that the 2nd shot adds no benefit to the first. This goes double for anyone who had a serious reaction to the first shot. My mother experienced a 2 month cognitive decline after the first shot and is only now recovering. She will not get a second one, in fact medically she should be considered to have a contraindication for that 2nd shot. The degree of COVID hysteria we are living with, though, makes it difficult for people to understand these nuances.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Mountaineer » Mon May 03, 2021 9:16 am

FYI in case you have not seen the study:


Consider a Well-Mixed Room

The prestigious boys at M.I.T. have done the honest man a favor by publishing the results of a new study which emphatically clears the air about COVID / SARS-2 status and prevention as an aerosol-style virus.

Let's begin with some of their research:

On second thought, let's sum up: if you are in a confined space with a sick person, no amount of masking or social distancing will prevent viral overload of the average person's immune system over extended lengths of time.

Here's another synonymous take: if you need to run in and out of a building in which there is a sick person, wearing a mask might prevent viral overload if you are not in there more than a few minutes. But this is anything but certain. In the other direction, wearing a mask in a room with a sick person for an extended time only makes you get sick more uncomfortably.

Or, how about this valid take away: the only way to stop the spread of COVID / SARS-2 at your local church is to never meet again. One could also send all obviously sick people home, but just like masks and vaccines, this only mitigates risk. It does not remove it.

Here is one more not to miss: six feet, schmix feet. It's a joke. This isn't ebola.

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The best cure for not being a fool is drinking from a pure font.

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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Mon May 03, 2021 11:03 am

murphy_p_t wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:43 am
https://nonvenipacem.com/2021/04/27/143 ... deathvaxx/

Faces and names of victims of (the non-stop propaganda and ) the experimental injection.
I will not dispute the possibility that the vaccine played a part in some of these deaths.

It does seem these articles on deaths were worldwide. And you have to assume some non-zero percent of them were going to die anyway, that's just life, right?

So, there have been over a billion shots given so far. Pretty sure I don't need to do the math of 136 divided by over a billion.

If you want a comparison, here's measles. Did the vaccine kill some? Quite possibly. Did the vaccine save a shitload more? Most definitely.

Image
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by glennds » Mon May 03, 2021 11:25 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:03 am
murphy_p_t wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:43 am
https://nonvenipacem.com/2021/04/27/143 ... deathvaxx/

Faces and names of victims of (the non-stop propaganda and ) the experimental injection.
I will not dispute the possibility that the vaccine played a part in some of these deaths.

It does seem these articles on deaths were worldwide. And you have to assume some non-zero percent of them were going to die anyway, that's just life, right?

So, there have been over a billion shots given so far. Pretty sure I don't need to do the math of 136 divided by over a billion.

If you want a comparison, here's measles. Did the vaccine kill some? Quite possibly. Did the vaccine save a shitload more? Most definitely.

Image
A vaccine skeptic wishing to push a certain narrative might use a graphic like that to simply say the measles vaccine kills more people than measles.
Therein lies the problem. When pointing to the adverse cases of vaccine recipients, it is considerably more difficult to crosswalk to the benefits. Especially if one were to believe that COVID is overblown or a hoax of some sort.

Most physicians I know consider vaccines to be the single most successful area of medicine. Every vaccine was experimental at some point. The word "experimental" is yet another exercise in semantics. For some it simply refers to the regulatory process relative to the FDA. To others it conjures up images of Dr. Frankenstein or some other ad hoc medical experiment being imposed on human guinea pigs.

Reminds me of the genius of Grover Norquist who, when he ran into all sorts of public opposition to his effort to reduce estate tax, came up with the alternate name of "death tax" and instantly obtained lots of public support.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Mon May 03, 2021 5:00 pm

"So, there have been over a billion shots given so far. Pretty sure I don't need to do the math of 136 divided by over a billion."

I think you are misrepresenting what the point of that report is about in that it represents the total number of those injured and maimed.

Is it your view that the death and injury rate for the Wuhan injections is comparable to any other FDA approved drug or vaccine?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Mon May 03, 2021 7:31 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 5:00 pm

Is it your view that the death and injury rate for the Wuhan injections is comparable to any other FDA approved drug or vaccine?
I don't have numbers in front of me, but given the 1 minute drug commercials where 30 seconds of the ads, literally talk about all the side effects, most up to and including death, I would think the vaccine death rate pales in comparison.

Happy to be proven wrong.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue May 04, 2021 4:47 am

Do you guys really give a shit either way, or are you just having fun arguing? We're at the point where anyone who wants to get vaccinated can, and anyone who doesn't has had the time and information to make their choice.

Whichever side of the fence you're on, it would seem that both sides should agree that there's no good reason to keep the pandemic going.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by flyingpylon » Tue May 04, 2021 7:01 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 4:47 am
Do you guys really give a shit either way, or are you just having fun arguing? We're at the point where anyone who wants to get vaccinated can, and anyone who doesn't has had the time and information to make their choice.

Whichever side of the fence you're on, it would seem that both sides should agree that there's no good reason to keep the pandemic going.
At this point it's just like everything else people argue about and it's highly unlikely either side will be swayed.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue May 04, 2021 7:47 am

The science is not settled.

Evidence, studies, and the Socratic method are helpful for truth seekers.

Results of this study did not surprise me.

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2021/05/gene ... riors.html
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Tue May 04, 2021 8:47 am

Kriegs, you are absolutely right.

I am only arguing about the math -- that it is a given, with almost ANY vaccine or medicine, there will be side effects, up to and including death. There is no zero risk world, both related to Covid itself and the vaccine. Everyone needs to weigh their own feelings and decide yes or no. As you all know, I do not get the flu shot. I got the Covid shot, well, just because I want to NOT give a shit about it anymore. Valid reason to me.

I just am tired of the argument that shows hey, here are these dead people, and hey, they died within hours or days of the vaccine, so it must have been the vaccine. But, well, the percentage, even if every one of those did die from the vaccine, is around .0000136%.

And people do need to weigh that against the number of people who did not die because the vaccine prevented a severe case, which is many magnitudes higher, according to those "nefarious" drug companies and the CDC.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by sophie » Tue May 04, 2021 9:15 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 4:47 am
Whichever side of the fence you're on, it would seem that both sides should agree that there's no good reason to keep the pandemic going.
You would think that would be the case. Unfortunately there are two reasons I can see why the pandemic will not be off the radar anytime soon.

1) Over-testing, and the medically unprecedented definition of a case as a positive test, even in the absence of compatible symptoms.

2) The fact that a small percentage of vaccinated people can still get COVID. I believe the rate of cases is 0.08% among the vaccinated population, and the CDC has publicly declared that this rate is not acceptable. And, that vaccinated individuals who are infected can still spread the virus. Thus, even if 100% of the population were to take the vaccine, per the CDC's current position we would still have to continue social distancing, mask wearing and all the rest of it - with no end in sight.

That's why the only way this pandemic will end is when enough people, state governments and businesses take matters into their own hands and decide to move on. Texas and Florida are leading the way, and let's hope that more states will follow suit.

I imagine some people will hold on to their COVID hysteria for a long time, regardless. I'm also wondering whether mask wearing in public will become a new social requirement. If that's true where you live (I'm pretty sure it will be here in NYC), you might want to check out Freedom Face Covers on Etsy. They will provide the necessary psychological band-aid while minimizing discomfort for the wearer.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue May 04, 2021 9:28 am

"I imagine some people will hold on to their COVID hysteria for a long time, regardless. "


Agreed. Changing the way cases are identified and tallied should be a major clue.

Submission to fear of the virus is a state-imposed cult. In the same way that worshiping the deities of your locale in the ancient world was mandated by the authorities.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Tue May 04, 2021 9:45 am

I am seeing/feeling things change here in IL.

I will use myself as an example. We were already getting burned out and meeting as a family even before vaccinations. We were already giving hugs. I have actually had a number of salespeople in the office for the first time in >1 year. And we shook hands!

We have gone out to eat. Inside. Multiple times. We have seen a play at the high school which was well attended (yeah, masks still). We get almost near daily "Covid case" reported emails from the high school but nobody seems to care anymore.

I do not understand the thinking of this being a power play / power trip for people, like say, Gov Pritzker in IL. What, does he get out of bed in the morning and devilishly rub his hands together and wonder how he can fuck the residents of Illinois today? I don't think so. Every day we spend further in these levels of restrictions is less revenue to the state.

For sure, I still see and comment to my wife about people who walk around the neighborhood (alone) wearing a mask, like who are they protecting? But for every one of those there are a lot more who are long done with this.

I am pretty confident that very soon, those who thought the government was going to keep us locked down forever will need to find another argument.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue May 04, 2021 9:50 am

"2 weeks to flatten the curve"

Going on 14, 15 months

" am pretty confident that very soon, ..."


Would you like to specify what do you have in mind by the phrase " very soon"?

Days, weeks, months, decades?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Tue May 04, 2021 10:17 am

People are allowed to adjust opinions and strategies in a fast moving global situation. I have no answer for you on exact timeline. If you are still hung up on how it didn't just take two weeks and done, you'll never be satisfied. Everyone got that wrong.

Just a gut feeling and a noticing on how people's attitudes have, for the most part, changed is why I say very soon.

Very soon to me means by around 4th of July / mid-summer.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Lonestar » Tue May 04, 2021 10:29 am

sophie wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:15 am



I'm also wondering whether mask wearing in public will become a new social requirement. If that's true where you live (I'm pretty sure it will be here in NYC), you might want to check out Freedom Face Covers on Etsy. They will provide the necessary psychological band-aid while minimizing discomfort for the wearer.

I certainly hope it doesn't!

However, one positive thing that has come out of this is that if an individual want's to wear a mask for a particular reason, they will not stand out in a crowd. In the past, when I travel by airlines in the winter, it seemed I always ended up with a URTI. Now I can wear a mask and hopefully prevent an infection without folks wondering what "terminal disease" I have.

On a second note, I don't remember the polio vaccine being controversial, or taking on a political divisive position. I can't help but wonder if there had been a fair amount of the population refusing the vaccine would we would have eradicated the disease.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by pugchief » Tue May 04, 2021 12:55 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:45 am

I do not understand the thinking of this being a power play / power trip for people, like say, Gov Pritzker in IL. What, does he get out of bed in the morning and devilishly rub his hands together and wonder how he can fuck the residents of Illinois today?
You can't be serious. Literally EVERY. SINGLE. THING. he has done since taking office has had the effect of screwing the residents of IL. You can argue that it was not the stated goal, but not that it hasn't made us all need to go out and buy a gallon of lube. My opinion is that all of the decisions are indeed to reward his supporters (public sector unions, trial lawyers, etc) so that he stays in power. Just like Madigan.


Cortopassi wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:45 am
I don't think so. Every day we spend further in these levels of restrictions is less revenue to the state.
Seriously, this is the part that baffles me. Even stupid, selfish politicians should be able to grasp this one.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jalanlong » Tue May 04, 2021 1:09 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:17 am
People are allowed to adjust opinions and strategies in a fast moving global situation. I have no answer for you on exact timeline. If you are still hung up on how it didn't just take two weeks and done, you'll never be satisfied. Everyone got that wrong.

Just a gut feeling and a noticing on how people's attitudes have, for the most part, changed is why I say very soon.

Very soon to me means by around 4th of July / mid-summer.
And what if this summer is a lull before another fall/winter "case" spike? I have already seen several articles in the last week or so starting to warn people about the coming resurgence this fall. Even if you believe things will open up a bit in the summer, what makes you think politicians and citizenry will not be scared back into their homes next fall and winter with the latest variants etc?

Not that Facebook is completely indicative of the general public but on a ABC news post about Biden's visit to a school yesterday, I saw many, many people comment that its too soon to open schools. The number of those against opening schools seemed to at least be equal to the comments supporting schools being open. When someone asked the "close" people when exactly would be a good time they said they have no idea but not now and not until the virus is "gone." One person said she had not gone out of her home since March of 2020 but was disgusted that her roommate went out for the first time a month ago and now has come down with Covid. She stated the only way to get past this is for everyone to stop mingling with anyone outside of their household indefinitely. And she was being dead serious.

As long as there are a significant number of people like that then I dont think this is going to go completely away for some time.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Tue May 04, 2021 1:55 pm

Jalanlong,

No one except outliers has the appetite for doing this again. No way. I will bet money on it. Worst case, there is a booster shot/pill to placate everyone that they are protected. If someone is still an outlier come fall and still has an issue with opening schools, they will be in the minority. And likely ostracized. My opinion.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by I Shrugged » Tue May 04, 2021 2:27 pm

Back when Pritzger's daily Covid news conference was live TV, he looked absolutely gleeful and glowing. Very animated. He was loving it. Did either of you two pick up on that?
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