Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

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Maddy
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by Maddy » Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:44 pm

Just as burkhas discourage men from interacting with women, masks inhibit people from interacting with one another. If a person smiles underneath a mask, you probably won't know it, so anything more than a fleeting glance at the grocery store is likely to be interpreted as hostile. Ever noticed how people in masks avoid making normal eye contact? Interestingly, some recently publicized public health guidelines actually direct people to avoid making eye contact with others!

There's an agenda behind all this which is not hard to see--especially because the very same techniques of separating people and making them distrustful of one another have been used in the most repressive regimes to isolate people, making them feel vulnerable and susceptible to manipulation by governments who claim the ability to protect them.
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by Tortoise » Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:59 pm

Maddy wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:44 pm
Interestingly, some recently publicized public health guidelines actually direct people to avoid making eye contact with others!
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by Kbg » Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:09 pm

Occam’s razor...or it’s a good public health practice for an aerosol borne virus pandemic.

Think I’ll go with that.

But thank you for fighting for my freedom by not wearing a mask. The world is safer for democracy due to your valiant efforts.
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:16 pm

Another perspective on masks, and Trump (pardon the word thinker, it may trigger the emoters ;) ):

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/20 ... lness.html

Many Democrats have responded to news of Trump’s Wuhan virus diagnosis by blaming him. He wouldn’t wear a mask, they say, so he did this to himself – and so did the other Republicans who have tested positive. There are two problems with this claim: (1) Trump and the other Republicans did wear masks or were in carefully screened and tested environments; (2) there’s no evidence that the masks that most people wear make any difference.

Normal, decent people, upon hearing about President Trump’s Wuhan virus diagnosis, wished him well. That included all conservatives and a small number of Democrats. Mostly, though, Democrats obsessed about masks and blamed Trump for his illness. They then extended this blame to those other Republicans who were diagnosed with the virus.

For example, CNN’s Tapper ranted about how Republicans, from Trump down, brought this on themselves. Rep. Tim Ryan (D-OH) attacked Trump, not only for not wearing a mask but also for non-payment of taxes (a lie) and for paying off porn stars (which Trump did to rid himself of Stormy Daniels, who admitted she lied because she was a nuisance). Interestingly, Rep. Ryan has been silent about Hunter Biden impregnating a stripper and spending his ill-gotten gains on Eastern European prostitutes.


Click the link to read the entire article.
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by dualstow » Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:46 pm

I like wearing masks. I have 5 or more now. I can’t make others wear them, but I’m going to miss these masks when they’re gone, especially when I get occasional bouts of acne.
As for smiling, I have learned to do it with my eyes (and crow’s feet)
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by Mark Leavy » Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:47 pm

I'm going to miss hot bartenders in black velvet masks and black nitrile gloves.
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:02 pm

dualstow wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:46 pm
I like wearing masks. I have 5 or more now. I can’t make others wear them, but I’m going to miss these masks when they’re gone, especially when I get occasional bouts of acne.
As for smiling, I have learned to do it with my eyes (and crow’s feet)
Oh my dualstow, do you need a care package of masks? I thought people were stocking up on them like toilet paper. Hopefully you meant 5 gross ... my heart is palpitating with concern for you. And, sorry you have crow's feet. Aye, I used to be that way but nevermore, I progressed to raven's feet.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:03 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:47 pm
I'm going to miss hot bartenders in black velvet masks and black nitrile gloves.
Say hi to Alana Miles for me. :)
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by dualstow » Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:07 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:02 pm
dualstow wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:46 pm
I like wearing masks. I have 5 or more now. I can’t make others wear them, but I’m going to miss these masks when they’re gone, especially when I get occasional bouts of acne.
As for smiling, I have learned to do it with my eyes (and crow’s feet)
Oh my dualstow, do you need a care package of masks? I thought people were stocking up on them like toilet paper. Hopefully you meant 5 gross ... my heart is palpitating with concern for you. And, sorry you have crow's feet. Aye, I used to be that way but nevermore, I progressed to raven's feet.
Five washable/reusable ones. O0
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by Mark Leavy » Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:11 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:02 pm
nevermore, I progressed to raven's feet.
Quoth the Raven
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by dualstow » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:20 pm

Whoa! Where is that, Mark?
Incredible!
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by Mark Leavy » Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:04 pm

dualstow wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:20 pm
Whoa! Where is that, Mark?
Incredible!
Last year. About this time in Fort Lauderdale.
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:15 am

A guy on Triggernometry made the observation that people treat the mask mandate in the UK like Iranian (he grew up in Iran) women treat the headscarf mandate. They wear them around their necks until they see the police, then they put them on :P
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:16 pm

The point made in the opening post is exactly correct. Sadly, it's not only liberals who have prostrated themselves to this cult. Yes, the face diaper is the sign of submission.

For anyone who thinks this is about public health, please provide actual scientific studies documenting the effectiveness of the face diaper. You might start by taking a look at the recent Danish study which was publicized.
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by Kbg » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:56 pm

Go mask freedom fighters!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for keeping us all safe from tyranny and oppression. Your courage and inspiration are awe inspiring. May your civil mindedness and concern for others inspire all future American generations.

Truly, we can never repay the debt we owe you. You will be remembered right up there with Revolutionary War, Civil War and the Greatest Generation veterans.

Now get back out there tigers...go pull some masks off people's faces. Your wives and children expect this of you. It's a tough job, but who else can we rely upon?
Last edited by Kbg on Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by murphy_p_t » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:44 am

And yet, no science to support your satire.

Because it doesn't exist
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by dualstow » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:05 am

Kbg wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:56 pm
Go mask freedom fighters!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for keeping us all safe from tyranny and oppression. Your courage and inspiration are awe inspiring. May your civil mindedness and concern for others inspire all future American generations.

Truly, we can never repay the debt we owe you. You will be remembered right up there with Revolutionary War, Civil War and the Greatest Generation veterans.

Now get back out there tigers...go pull some masks off people's faces. Your wives an children expect this of you. It's a tough job, but who can else can we rely upon?
O0 O0 O0
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by Kbg » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:44 am

murphy_p_t wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:44 am
And yet, no science to support your satire.

Because it doesn't exist
How about 46 scientific studies that say elsewise from US sources

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... -cov2.html


Maybe 14 more from European sources

https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/ear ... 01260-2020


Maybe a Hong Kong hospital study

https://www.contagionlive.com/view/hong ... tervention

How about a study that studies mask acceptance in societies and the science backing wearing masks

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7314683/

And yet, way more science backs my satire than your misinformed opinion.

Analytical Methods 101: Source credibility. If your source is some random internet blogger with an agenda vs. known entities whose business and charter is to study these types of things and make public health recommendations and policy...knock yourself out.

The science is crystal clear, let me summarize for you maybe it will help simplify.

- Do masks prevent the spread of airborne disease - no

- Do masks mitigate droplet transmission (and follow me here if you can) and therefore mitigate transmission effectivity - yes

- Does mask quality make a difference in the above - yes

Riddle me this Batman...if masking up does nothing why does every single picture you see of a COVID ward in a hospital have doctors and nurses who are heavily masked up, face shielded up and wearing protective clothing?

Yep, one big conspiracy with no science behind it...ever notice how all the hospital clothing is greenish blue...gnomes I tell you, gnomes. These gnomes are a branch off of the blue gnomes who stole the election.
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by Kbg » Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:06 am

So to make my personal opinion also crystal clear.

Mask wearing, it's a no-brainer that is helpful, civic minded and really isn't a big deal to comply with. I just got done wearing one for 5 weeks 16 hours a day in an Asian country except when in my hotel room and eating. Really, you will be fine, it's ok. You can even hike up a mountain every morning with one on.

Degree to which we shut down the economy and other public services to limit the spread of COVID, reasonable people can differ here and IMHO there does need to be a balance. I belive this balance is best decided at the local level, optimally free of politics, yet incorporating economic and medical good advice. Federal direction for shutdowns is not helpful because local conditions vary greatly.

I'm also completely cool with mandatory cell phone tracking that is anonymized except for when a COVID contact cluster occurs at which the involved individuals can be "decloaked" and notified. This is exactly what you are already doing if you happen to have an iOS or Android cell phone only you are giving it to private companies who then use and exploit you for everything they can.
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by Xan » Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:35 pm

Kbg wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:44 am
murphy_p_t wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:44 am
And yet, no science to support your satire.

Because it doesn't exist
How about 46 scientific studies that say elsewise from US sources

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... -cov2.html


Maybe 14 more from European sources

https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/ear ... 01260-2020


Maybe a Hong Kong hospital study

https://www.contagionlive.com/view/hong ... tervention

How about a study that studies mask acceptance in societies and the science backing wearing masks

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7314683/

And yet, way more science backs my satire than your misinformed opinion.

Analytical Methods 101: Source credibility. If your source is some random internet blogger with an agenda vs. known entities whose business and charter is to study these types of things and make public health recommendations and policy...knock yourself out.

The science is crystal clear, let me summarize for you maybe it will help simplify.

- Do masks prevent the spread of airborne disease - no

- Do masks mitigate droplet transmission (and follow me here if you can) and therefore mitigate transmission effectivity - yes

- Does mask quality make a difference in the above - yes

Riddle me this Batman...if masking up does nothing why does every single picture you see of a COVID ward in a hospital have doctors and nurses who are heavily masked up, face shielded up and wearing protective clothing?

Yep, one big conspiracy with no science behind it...ever notice how all the hospital clothing is greenish blue...gnomes I tell you, gnomes. These gnomes are a branch off of the blue gnomes who stole the election.
Lab studies show that masks work. They may work to help prevent infection in specific environments like ORs. The strange thing is that they don't work to prevent the spread of infectious diseases in the general population, even when there's complete compliance, and we don't really know why.
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by Kbg » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:55 pm

I like to go to the source...so here it is, plus professional comments.

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

In any event, nice intellectual work. Glom on to a study that supports your predisposition. Dude I can do that all day long just pick the subject.

Analytical Methodology 102: Quality of sources and weight of evidence.

I'll give you a C on quality, at least the source study was actually academic/scientific and controlled. You need to bring a lot credible evidence to the table to overcome weight of evidence. So F there.

Finally, I'm seriously beginning to think most Americans are complete morons when it comes to understanding science. With the exception of physics, and even with physics, we see through a glass darkly at all times.

When I see medical professionals ditch masks, that's when I'll believe the science no longer backs mask wearing. Of course organizations who are accountable for acting responsibly or they will be held accountable in courts are going to go with mainstream consensus to CYA. Let's invert as Charlie Munger encourages as a way to think clearly. Mr. kbg is an enterprising young malpractice lawyer and sees a picture in his local newspaper of medical professionals in a COVID ward or the surgical room with no masks on...is Mr. kbg seeing dollar signs in his head? Yes, drooling as well.

Even better for all my esteemed mask warriors; next time you go in for surgery I demand that you demand everyone in the operating room take off their masks. Better yet, when the anesthesiologist leans over you to apply your anesthesia mask...pull his off his face. Serious bonus points for that move.

I'm sure all of our heroes have that kind personal courage and conviction, no doubt.
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by dualstow » Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:39 am

Simonjester wrote: the new normal?
https://www.americanthinker.com/article ... ormal.html
great article!
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by WiseOne » Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:34 pm

Hmmm....I read the publication of the Danish clinical trial of mask-wearing, along with the preceding article that discussed how the study was designed.

The results match up well with the WHO meta-analysis I posted here, which found a range of zero to 22% beneefit from mask-wearing to prevent spread of influenzea. There was a small benefit for mask wearing of about 14% (2.1% COVID rate in the control group, 1.8% in the mask-wearing group). However, it did not reach statistical significance because the study was only powered to have an 80% chance of detecting a large (50%) reduction in infection due to mask wearing. Statistically, that 14% is indistinguishable from the range -1.2% to 0.4%. (Negative = no benefit.)

Another way to report these numbers that might make more sense to the average person: In order to prevent one COVID case in a setting of a 2% infection rate per month, according to the numbers in this study 300 people would have to consistently wear masks outside the home.

Of course, that's under ideal conditions: participation in a study which means you are getting motivated, compliant participants, a fixed duration of one month as opposed to "forever" that the participants had to adhere to, and weekly phone calls to study participants.

So let me write a more sensible conclusion to this study. It says there is not a large benefit to mask wearing, which means that government orders forcing mask wearing are not well justified (but we knew that already, didn't we?). It also says, like the WHO meta-analysis, that there may be a small benefit for mask wearing - though this study cannot prove that. So, you should make your own decision about mask-wearing depending on COVID rates in your area, your personal risk profile and that of the others in your household.

See wasn't that easy???
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:24 am

MangoMan wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:46 am
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:15 am
A guy on Triggernometry made the observation that people treat the mask mandate in the UK like Iranian (he grew up in Iran) women treat the headscarf mandate. They wear them around their necks until they see the police, then they put them on :P
Great find. This has been going on since the Spanish Inquisition. Even in the late 1400s people would just pretend to follow oppressive laws until the men with guns were within sight.
For a new thread....
What are these oppressive laws would you refer to?

I don't live in a country where we had to fight for many centuries to reclaim our territory, so I'm not quick to judge negatively actions authorized by the Spanish crown.
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Re: Masks are Liberals’ Burkhas

Post by vnatale » Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:26 pm

tomfoolery wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:18 pm
Suppose mask-wearing does prevent a marginal amount of COVID spreading which prevents a marginal amount of COVID deaths.

From a risk mitigation standpoint, the cost has to be lower than the negative outcome we're avoiding. What are the costs of mask wearing?

It's a hassle that takes time and effort. It's perhaps marginal on the individual level but adds up considerably. 300 Million Americans. Conservatively, 10 seconds to put on or take off a mask 10 times a day. 100 seconds per American per day. That's 0.03 Hours per person. That's about 8 million hours per day spent screwing around with masks.

8 million hours per day. That seems enormous. From a percentage of the total day, it's small, but 8 million hours per day. Jeez!

And I am being conservative on 10 seconds per application and 10 times per day.

Now about the cost of the masks themselves. I won't bother estimating that, I'm still blown away by 8 million hours per day spent on this.

On average people work 8 hours a day. That keeps the math really simple. So 8 million hours is the equivalent of 1 million people not doing productive work each day.

Apple Computer has 150k employees. So rounding down even, that's like 6 Apple companies.

The opportunity cost of mask wearing in the US is the destruction of 6 Apple companies.

Okay cool, there's no way to put a price on life. Well, why don't we all agree to stop driving cars? About 40k Americans die each year from car accidents. If we all stopped driving cars, we'd save the lives of 40k people. And arguably, this would have a bigger impact than mask wearing because the people who die in car accidents are disproportionately young and unlikely to die in any given year. Whereas the deaths from COVID are disproproportionately old and very likely to die from someone else if not from COVID, since the average age of COVID death is older than the average age people die.

But no one is talking about ending cars, because it would hurt our productivity too much.

Mask wearing sucks up the equivalent productivity of 1 million people per day. How's that for productivity losses?

I was equally upset when TSA became a bigger thing after 9/11. Sure, maybe we've prevented some terrorist-related deaths, but at the cost of billions of hours of lost productivity per year, standing in lines at the airport.
This argument can also be supplied to all the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ invested in schools' security both on a one-time basis and on an ongoing basis. The probabilities of any child getting killed by a mass shooter are extremely low yet what are the total $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that have been spent on mitigation?

Do you support the security hardening of all these schools?

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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