Election Day/Night Open Thread

[Maddy]

I can't count the number of discussion board posters who have declared their disgust with this country and threatened to move to Canada--only to find out that Canada does not want them. Turns out the kinder, gentler, socialist nation only wants people with significant assets who can prove they will be a net benefit to, rather than a drag, on the system. Go figure.

[doodle]

Skilled worker or through current employer with international opportunities....that's my plan

Btw, where did Lindsey Graham come up with 500,000 dollars to donate to Trump's legal fund?

[doodle]

Biden just took lead in Georgia, should have penn. sealed up by this afternoon.

[Cortopassi]

I hope I am not jumping the gun here:

the bee sums up every argument against trump i have seen in the last few days...
https://babylonbee.com/news/opinion-tru ... kes-it-bad

[yankees60]

I hope I am not jumping the gun here:

Love it!

Vinny

[sophie]

I think we're just about done here:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... smsnnews11

It's the mail-in votes slowly being added to the full vote count. They're something like 70% for Biden.

I hope Trump accepts this gracefully. After he leaves the White House, he could do a lot of good, as in literally saving our democratic election process, by shining a spotlight on the inappropriately biased behavior of the mainstream media, and working behind the scenes to institute rules such as the one I suggested about classifying biased coverage as a PAC-equivalent campaign contribution. If he goes the prolonged court battle route, he might very well make it impossible for him to be any kind of a positive force after he leaves office, let alone a potential 2024 candidate.

As I'd said, I think the reason Trump lost is partly his personality issues but largely due to the fact that the media were relentlessly and actively campaigning against him. Trumpism, i.e. a brand of populism aimed at improving quality of life for the 99% via less government rather than more, is exactly the right path for the Republicans going forward - I just pray they know this and follow through. I love how that message played well with minorities....that's the best news for the Republican party in decades. They literally have to follow Trump's lead here or they will never put a president in office again, with their standard < 10% minority support.

[Cortopassi]

sophie, I hope you are right, but I don't expect it. I sort of expect the next two months to be scorched earth policy.

Then he gets himself a TV and/or radio show and goes exactly where he belongs, entertainment.

[Mountaineer]

sophie, I hope you are right, but I don't expect it. I sort of expect the next two months to be scorched earth policy.

Then he gets himself a TV and/or radio show and goes exactly where he belongs, entertainment.

I’m thinking Harris will nominate him for the Supreme Court. Any bet takers on that?

[doodle]

I too have my doubts about a peaceful transition.

I don't disagree about the mainstream media....of which fox I guess is now a part as well. Unfortunately controversy and opinion journalism seem to sell. Once again, short of regulation, the market for media seems like it will become even more polarizing and along with it any unity in our populace. Having a two party system dominated by big money interests is only fuel to the fire.

As far as completely insane QAnon type outlandishness however that is almost completely reserved for.the right. The left wing media definitely has an agenda that shapes narratives and leads to cherry picking stories, but the right wing all out fabricates their stories.

Democracy dies without honest accurate information. I personally see increasing polarization in this country with trending narrative towards more leftward leaning power balance based on age / demographic trends.

[doodle]

sophie, I hope you are right, but I don't expect it. I sort of expect the next two months to be scorched earth policy.

Then he gets himself a TV and/or radio show and goes exactly where he belongs, entertainment.

Of course, political entertainment opinion shows have a powerful effect on the stability of our nation

[Xan]

Why were the polls so wrong? Rod Dreher thinks it's "ketman", which is the practice of publicly adopting the required orthodoxy (originally Islam) while inwardly not being a believer. This was also required under Communism, of course. And we saw it this summer with shopkeepers hanging "BLM" signs in order to try to not get looted.

Americans, having seen the Left destroy people's lives for deviation from the orthodoxy, are now feeling pressure to conform to that orthodoxy from many corners. I think it may even be unconscious, it just becomes a reflex to carry the "woke" flag. But we still have a secret ballot, thank God, and that's what we saw this week.

Well worth a read.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... -wokeness/

[doodle]

Yeah due to urban bias and people misreporting their true vote I think not too innacurate. Trump being the candidate exacerbated that. Sorry, it's embarrassing or at least exhausting to explain why you would vote for such a mentally disturbed person.

[Xan]

Yeah due to urban bias and people misreporting their true vote I think not too innacurate. Trump being the candidate exacerbated that. Sorry, it's embarrassing or at least exhausting to explain why you would vote for such a mentally disturbed person.

No, it's not just Trump. See how badly the polls missed on Susan Collins, for example.

As the article says:

Left-wing identity politics has conquered all the institutions of middle-class professional life. If you want to succeed in the corporate world, academia, media, and the rest, you had better be seen as woke — that is, as a supporter of hardline ID pol ideology. Again, I know this in part because I hear from these people all the time, mostly within academia. They are afraid, and they’re right to be afraid.

[glennds]

Why were the polls so wrong? Rod Dreher thinks it's "ketman", which is the practice of publicly adopting the required orthodoxy (originally Islam) while inwardly not being a believer. This was also required under Communism, of course. And we saw it this summer with shopkeepers hanging "BLM" signs in order to try to not get looted.

There was another thread here that quoted a conservative YouTuber on a theory that the polls were off because Trump supporters were faking support for Biden for "fun", the reward being the look of disappointment on the Biden supporters' faces when the election results came in. It seemed like many agreed.

It gets to the larger question about how and where polls can be fallible, especially in the age of social media. I wonder if there is an accuracy difference in polling depending upon how the information is gathered (i.e. online vs. voice vs. in-person). If we're going to take these polls seriously in the future, I hope someone studies this.

[Xan]

Are polls actually helpful? Would we be better off without them? What if we evaluated each candidate on his merits rather than trying to base it on what everyone else thinks? What if pre-election coverage were about policies and speeches and philosophies rather than about a horse race?

[ahhrunforthehills]

Are polls actually helpful? Would we be better off without them? What if we evaluated each candidate on his merits rather than trying to base it on what everyone else thinks? What if pre-election coverage were about policies and speeches and philosophies rather than about a horse race?

I was just thinking this too. Also, why is it illegal to gamble on the outcome of US elections? I assume it is to lower the chance that they will be “fixed”. But at the same time polls that can shift the outcome are okay. Go figure.

[yankees60]

Are polls actually helpful? Would we be better off without them? What if we evaluated each candidate on his merits rather than trying to base it on what everyone else thinks? What if pre-election coverage were about policies and speeches and philosophies rather than about a horse race?

Same reason why when television first came out it was looked upon as having great educational opportunity.

I'm not swayed by polls. I vote for who I choose to vote for no matter what polls say.

Getting back to my first sentence. The focus is on the horse race and not the policies and other because that is what the audience clearly wants. To be entertained.

In the age of the internet everyone is totally free to pursue as much information as he or she wants and to not just rely upon television media.

Vinny

[doodle]

Woke culture is an issue. The left wing is inhabitated by some people with troubling idealogies. We need rational dialogue...that doesn't emanate from Trump however. We need to focus on the middle instead of devoting so much attention to the fringes.

[pp4me]

Speaking of polls, did anyone see the answers given by voters in the early exit polls on Fox News? It may have been the same on the other networks too but I was only watching Fox and when I started seeing the answers after early voting I came to the conclusion that it was all over and Biden was, indeed, going to win in a landslide. On practically every question, it seemed as though the vast majority of voters agreed with Democrats on what issues were most important to them.

Then the real results came in and it left me scratching my head.

So what the heck is going on here?

Was this done deliberately to discourage Trump voters? I think that is a possibility but we'll never know for sure.

Were the polls only conducted in precincts known to favor Biden?

Did Trump supporters either refuse to answer the questions or give false answers?

I think these should also be eliminated along with the pre-election polls.

[ahhrunforthehills]

Are polls actually helpful? Would we be better off without them? What if we evaluated each candidate on his merits rather than trying to base it on what everyone else thinks? What if pre-election coverage were about policies and speeches and philosophies rather than about a horse race?

Same reason why when television first came out it was looked upon as having great educational opportunity.

I'm not swayed by polls. I vote for who I choose to vote for no matter what polls say.

Getting back to my first sentence. The focus is on the horse race and not the policies and other because that is what the audience clearly wants. To be entertained.

In the age of the internet everyone is totally free to pursue as much information as he or she wants and to not just rely upon television media.

Vinny

Are we really free? My favorite quote comes to mind. It goes something like...

"My creator created me so well that I believe I am in charge of myself".

Hot 23 year old? Try not to look.

Those that control the media control the carrot and the stick. If Youtube can figure out how to maximize the amount of time you spend on their platform through machine learning and AI, they can certainly evolve to incrementally get many people to change their opinion.

It is simple really. We need to engage our frontal lobes to have reasoned discussion and be open to persuasion. When we perceive an argument is coming, our frontal lobes shut down and our brain basically activates its fight or flight response. Once that happens, you are stuck arguing with someone's FEELINGS. Persuasion has now become infinitely more difficult.

Youtube simply needs to recommend videos to you that you already agree with to keep your frontal lobes activated. Then, over time, show you content that not only "affirms" your views, but also creates a "bridge" to make you more receptive to their views.

For example, Youtube knows that Doodle hates Trump. Overtime, they recommend videos:

Video 1. Youtube recommends video "Trump is crazy"
Video 2. "Trump is a narcissist psychopath"
Video 3. "Trump is a narcisst psychopath... just like other corporate CEOs"
Video 4. "When Trump is a CEO again, he will be infinitely more dangerous"
Video 5. "Trump will be even more dangerous as CEO than he was as president"
Video 6. "Democrats might be safer with 4 more years of Trump in a gridlocked Washington"

This transition could slowly happen over hundreds of videos and be much more subtle. This has nothing to do with Doodle personally. We are all manipulated in the same ways because our brains have the same physiology.

We are all animals. Animals are predictable.

[yankees60]

Are polls actually helpful? Would we be better off without them? What if we evaluated each candidate on his merits rather than trying to base it on what everyone else thinks? What if pre-election coverage were about policies and speeches and philosophies rather than about a horse race?

Same reason why when television first came out it was looked upon as having great educational opportunity.

I'm not swayed by polls. I vote for who I choose to vote for no matter what polls say.

Getting back to my first sentence. The focus is on the horse race and not the policies and other because that is what the audience clearly wants. To be entertained.

In the age of the internet everyone is totally free to pursue as much information as he or she wants and to not just rely upon television media.

Vinny

Are we really free? My favorite quote comes to mind. It goes something like...

"My creator created me so well that I believe I am in charge of myself".

Hot 23 year old? Try not to look.

Those that control the media control the carrot and the stick. If Youtube can figure out how to maximize the amount of time you spend on their platform through machine learning and AI, they can certainly evolve to incrementally get many people to change their opinion.

It is simple really. We need to engage our frontal lobes to have reasoned discussion and be open to persuasion. When we perceive an argument is coming, our frontal lobes shut down and our brain basically activates its fight or flight response. Once that happens, you are stuck arguing with someone's FEELINGS. Persuasion has now become infinitely more difficult.

Youtube simply needs to recommend videos to you that you already agree with to keep your frontal lobes activated. Then, over time, show you content that not only "affirms" your views, but also creates a "bridge" to make you more receptive to their views.

For example, Youtube knows that Doodle hates Trump. Overtime, they recommend videos:

Video 1. Youtube recommends video "Trump is crazy"
Video 2. "Trump is a narcissist psychopath"
Video 3. "Trump is a narcisst psychopath... just like other corporate CEOs"
Video 4. "When Trump is a CEO again, he will be infinitely more dangerous"
Video 5. "Trump will be even more dangerous as CEO than he was as president"
Video 6. "Democrats might be safer with 4 more years of Trump in a gridlocked Washington"

This transition could slowly happen over hundreds of videos and be much more subtle. This has nothing to do with Doodle personally. We are all manipulated in the same ways because our brains have the same physiology.

We are all animals. Animals are predictable.

I do believe that I am free.

I buy tons and tons of items from Amazon. And, each time I open Amazon there are recommendation for me. And, I never, ever look at them. Each time I go to Amazon I am either looking for a specific item like a book title or something which I'm going to search within Amazon to find. But I'm never going to look at their recommendations. That is not the way I buy.

Youtube? I generally only use it to find music songs or performances. Neither that I'm generally going to watch. But only listen to.

Movies are about the only videos that I will give my full 100% undivided attention to.

Otherwise, it is like now.

Listening to C-Span on the other computer while also listening to MSNBC on the TV. If nothing big was going on with politics now I'd be listening to music.

I'm also at the same time using my finger for the obvious here. When I'm done with this response I'll be back to using my eyes to continue reading unread things in this forum.

I'm extremely reluctant to give my BOTH my ears and eyes to any videos. Or, anything for that matter.

Is everyone else a slave to just what is put in front of them?

Vinny

[yankees60]

From "Le Monde":

Capture.JPG (59.06 KiB) Viewed 4281 times

[doodle]

Are polls actually helpful? Would we be better off without them? What if we evaluated each candidate on his merits rather than trying to base it on what everyone else thinks? What if pre-election coverage were about policies and speeches and philosophies rather than about a horse race?

Same reason why when television first came out it was looked upon as having great educational opportunity.

I'm not swayed by polls. I vote for who I choose to vote for no matter what polls say.

Getting back to my first sentence. The focus is on the horse race and not the policies and other because that is what the audience clearly wants. To be entertained.

In the age of the internet everyone is totally free to pursue as much information as he or she wants and to not just rely upon television media.

Vinny

Are we really free? My favorite quote comes to mind. It goes something like...

"My creator created me so well that I believe I am in charge of myself".

Hot 23 year old? Try not to look.

Those that control the media control the carrot and the stick. If Youtube can figure out how to maximize the amount of time you spend on their platform through machine learning and AI, they can certainly evolve to incrementally get many people to change their opinion.

It is simple really. We need to engage our frontal lobes to have reasoned discussion and be open to persuasion. When we perceive an argument is coming, our frontal lobes shut down and our brain basically activates its fight or flight response. Once that happens, you are stuck arguing with someone's FEELINGS. Persuasion has now become infinitely more difficult.

Youtube simply needs to recommend videos to you that you already agree with to keep your frontal lobes activated. Then, over time, show you content that not only "affirms" your views, but also creates a "bridge" to make you more receptive to their views.

For example, Youtube knows that Doodle hates Trump. Overtime, they recommend videos:

Video 1. Youtube recommends video "Trump is crazy"
Video 2. "Trump is a narcissist psychopath"
Video 3. "Trump is a narcisst psychopath... just like other corporate CEOs"
Video 4. "When Trump is a CEO again, he will be infinitely more dangerous"
Video 5. "Trump will be even more dangerous as CEO than he was as president"
Video 6. "Democrats might be safer with 4 more years of Trump in a gridlocked Washington"

This transition could slowly happen over hundreds of videos and be much more subtle. This has nothing to do with Doodle personally. We are all manipulated in the same ways because our brains have the same physiology.

We are all animals. Animals are predictable.

Ahh now you are on to the truth....same with food. They know how to tap into the brain in the same way. Now we are dumb as shit and obese.....but hey! It's the free market! It's doing wonderful things! Dont question it at all! It's gotta be all or nothing! No room for subtlety.....no tinkering!! You'll fuck up the machine! ..

[flyingpylon]

Are polls actually helpful? Would we be better off without them? What if we evaluated each candidate on his merits rather than trying to base it on what everyone else thinks? What if pre-election coverage were about policies and speeches and philosophies rather than about a horse race?

Same reason why when television first came out it was looked upon as having great educational opportunity.

I'm not swayed by polls. I vote for who I choose to vote for no matter what polls say.

Getting back to my first sentence. The focus is on the horse race and not the policies and other because that is what the audience clearly wants. To be entertained.

In the age of the internet everyone is totally free to pursue as much information as he or she wants and to not just rely upon television media.

Vinny

Are we really free? My favorite quote comes to mind. It goes something like...

"My creator created me so well that I believe I am in charge of myself".

Hot 23 year old? Try not to look.

Those that control the media control the carrot and the stick. If Youtube can figure out how to maximize the amount of time you spend on their platform through machine learning and AI, they can certainly evolve to incrementally get many people to change their opinion.

It is simple really. We need to engage our frontal lobes to have reasoned discussion and be open to persuasion. When we perceive an argument is coming, our frontal lobes shut down and our brain basically activates its fight or flight response. Once that happens, you are stuck arguing with someone's FEELINGS. Persuasion has now become infinitely more difficult.

Youtube simply needs to recommend videos to you that you already agree with to keep your frontal lobes activated. Then, over time, show you content that not only "affirms" your views, but also creates a "bridge" to make you more receptive to their views.

For example, Youtube knows that Doodle hates Trump. Overtime, they recommend videos:

Video 1. Youtube recommends video "Trump is crazy"
Video 2. "Trump is a narcissist psychopath"
Video 3. "Trump is a narcisst psychopath... just like other corporate CEOs"
Video 4. "When Trump is a CEO again, he will be infinitely more dangerous"
Video 5. "Trump will be even more dangerous as CEO than he was as president"
Video 6. "Democrats might be safer with 4 more years of Trump in a gridlocked Washington"

This transition could slowly happen over hundreds of videos and be much more subtle. This has nothing to do with Doodle personally. We are all manipulated in the same ways because our brains have the same physiology.

We are all animals. Animals are predictable.

People interested in this should watch “The Social Dilemma”. I think it’s on Netflix. There are others like it.

The manipulators have probably won this round but after the last 4 years more people have become aware of them. Guess we’ll see how it works out.

[sophie]

Tortoise, where in the WSJ Customer Center do you click to cancel the subscription? I can't find it. Only an option to "suspend" it for a fixed amount of time.

Unless...do you live in California, Maine, or Vermont? Then you have an online option. Everyone else has to call. Annoying!