Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

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I Shrugged
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by I Shrugged » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:50 pm

Vinny, yes.
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by Mark Leavy » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:40 pm

Still working on my vaccination...

I'm heading North on I5 and stopped in Redding, CA for the night. I asked the front desk gal if the local restaurants were allowing "dine in".

She said that the county is officially "purple" but everyone is ignoring it.

The 'bar and grill' that I stopped in on this evening was 20 yards of 'stool to stool' and no one masked up. Servers included. We partied like it was 2019. God's country :)

Mark
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by SomeDude » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:48 pm

Mark you're way better looking than your writing implied.
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Mark Leavy
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by Mark Leavy » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:51 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:48 pm
Mark you're way better looking than your writing implied.
I've been letting my hair grow out.
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by vnatale » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:26 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:09 pm

I have an appointment to get the first dose of the Moderna vaccine next week. Anyone want to talk me out of it?


Are you at the head of the line because of your profession?

My doctor told me that in spite of age I am healthy so I'm probably looking at next summer for mine
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by Mark Leavy » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:36 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:09 pm
I have an appointment to get the first dose of the Moderna vaccine next week. Anyone want to talk me out of it?
Hell no. I'm all in favor of anyone not me getting the vaccine early and often.
Thank you for your service.
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:01 am

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:09 pm
I have an appointment to get the first dose of the Moderna vaccine next week. Anyone want to talk me out of it?
Best wishes. Please let us know your experience. I'm still contemplating but leaning heavily toward getting vaccinated whenever my place in line comes up. My daughter-in-law (hospital admin) just got the first shot, said it was like a flu shot. No biggie. My nurse daughter is still leaning no - says not enough time to have evaluated long term consequences.
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by Mark Leavy » Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:18 am

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:50 pm
Mark Leavy wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:36 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:09 pm
I have an appointment to get the first dose of the Moderna vaccine next week. Anyone want to talk me out of it?
Hell no. I'm all in favor of anyone not me getting the vaccine early and often.
Thank you for your service.
Glad to oblige. If that was your attempt to dissuade me, you'll have to do better tho.
In all seriousness, I think the vaccine will be net positive - especially for anyone in a risk group, or as in your case, good for your business. And if it turns out that I need it to fly overseas, I'll be asking for the front of the line.
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by WiseOne » Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:17 am

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:09 pm
I have an appointment to get the first dose of the Moderna vaccine next week. Anyone want to talk me out of it?
Of course I wouldn't do that. But, I'll explain my reasoning for the decisions I made, and let's see if that helps. It all boils down to benefit vs. risk - which is what should guide any medical decision.

First: I am low risk - and most likely, much lower risk than the average American due to my age, general health & diet, & lack of comorbid conditions. We know that only 5% of COVID deaths occurred in people with no comorbid conditions. Also I'm pretty sure I've had at least two high risk exposures to COVID, and never had any symptoms.

Second: It will not change my life one tiny bit. We will still be semi-locked down, working from home, wearing masks, distancing etc for the foreseeable future.

Third: I'm only rarely face to face with a patient. And according my hospital, everybody is 100% safe if all parties are wearing masks. We all know that's ridiculous, but...it's what they tell me.

And, the big one...

This is the first time the mRNA vaccine technology has been used. That makes this vaccine a double whammy of unknown risk. In a month or two, we'll have a pretty good idea of short term risks, and it's already looking like it's pretty negligible. However, there is no data at all on long-term risks. For example, I can easily imagine long term increases in cancer risk, or impaired immune function. We don't know a lot about how mRNA works; the research on this started relatively recently due to new genetic testing technologies. The Phase 3 trials are supposed to take a couple of years to complete, but for the purposes of this quickie approval, only 2 months of data were used. That also means that there's no indication of how long the vaccine will be effective, beyond the two months.

As a cautionary tale, thalidomide was considered to be so safe and effective it was approved without going through the long term trials. Oopsie. As you all know, this resulted in births of a lot of kids with missing limbs. The COVID vaccines are our modern day version of what could well turn out to be another thalidomide situation.

So on balance, the benefit to me is nil, and the risks are unknown. Could be anything from nil to thalidomide-level badness. We just don't know.

In your case MangoMan, there may be more benefits to be had. Like, if you're in a higher risk group (I believe you are by age), or if your dental practice would benefit from your being vaccinated. That could change the calculus. I'm actually planning to help my mom get the COVID vaccine once it becomes available to her group (>age 80, outside of care homes). There's a much clearer benefit to her, whereas long-term consequences are rather less of a concern given her age.

I know what you're thinking now: I should get the vaccine to protect my mom. That is indeed a potential benefit and it's the one thing that might make me decide to get it earlier than I otherwise would like. What I would like best, of course, is to wait until the Phase 3 trials are completed & reported, which is about 2 years. I would be pretty surprised if the vaccine weren't made mandatory well before then, so in reality I might only be able to hold out a month or two. Hoping for 3.
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by vnatale » Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:00 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:01 am

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:09 pm

I have an appointment to get the first dose of the Moderna vaccine next week. Anyone want to talk me out of it?


Best wishes. Please let us know your experience. I'm still contemplating but leaning heavily toward getting vaccinated whenever my place in line comes up. My daughter-in-law (hospital admin) just got the first shot, said it was like a flu shot. No biggie. My nurse daughter is still leaning no - says not enough time to have evaluated long term consequences.


Seems similar to software users? Some choose to be beta users while some other want to wait until version 2.0 is out?

Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by Maddy » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:18 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:09 pm
I have an appointment to get the first dose of the Moderna vaccine next week. Anyone want to talk me out of it?
If you're going to be a research subject, I'd suggest you sign up for a study that pays. Having regularly done this for tuition money while working in a university research lab, this is something I know a fair bit about. The ones that require you to drink something radioactive are generally the most lucrative.
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by vnatale » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:35 pm

If true about the safety (or lack thereof) of this vaccine then it somewhat takes off the luster of Trump's constant crowing (as recently as yesterday) about what a great feat this was?

Somewhat you get what you pay for? You take shortcuts from the normal process and you might get an inferior result?

Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by Xan » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:48 pm

I don't truly understand vaccine hesitancy.

Group A: You think that COVID is the worst thing ever. For sure you'll want the vaccine.

Group B: You think that all this masking and distancing and shutting everything down is an overreaction. Don't you also want the vaccine?

Group B knows there's no perfect safety, and is comfortable taking small risks in order to live their lives. It seems that if you're in Group B, you'd a) want to get back to normal ASAP, and b) would be okay with the small risk of something going wrong from the vaccine.

Speaking for myself, give me the vaccine. I want my life back.
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by Tortoise » Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:24 pm

Xan wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:48 pm
Speaking for myself, give me the vaccine. I want my life back.
How does taking the vaccine give you your life back?

What if the risk of complications from Covid at your age and health status is lower than the risk of complications from the vaccine?
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by SomeDude » Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:37 pm

I'm in group C. I'm skeptical COVID is even a thing. I think if we weren't testing for it, we might not know anything was different. Maybe this would go down as a bad flu year, but maybe not. Probably not.

Taking this vaccine seems crazy to me, not just for me, but for anyone. Its not even a vaccine right? Its gene therapy. Who knows what else it will screw up in your body.

If i was really worried about getting the flu, I'd avoid contact with people as much as possible until i was no longer worried.

At any rate, i haven't even had a cold in 20 years.

I started to "get my life back" yesterday. I went grocery shopping and i saw an elderly man without a mask on. I took mine off and asked him if anyone hassles him for not wearing. He said nope, no one says anything. So i finished shopping with mine off.

In my estimation, COVID will end when we stop testing and stop wearing masks.

I realize some other posters will get incensed by what i wrote here. Ohhh well its the internet guys. You don't have to come over to my place for dinner. If you did though i would insist you take off your masks.
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by Smith1776 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:45 pm

If you immunize your bond portfolio do you still need the vaccine for COVID? Asking for a friend.
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by SomeDude » Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:55 pm

FWIW to some of you, the "vaccine" was developed using tissue from aborted babies.
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by dualstow » Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:41 am

SomeDude wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:55 pm
FWIW to some of you, the "vaccine" was developed using tissue from aborted babies.
Technically true, but:
https://www.verywellhealth.com/do-vacci ... sue-260337

The Vatican has taken a stand on the issue. In 2017, the Vatican's Pontifical Academy for Life said that lack of vaccinations represents a serious health risk.

They stated, "In the past, vaccines had been prepared using cells from aborted human fetuses, however currently used cell lines are very distant from the original abortions ... today it is no longer necessary to obtain cells from new voluntary abortions, and that the cell lines on which the vaccines are based in are derived solely from two fetuses originally aborted in the 1960’s."
see also:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06 ... etal-cells
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:59 am

SomeDude wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:37 pm
I'm in group C. I'm skeptical COVID is even a thing. I think if we weren't testing for it, we might not know anything was different. Maybe this would go down as a bad flu year, but maybe not. Probably not.

Taking this vaccine seems crazy to me, not just for me, but for anyone. Its not even a vaccine right? Its gene therapy. Who knows what else it will screw up in your body.

If i was really worried about getting the flu, I'd avoid contact with people as much as possible until i was no longer worried.

I started to "get my life back" yesterday. I went grocery shopping and i saw an elderly man without a mask on. I took mine off and asked him if anyone hassles him for not wearing. He said nope, no one says anything. So i finished shopping with mine off.

In my estimation, COVID will end when we stop testing and stop wearing masks.
Couldn't agree more.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by WiseOne » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:07 am

Xan wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:48 pm
Speaking for myself, give me the vaccine. I want my life back.
Xan, if the vaccine would indeed give you your life back, i.e. lead to relaxing of mask/distancing/lockdowns, then I could understand that. However, it won't - and it's not because politicians are lying. They're not. They're telling us straight-up that lockdowns, mask mandates, distancing etc will continue. You don't get to not wear a mask or throw a dinner party because you got the vaccine.

I don't really know what the end point of the pandemic is. I guess when the positive test rate drops to zero, or near zero, and stays there for a minimum of 6 months to a year. And, the ICUs are empty of patients with respiratory illness. Remember it was less than 1% all summer with very little ICU action but that wasn't enough, so I assume something like the above conditions would have to happen.

And the thing is, that will never happen. What's the false positive rate of the tests, including detecting past infection? There have been a few educated guesses of somewhere in the neighborhood of 1%. Certainly not zero. And, there will always be patients flooding into ICUs with respiratory illnesses in the winter. So I'm guessing that the pandemic will end only when a) the people get tired of it and just start ignoring the laws, making them impossible to enforce, or b) politicians realize there is no endpoint, they get tired of the endless cycling, and they'll simply declare victory and walk off the field based on whatever numbers they decide to talk about. God only knows what role the vaccine will play in all that, but I'm guessing it won't be a big factor.
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by Xan » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:27 am

I'm not sure what y'all are talking about. Maybe it's different in CA or NY, but here, all the constraints are self-imposed. My kids' indoor bounce place is closed because people don't want to go there. Nobody's hosting or attending dinner parties because they think it isn't a good idea. I think restaurants are mandated to max 50% capacity. Other than that there isn't much government involvement.

I don't care whose fault it is: the virus itself, government, people. The vaccine will let everybody get back to normal and I can't wait.
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by glennds » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:44 am

Xan wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:27 am
I'm not sure what y'all are talking about. Maybe it's different in CA or NY, but here, all the constraints are self-imposed. My kids' indoor bounce place is closed because people don't want to go there. Nobody's hosting or attending dinner parties because they think it isn't a good idea. I think restaurants are mandated to max 50% capacity. Other than that there isn't much government involvement.

I don't care whose fault it is: the virus itself, government, people. The vaccine will let everybody get back to normal and I can't wait.
Same exact thing here (Phoenix, AZ). Some people are very conservative and careful regarding COVID, others are behaving and experiencing daily life little different from 2019. It seems to be mostly up to the individual, and you can make your own choice whether to go out to a packed bar, or avoid it due to COVID or any other reason you like. However special events, shows, concerts and things like that are an exception unfortunately.

And there are signs on most retail businesses requiring a mask for customers. I think there is a county wide mask mandate. Some businesses enforce it and others don't. Most seem to go along with it. I gather from this talk that it must be different in other states.

Yes, I think things are going to get back to normal one way or another. The vaccine will just accelerate it.
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by vnatale » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:59 am

glennds wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:44 am

Xan wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:27 am

I'm not sure what y'all are talking about. Maybe it's different in CA or NY, but here, all the constraints are self-imposed. My kids' indoor bounce place is closed because people don't want to go there. Nobody's hosting or attending dinner parties because they think it isn't a good idea. I think restaurants are mandated to max 50% capacity. Other than that there isn't much government involvement.

I don't care whose fault it is: the virus itself, government, people. The vaccine will let everybody get back to normal and I can't wait.


Same exact thing here (Phoenix, AZ). Some people are very conservative and careful regarding COVID, others are behaving and experiencing daily life little different from 2019. It seems to be mostly up to the individual, and you can make your own choice whether to go out to a packed bar, or avoid it due to COVID or any other reason you like. However special events, shows, concerts and things like that are an exception unfortunately.

And there are signs on most retail businesses requiring a mask for customers. I think there is a county wide mask mandate. Some businesses enforce it and others don't. Most seem to go along with it. I gather from this talk that it must be different in other states.

Yes, I think things are going to get back to normal one way or another. The vaccine will just accelerate it.


Do not see anyone in the supermarket here in Massachusetts who are NOT wearing a mask.

I've had three sets of home heating people come to my house this past week. All three sets of them were wearing masks. I asked each of them if they wanted me to wear one. The first two said that they did not care. The last one (Thursday) did ask me to wear one.

Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by Mark Leavy » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:32 am

Xan wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:27 am
I'm not sure what y'all are talking about. Maybe it's different in CA or NY, but here, all the constraints are self-imposed. My kids' indoor bounce place is closed because people don't want to go there. Nobody's hosting or attending dinner parties because they think it isn't a good idea. I think restaurants are mandated to max 50% capacity. Other than that there isn't much government involvement.

I don't care whose fault it is: the virus itself, government, people. The vaccine will let everybody get back to normal and I can't wait.
It's very state dependent.
Arizona, Utah, Texas, Florida, Wyoming, South Dakota, etc. : You can eat out and generally flout the mask mandate.
California, Oregon, Washington, Colorado, New York, New Mexico, etc. : Locked down tight. No eating out, no going anywhere without a mask.
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Re: Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:43 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:40 am
Mark Leavy wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:32 am
Xan wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:27 am
I'm not sure what y'all are talking about. Maybe it's different in CA or NY, but here, all the constraints are self-imposed. My kids' indoor bounce place is closed because people don't want to go there. Nobody's hosting or attending dinner parties because they think it isn't a good idea. I think restaurants are mandated to max 50% capacity. Other than that there isn't much government involvement.

I don't care whose fault it is: the virus itself, government, people. The vaccine will let everybody get back to normal and I can't wait.
It's very state dependent.
Arizona, Utah, Texas, Florida, Wyoming, South Dakota, etc. : You can eat out and generally flout the mask mandate.
California, Oregon, Washington, Colorado, New York, New Mexico, etc. : Locked down tight. No eating out, no going anywhere without a mask.
But folks, it's not political! Anyone care to play the game of what does each of those lists of states have in common? :P

Inhalation of either saltwater fumes or old hippy underarm odors (second group)?

Freedom appreciators (first group)?

;)
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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