what is your assesment of the level of government coruption in light of the election. poll

[doodle]

new poll

i will comment on my choice later.. off to work...

If by corruption you mean nepotism...then it's off the charts. I'll let you know after Trump pardons himself, his whole family, and Jared Kushners dad...and then takes all the political donations to his stop the steal charade to enrich his personal coffers.

[pmward]

Investigation is important. But so is willingness to accept the result of that investigation, even if it doesn't go the way one wants it to go.

[doodle]

Investigation is important but that principle goes both ways. Accepting every wild accusation and far-fetched concoction of a narcisstic madman and his whackjob legal team as basis of truth is lunacy (and I'm literally paraphrasing Republicans like Christie and Limbaugh when I say that). Burden of truth should be on Trump and so far the courts aren't buying any of it. You pick, either Trumps claims are bullshit...or our entire legal system including Trump nominated judges are conspirators. I think the more plausible option is evident.

As far as generalized corruption, has there ever been a time when it hasn't existed? Some moments of course better or worse than others....

In general, if I were going to be adjudicated...I'd still pick this country's legal system...despite it's flaws. Our political system likewise is corrupt but not as bad as many other places....yet. Whether we continue to spiral into a partisan hellhole where one side constantly refuses to hold their team accountable or whether we apply equal standards to all participants is ultimately up to us.

[pmward]

Investigation is important but that principle goes both ways. Accepting every wild accusation and far-fetched concoction of a narcisstic madman and his whackjob legal team as basis of truth is lunacy (and I'm literally paraphrasing Republicans like Christie and Limbaugh when I say that). Burden of truth should be on Trump and so far the courts aren't buying any of it. You pick, either Trumps claims are bullshit...or our entire legal system including Trump nominated judges are conspirators. I think the more plausible option is evident.

As far as generalized corruption, has there ever been a time when it hasn't existed? Some moments of course better or worse than others....

In general, if I were going to be adjudicated...I'd still pick this country's legal system...despite it's flaws. Our political system likewise is corrupt but not as bad as many other places....yet. Whether we continue to spiral into a partisan hellhole where one side constantly refuses to hold their team accountable or whether we apply equal standards to all participants is ultimately up to us.

Agreed on all accounts.

[yankees60]

Investigation is important but that principle goes both ways. Accepting every wild accusation and far-fetched concoction of a narcisstic madman and his whackjob legal team as basis of truth is lunacy (and I'm literally paraphrasing Republicans like Christie and Limbaugh when I say that). Burden of truth should be on Trump and so far the courts aren't buying any of it. You pick, either Trumps claims are bullshit...or our entire legal system including Trump nominated judges are conspirators. I think the more plausible option is evident.

As far as generalized corruption, has there ever been a time when it hasn't existed? Some moments of course better or worse than others....

In general, if I were going to be adjudicated...I'd still pick this country's legal system...despite it's flaws. Our political system likewise is corrupt but not as bad as many other places....yet. Whether we continue to spiral into a partisan hellhole where one side constantly refuses to hold their team accountable or whether we apply equal standards to all participants is ultimately up to us.

Agreed on all accounts.

Same here!

Vinny

[Mark Leavy]

so i chose the end was nigh long ago option...

the corrupt are in charge, and the fix is in.. this view doesn't change with either candidate wining.
we have a government of the government by government for the government..
i will concede the best horse in the glue factory status for the USA (justice) but just barely at this point..

i enjoy watching Trump play wack a mole with the deep state (the corrupt), and his ability to duck when the deep state takes a wack at him.
i don't know that he is corrupt since i don't have the liberals magical ability to read minds, and know motives, just based on how a politician makes me feel.. so i have to go by actions,
so far trump seems more on the peoples side than on the governments or his own.. self aggrandizing, blowhard, and tweeting aside, his big ego and big talk are self serving but not actions that consolidate power in his hands and away from representative government.
i am certain based on actions that the left and 90% + of the right are corrupt..

my view of corruption in government in light of this election is that our representative republic is lost, replaced by a different type of republic (banana)... and that the only option left to the little guy is anarchy, refusing to give consent to be governed, or being a "liveitarian" and finding freedom in the spaces between the gears and machinations of the tyrant class.

or

my view of corruption in government in light of this election is that our republic is lost.. but that the American people understand the value of freedom in a way few others do, and have put their lives fortunes on the line for it in the past, the tyrant class has misjudged us, and what free people can and will do for something this important.. we might even right the ship in a way that is surprisingly creative and gracefull. ..if... enough people wake up to the fact that the corrupt are in charge..

...
or being a "liveitarian" and finding freedom in the spaces between the gears and machinations of the tyrant class.
...

I love this entire essay, Simon.

I’m on the same page with you that the corruption has been going on for a long long time, but also that the USA is still the best of many unideal options.

I am fully in the camp of “living between the gears“ and I’m stealing the term “liveitarian“.

thank you..
and i am pleased to see it stolen

[Mountaineer]

i will concede the best horse in the glue factory status for the USA (justice) but just barely at this point..

I thought this line was outstanding!

[Hal]

different type of republic (banana)...

On Bananas -> https://thelibertarianrepublic.com/10-s ... nary-tale/

excellent!

[I Shrugged]

What Mark said about what Simon said!

And, I think the US will die with a whimper, not a bang.

[pp4me]

Wow, I selected the last choice but didn't expect that it would be the majority opinion.

I guess there is more agreement here than you would know from all the discussions.

[pmward]

Wow, I selected the last choice but didn't expect that it would be the majority opinion.

I guess there is more agreement here than you would know from all the discussions.

equally surprised by the results, based on forum posts i would have guessed at least some in every category except the first.. which actually got a vote..

To be fair, you did kind of lump 3 things together in one poll. You lumped whether or not there is corruption, who should be in the White House, and whether or not our country was in imminent threat of ending in the same poll. Probably would have been better to have 3 separate polls on each. I know I struggled to find one I agreed with, and kind of just settled for what seemed the closest approximation.

I will say, I am surprised so many "end is nigh" votes though. I just don't see any scenario where "the end" comes anytime soon.

the intent was to build a poll with corruption on one end no corruption on the other with parallel gradations of the quantity of corruption on a left right spectrum in-between. the poll questions were loosely based on the opinions forum posters seem to be holding in the politics discussions. i probably should have made the two middle options mirror each other a bit better, the moderate views on the left and right are similar (people are seeing corruption) but not quite the same so i left them as is...

i don't really see things ending with a bang either (I shrugged) more a gradual dying of the light, but it seems like we have passed the tipping point long ago, and the slog from twilight to dark has begun in earnest..

[I Shrugged]

Enjoy the Decline: Accepting and Living with the Death of the United States

Hahaha... ehh, maybe not.

[I Shrugged]

I will say, I am surprised so many "end is nigh" votes though. I just don't see any scenario where "the end" comes anytime soon.

We’ll become like France, but with crappy cheese.

Half the country viscerally hates the constitution, and other half ignores it when doing so suits them. The whole American concept is under attack, it’s considered mean and toxic. We are the last country on earth still trying to be what made us successful. But we no longer have the guts for it.

Give everyone their UBI and opiates (but I repeat myself), reeducate them, and it’ll all be juuuuust fine. I for one welcome our new insect overlords.

[Hal]

We’ll become like France, but with crappy cheese.

Haha 10/10

[pmward]

If you look across the entire globe and rank countries by level of corruption, you'd really be hard pressed to find many countries less corrupt than ours is. So why would "the end" come for our country before all these others?

Also, I would agree there is corruption, but I would totally disagree with the common belief here that corruption is just on one side. I think the Republicans and Trump especially are even more corrupt than the left. They just did a great job brainwashing their followers that it's all on the other side.

[sophie]

So according to the reviews - the way you deal with it is not to have excess income to be taxed, and to appear like someone who can qualify for handouts. In other words....FIRE! Sounds like a good plan to me, at least until the wealth tax starts to catch up with levels of savings that you would ordinarily want to bring into FIRE.

One of the determinants of when to quit, for me, is when the regulations and administrative demands start to take up enough time that the fun part of my job (doing science, interacting with collaborators, and mentoring trainees) gets squeezed down to, say, 20% of my time or less. It's definitely getting close. I spend probably 3/4 of my day on admin b-s, every day.

[Tortoise]

Watching the vote tallies in this poll evolve over a couple of days has been kind of instructive.

For a while, there were only one or two votes for the last opinion, "The corrupt are in charge, I cant believe that nobody has noticed." But after a day or two had passed, more votes came in and it turned into the most popular opinion by far.

Apparently the folks who have that opinion aren't the ones checking the Politics sub-forum multiple times a day.

[doodle]

I will say, I am surprised so many "end is nigh" votes though. I just don't see any scenario where "the end" comes anytime soon.

We’ll become like France, but with crappy cheese.

Half the country viscerally hates the constitution, and other half ignores it when doing so suits them. The whole American concept is under attack, it’s considered mean and toxic. We are the last country on earth still trying to be what made us successful. But we no longer have the guts for it.

Give everyone their UBI and opiates (but I repeat myself), reeducate them, and it’ll all be juuuuust fine. I for one welcome our new insect overlords.

my current take on the political spectrum
in political power
- there are the far left who openly want America (freedom) destroyed
- there are the democrat left who want to destroy America (freedom) but who are selling the idea that they will just put the tip in, and promising its no big deal its just the tip..
- there are the right who want to rule over a destroyed America (no freedom) but they think the best way to do that is pander and give lip-service to the principals of freedom, and hope nobody notices it no longer exists
- there are a couple exceptions who are representing the people and freedom (no tyranny) but they are few and far between.
the American people
- there are the far left (useful ultra idiots) who openly want America (freedom) destroyed
- there are the democrat left (useful idiots) who buy idea that they will just put the tip in, and who believe its no big deal its just the tip..
- there are (useful idiots) on the republican right who believe the pandering and lip-service given to the principals of freedom, and are blinded to the fact that it no longer exists.
- there is a growing group of Americans who understand freedom and see the above taking place..

You know, for the most part I feel pretty damn free. I can't really think of many ways in which my life has been impinged upon by big bad brother. I feel like your fears are more mental hangups than anything based in present reality.

[doodle]

You know, for the most part I feel pretty damn free. I can't really think of many ways in which my life has been impinged upon by big bad brother. I feel like your fears are more mental hangups than anything based in present reality.

You clearly don't live in a Blue state where gubernatorial edits have made freedom non-existent. Can't go to the gym, movie theater, restaurant, live music. Can't get together with friends or family unless they already live in my house. Can't walk outside without a mask on. Yes, let freedom ring!

I don't...do you? And if so, why do you choose to live somewhere where you don't agree with the politics?

[doodle]

You know, for the most part I feel pretty damn free. I can't really think of many ways in which my life has been impinged upon by big bad brother. I feel like your fears are more mental hangups than anything based in present reality.

You clearly don't live in a Blue state where gubernatorial edits have made freedom non-existent. Can't go to the gym, movie theater, restaurant, live music. Can't get together with friends or family unless they already live in my house. Can't walk outside without a mask on. Yes, let freedom ring!

I don't...do you? And if so, why do you choose to live somewhere where you don't agree with the politics?

Because no one explained 'location independent income' to me when I was making career choices, and it's hard to drill teeth in IL while living in FL. Also, all my family and friends are within a 10 minute drive of my home. But when I retire, I do plan to establish residency elsewhere.

Fair enough...but those still sound like choices. I've just heard libertarians here talk ad nauseum about the principle of having the freedom to move if you don't agree with the politics of an area like it's such an easy process. Ive met doctors who fled Cuba, why not a dentist fleeing illinois?

[Mountaineer]

I will say, I am surprised so many "end is nigh" votes though. I just don't see any scenario where "the end" comes anytime soon.

We’ll become like France, but with crappy cheese.

Half the country viscerally hates the constitution, and other half ignores it when doing so suits them. The whole American concept is under attack, it’s considered mean and toxic. We are the last country on earth still trying to be what made us successful. But we no longer have the guts for it.

Give everyone their UBI and opiates (but I repeat myself), reeducate them, and it’ll all be juuuuust fine. I for one welcome our new insect overlords.

my current take on the political spectrum
in political power
- there are the far left who openly want America (freedom) destroyed
- there are the democrat left who want to destroy America (freedom) but who are selling the idea that they will just put the tip in, and promising its no big deal its just the tip..
- there are the right who want to rule over a destroyed America (no freedom) but they think the best way to do that is pander and give lip-service to the principals of freedom, and hope nobody notices it no longer exists
- there are a couple exceptions who are representing the people and freedom (no tyranny) but they are few and far between.
the American people
- there are the far left (useful ultra idiots) who openly want America (freedom) destroyed
- there are the democrat left (useful idiots) who buy idea that they will just put the tip in, and who believe its no big deal its just the tip..
- there are (useful idiots) on the republican right who believe the pandering and lip-service given to the principals of freedom, and are blinded to the fact that it no longer exists.
- there is a growing group of Americans who understand freedom and see the above taking place..

You know, for the most part I feel pretty damn free. I can't really think of many ways in which my life has been impinged upon by big bad brother. I feel like your fears are more mental hangups than anything based in present reality.

Free?

“Free is not how many of our citizens feel—with our overstocked medicine cabinets, burglar alarms, vast ghettos, and drug culture.”

“Having no use for such bourgeois virtues as tolerance, open-mindedness, and inclusiveness (which the revolutionary knows are usually cover-ups that allow the powerful to maintain social equilibrium rather than to be confronted and then to change), revolutionaries value honesty and confrontation—painful though they may be.”

— Resident Aliens: Life in the Christian Colony by Stanley Hauerwas

[doodle]

You know, for the most part I feel pretty damn free. I can't really think of many ways in which my life has been impinged upon by big bad brother. I feel like your fears are more mental hangups than anything based in present reality.

You clearly don't live in a Blue state where gubernatorial edits have made freedom non-existent. Can't go to the gym, movie theater, restaurant, live music. Can't get together with friends or family unless they already live in my house. Can't walk outside without a mask on. Yes, let freedom ring!

I don't...do you? And if so, why do you choose to live somewhere where you don't agree with the politics?

Because no one explained 'location independent income' to me when I was making career choices, and it's hard to drill teeth in IL while living in FL. Also, all my family and friends are within a 10 minute drive of my home. But when I retire, I do plan to establish residency elsewhere.

Fair enough...but those still sound like choices. I've just heard libertarians here talk ad nauseum about the principle of having the freedom to move if you don't agree with the politics of an area like it's such an easy process. Ive met doctors who fled Cuba, why not a dentist fleeing illinois?

Yes, it's a choice. I choose to reap the income rewards of a practice that I spent 35 years building rather than greet Walmart shoppers in FL for minimum wage. I choose to spend time with my children and grandchildren in person rather than via Zoom. It's also not Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany here in IL (although at times it can seem like it), so in spite of the high taxes and corrupt Blue politics, at this moment in time it's my choice to stay rather than flee. 10 years from now, I will prob feel differently.

Sounds to me like you would be in favor of more centralization of licensing boards. Seems like that is one of the key factors keeping you from moving.