Figuring Out Religion

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pp4me
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by pp4me » Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:34 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:21 pm
"Intolerant Fears"
Reflection Questions:
1. Would you consider yourself biased to any considerable degree?
Of course I am to a very considerable degree. So are you and every other creature alive on planet earth.
2. Did Jesus deal with bias issues in His ministry? How can perfect love cast out fear?
He said he was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and called a Syrian woman who asked for healing a dog. He did despise religious hypocrites but I see no evidence any where of him preaching racial tolerance.

He also said that the fearful and unbelieving will have their place with the whore mongers and sorcerers in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone.
3. If one has deep-seated prejudices, is there a healthy way to work through them?
Reject ethnomasochism. I've heard this term used by John Derbyshire but never really thought he was talking about some kind of deep-rooted and possibly sexual fetish until now. See the video of the CEO of Chik-Fila shining the shoes of a black musician and some police even doing similar things. In sadomasochism there is a thing called "cuckolding" where a man desires to see his wife having sex with another man called a "bull" and if the "bull" is a black man that makes it even better. In CHAZ one of the leaders told all the white people to take a ten dollar bill out of their pockets and give it to a black person before they left for the evening. Reminded me of another sadomasochistic practice called "financial domination" where men get off having women drain their wallets.

If my theory is true then the #1 bestseller book called "White Fragility" might actually be an erotic masterpiece of this form of sadomasochism and that's why it's so popular and will even be required reading in schools.

So maybe the pastors of America should start warning people to stop their whoremongering practices lest they burn in the lake of fire.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by vnatale » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:18 am

Strange Rites: New Religions for a Godless World

https://www.amazon.com/Strange-Rites-Ne ... l_huc_item



JUNE 18, 2020
Strange Rites
The American Interest contributing editor Tara Burton offered her thoughts on why some Americans are moving away from traditional religion. This virtual program was sponsored by the Strand Bookstore in New York City.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?472808-1/strange-rites
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:50 pm

pp4me wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:34 pm

Reject ethnomasochism. I've heard this term used by John Derbyshire but never really thought he was talking about some kind of deep-rooted and possibly sexual fetish until now. See the video of the CEO of Chik-Fila shining the shoes of a black musician and some police even doing similar things. In sadomasochism there is a thing called "cuckolding" where a man desires to see his wife having sex with another man called a "bull" and if the "bull" is a black man that makes it even better. In CHAZ one of the leaders told all the white people to take a ten dollar bill out of their pockets and give it to a black person before they left for the evening. Reminded me of another sadomasochistic practice called "financial domination" where men get off having women drain their wallets.

If my theory is true then the #1 bestseller book called "White Fragility" might actually be an erotic masterpiece of this form of sadomasochism and that's why it's so popular and will even be required reading in schools.

So maybe the pastors of America should start warning people to stop their whoremongering practices lest they burn in the lake of fire.
I'll quote at length a relevant passage from the incredibly depressing book, The Strange Death Of Europe:
The desire to continue to feel yourself guilty arguably finds its end point in modern European liberal societies: the first societies in human history who, when they are hit, ask what they did to deserve it. For unassuageable historical guilt carries over into the present. It makes Europeans the guilty party even when they are actually hit, or worse. Several years before the latest surge in the migration crisis a left-wing Norwegian politician called Karsten Nordal Hauken (a self-described "feminist," 'anti-racist' and heterosexual) was brutally raped in his own home by a male Somali refugee. His attacker was subsequently caught and convicted with the help of DNA evidence. After serving his sentence of four and a half years the attacker was scheduled for deportation back to his native Somalia.

In a subsequent piece for the Norwegian media Hauken described the guilt that he felt for this. Indeed, he said that his first instincts were that he felt 'responsible' for his rapist's return to Somalia. 'I had a strong feeling of guilt and responsibility.' he wrote. 'I was the reason that he would not be in Norway anymore, but rather sent to a dark uncertain future in Somalia.' It is one thing to try to forgive your enemies. But it is another thing entirely to be brutally raped and then worry about the future living arrangements of your rapist. Perhaps masochism is a thing that that always afflicts a certain number of people at any one time. Perhaps the masochists, like the poor, will always be with us. But a society that rewards those with such tendencies, and indeed tells people with such tendencies that their tendencies are not just natural but a demonstration of virtue, is a society likely to produce a higher concentration of masochists than most.
If you look at it in a certain light, this is a fairly elite humblebrag. Karsten seems to be saying that he's so goddamn good-looking that the Somali couldn't help but rape him. It's a high level maneuver, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for him.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by pp4me » Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:22 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:50 pm
Perhaps masochism is a thing that that always afflicts a certain number of people at any one time. Perhaps the masochists, like the poor, will always be with us. But a society that rewards those with such tendencies, and indeed tells people with such tendencies that their tendencies are not just natural but a demonstration of virtue, is a society likely to produce a higher concentration of masochists than most.
Interesting that this ended up in the "Figuring Out Religion" thread.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Ad Orientem » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:02 pm

Orthodox Christian Chant - Requiem by the Choir of the Great Kiev Lavra in Church-Slavonic w/English subtitles. (appx 10 mins)


https://youtu.be/1aqgmbDcqj4
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:02 am

“The gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.” (See Matthew 16:13-28.) That is what Jesus promises about His Church. It is a timely promise for hearers given our current situation. The pandemic is putting Jesus’ assurance to the test. My admittedly anecdotal experience suggests that even congregations that have returned to worship are seeing a significant decline in participation. We have traditionally measured engagement in the Church and maturity of faith with Sunday morning attendance. Not only is this no longer a reliable measure, but we are also being forced to consider why and how we have been measuring things that way, as well as why we do what we are accustomed to doing as the Church every week.

As we consider such foundational questions, Jesus’ promise of endurance becomes crucially significant. Whatever the “new normal” may be, and whatever Bible study, worship, and our life together look like in the short and long term, the Church will endure. Not even the gates of Hell will prevail against it. In a context where just about everything else seems up in the air (even sports and school!), there is certainty in Christ. Two things are ultimately certain in life, and they are not death and taxes. It is Jesus’ return and the preservation of His people until that day.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:51 pm

Great Garage Theology today:

https://youtu.be/O9ddFODlz4E

Enjoy!
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Ad Orientem » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:31 pm

The Patristic Exegesis of Romans 9:1-13

https://orthodoxchristiantheology.com/2 ... ans-91-13/

The Patristic Exegesis of Romans 9:14-33

https://orthodoxchristiantheology.com/2 ... ns-914-33/

Predestination, synergism, Pelagianism, and the like... fun stuff.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:36 am

I received an interesting article today:

The Promise Is Not Idle

If they pack the Supreme Court, it might be the end of the republic.

Will you still go to church that Sunday?

This week James, brother of our Lord, convinced me that "Seek ye first the Kingdom of Jesus and all these other things will be added unto you" is a promise.

The problem is never that you believe the right things too little. It is that you believe the wrong things too much.

What story runs your mind?

What authority set your clock?

Or, maybe best, who or what is setting the timestamps by which you are taking measure of your soul?

"Be well," James reminds, "Even as you face persecutions of many kinds..."

Wisdom doesn't come just the way you'd like it. She comes as she is.

If evil men do bad stuff, the King isn't sleeping.

Neither are you.

"Let fortitude have its work of fulfillment, that you might be whole."

I repeat: it's a promise.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Xan » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:40 am

Well said, Mountaineer.

I was thinking just the other day that too often we're all wrapped up in the Big Problems. Who is going to be President? What's happening with the Supreme Court? How can we Fix Society?

That really isn't our calling. Our calling is to worry about the small things. To be a good parent, husband, friend, neighbor. To help the people we've been given to help. To love the people we've been given to love. To make OUR little corner of the world better. Let God worry about the big picture.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:59 pm

Xan wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:40 am
Well said, Mountaineer.

I was thinking just the other day that too often we're all wrapped up in the Big Problems. Who is going to be President? What's happening with the Supreme Court? How can we Fix Society?

That really isn't our calling. Our calling is to worry about the small things. To be a good parent, husband, friend, neighbor. To help the people we've been given to help. To love the people we've been given to love. To make OUR little corner of the world better. Let God worry about the big picture.
Well said Bro!

.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Tortoise » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:17 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:36 am
If they pack the Supreme Court, it might be the end of the republic.

Will you still go to church that Sunday?
Not if the government forces churches to close that Sunday. (That already happened earlier this year.)
Xan wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:40 am
I was thinking just the other day that too often we're all wrapped up in the Big Problems. Who is going to be President? What's happening with the Supreme Court? How can we Fix Society?

That really isn't our calling. Our calling is to worry about the small things. To be a good parent, husband, friend, neighbor. To help the people we've been given to help. To love the people we've been given to love. To make OUR little corner of the world better. Let God worry about the big picture.
I agree that we can't do everything ourselves, but I also think that Christians often take "Let God take care of the big picture" a bit too far.

For example, the men who founded the U.S. were evidently thinking a bit beyond their own little corner of the world when they decided to declare a new nation under a new type of government. It was inspired by God, but men had to think about the big picture and take action to make it happen.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Ad Orientem » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:40 pm

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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Xan » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:51 am

The 16th-century hymn, From God Can Nothing Move Me. Written during an outbreak of plague in Erfurt. The pastor who wrote it stayed behind and he wrote this to comfort those fleeing. Very topical these days.

Note the direction of things: it isn't about us clinging to God with our own strength. It's about how HE will not step aside.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGNZ3UgOtHk

First verse:
From God can nothing move me;
He will not step aside
But gently will reprove me
And be my constant guide.
He stretches out His hand
In evening and in morning,
My life with grace adorning
Wherever I may stand.

A fantastic interview that gets into the hymn and its history in detail:
https://issuesetc.org/2020/10/01/2752-t ... n-10-1-20/
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:45 am

Happy All Saints Day

"For All the Saints"
November 1, 2020
"Oh, blest communion, fellowship divine! We feebly struggle, they in glory shine; Yet all are one in Thee, for all are Thine, Alleluia! Alleluia!

"And when the fight is fierce, the warfare long, Steals on the ear the distant triumph song, And hearts are brave again, and arms are strong. Alleluia! Alleluia!"

Today is All Saints' Day, the church festival on which we remember faithful believers who have entered into glory before us. They are the "blest communion, fellowship divine" who enjoy their rest in the presence of their Savior. We share in that blest communion because we too are saints, right here, right now. The apostle Paul addresses the Christians in Corinth with the designation shared by all who confess Jesus as Lord: "To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours" (1 Corinthians 1:2). We are not called saints because we deserve the title. We are saints—holy people, a people set apart—because God in His grace chose us and bestowed sainthood on us.

The saints in glory fought and served and struggled on earth and now they rest from their labors. We, the saints on earth, still "feebly struggle," while they "in glory shine." The fight is fierce for us as, in faith, we follow our Savior and endure temptation, illness, loss, pain, and persecution. Yet even for us the fight has already been won. The victory belongs to our Lord, described in the hymn as our "Captain in the well-fought fight." Our Savior suffered and died on the cross, the Captain who sacrificed Himself to save His troops. But on the first Easter morning, His empty tomb revealed that He had risen from the dead! Our Captain has conquered in the fight and through faith in Him, we too will rise from death!

When our earthly warfare is long, "the distant triumph song" steals on the ear. The triumph song echoes from the past to announce Jesus' redeeming death, His glorious resurrection and the hope and promise of eternal life for all who believe in Him. Resounding from the future, the song blends with the "cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God" that will announce the return of our conquering Lord (see 1 Thessalonians 4:16). On that great day, as the King of glory passes by, we, in the words of the hymn, will "triumphant rise in bright array." Raised up from death, we will join the saints in glory and so be forever with the Lord.

Through faith in Jesus Christ, we are saints, today and every day, God's holy people, set apart to serve and strive in His Name. However long or fierce the fight, our "hearts are brave again and arms are strong" because always ringing in our ears is that "distant triumph song."

THE PRAYER: Lord Jesus, we give thanks to You for the saints who now rest in Your presence. Sustain us in our earthly fight until the day when we too stand before Your throne. Amen.

This Daily Devotion was written by Dr. Carol Geisler. It is based on the hymn, "For All the Saints," which is found on page 677 of the Lutheran Service Book.

Reflection Questions:

1. Is it important to remember and honor believers who have died?

2. How are we one—or connected—with the saints who have died before us?

3. What's something you can do to honor Christians who have lived, served, and died?
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Ad Orientem » Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:45 pm

Lord Save Thy People

https://youtu.be/9mim0kgjsDo
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:52 pm

If Keith Richards had volunteered to be exsanguinated in order to miraculously save the entire human race... what do you guys think? New religion insta-founded, or would he just be incorporated into an existing one?
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mark Leavy » Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:05 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:52 pm
If Keith Richards had volunteered to be exsanguinated in order to miraculously save the entire human race... what do you guys think? New religion insta-founded, or would he just be incorporated into an existing one?
I'm mostly bumping this for the marvelous nexus of Keith Richards and "exsanguinated", but yes. That seems even more valuable than parabiosis.

Sign me up. One ducat per dose.

Mark
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by jalanlong » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:41 am

moda0306 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:24 am
Xan wrote: God won't violate His justice nor His promises.  The wages of sin is death.  We were told that before the Fall and chose to do it anyway.  That can't just be hand-waved away.  Fortunately for us, God Himself chose to come down and bear the penalty on our behalf!

As for having "other people" forgive us instead of God, are you talking about a priest forgiving at confession, or other people in general?  At least in the Lutheran world, part of the rite of private confession is "Do you believe that my forgiveness is God's forgiveness?", and in corporate confession, it goes something like, "In the stead and by the command of my Lord Jesus Christ, I forgive you all your sins" (emphasis added).  So in that case, the pastor's forgiveness IS God's forgiveness.
How do you know all this?  Of all the religious texts (and interpretations thereof), how did you pick Christianity?  How do you know that you are correct?  How do you know Jesus was God's son, and not just a good guy who thought he was?  How do you know the bible has any accuracy at all, if certain aspects of it are provably false, and other aspects of it are reinterpreted to be more palatable to our current moral code (including the moral code of almost all Christians... slavery is bad... pork is ok to eat... etc).

Is it just a feeling you have inside?  And if so, that's ok, but I just want to be clear that this is very subjective, and a LOT of people "just have feelings inside" that lead them to different conclusions of faith... so I guess I'd have to ask, "How do I know if my 'gut feeling' is correct?"
I am going to make a wild guess that most people's religion comes from the religion of their family and of the dominant religion of the region in which they were born/grew up.

I always tease my uncle how incredibly lucky he was that the one "true" religion just happens to be the one his parents believed and taught him and is the dominant religion in East Texas/West Louisiana where he lives. Amazingly lucky I would say.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Ad Orientem » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:00 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:41 am
moda0306 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:24 am
Xan wrote: God won't violate His justice nor His promises.  The wages of sin is death.  We were told that before the Fall and chose to do it anyway.  That can't just be hand-waved away.  Fortunately for us, God Himself chose to come down and bear the penalty on our behalf!

As for having "other people" forgive us instead of God, are you talking about a priest forgiving at confession, or other people in general?  At least in the Lutheran world, part of the rite of private confession is "Do you believe that my forgiveness is God's forgiveness?", and in corporate confession, it goes something like, "In the stead and by the command of my Lord Jesus Christ, I forgive you all your sins" (emphasis added).  So in that case, the pastor's forgiveness IS God's forgiveness.
How do you know all this?  Of all the religious texts (and interpretations thereof), how did you pick Christianity?  How do you know that you are correct?  How do you know Jesus was God's son, and not just a good guy who thought he was?  How do you know the bible has any accuracy at all, if certain aspects of it are provably false, and other aspects of it are reinterpreted to be more palatable to our current moral code (including the moral code of almost all Christians... slavery is bad... pork is ok to eat... etc).

Is it just a feeling you have inside?  And if so, that's ok, but I just want to be clear that this is very subjective, and a LOT of people "just have feelings inside" that lead them to different conclusions of faith... so I guess I'd have to ask, "How do I know if my 'gut feeling' is correct?"
I am going to make a wild guess that most people's religion comes from the religion of their family and of the dominant religion of the region in which they were born/grew up.

I always tease my uncle how incredibly lucky he was that the one "true" religion just happens to be the one his parents believed and taught him and is the dominant religion in East Texas/West Louisiana where he lives. Amazingly lucky I would say.

That's a fairly good point. I was raised Roman Catholic and eventually migrated to Orthodoxy. But it was a long journey (25 years give or take) and I don't see a lot of people raised in a particular religious confession who later abandon it. It does happen. But not all that frequently. Even when people reach the point where they disagree more than they agree with their faith tradition, they rarely move to another, It can create a lot of emotional and psychological stress. Conservative Episcopalians are my favorite example. For the last fifty years there has been a running joke about the Episcopalian who tells his wife at the end of each service "I swear one more nutty innovation and we're out of here."

In my purely anecdotal experience people are more likely to abandon religion entirely than change churches.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Ad Orientem » Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:55 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:53 pm
Is switching from one incarnation of Christianity to another really 'changing religions' ? It's one thing to go from Christianity to Judaism or Islam, or vice versa, but the basic premise of Jesus is the overarching tenant of the whole thing, no?

It would depend on how much importance one places on doctrinal issues. If they carry great weight, then yes, it's a big deal. For latitudinarians and broad church types, it can be little more than a matter of personal taste in style of worship and so on.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by pp4me » Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:33 pm

Ad Orientem wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:55 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:53 pm
Is switching from one incarnation of Christianity to another really 'changing religions' ? It's one thing to go from Christianity to Judaism or Islam, or vice versa, but the basic premise of Jesus is the overarching tenant of the whole thing, no?

It would depend on how much importance one places on doctrinal issues. If they carry great weight, then yes, it's a big deal. For latitudinarians and broad church types, it can be little more than a matter of personal taste in style of worship and so on.
I changed churches probably about 10 times during my religious period. Eventually I abandoned it altogether.

After watching debates between Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris I might actually still be a Christian according to Jordan Peterson's definition and I have no problem with him saying so unlike Mr. Harris. I bear no ill will towards the religion in general and believe it even has much to commend it if you don't have to take it as literal truth. When that becomes the criteria for avoiding eternal damnation I have to politely opt out of that way of thinking.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Ad Orientem » Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:43 pm

pp4me wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:33 pm
Ad Orientem wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:55 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:53 pm
Is switching from one incarnation of Christianity to another really 'changing religions' ? It's one thing to go from Christianity to Judaism or Islam, or vice versa, but the basic premise of Jesus is the overarching tenant of the whole thing, no?

It would depend on how much importance one places on doctrinal issues. If they carry great weight, then yes, it's a big deal. For latitudinarians and broad church types, it can be little more than a matter of personal taste in style of worship and so on.
I changed churches probably about 10 times during my religious period. Eventually I abandoned it altogether.

After watching debates between Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris I might actually still be a Christian according to Jordan Peterson's definition and I have no problem with him saying so unlike Mr. Harris. I bear no ill will towards the religion in general and believe it even has much to commend it if you don't have to take it as literal truth. When that becomes the criteria for avoiding eternal damnation I have to politely opt out of that way of thinking.

Sounds very broad church, maybe bordering on classical deism. All of which reminds me of the old question; what happens when you cross a Jehovah's Witness with a Unitarian Universalist?

You get someone who will knock on your door, but can't tell you why.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by pp4me » Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:53 pm

Ad Orientem wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:43 pm
pp4me wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:33 pm
Ad Orientem wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:55 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:53 pm
Is switching from one incarnation of Christianity to another really 'changing religions' ? It's one thing to go from Christianity to Judaism or Islam, or vice versa, but the basic premise of Jesus is the overarching tenant of the whole thing, no?

It would depend on how much importance one places on doctrinal issues. If they carry great weight, then yes, it's a big deal. For latitudinarians and broad church types, it can be little more than a matter of personal taste in style of worship and so on.
I changed churches probably about 10 times during my religious period. Eventually I abandoned it altogether.

After watching debates between Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris I might actually still be a Christian according to Jordan Peterson's definition and I have no problem with him saying so unlike Mr. Harris. I bear no ill will towards the religion in general and believe it even has much to commend it if you don't have to take it as literal truth. When that becomes the criteria for avoiding eternal damnation I have to politely opt out of that way of thinking.

Sounds very broad church, maybe bordering on classical deism. All of which reminds me of the old question; what happens when you cross a Jehovah's Witness with a Unitarian Universalist?

You get someone who will knock on your door, but can't tell you why.
In my Lutheran incarnation (ALC) I actually volunteered to go door to door visiting people who had attended our church and made the mistake of identifying themselves by filling out a card with their names and addresses.

When they asked why they should go to our church rather than some other one I have to admit to being a lousy salesman because I had no real answer for them.
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Ad Orientem
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Ad Orientem » Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:31 pm

Trumpism is not a philosophy or a movement. It's a cult.
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