Breaking News, Politics version

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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by glennds » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:20 am

Xan wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:47 am
I believe the conclusion is that it isn't worth it to try to force him out, and that he should (but probably won't) resign on his own.
There was some interesting discussion on CNN this morning between David Gergen and former Congressman Mike Rogers. The upshot was that we ought to let President elect Biden take the lead because he owns this mess after January 20th. Biden has no appetite for punishing Trump right now, and rightly so. As much as tempers and outrage are calling for punishment of some type, doing so would just further inflame an already very bad situation.

The better thing to do might be a vote of censure in Congress, which would probably pass pretty easily. Pence could call a cabinet meeting, without necessarily acting on the 25th Amendment per se, but instead signaling that the possibility is there. He'd be sending a signal of reassurance to the national security, military apparatus, and global community in doing so. The threat of embarrassment is probably as good a deterrent as any with a personality like Trump.
It would be a brilliant move for Pence because he shows his leadership and preserves his political career, but there's a hedge because he doesn't actually "do" anything that Trump or his supporters can sink their teeth into. All he would have done was hold a classified cabinet meeting and let everyone else speculate about what was discussed.

These guardrails would probably effectively put a leash on Trump for the next 12 days which is the best least bad alternative. Oh and keeping him cut off from social media would probably also be a good thing.
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by vnatale » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:39 am

90% of input from the public to C-Span today is calling for Trump's impeachment or removal.....

....the host in response to a caller complaint that the host had not been reading anything supporting Trump....


Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:06 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:39 am
90% of input from the public to C-Span today is calling for Trump's impeachment or removal.....

....the host in response to a caller complaint that the host had not been reading anything supporting Trump....
I'm thinking when trying to drain the swamp, there were a lot more swamp things than President Trump realized. Do we need more Adrienne Barbeaus?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084745/

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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by vnatale » Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:11 am

So what is going on with Parler.com?

I entered three straight of the annoying Captcha's and keep getting this in response?

"Internal server error, developers have been notified"

Why do they ever require a Captcha? Neither Facebook or Twitter require one when logging in.

Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by vnatale » Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:07 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:12 pm

vnatale wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:11 am

So what is going on with Parler.com?

I entered three straight of the annoying Captcha's and keep getting this in response?

"Internal server error, developers have been notified"

Why do they ever require a Captcha? Neither Facebook or Twitter require one when logging in.


Parler is probably being hacked by Twitter. Can't have any competition you know.... [/sarcasm]


Or, Parler.com is still at AAA status and not yet Major League? Can you get in?

Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by dualstow » Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:13 pm

Xan wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:47 am
I believe the conclusion is that it isn't worth it to try to force him out, and that he should (but probably won't) resign on his own.
And that democrats definitely suck, too.
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by sophie » Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:54 pm

tomfoolery wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:48 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:20 pm

It's over. Trump is done. I think he's sealed his fate. There will be no 2024 run. At this point, he may not even make it as president to Jan 20, 2021.
I think Trump has an even stronger chance of not only running in 2024 but of actually winning in 2024. Polarization of the populace works both ways.
I think much will depend on what the Democrats do with their two years of total control of the US government. If they push through a lot of inflammatory things like packing the Supreme Court, passing a wealth tax, and throwing the southern border wide open, they will further antagonize the "deplorables" who will once again make their presence known. A more conciliatory approach is less likely in my view, but it is the only way that the half of the country which is justifiably pretty angry right about now will calm down. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

And I wonder if, with four years to plan, right-wing groups can figure out ways to prevent large-scale voter fraud in the next election. All they really have to do is step up surveillance and stay put in the early hours of the morning when the alleged vote dumping occurred.
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by SomeDude » Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:14 pm

sophie wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:54 pm
tomfoolery wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:48 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:20 pm

It's over. Trump is done. I think he's sealed his fate. There will be no 2024 run. At this point, he may not even make it as president to Jan 20, 2021.
I think Trump has an even stronger chance of not only running in 2024 but of actually winning in 2024. Polarization of the populace works both ways.
I think much will depend on what the Democrats do with their two years of total control of the US government. If they push through a lot of inflammatory things like packing the Supreme Court, passing a wealth tax, and throwing the southern border wide open, they will further antagonize the "deplorables" who will once again make their presence known. A more conciliatory approach is less likely in my view, but it is the only way that the half of the country which is justifiably pretty angry right about now will calm down. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

And I wonder if, with four years to plan, right-wing groups can figure out ways to prevent large-scale voter fraud in the next election. All they really have to do is step up surveillance and stay put in the early hours of the morning when the alleged vote dumping occurred.
Is there any historical instance of a completely fraudulent election being followed up by an honest one?

If we couldn't get a real election with Trump as president, we are not getting one with Biden or Harris in. They can literally change hundreds of thousands of votes and no court or Congress will even hear the evidence. They will vote in the middle of the night to hide their crimes like weasels when no one is watching, just like on election day.

No one has ever voted themselves out of tyranny.

This was the last chance at peaceful resolution. The Government has sown the wind and will reap the whirlwind. 40% of the country believes the election was rigged and it's 90% probably of the armed and ex-military. And certainly a large number of the current police and military, just probably not the police in the big cities and certainly not in their leadership.
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by Maddy » Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:15 pm

sophie wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:54 pm
I think Trump has an even stronger chance of not only running in 2024 but of actually winning in 2024. Polarization of the populace works both ways.

I think much will depend on what the Democrats do with their two years of total control of the US government. If they push through a lot of inflammatory things like packing the Supreme Court, passing a wealth tax, and throwing the southern border wide open, they will further antagonize the "deplorables" who will once again make their presence known. A more conciliatory approach is less likely in my view, but it is the only way that the half of the country which is justifiably pretty angry right about now will calm down. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

And I wonder if, with four years to plan, right-wing groups can figure out ways to prevent large-scale voter fraud in the next election. All they really have to do is step up surveillance and stay put in the early hours of the morning when the alleged vote dumping occurred.
I see things a little differently. I do not expect the patriots to back down. This is, in the estimation of an overwhelming portion of the population, a do-or-die moment in history, where you either resist the top-to-bottom corruption in government that culminated in a thoroughly fraudulent election or you resign yourself to the complete and total loss of this country. Take a look at what Lindsay Graham was confronted with while walking through an airport today. https://twitter.com/iheartmindy/status/ ... 43904?s=10 He was spat upon and derided by people screaming that he was a "piece of shit," a "traitor." I'd predict that this is only the beginning, with our without Donald Trump.
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by Xan » Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:21 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:14 pm
This was the last chance at peaceful resolution. The Government has sown the wind and will reap the whirlwind. 40% of the country believes the election was rigged and it's 90% probably of the armed and ex-military. And certainly a large number of the current police and military, just probably not the police in the big cities and certainly not in their leadership.
Citations please? I've seen numbers that say 40% of people believe there was election fraud. Is that net fraud that helped Biden? If that wasn't specifically asked, then the numbers go lower. Is that net fraud that changed the overall outcome? If that wasn't specifically asked, then the numbers go down again. Was it fraud that caused the greatest landslide victory in history to turn into a nail-biting win? Well, if that wasn't asked, then the numbers go down further.

I recommend a little more skepticism in your news. Remember when you believed that 6 or so states had actually sent competing slates of electors to Washington? If you believe that, then it really does make sense for Congress to be debating which ones to accept. You did believe it, then were corrected, but didn't allow the correction to change your views.

When you read something that is explosive, maybe take a little time to think about it, verify it, before inwardly digesting it. That 40% number is NOT a list of people who want to take up arms against the government. There were ZERO states that sent competing electors.
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by pp4me » Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:40 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:06 am
I'm thinking when trying to drain the swamp, there were a lot more swamp things than President Trump realized.
I got this song playin' in my head. Just need to come up with some lyrics to accompany the refrain.....

He fought the swamp and the swamp won
He fought the swamp and the swamp won
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by SomeDude » Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:04 pm

Xan wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:21 pm


Citations please? I've seen numbers that say 40% of people believe there was election fraud. Is that net fraud that helped Biden? If that wasn't specifically asked, then the numbers go lower. Is that net fraud that changed the overall outcome? If that wasn't specifically asked, then the numbers go down again. Was it fraud that caused the greatest landslide victory in history to turn into a nail-biting win? Well, if that wasn't asked, then the numbers go down further.

I recommend a little more skepticism in your news. Remember when you believed that 6 or so states had actually sent competing slates of electors to Washington? If you believe that, then it really does make sense for Congress to be debating which ones to accept. You did believe it, then were corrected, but didn't allow the correction to change your views.

When you read something that is explosive, maybe take a little time to think about it, verify it, before inwardly digesting it. That 40% number is NOT a list of people who want to take up arms against the government. There were ZERO states that sent competing electors.
Here you go on the 40% from NPR, unless they are too inflammatory:

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/30/95109564 ... y-theories

"And one-third of Americans believe that voter fraud helped Joe Biden win the 2020 election, despite the fact that courts, election officials and the Justice Department have found no evidence of widespread fraud that could have changed the outcome."

That's 1/3 which is 33%. You can assume they rounded since they didn't use percentages in the article. I've seen the chart from the last few days, should have come from this NPR poll but I can't find it on their site. Something like 78% of Repubs, 6% of Dems, and 40% of independents which ends up being about 40% of the country since there's allegedly more Dems.

Regarding electors:

https://www.yahoo.com/now/alternative-p ... 55724.html

Quote "Having exhausted all other options, Donald Trump and the die-hard supporters of “Stop the Steal” have settled on the notion of getting Congress to count alternative slates of electors from seven states — Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin — who cast their states’ votes for Trump despite certified popular vote totals showing Trump lost those states.”"

This is from the National Review, a very anti-Trump publication. Is that an inflammatory whatever?

Yes these electors were not certified by their respective secretaries of state, only the Biden electors were. No I do not know if Pence had envelopes with the Trump votes. Reliable information on that detail will probably be impossible to get. If he did, he could certainly say he's got sets of competing electors, and per the constitution the State legislatures need to return to him a verdict on which are legit. PUT THEM TO A VOTE.

He could have also set the votes aside from the obvious fraud states. It doesn't matter what happens after that, if he's "successful" or not. Instead he threw in with the fraud and the enemy of the American people.
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by Tortoise » Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:17 pm

Forty-seven percent (47%) say it’s likely that Democrats stole voters or destroyed pro-Trump ballots in several states to ensure that Joe Biden would win. Forty-nine percent (49%) consider that unlikely. This includes 36% who say voter fraud was Very Likely and 39% who think it was Not At All Likely. These findings are little changed from mid-November.

Sixty-two percent (62%) of Republicans say it’s Very Likely the Democrats stole the election, a view shared by 17% of Democrats and 28% of voters not affiliated with either major party.
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public ... aud_likely
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by Xan » Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:27 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:04 pm
Here you go on the 40% from NPR, unless they are too inflammatory:

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/30/95109564 ... y-theories

"And one-third of Americans believe that voter fraud helped Joe Biden win the 2020 election, despite the fact that courts, election officials and the Justice Department have found no evidence of widespread fraud that could have changed the outcome."
Okay, so we started at 40% who believed there was fraud, now we're down to 33% who believe there was net fraud in the Biden direction. It doesn't say anything about there being sufficient fraud to swing the election, which would be yet a lower number.

SomeDude wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:04 pm
Regarding electors:

https://www.yahoo.com/now/alternative-p ... 55724.html

Quote "Having exhausted all other options, Donald Trump and the die-hard supporters of “Stop the Steal” have settled on the notion of getting Congress to count alternative slates of electors from seven states — Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin — who cast their states’ votes for Trump despite certified popular vote totals showing Trump lost those states.”"

This is from the National Review, a very anti-Trump publication. Is that an inflammatory whatever?
That doesn't say that the slates of electors even exist. It just says what the strategy of the die-hards is. Please make sure you're reading carefully!
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by flyingpylon » Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:30 pm

vnatale wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:03 am
dualstow wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:33 am
dualstow wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:54 am
Does anyone know how many arrests were made?
Seems like not many. I honestly don’t know.
68
40+ police injured in this "mostly peaceful" riot?

Also, if a black person had been so proudly sitting in Nancy Pelosi's chair do you think he would NOT have been arrested as the actual guy who did that has not been arrested and who is bragging about sitting in that chair and not being arrested?

Man Who Posed for Photos at Desk in Pelosi’s Office Arrested
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by dualstow » Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:44 pm

Maddy wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:15 pm
I'd predict that this is only the beginning, with [or] without Donald Trump.
No doubt.
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by SomeDude » Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:49 pm

Xan wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:27 pm
That doesn't say that the slates of electors even exist. It just says what the strategy of the die-hards is. Please make sure you're reading carefully!
https://www.wsj.com/articles/republican ... 1609164000

That's the Wall Street Journal.

https://www.vox.com/22173990/electoral- ... hen-miller

That's Vox. Quote "And Trump’s chosen electors did indeed meet in states including Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Nevada, and Michigan to cast their votes for Trump"

Jesus Christ I'm wasting all my political posts on this. This is the last one. I literally only had to google "alternate electors" and this was the 2nd and 3rd.

You can say that the competing electors were not certified by their secretary's of state, but competing sets of electors for certain states came in.

Bottom line......Pence counted the votes based on fraud, and congress certified them.....fallout is inevitable. Surely they know that, and are looking forward to the fight.
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by Xan » Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:08 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:49 pm
Xan wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:27 pm
That doesn't say that the slates of electors even exist. It just says what the strategy of the die-hards is. Please make sure you're reading carefully!
https://www.wsj.com/articles/republican ... 1609164000

That's the Wall Street Journal.

https://www.vox.com/22173990/electoral- ... hen-miller

That's Vox. Quote "And Trump’s chosen electors did indeed meet in states including Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Nevada, and Michigan to cast their votes for Trump"

Jesus Christ I'm wasting all my political posts on this. This is the last one. I literally only had to google "alternate electors" and this was the 2nd and 3rd.

You can say that the competing electors were not certified by their secretary's of state, but competing sets of electors for certain states came in.

Bottom line......Pence counted the votes based on fraud, and congress certified them.....fallout is inevitable. Surely they know that, and are looking forward to the fight.
"Trump's Chosen Electors"? You don't get to choose your own electors. They weren't just not certified by the secretary of state, they weren't certified by anybody. Just because you claim to be an elector doesn't make you one.
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by SomeDude » Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:23 pm

Xan wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:08 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:49 pm
Xan wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:27 pm
That doesn't say that the slates of electors even exist. It just says what the strategy of the die-hards is. Please make sure you're reading carefully!
https://www.wsj.com/articles/republican ... 1609164000

That's the Wall Street Journal.

https://www.vox.com/22173990/electoral- ... hen-miller

That's Vox. Quote "And Trump’s chosen electors did indeed meet in states including Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Nevada, and Michigan to cast their votes for Trump"

Jesus Christ I'm wasting all my political posts on this. This is the last one. I literally only had to google "alternate electors" and this was the 2nd and 3rd.

You can say that the competing electors were not certified by their secretary's of state, but competing sets of electors for certain states came in.

Bottom line......Pence counted the votes based on fraud, and congress certified them.....fallout is inevitable. Surely they know that, and are looking forward to the fight.
"Trump's Chosen Electors"? You don't get to choose your own electors. They weren't just not certified by the secretary of state, they weren't certified by anybody. Just because you claim to be an elector doesn't make you one.
You are falling for Vox's sophistry. Media outlets use certain words or phrases to manipulate the views of readers. They do it because it works well with a lot of people. It's like when they call the BLM rioters "protestors" then calling the election-fraud protestors "rioters"
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by Xan » Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:01 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:23 pm
Xan wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:08 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:49 pm
Xan wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:27 pm
That doesn't say that the slates of electors even exist. It just says what the strategy of the die-hards is. Please make sure you're reading carefully!
https://www.wsj.com/articles/republican ... 1609164000

That's the Wall Street Journal.

https://www.vox.com/22173990/electoral- ... hen-miller

That's Vox. Quote "And Trump’s chosen electors did indeed meet in states including Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Nevada, and Michigan to cast their votes for Trump"

Jesus Christ I'm wasting all my political posts on this. This is the last one. I literally only had to google "alternate electors" and this was the 2nd and 3rd.

You can say that the competing electors were not certified by their secretary's of state, but competing sets of electors for certain states came in.

Bottom line......Pence counted the votes based on fraud, and congress certified them.....fallout is inevitable. Surely they know that, and are looking forward to the fight.
"Trump's Chosen Electors"? You don't get to choose your own electors. They weren't just not certified by the secretary of state, they weren't certified by anybody. Just because you claim to be an elector doesn't make you one.
You are falling for Vox's sophistry. Media outlets use certain words or phrases to manipulate the views of readers. They do it because it works well with a lot of people. It's like when they call the BLM rioters "protestors" then calling the election-fraud protestors "rioters"
It isn't sophistry. Electors are sent by their states. If you're not sent by the state government then you're not an elector.
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by Maddy » Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:37 pm

Virtually ALL of the widely-followed conservative voices have been disappeared from Twitter. The last purge occurred just a couple of hours ago, which took down another huge swath. Android and Apple users are unable to get access to alternative conservative sites. For all practical purposes, the internet has gone mostly dark for one side of the political divide.

Who would have thought this could happen in America? The husband of a friend, who resides in Germany, expressed astonishment this evening at the complacency of the American public. He said that what's happening here is shudderingly similar to the events of Germany 1930s.

The Left has declared war on the rest of the country. I do not expect this to end well.
Last edited by Maddy on Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by dualstow » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:07 pm

🚸 I moved Vinny’s Parler log-in issues to a new thread
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11770&p=219452#p219452 🚸
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by InsuranceGuy » Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:40 am

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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by Maddy » Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:44 pm

It's being reported just now that Antifa has taken over the streets of New York City, replete with riot gear. https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/13 ... t-video%2F
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version

Post by dualstow » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:26 pm

Maddy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:44 pm
It's being reported just now that Antifa has taken over the streets of New York City, replete with riot gear. https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/13 ... t-video%2F
Eesh. We are beyond the point of no return, aren’t we. I am truly frightened for the crap that is coming our way.
Nothing on the front page of the New York Times so far. Why am I not surprised.
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