Message From Our Alt-Right Members to the “Moderates”

[yankees60]

I can't say I share the concern for everybody being "equal." So long as I have a reasonably accessible path to a happy life, what do I care whether the guy across the road has 160 acres to my 20, or whether he's able to retire early and I'm not? Life's unfair, and fate has its way of picking its own winners and losers. So as long as my pursuits are not being unreasonably interfered with by someone bent upon using his superior position to thwart me, what's to complain about? When the guy I envy for having so many more advantages than I loses his leg in a logging accident, or his kid gets cancer, the scoreboard starts looking a little different.

That said, I absolutely detest the likes of Jeff Bezos et al. As far as I can tell, he and his cronies are precisely the type who can never be satisfied until everybody else in the game has lost their clothes. However, as I've said before, I don't regard his uniquely powerful status to have been acquired or maintained without the constant support and involvement of government.

So it puzzles me why anybody would reflexively conclude that even more government intervention is the answer to the problem. Hasn't it been proven, over and over again, that people like him are never touched by the very regulations designed by do-gooders to spread the wealth? Didn't a left-leaning member of this forum just recently acknowledge that interventions designed to narrow the gap between the rich and the poor inevitably target the middle class rather than the 1 percent?

What might happen if we actually enforced anti-trust laws? What if government bowed out of the business of supporting corporate monopolies? What if we no longer tolerated the revolving door whereby the same people rotate through Congress, intelligence positions, NGOs, and corporate boards?

This is where I always have the problem. Yes, what you say may be true AFTER Amazon reached a certain status. But the success of Amazon was NO given.

When Jeff Bezos started Amazon Amazon had NONE of the advantages that you attribute to the government. Actually, it seems like almost everyone here would say he started with all the inherent disadvantages because we have our government the way it is.

Many of us could have started an Amazon at the same time he did.

But he actually did it. He took on tons and tons of risk. He worked incredible hours. Now he is reaping the rewards.

Isn't what I just wrote in the prior paragraph what almost everyone here believes should be the cause and the outcome?

For me Amazon is an incredible business. Thus its owner should be incredibly rewarded. That business is extremely well utilized by me. Spend a lot of money at it and with more and more purchases every year.

Where is the bright line cut off for a business like Amazon when you say enough is enough now some major changes have to be made to it so that it is no longer getting perceived unfair advantages from our government?

I'm an independent politically. I do believe in the free market and capitalist system.

So far I've read two books on Amazon, full of details. They were each far from puff pieces on Amazon. I emerged from reading both of them with nothing but respect for Jeff Bezos.

Rather than being so reviled from seemingly every quarter he should have celebrity status as a capitalist star!

Vinny

Hmmm. This seems in conflict to Doodle's premise that Bezo's risks and hard work do not entitle him to the fruits of his struggle.

My only issue is that the fruits of his struggle also come from the collective labor and lives of tens of thousands of individuals. Jeff Bezos had a great idea, a great mind, and put in a lot of hard work to make it reality. After that initial idea he harnessed the intelligence and labor power of thousands of individuals and leveraged capital markets, distribution networks and public road systems, public education systems, public court and legal systems to build his company. There is a symbiotic relationship between the idea man and the collective structure that allows a company like that to grow and flourish. I don't think it's right that he makes 2 billion a week while he has fulltime workers living off food stamps while they put themselves in harm's way to make amazon an enormous profit during the lockdowns. I look at amazon as a collective tribe and I find it distasteful that any company would treat it's members that way.

I think this article from the financial times raises some other issues regarding the size of Amazon and how it can leverage that to squash competition.

https://www.ft.com/content/7c291a12-b8 ... 61693c3e7

I do not know how many employees Amazon has. Do you?

How much do you want to take away from him? If taken away from him and divided up equally among all other employees, how much does each one get? Or, do you have some other proportional way to divide that excess amount?

Who decides what is this excess amount? You? A state committee of people? A Federal committee? Some body has to decide.

What do we do if other people do not agree on what is the excess amount?

Where would all those people now be if a Jeff Bezos had not been born? It is far from a certainty that we'd have anything close to what Amazon is today. Therefore where would all those people be today? Meaning they are each choosing to work for Amazon rather than the alternatives that exist today and which would have been the only choices available to them absent Amazon providing to them the jobs Amazon provides.

Finally, I'm not going to buy that they'd have been able to work at all those places that Amazon has supposedly put out of business. Retail is fairly close to the bottom of the barrel when it comes to work, correct? Lots of minimum wage, part-time jobs?

I spend and buy so much at Amazon because I get outstanding prices and service. Prior to them I did not buy elsewhere a high percentage of what I do buy from them because the value was just not there for me. Too high prices on top of the time I had to expend to make the purchase.

Give me Amazon or give me death!!!!

Vinny

[doodle]

I can't say I share the concern for everybody being "equal." So long as I have a reasonably accessible path to a happy life, what do I care whether the guy across the road has 160 acres to my 20, or whether he's able to retire early and I'm not? Life's unfair, and fate has its way of picking its own winners and losers. So as long as my pursuits are not being unreasonably interfered with by someone bent upon using his superior position to thwart me, what's to complain about? When the guy I envy for having so many more advantages than I loses his leg in a logging accident, or his kid gets cancer, the scoreboard starts looking a little different.

That said, I absolutely detest the likes of Jeff Bezos et al. As far as I can tell, he and his cronies are precisely the type who can never be satisfied until everybody else in the game has lost their clothes. However, as I've said before, I don't regard his uniquely powerful status to have been acquired or maintained without the constant support and involvement of government.

So it puzzles me why anybody would reflexively conclude that even more government intervention is the answer to the problem. Hasn't it been proven, over and over again, that people like him are never touched by the very regulations designed by do-gooders to spread the wealth? Didn't a left-leaning member of this forum just recently acknowledge that interventions designed to narrow the gap between the rich and the poor inevitably target the middle class rather than the 1 percent?

What might happen if we actually enforced anti-trust laws? What if government bowed out of the business of supporting corporate monopolies? What if we no longer tolerated the revolving door whereby the same people rotate through Congress, intelligence positions, NGOs, and corporate boards?

This is where I always have the problem. Yes, what you say may be true AFTER Amazon reached a certain status. But the success of Amazon was NO given.

When Jeff Bezos started Amazon Amazon had NONE of the advantages that you attribute to the government. Actually, it seems like almost everyone here would say he started with all the inherent disadvantages because we have our government the way it is.

Many of us could have started an Amazon at the same time he did.

But he actually did it. He took on tons and tons of risk. He worked incredible hours. Now he is reaping the rewards.

Isn't what I just wrote in the prior paragraph what almost everyone here believes should be the cause and the outcome?

For me Amazon is an incredible business. Thus its owner should be incredibly rewarded. That business is extremely well utilized by me. Spend a lot of money at it and with more and more purchases every year.

Where is the bright line cut off for a business like Amazon when you say enough is enough now some major changes have to be made to it so that it is no longer getting perceived unfair advantages from our government?

I'm an independent politically. I do believe in the free market and capitalist system.

So far I've read two books on Amazon, full of details. They were each far from puff pieces on Amazon. I emerged from reading both of them with nothing but respect for Jeff Bezos.

Rather than being so reviled from seemingly every quarter he should have celebrity status as a capitalist star!

Vinny

Hmmm. This seems in conflict to Doodle's premise that Bezo's risks and hard work do not entitle him to the fruits of his struggle.

My only issue is that the fruits of his struggle also come from the collective labor and lives of tens of thousands of individuals. Jeff Bezos had a great idea, a great mind, and put in a lot of hard work to make it reality. After that initial idea he harnessed the intelligence and labor power of thousands of individuals and leveraged capital markets, distribution networks and public road systems, public education systems, public court and legal systems to build his company. There is a symbiotic relationship between the idea man and the collective structure that allows a company like that to grow and flourish. I don't think it's right that he makes 2 billion a week while he has fulltime workers living off food stamps while they put themselves in harm's way to make amazon an enormous profit during the lockdowns. I look at amazon as a collective tribe and I find it distasteful that any company would treat it's members that way.

I think this article from the financial times raises some other issues regarding the size of Amazon and how it can leverage that to squash competition.

https://www.ft.com/content/7c291a12-b8 ... 61693c3e7

I do not know how many employees Amazon has. Do you?

How much do you want to take away from him? If taken away from him and divided up equally among all other employees, how much does each one get? Or, do you have some other proportional way to divide that excess amount?

Who decides what is this excess amount? You? A state committee of people? A Federal committee? Some body has to decide.

What do we do if other people do not agree on what is the excess amount?

Where would all those people now be if a Jeff Bezos had not been born? It is far from a certainty that we'd have anything close to what Amazon is today. Therefore where would all those people be today? Meaning they are each choosing to work for Amazon rather than the alternatives that exist today and which would have been the only choices available to them absent Amazon providing to them the jobs Amazon provides.

Finally, I'm not going to buy that they'd have been able to work at all those places that Amazon has supposedly put out of business. Retail is fairly close to the bottom of the barrel when it comes to work, correct? Lots of minimum wage, part-time jobs?

I spend and buy so much at Amazon because I get outstanding prices and service. Prior to them I did not buy elsewhere a high percentage of what I do buy from them because the value was just not there for me. Too high prices on top of the time I had to expend to make the purchase.

Give me Amazon or give me death!!!!

Vinny

I don't think anyone should have the right to make those decisions. That's why I advocate for alternative methods of spreading the wealth...mainly by empowering labor to better negotiate their value. I think labor undersells itself. I think if better educated and organized labor could more effectively negotiate for a larger piece of the pie of the value that is created through their work.

[doodle]

Of course, labor negotiating for higher wages will hasten the AI replacement of workers in which case we need some real creative thinking because eliminating wage work with robots also eliminates consumers which harm's Jeff Bezos and other capitalists and threatens to undermine entire system....which I don't want

[doodle]

Amazon taking it from both the eastern and western front

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo ... eddit.com

Democratic representative Alexandria Ocasio Cortez has condemned certain jobs at technology giant Amazon as a "scam", saying they do not provide ample financial security for workers.

"A 'job' that leaves you homeless & on food stamps isn't a job. It's a scam," Ms Ocasio-Cortez, the representative for New York’s 14th congressional district, said on Twitter on Friday.

[doodle]

This comment interesting...

Most walmart employees are on food stamps for example

Walmart is also the place where the most food stamps are used.....

So essentially Walmart is on government assistance while they clear $500+ billion annually. Nothing wrong with this picture.

[Tortoise]

Tom, your libertarian utopia is way too idealistic and doesn’t acknowledge reality.

Now, can we please get back to figuring out how to mold and shape society using the force of a government led by principled, honest philosopher-kings of high integrity and immunity to corruption?

[SomeDude]

Now, can we please get back to figuring out how to mold and shape society using the force of a government led by principled, honest philosopher-kings of high integrity and immunity to corruption?

You mean like this guy?

if-the-corona-virus-was-a-person-joe-biden-meme.jpg (96.91 KiB) Viewed 6183 times

[Maddy]

Unionization is far from a cure-all in this day and age. Having had my share of employees over the course of several decades, I came early on to the conclusion that a large segment of the folks who never escape the minimum wage trap are there because they are absolutely resistant to doing what it takes to do better. My mind travels immediately to a receptionist I once hired, who spent nearly all of her energy hiding the fact that she was spending all day--every day--perusing the internet, looking for other jobs, and sending and receiving personal e-mails. She denied all this, of course (even in the face of a computer print-out showing the minute-by-minute activity on her computer), so I can add dishonesty to her list of failings. It cost the firm plenty after we found a bottom drawer stuffed full of pleadings and correspondence in a case on the verge of going to trial.

There were many others. People who had such complicated, consistent "child care issues" that their morning calls became predictable; one employee who spent hours constructing a 20-foot long paperclip chain to adorn a bronze statue in the reception area (presumably signifying the class struggle), a temp who downloaded her memoirs onto an office computer and spent her day working on them. I could go on and on. What these people had in common was their desire to do as little as possible, and despite my constant efforts to find some way of motivating them, they had no interest in being motivated. In most of these cases, the issue was not that these people did not have the ability to achieve and advance. In fact, in several cases the intelligence of these employees seemed to be acting as a deterrent. They believed they were too good for the job, but instead of demonstrating their worth, they used the job as a temporary parking place while they looked for a situation that didn't require as much effort.

This attitude--that you're owed a salary for little or nothing in return--seems to be almost the norm these days--especially in minimum wage jobs (of which I've had plenty). Unions seem, as a practical matter, to bring out this attitude in spades.

[Mountaineer]

<snip>
Isn't Jeff Bezos a symbol of the ultimate achieving of the American Dream. From reading what many here write I'd have assumed that they'd revere anyone who'd achieved the American Dream to the extent he has. No. instead he's reviled because he MUST have been able to do what he did SOLELY through the efforts of our wicked government.

I'll close by asking why and at what point did out wicked government decide to give him and Amazon the unfair advantages? Why did they not chose to give it to you or me? Or, all the millions of other Jeff Bezos wannabe's in this country?
<snip>
Vinny

Replace "Jeff Bezos" in the above quote, and the subsequent responses, with "illegal immigrants". Makes for an interesting read on who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.

[blackomen]

This is a great example of what I was speaking of a couple weeks ago, about how this forum is extremely unwelcoming and hostile towards anyone who is not a hard right libertarian. If this forum is a hard right libertarian only forum, and if the PP is a hard right libertarian only portfolio, can the mods please speak up and tell us so? If this is the case I will leave and never return.

But considering I see nothing in the name "gyroscopic investing" that hints that it's exclusive to libertarians, nor do I see anything from the mods here stating that this is a libertarian only forum, your hostility and attempt to make all non-libertarians feel unwelcome is silly. If the mods want this to be an libertarian echo chamber please speak now. Else, Tom you really need to chill and be more accepting of other people expressing opinions that are contrary to your own. You label and judge us just as much as we do you. To try to pretend like you're an innocent victim here is silly. You've simply been shoveled the same shit back at you that you've repeatedly shoveled at us. Doesn't feel good does it?

I'm a left libertarian (ok, center-left to be more precise) and I religiously invest in the PP. I don't completely disagree with the principles parroted by those so-called right libertarians since to me, freedom and individualism are my core values but I don't believe in promoting them to the expense of everything else - we gotta strike some balance.

Personally, I seek out views that don't necessarily confirm my existing views. This includes reading news and communities with a political bias that doesn't align with mine occasionally. I'll admit I can be biased and will not hide this fact though I try to be less biased over time ( nobody is completely unbiased, not even the people who try really hard to be unbiased thought they tend to be less biased.) Sometimes, you'll need to see multiple sides to something before you really have a sense of what's going on.

[sophie]

By "unwelcoming and hostile" you mean disagrees with (and are somewhat revolted by) your hard-left positions, right?

Sorry, but that's not going to change. The hard/extreme left dominates just about every social media and mainstream media outlet there is, and this forum is a much needed relief valve for those of us who don't subscribe to that view. We're fighting to keep it that way. You on the other hand can go pretty much anywhere you want and find no shortage of like-minded left wing opinions.

[SomeDude]

By "unwelcoming and hostile" you mean disagrees with (and are somewhat revolted by) your hard-left positions, right?

Sorry, but that's not going to change. The hard/extreme left dominates just about every social media and mainstream media outlet there is, and this forum is a much needed relief valve for those of us who don't subscribe to that view. We're fighting to keep it that way. You on the other hand can go pretty much anywhere you want and find no shortage of like-minded left wing opinions.

There you go again Sophie being at Alt-ham extremist. Yes some folks like ham sandwiches in principle, they are just not alt-ham extremists and they recognize the common-sense need for some poo to be smeared. If only you were more reasonable we could have a pleasant conversation about just how much to put on there. In fact, we could completely ignore and derail any topic and turn into a poop-smear quantity chat, because you know, at least some is necessary. All reasonable people agree on that basic premise.

Actually you're beyond an alt-ham extremist. You're anti-poo which means you're anti-logic, reason, evidence, and a bad person on top of it all.

[doodle]

By "unwelcoming and hostile" you mean disagrees with (and are somewhat revolted by) your hard-left positions, right?

Sorry, but that's not going to change. The hard/extreme left dominates just about every social media and mainstream media outlet there is, and this forum is a much needed relief valve for those of us who don't subscribe to that view. We're fighting to keep it that way. You on the other hand can go pretty much anywhere you want and find no shortage of like-minded left wing opinions.

You seriously find us to be representative of the "hard left"? You guys need a political spectrum reality check. Opposing the abolishment of the government and complete privitization of the legal system does not make one hard left. Neither does recognizing that capitalism like any man made system might have some inherent flaws that could lead to social destabilization. Ignoring the potential issues with further AI automation of our workplace and the dislocation of millions of workers doesn't make you a libertarian superstar, it makes you shortsighted. Brushing away the increasing wealth disparity within our society as a nothing burger is to completely ignore human history. If you really care about preserving liberty and freedom and economic prosperity you would realize that stripping everything down to a darwinian survival of the fittest mad max dystopia will lead us in the opposite direction of those values.

"eliminate government" is the most extreme interpretation of the libertarian view, i strongly suspect that most if not all would say ... explore and experiment with non government options when ever possible .. use what works .. i see/hear realist options where you read extremest uncompromising views. the difference between political philosophy (eliminating government) and political realism (experimenting with limiting government based on the philosophy ) seems to elude the fix it with more government crowd

[doodle]

In the thread on wealth inequality Pointedstick posted this.

There are limiting factors for wealth inequality. A soft limit is some form of collective organization/bargaining (i.e. unionization), and the ultimate one is revolution.

Like it or not, these are trends that have played out over and over again throughout human history whenever the majority perceived that a small minority was "hoarding" wealth and immiserating them. Note the words "majority" and "perceive" in that sentence. The tipping point is definitely nebulous and fuzzy. It's not like there's a mathematical equation for when the peasants will revolt. It's based on things like overall moods and feelings. Hard to predict.

Those who deny that there is any problem with any level of wealth inequality would do well to learn the lessons of history. The people who get whacked first when there's a class-based revolution aren't the actual elites, but rather the professional and technical classes, the academics, the upper middle class, etc. I.e. people generally like those who post on this board. The real elites aren't very vulnerable, but the members of the upper middle class who derive their comfortable livelihood by servicing the system definitely are.

Does that make him a member of the hard left as well? Smithers also posted comment to the same effect. Their comments actually remind me of the type of throught process that used to exist on this forum 10 years ago when Tex and Craig ran it. There was a lot more reality based discussion. This hard line abolish the government, agenda 21, Alex Jones conspiracy ranting they'll never take me alive! type of personality basically didn't exist. Were there differing opinions between forum members, sure. But it has been taken to a level of extreme lately that never existed here. The positions of some dude, and Tom and Techno are an aberation from the norm here.

[doodle]

[
I'm a left libertarian (ok, center-left to be more precise) and I religiously invest in the PP. I don't completely disagree with the principles parroted by those so-called right libertarians since to me, freedom and individualism are my core values but I don't believe in promoting them to the expense of everything else - we gotta strike some balance.

You mean an oxymoron according to this forums self nominated resident sheriff Tom and his posse of good ol boys and gals. You are a communist in disguise hell bent on authoritarian power and a menace to liberty everywhere!

[blackomen]

[
I'm a left libertarian (ok, center-left to be more precise) and I religiously invest in the PP. I don't completely disagree with the principles parroted by those so-called right libertarians since to me, freedom and individualism are my core values but I don't believe in promoting them to the expense of everything else - we gotta strike some balance.

You mean an oxymoron according to this forums self nominated resident sheriff Tom and his posse of good ol boys and gals. You are a communist in disguise hell bent on authoritarian power and a menace to liberty everywhere!

And when I go to left leaning boards, I've been called alt-right, Nazi, Trump supporter, even White supremacist (kinda ironic since I'm not even white and didn't even mention anything in direct support of the superiority of white race and yet they seem to think I'm one of them.)

[AdamA]

...there is NOTHING about politics in it aside from a healthy dose of not trusting governments to do the right thing....

Therefore I'm 100% here with pmward that believing in the Permanent Portfolio and its philosophy and logic for how it works does not then tie you to having to take or subscribe to any other political beliefs or philosophies.

+1

[doodle]

[
I'm a left libertarian (ok, center-left to be more precise) and I religiously invest in the PP. I don't completely disagree with the principles parroted by those so-called right libertarians since to me, freedom and individualism are my core values but I don't believe in promoting them to the expense of everything else - we gotta strike some balance.

You mean an oxymoron according to this forums self nominated resident sheriff Tom and his posse of good ol boys and gals. You are a communist in disguise hell bent on authoritarian power and a menace to liberty everywhere!

And when I go to left leaning boards, I've been called alt-right, Nazi, Trump supporter, even White supremacist (kinda ironic since I'm not even white and didn't even mention anything in direct support of the superiority of white race and yet they seem to think I'm one of them.)

Same here. When Trump got elected I listened to alt right stuff all the time. Jared Taylor, Richard Spencer, Milo, Peterson...just looking for answers. Trying to understand the sentiments that lead to his election rout. I understand where many people here are coming from...I really do. I get that the government frequently messes things up, that there are downsides to unions, that people need to take personal responsibility. What I take issue with is predominantly the attitude here that the way to solve every societal problem is to simply eliminate government.

Environmental degradation and annihilation of biodiversity? Just get rid of government...

Wealth inequality and social economic and racial tensions? Just get rid of government.

Rising rates of depression, suicide and drug abuse among americans? Just get rid of government.

Then there is the contingent who bemoans the radical leftists advocating defunding the police while simultaneously advocating for the elimination of the police and legal system all together to be replaced by vigilante justice and a private legal system....whatever that is.

Any opposition to these ideas finds you labeled a communist and grouped in with Stalin. Its the literal definition of insanity.

[doodle]

Unionization is far from a cure-all in this day and age. Having had my share of employees over the course of several decades, I came early on to the conclusion that a large segment of the folks who never escape the minimum wage trap are there because they are absolutely resistant to doing what it takes to do better. My mind travels immediately to a receptionist I once hired, who spent nearly all of her energy hiding the fact that she was spending all day--every day--perusing the internet, looking for other jobs, and sending and receiving personal e-mails. She denied all this, of course (even in the face of a computer print-out showing the minute-by-minute activity on her computer), so I can add dishonesty to her list of failings. It cost the firm plenty after we found a bottom drawer stuffed full of pleadings and correspondence in a case on the verge of going to trial.

There were many others. People who had such complicated, consistent "child care issues" that their morning calls became predictable; one employee who spent hours constructing a 20-foot long paperclip chain to adorn a bronze statue in the reception area (presumably signifying the class struggle), a temp who downloaded her memoirs onto an office computer and spent her day working on them. I could go on and on. What these people had in common was their desire to do as little as possible, and despite my constant efforts to find some way of motivating them, they had no interest in being motivated. In most of these cases, the issue was not that these people did not have the ability to achieve and advance. In fact, in several cases the intelligence of these employees seemed to be acting as a deterrent. They believed they were too good for the job, but instead of demonstrating their worth, they used the job as a temporary parking place while they looked for a situation that didn't require as much effort.

This attitude--that you're owed a salary for little or nothing in return--seems to be almost the norm these days--especially in minimum wage jobs (of which I've had plenty). Unions seem, as a practical matter, to bring out this attitude in spades.

Your experience mirrors that of Dr. Pugchief, who ran his own dental practice for 30+ years.

Which leads me to believe capitalism doesn’t work. That’s why we need socialism and more employee unions.

I’ve consulted at unionized organizations, and the problems you described Maddy are not problems at all. Because when a worker is found by his manager sleeping at his desk during work hours, the manager is not allowed to wake him up. The union says it’s not a problem. So the problems go away if we can redefine the word “problem”

And the fact that they had to fly me across the country and pay me 4x what they pay their employees to get work done only shows the dangers of capitalism.

Agree, there are downsides to unions. It's not all roses. However advocating for labor to negotiate more effectively on its own behalf is not anti freedom.

Second, oftentimes people who are paid next to nothing wages deliver next to nothing results. When I worked at 7-11 in college for 8.50 an hour you think I really was going to put on a perky smile and have an upbeat attitude at 2 in the morning after being in school all day?

Third, I don't have a problem with inequality. There will never be equality in a world where we have different skills and motivations and there shouldn't be. People should be rewarded for their hard work. However, I also recognize that this system that works so well for you guys is compulsory. It isn't liberty if someone has to play by a set of rules that you force upon them. The native americans are a perfect example of a culture and lifestyle that was decimated by your authoritarian insistence on certain fundamental capitalist principles. Your idea of "freedom" destroyed their freedom. So stop pretending like you are the true and only representatives of liberty.

Your system has taken away peoples birthright to freely inhabit this earth. No man created the earth yet you think you have the right to tell others where they can sit and stand and walk. Sorry, that isn't liberty. For that harm you want to provide no compensation. The Indians used to freely roam the plains and hunt buffalo until our civilization stole that liberty from them. And now you want to sit back and claim to be the torchbearers of justice and freedom. Bullshit!

[doodle]

Oh, and one more thing to all of you who ran a business and complain about your workers. I ran a business as well and chose specifically not to hire anyone because I wanted to be in absolute control of the quality of my work. I decided to forgo expansion and turned down larger projects because I decided to work alone.

If you hired someone it's because you wanted to expand and increase your revenue further than you could on your own. You did it for selfish reasons. If you couldnt motivate the individual working for you then you have yourself to blame. Jeff Bezos couldn't have built amazon on his own. He didn't have the capital, skills, talent or manpower to do so. It was a collective effort that he organized. If he has workers that aren't motivated that's on him, not his workers. Perhaps he needs to rethink his incentive system.

[doodle]

Oh, and one more thing to all of you who ran a business and complain about your workers. I ran a business as well and chose specifically not to hire anyone because I wanted to be in absolute control of the quality of my work. I decided to forgo expansion and turned down larger projects because I decided to work alone.

If you hired someone it's because you wanted to expand and increase your revenue further than you could on your own. You did it for selfish reasons. If you couldnt motivate the individual working for you then you have yourself to blame. Jeff Bezos couldn't have built amazon on his own. He didn't have the capital, skills, talent or manpower to do so. It was a collective effort that he organized. If he has workers that aren't motivated that's on him, not his workers. Perhaps he needs to rethink his incentive system.

Well, Maddy and Dr Pugchief, you are both selfish people. Why not file your own legal briefs and prep your own patients for dental work?

Clarification..they are not selfish, but by hiring people they had selfish motivations to offload boring time consuming or mundane aspects of their job to someone else in order to free up more time for them to earn more money. If pug can earn 100 dollars an hour seeing a patient then it is a great deal to hire someone for ten dollars an hour to prep and clean the room. If he can free up five hours a day and earn 500 dollars by paying someone 50 bucks that's a great deal for him. But he shouldn't act surprised that the other individual maybe isn't as motivated or excited about the deal as he is. In that regard he has failed to motivate that individual. Perhaps if he paid them 30 dollars an hour instead he would get a motivated dedicated person, but he's not willing to just make an extra 350....he wants 450...well, I don't feel that much sympathy for him. Sorry, you get what you pay for.

[doodle]

Oh, and if all the dental assistants in the town know that they are providing services which is worth 100 dollars an hour to pugs bottom line and they want to band together and organize to negotiate for a higher percentage of their labors value to the dentist then I don't see why they shouldn't have the freedom to do that. If pug wants to import someone from another state or hire someone without the skills and train them and retain them at a lower rate then he can do that as well. Of course, he might be getting lower quality service and there is no promise that after all that investment they don't just hit the door for a better offer.

I'm merely making the argument that I think labor is selling itself short. Jeff Bezos wouldn't make a penny if it wasn't for his workforce. The fact that we know he makes 2 billion every two weeks is enough for workers to organize and say obviously we are providing you a lot of value that you are skimming off of us. Perhaps mr jeff might be content making 500 million every two weeks and distributing the rest into workforce so they don't have to request gov. Food stamps to feed their families. I don't see anything wrong with that either.

[SomeDude]

In that regard he has failed to motivate that individual. Perhaps if he paid them 30 dollars an hour instead he would get a motivated dedicated person, but he's not willing to just make an extra 350....he wants 450...well, I don't feel that much sympathy for him. Sorry, you get what you pay for.

If the government didn't interfere with stupid child labor laws he could find a motivated kid for a cheaper price that would get them on the bottom rung of the economic ladder.

Instead they are barred from the workforce and encouraged to waste time and their future taking out government-backed student loans, resulting in the student loan crisis. Also resulting in way way too many college grads. For fun, before the government made going out such a safe experience, I liked to ask my bartenders what their degree was in.

It was never in bartending.

I'm sure there is a poo smear, I mean, government program that can improve all of this. If only we had people smart enough and with enough courage to force it on the deplorables. We need AOC and Bernie, now more than ever.

[doodle]

In that regard he has failed to motivate that individual. Perhaps if he paid them 30 dollars an hour instead he would get a motivated dedicated person, but he's not willing to just make an extra 350....he wants 450...well, I don't feel that much sympathy for him. Sorry, you get what you pay for.

If the government didn't interfere with stupid child labor laws he could find a motivated kid for a cheaper price that would get them on the bottom rung of the economic ladder.

Instead they are barred from the workforce and encouraged to waste time and their future taking out government-backed student loans, resulting in the student loan crisis. Also resulting in way way too many college grads. For fun, before the government made going out such a safe experience, I liked to ask my bartenders what their degree was in.

It was never in bartending.

I'm sure there is a poo smear, I mean, government program that can improve all of this. If only we had people smart enough and with enough courage to force it on the deplorables. We need AOC and Bernie, now more than ever.

Yep, I bet 9 year olds would be cheap. They have so much energy at that age and their small hands...so useful...perhaps regulations regarding biohazardous materials could be done away with as well and we could have the lil ones sterilizing the surgical equipment in the back while they watch sesame street.

Of course the rich kids wouldn't have to work....they would be enrolled in private schools and after school programs with tutoring so they can become the leaders of this great free society. But there are so many little brown and black ragamuffins running around. No need for them to go to school when they can help parents put food on table.

[SomeDude]

In that regard he has failed to motivate that individual. Perhaps if he paid them 30 dollars an hour instead he would get a motivated dedicated person, but he's not willing to just make an extra 350....he wants 450...well, I don't feel that much sympathy for him. Sorry, you get what you pay for.

If the government didn't interfere with stupid child labor laws he could find a motivated kid for a cheaper price that would get them on the bottom rung of the economic ladder.

Instead they are barred from the workforce and encouraged to waste time and their future taking out government-backed student loans, resulting in the student loan crisis. Also resulting in way way too many college grads. For fun, before the government made going out such a safe experience, I liked to ask my bartenders what their degree was in.

It was never in bartending.

I'm sure there is a poo smear, I mean, government program that can improve all of this. If only we had people smart enough and with enough courage to force it on the deplorables. We need AOC and Bernie, now more than ever.

Yep, I bet 9 year olds would be cheap. They have so much energy at that age and their small hands...so useful...perhaps regulations regarding biohazardous materials could be done away with as well and we could have the lil ones sterilizing the surgical equipment in the back while they watch sesame street.

Of course the rich kids wouldn't have to work....they would be enrolled in private schools and after school programs with tutoring so they can become the leaders of this great free society. But there are so many little brown and black ragamuffins running around. No need for them to go to school when they can help parents put food on table.

i knew you'd come around