Xan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:24 pm
Mark, have you considered getting the antibody test? I suppose it would be inconclusive if negative, but would be interesting if positive.
Around June I got tested for antibodies while passing through Portland. A couple of weeks earlier I had been extra tired for 2 days in a row (which is usually my clue that I may have been exposed to something). The test came up negative. I'll probably get it done again later this year. At the time, there hadn't been much discussion of T-Cell immunity - which is maybe a thing. I'll see if I can get tested for both.
As an aside, I use Quest Diagnostics for any sort of testing I want done. Super easy. Setup the tests and pay on line. Pick a phlebotomist nearby. In and out in 15 minutes. Results by email in a few days.
I just got out of the hotel communal swimming pool.
Mark
I guess this would be considered tangential but I have to ask.
About five years I was shocked to discover that in Massachusetts I am not allowed to order my own blood tests. Any blood tests HAVE to be ordered by a doctor. I'm not sure if it was ever sufficiently explained to me why this is the case.
Since you seem to be both everywhere in this country and world....do you have any idea how widespread this is in the United States? I think I had a choice of driving to either Vermont or New Hampshire or both to get those blood tests done without having to involve a doctor.
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
vnatale wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:57 pm
About five years I was shocked to discover that in Massachusetts I am not allowed to order my own blood tests. Any blood tests HAVE to be ordered by a doctor. I'm not sure if it was ever sufficiently explained to me why this is the case.
Since you seem to be both everywhere in this country and world....do you have any idea how widespread this is in the United States? I think I had a choice of driving to either Vermont or New Hampshire or both to get those blood tests done without having to involve a doctor.
Vinny
No idea how widespread. I think I've only had draws done in OR, CA and FL.
vnatale wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:57 pm
About five years I was shocked to discover that in Massachusetts I am not allowed to order my own blood tests. Any blood tests HAVE to be ordered by a doctor. I'm not sure if it was ever sufficiently explained to me why this is the case.
Since you seem to be both everywhere in this country and world....do you have any idea how widespread this is in the United States? I think I had a choice of driving to either Vermont or New Hampshire or both to get those blood tests done without having to involve a doctor.
Vinny
No idea how widespread. I think I've only had draws done in OR, CA and FL.
But obviously in those states you did not have to involve a doctor?
That was the only time I needed one that I wanted to get on my own. But it led to this horrendous set of events which ended up with my doctor firing me as a patient! Quite distressing to be fired by one's doctor. However, in the end, it resulted in me getting an overall better doctor / medical group situation.
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
Xan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:24 pm
Mark, have you considered getting the antibody test? I suppose it would be inconclusive if negative, but would be interesting if positive.
Around June I got tested for antibodies while passing through Portland. A couple of weeks earlier I had been extra tired for 2 days in a row (which is usually my clue that I may have been exposed to something). The test came up negative. I'll probably get it done again later this year. At the time, there hadn't been much discussion of T-Cell immunity - which is maybe a thing. I'll see if I can get tested for both.
As an aside, I use Quest Diagnostics for any sort of testing I want done. Super easy. Setup the tests and pay on line. Pick a phlebotomist nearby. In and out in 15 minutes. Results by email in a few days.
I just got out of the hotel communal swimming pool.
Mark
I guess this would be considered tangential but I have to ask.
About five years I was shocked to discover that in Massachusetts I am not allowed to order my own blood tests. Any blood tests HAVE to be ordered by a doctor. I'm not sure if it was ever sufficiently explained to me why this is the case.
Since you seem to be both everywhere in this country and world....do you have any idea how widespread this is in the United States? I think I had a choice of driving to either Vermont or New Hampshire or both to get those blood tests done without having to involve a doctor.
Vinny
Vinny, I believe it varies state to state. Here in AZ a statute was passed several years ago that permitted public access to lab without a physician order. Shortly after a few retail type labs set up shop. I've used one, when I got interested in preventive health and wanted to know about c-reactive protein and a bunch of other markers. Their menu was online and you could just walk in or call for a set appointment, your choice.
I don't quite understand why a physician order should be required in any state. I don't believe a lab test can do harm in and of itself, and so long as the lab is licensed and maintaining basic standards, I don't see much risk to protect the public from.
What a waste of health care dollars to go in for a physician visit for no other reason than to obtain a lab order for a test you knew you wanted in the first place.
I could easily see a situation where for some time period, foreign countries will require entry visas which will only be issued if the applicant can provide documentation to prove they've been vaccinated for Covid.
If that becomes the case, it will probably be the most compelling factor that will push me to get the vaccine.
For me, I don't have a hard opposition to the vaccine. Just that it doesn't make any sense for me.
But then again, I do plenty of things that don't make sense to me in furtherance of larger goals. So... while I'm not yet ready to go through an extended quarantine and wear a mask for 15 hours to get to the Amalfi coast, I will undergo a vaccine if that is the price.
Ad Orientem wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:24 pm
To the OP's original post...
Yes.
Don't you think you already had it, Ad?
I do. But I was not tested as tests at the time were only available to those who were seriously ill. So I don't know for certain. Also I don't know the duration of any immunity assuming I did have it.
Ad Orientem wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:24 pm
To the OP's original post...
Yes.
Don't you think you already had it, Ad?
I do. But I was not tested as tests at the time were only available to those who were seriously ill. So I don't know for certain. Also I don't know the duration of any immunity assuming I did have it.
Is there a mechanism whereby a vaccine could have a longer immunity duration than inoculation via infection?
Ad Orientem wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:24 pm
To the OP's original post...
Yes.
Don't you think you already had it, Ad?
I do. But I was not tested as tests at the time were only available to those who were seriously ill. So I don't know for certain. Also I don't know the duration of any immunity assuming I did have it.
Is there a mechanism whereby a vaccine could have a longer immunity duration than inoculation via infection?
No idea. That's a good question and one I may ask before getting the jab.
Mark Leavy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:59 pm
The downside of coronavirus, for me personally, is virtually nil. I have no co-morbidities and my immune system is Strong. Like bull.
The downside of a vaccine, is unknown. It could be nothing, it could be a very tiny likelihood of something horrific. The key is that it is unknown, versus coronavirus, which is pretty well understood at this point and completely benign for someone like me.
Coronavirus is so deadly, you have to take a test to know you have it!
I think there's a good good chance if we rando tested people for the flu each year at least 20% of the population would test positive. Rona doesn't seem any deadlier than the flu and could be even less contagious. The testing though......that is the real danger it seems.
Does anyone here know anyone or know anyone who knows anyone who actually died from it? I don't mean someone who was 80 with cancer or serious problems who got sick and this contributed. People in those situations often die of the flu or pneumonia, not they're underlying disease.
Xan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:24 pm
Mark, have you considered getting the antibody test? I suppose it would be inconclusive if negative, but would be interesting if positive.
Around June I got tested for antibodies while passing through Portland. A couple of weeks earlier I had been extra tired for 2 days in a row (which is usually my clue that I may have been exposed to something). The test came up negative. I'll probably get it done again later this year. At the time, there hadn't been much discussion of T-Cell immunity - which is maybe a thing. I'll see if I can get tested for both.
As an aside, I use Quest Diagnostics for any sort of testing I want done. Super easy. Setup the tests and pay on line. Pick a phlebotomist nearby. In and out in 15 minutes. Results by email in a few days.
I just got out of the hotel communal swimming pool.
Mark
I guess this would be considered tangential but I have to ask.
About five years I was shocked to discover that in Massachusetts I am not allowed to order my own blood tests. Any blood tests HAVE to be ordered by a doctor. I'm not sure if it was ever sufficiently explained to me why this is the case.
Since you seem to be both everywhere in this country and world....do you have any idea how widespread this is in the United States? I think I had a choice of driving to either Vermont or New Hampshire or both to get those blood tests done without having to involve a doctor.
Vinny
Vinny, I believe it varies state to state. Here in AZ a statute was passed several years ago that permitted public access to lab without a physician order. Shortly after a few retail type labs set up shop. I've used one, when I got interested in preventive health and wanted to know about c-reactive protein and a bunch of other markers. Their menu was online and you could just walk in or call for a set appointment, your choice.
I don't quite understand why a physician order should be required in any state. I don't believe a lab test can do harm in and of itself, and so long as the lab is licensed and maintaining basic standards, I don't see much risk to protect the public from.
What a waste of health care dollars to go in for a physician visit for no other reason than to obtain a lab order for a test you knew you wanted in the first place.
This was about five years ago so I'm not clear on all the details but....I seem to remember I would not have been charged by my doctor's office just for it to call in the test for me. I am almost certain that I was not. But I was definitely charged for the visit that she wanted to have with me once she saw I'd not been in the office for a while. It was at that meeting that she wanted me to have all kinds of tests that I'd never had. I was questioning them since they would have all been 100% self-pay for me...after that it all went downhill in our meeting wherein she stated that she no longer wanted me as a patient. The main problem was that because insurance has been mandatory in Massachusetts for years prior to the ACA the mindset is that everyone has coverage for certain things, in this case preventative tests. At the time I was in a medical cost sharing plan that while it satisfied the Massachusetts requirements for health coverage it paid nothing for preventative tests.
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
Mark Leavy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:01 pm
Yea, the entry requirement is very likely.
For me, I don't have a hard opposition to the vaccine. Just that it doesn't make any sense for me.
But then again, I do plenty of things that don't make sense to me in furtherance of larger goals. So... while I'm not yet ready to go through an extended quarantine and wear a mask for 15 hours to get to the Amalfi coast, I will undergo a vaccine if that is the price.
My world traveler proves to me more Italian than me! I'm 100% Southern Italian since my father came from where he could see Mt. Vesuvius from his village and my mother's side of the family (Amalfitano) came from less than an hour away, near the Amalfi coast.
It was only in the recent past that a cousin told me that was where that side of family came from in Italy. I had never prior heard of the Amalfi coast! Yet, our forum world traveler is evidently well familiar with it!
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
Mark Leavy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:59 pm
The downside of coronavirus, for me personally, is virtually nil. I have no co-morbidities and my immune system is Strong. Like bull.
The downside of a vaccine, is unknown. It could be nothing, it could be a very tiny likelihood of something horrific. The key is that it is unknown, versus coronavirus, which is pretty well understood at this point and completely benign for someone like me.
Coronavirus is so deadly, you have to take a test to know you have it!
I think there's a good good chance if we rando tested people for the flu each year at least 20% of the population would test positive. Rona doesn't seem any deadlier than the flu and could be even less contagious. The testing though......that is the real danger it seems.
Does anyone here know anyone or know anyone who knows anyone who actually died from it? I don't mean someone who was 80 with cancer or serious problems who got sick and this contributed. People in those situations often die of the flu or pneumonia, not they're underlying disease.
I do not directly know anyone who has died from it. Also, don't directly know that many people who have contracted it. Certainly no more than a handful, if even that many.
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
MangoMan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:55 am
@ Ad Orientum
Before you get vaccinated, at least get an antibody test. I had my annual physical last month and they just drew an extra vial of blood. The government pays the tab, no insurance required.
Sadly (assuming the results are even reliable), mine came back negative.
Yes, I was going to suggest that. Mark, you took your antibody test too soon after being sick, so worth repeating it for sure.
I wonder if a positive antibody test combined with a negative PCR test will be an acceptable substitute for the vaccine for things like mandatory masking on airplanes. Probably not. So it's mainly for your own peace of mind. The last info I saw on the infection-fatality rate (not to be confused with case-fatality rate) is 0.4%, which is higher than average for flu but well within the range of variability. And that's likely higher than it will settle out to be, given that average fatality is age 80+ with comorbid conditions, and treatments continue to improve.
Mark Leavy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:59 pm
The downside of coronavirus, for me personally, is virtually nil. I have no co-morbidities and my immune system is Strong. Like bull.
The downside of a vaccine, is unknown. It could be nothing, it could be a very tiny likelihood of something horrific. The key is that it is unknown, versus coronavirus, which is pretty well understood at this point and completely benign for someone like me.
Coronavirus is so deadly, you have to take a test to know you have it!
I think there's a good good chance if we rando tested people for the flu each year at least 20% of the population would test positive. Rona doesn't seem any deadlier than the flu and could be even less contagious. The testing though......that is the real danger it seems.
Does anyone here know anyone or know anyone who knows anyone who actually died from it? I don't mean someone who was 80 with cancer or serious problems who got sick and this contributed. People in those situations often die of the flu or pneumonia, not they're underlying disease.
I do not directly know anyone who has died from it. Also, don't directly know that many people who have contracted it. Certainly no more than a handful, if even that many.
Vinny
Thanks. As far as "pandemics" go, it's pretty weak. It's a shame so many millions of lives have been shattered by the lockdowns to prevent people from getting the flu.
But a New York Times analysis of the software’s code found that the system does more than decide in real time whether someone poses a contagion risk. It also appears to share information with the police, setting a template for new forms of automated social control that could persist long after the epidemic subsides.
between Bidens deep connection to the Chinese government (god help us if they have blackmail material on him and hunter) and the lefts love of all things authoritarian, this does not bode well for freedom..
Based on Hunter's laptop......I'm guessing when he and "the big guy" went to China, the Chinese got everything they need.
Is there a thread here where people who voted for the big guy explained why? I have got to hear the reasons................
I Shrugged wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:24 pm
Back to topic, a national poll just found that 42% of people said they will not get vaccinated.
I just saw CNN release a poll that said 42% of Americans are anti-social-distancing thought criminals.
BTW - my wife sometimes accuses me of being a misogynist and anti-immigrant, then I remind her my favorite philosopher is a chain smoking Russian woman.
We the Living is a very important read for people to see what kind of society we're headed into.
I Shrugged wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:24 pm
Back to topic, a national poll just found that 42% of people said they will not get vaccinated.
I just saw CNN release a poll that said 42% of Americans are anti-social-distancing thought criminals.
BTW - my wife sometimes accuses me of being a misogynist and anti-immigrant, then I remind her my favorite philosopher is a chain smoking Russian woman.
We the Living is a very important read for people to see what kind of society we're headed into.
I encourage everyone I know to read Anthem.
Author? Ayn Rand? If not, who?
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
