Is Trump doing a good job?

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I Shrugged
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by I Shrugged » Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:23 pm

pp4me wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:31 am
doodle wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:01 am
It's so ironic that on a board that leans libertarian/ anarchist there are so many people here who love to lick the boots of this autocrat. Yes, Pelosi and Schumer are obnoxious. Trump is a douchebag elitist sociopath with delusions of grandeur.
Trump is the closest thing to an antiwar candidate and president I've seen in my lifetime and that is the prime directive for libertarians so I don't see any inconsistency there. Bush, McCain, and Romney were all neocon warmongers who turned my stomach and I couldn't bring myself to vote for any of them. Didn't vote for Dems either because they were all just as bad, if not worse. Pat Buchanan used to call Republicans the "war party" but I think that label applied to both parties. Neocons obviously realize this because they are switching to the Dems.

Harry Browne and Ron Paul were both strongly antiwar. I actually joined the Republican party for a while so I could vote for Ron Paul in the primary but canceled my membership shortly thereafter. Harry Browne's antiwar writings were some of the best I've read and I read them long before any of his financial books. I would have voted for Harry when he ran for president but I don't even remember him being on the ballot, or wasn't aware of he was and what he stood for at the time.

Is Trump a libertarian? Of course not. Is he everything you accuse him of? Maybe.

As the song says you can't always get what you want but you can get what you need.

Agree with everything you wrote, 1000%.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by flyingpylon » Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:25 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:47 pm
flyingpylon wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:32 pm
vnatale wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:50 pm
Regarding Trump rally campaign music.....This is the first time EVER I heard this:

Our America (with Gretchen Wilson & Cowboy Troy)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFP-iKykQzg

Now that I've listened to it a few times, if I were in charge of Trump rally music, It would be the last song I'd play JUST prior to Trump hitting the stage.

I could not see anything but the Trumpee's going wild over the song and putting them at the highest possible fever pitch to now actually be seeing their beloved Trump.

That is HOW you program rally music! Not John Fogerty's "Futunate Son", which, as has been pointed out, is actually anti-Trump.

Again, I'm not judging his campaign rally music by how it does or does not appeal to me but how I see it appealing to the Trump crowd.

The first time I applied to be a a DJ for our college radio station the station manager turned me down. I'd given him an audition tape of all the music I liked. I listened to his feedback and then gave him a second audition tape which I knew had the music on it HE wanted to hear. I got the job after that! I know how to play to the intended audience.

Vinny
Then again, perhaps you’re overconfident about the degree to which you understand Trump supporters.
I think might be able to confidently say that I've been directly exposed to more of Trump than you have for what he says at rallies and how his audience responds. Don't forget I'll sometimes listen to the entire rally three times in a row. I'm fairly confident I know what appeals to his audiences and what does not. And, therefore, the music which should be played for maximum appeal.

Can you see the above song I listed being played just before Biden comes on?

Vinny
No, they’d burn the place to the ground.

Edit: On second thought, there are no “Biden Rallies” anyway. So maybe it wouldn’t matter.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by vnatale » Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:47 pm

It looks like not all Canadians share Smith1776's reticense to comment about other country's politics?

Vinny

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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by boglerdude » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:37 pm

yeah, just bring all the troops right home and we'll worry about it when iran/china/russia are on the borders. And we'll ask them to abide by the NAP
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Mark Leavy » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:41 pm

boglerdude wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:37 pm
yeah, just bring all the troops right home and we'll worry about it when iran/china/russia are on the borders. And we'll ask them to abide by the NAP
One of the great things about this forum is that there are quiet, serious, professionals with expertise in a wide variety of domains.
And then there is you.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by glennds » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:28 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:01 pm


By rights he should get a third term but he knows that's impossible, just as everyone else does.
He just likes to wind up the Marxist media and all the other fools who can't tell when he's joking.
By what rights should he get a third term?

Note: Disregard the question if you were only joking.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Libertarian666 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:46 pm

glennds wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:28 pm
Libertarian666 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:01 pm

By rights he should get a third term but he knows that's impossible, just as everyone else does.
He just likes to wind up the Marxist media and all the other fools who can't tell when he's joking.
By what rights should he get a third term?

Note: Disregard the question if you were only joking.
I was partly joking but not entirely.

He has been subjected to continual obstruction and interference beyond the normal political realm, in the form of weaponizing the intelligence community and the power of impeachment against him, both with absolutely no justification.

This has cost him much time that could otherwise have been used productively even if only in normal political battles rather than fighting back against what a neutral observer would have to consider coup attempts.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Libertarian666 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:47 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:41 pm
boglerdude wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:37 pm
yeah, just bring all the troops right home and we'll worry about it when iran/china/russia are on the borders. And we'll ask them to abide by the NAP
One of the great things about this forum is that there are quiet, serious, professionals with expertise in a wide variety of domains.
And then there is you.
It's too bad the knuckleheads forum doesn't allow political discussion so he could bother them instead of us.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by glennds » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:58 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:46 pm
glennds wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:28 pm
Libertarian666 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:01 pm

By rights he should get a third term but he knows that's impossible, just as everyone else does.
He just likes to wind up the Marxist media and all the other fools who can't tell when he's joking.
By what rights should he get a third term?

Note: Disregard the question if you were only joking.
I was partly joking but not entirely.

He has been subjected to continual obstruction and interference beyond the normal political realm, in the form of weaponizing the intelligence community and the power of impeachment against him, both with absolutely no justification.

This has cost him much time that could otherwise have been used productively even if only in normal political battles rather than fighting back against what a neutral observer would have to consider coup attempts.
I suspected, if not joking, those might be your reasons.
I asked less to do with Trump and more to do with a broader interest in the whole question of term limits.
Maybe a worthy subject for a separate thread.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:03 am

Trump, the Uniter In Chief(tm).

Why doesn't he just come out and say it's all BS? His supporters have been for a while.

And again, not that I 100% disagree with him, but he's playing the outsider here, and he is the ultimate insider. If he could only actually sit down and formulate some real strategies, for, say, opening schools, vs. holding rallies, hey, maybe I'd vote for him. No, just tell the hack, stupid governors to open your state. Really helpful.

But it continues to be about stroking his big ass ego.

Oh, it's just Trump being Trump, get over it, right?

I'd like them to prove me wrong. I'd like them to trace all these rally goers and prove it isn't being spread. That would be great data.

And that first line by Kushner is a real beauty.

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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by WiseOne » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:09 am

So what do you guys make of this?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/afghan-gov ... 1600019749
Representatives of the Afghan government and the Taliban sat down Sunday to kick off a historic round of direct talks this week aimed at ending the two-decades-long conflict, a day after delegations met for the first time in a hotel in Qatar.

The meetings over the weekend, brokered by the Trump administration as part of efforts to withdraw troops from America’s longest war, marked a diplomatic breakthrough.
I keep hearing all these highly negative descriptions of Trump, which I can't reconcile to accomplishments like this - which you never hear anything about. I guess it depends what you want to focus on.

Cortopassi, the study you are looking for has effectively already been done. Take a look at photos of the early June Black Lives Matter protests in New York City. I bet the photos were carefully vetted to maximize the number of mask wearers shown, but you can easily find non-mask wearing protesters in the photos - especially those shouting into megaphones in the middle of a densely packed crowd. Or masks worn incorrectly, e.g. under the nose. And I doubt very much that rioters, who weren't photographed, were wearing masks. Also of note, many in the audience are people of color (especially those not wearing masks), who have been shown to be especially vulnerable to COVID.

Then take a look at the COVID-19 daily case data published for New York City:
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page

Select "cases, hospitalizations, and deaths". Notice the shape of the curve dropping gradually through May, June, and July (and still dropping). There is no bump in cases following those protests, which you would expect from such risky behavior. QED.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by doodle » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:11 am

Speaking of Kushner, can you imagine how outraged techno would be if Obama displayed same nepotism? Trump is a religious experience to him. There is no ability to rationalize anything. I have conceded that there are many policy points I agree with Trump on...taking on China, pushing for stricter immigration standards, revitalizing American industry, bringing home American troops.....I most strongly disagree with him in terms of environment and women's choice and healthcare but overall it's his divisiveness and personality that make him unfit to be president. An effective leader doesn't act like he does...which is why his first term and potentially second one will be so difficult for him. His way of being naturally creates drama and tension. It was the same way in his life as a private citizen ..he literally has been embroiled in lawsuits his entire life. That is the hallmark of an abrasive individual and makes for ineffective leadership. Many good ideas, wrong person, wrong style. In fact if the Democrats do win he will have caused a setback to his ideas by radicalizing the opposition..dumb strategy. He is an idiot...

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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:31 am

WiseOne wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:09 am


Cortopassi, the study you are looking for has effectively already been done. Take a look at photos of the early June Black Lives Matter protests in New York City. I bet the photos were carefully vetted to maximize the number of mask wearers shown, but you can easily find non-mask wearing protesters in the photos - especially those shouting into megaphones in the middle of a densely packed crowd. Or masks worn incorrectly, e.g. under the nose. And I doubt very much that rioters, who weren't photographed, were wearing masks. Also of note, many in the audience are people of color (especially those not wearing masks), who have been shown to be especially vulnerable to COVID.

Then take a look at the COVID-19 daily case data published for New York City:
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page

Select "cases, hospitalizations, and deaths". Notice the shape of the curve dropping gradually through May, June, and July (and still dropping). There is no bump in cases following those protests, which you would expect from such risky behavior. QED.
I understand all that WiseOne. I am sure protesters were not masked and many rioters were not masked (or if they were smart would have been!)

But I can't reconcile that with the government at all levels telling us to social distance and wear masks and Trump, coming in like this outsider, flaunts ALL of it. If it was 2016 and he was a candidate, maybe. But he is the leader of the government putting out these dictates.

If the band director at our high school took our 140 kids one practice night, told them take off your masks, lets practice this routine like we were supposed to before Covid, the band would be SHUT DOWN instantly. He'd probably get fired.

But Trump gets to get away with it. Are the optics not bad with this?

He has such apparent balls at times going off the cuff. But he won't step over that virus line verbally at least. Come out and say it's overblown. Say we should go for herd immunity and just protect those at risk. His supporters would love that. I would like that. He rails into everything else at his rallies, but he's apparently very careful with his wording and staying away from death counts, etc. Just makes blanket statements like "Open the Schools" without any idea how to actually get that done.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by shekels » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:41 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:03 am
Trump, the Uniter In Chief(tm).

Why doesn't he just come out and say it's all BS? His supporters have been for a while.

And again, not that I 100% disagree with him, but he's playing the outsider here, and he is the ultimate insider. If he could only actually sit down and formulate some real strategies, for, say, opening schools, vs. holding rallies, hey, maybe I'd vote for him. No, just tell the hack, stupid governors to open your state. Really helpful.

But it continues to be about stroking his big ass ego.

Oh, it's just Trump being Trump, get over it, right?

I'd like them to prove me wrong. I'd like them to trace all these rally goers and prove it isn't being spread. That would be great data.

And that first line by Kushner is a real beauty.

For You,
Illinois voted for the Governor J. B. Pritzker to do the states Job and formulate real strategies to open schools.
So are you alright with Trump basically taking over the state and making the decisions for the state?
You would be Fine with that?
I know, I would not be fine with it.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by WiseOne » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:15 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:31 am
WiseOne wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:09 am


Cortopassi, the study you are looking for has effectively already been done. Take a look at photos of the early June Black Lives Matter protests in New York City. I bet the photos were carefully vetted to maximize the number of mask wearers shown, but you can easily find non-mask wearing protesters in the photos - especially those shouting into megaphones in the middle of a densely packed crowd. Or masks worn incorrectly, e.g. under the nose. And I doubt very much that rioters, who weren't photographed, were wearing masks. Also of note, many in the audience are people of color (especially those not wearing masks), who have been shown to be especially vulnerable to COVID.

Then take a look at the COVID-19 daily case data published for New York City:
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page

Select "cases, hospitalizations, and deaths". Notice the shape of the curve dropping gradually through May, June, and July (and still dropping). There is no bump in cases following those protests, which you would expect from such risky behavior. QED.
(selected phrases).
I understand all that WiseOne.

But Trump gets to get away with it. Are the optics not bad with this?

He has such apparent balls at times going off the cuff.
Do you really understand all that?

Or are you saying that hard evidence doesn't figure into whether or not people should be censured, fined, arrested, fired, or whatever for not wearing masks? If so, then please tell me so I can save myself time by not posting such evidence. I'll remind you of this next time you invoke science to justify a position, though.

I don't know whether Trump is going by science or simply going with "if the Democrats say X the opposite must be true". The former is possible and very defensible. The latter would be childish and stooping to the Democrats' level. He hasn't said, as far as I know. Why doesn't someone just ask him?

There's another element to this: why shouldn't you be able to choose whether to attend an event that doesn't require masks? If you aren't comfortable with that then don't go. Similarly, if a school doesn't require masks and parents aren't comfortable with that, they should have the choice not to send their kid there. Of course, people's preferences here are being heavily influenced by the misinformation they're getting from the press...oh but there I go again talking about evidence. Sigh.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:40 am

Sigh here too, WiseOne.

I am not one to 100% follow science, evidenced by cholesterol theory and the standard American diet both of which I believe are BS.

I don't know what to think, only that I am frustrated that there is no consistency anywhere, that the kids across the street who go to Catholic school are able to go, while my daughter and her friends have to sit in the basement on Zoom.

You've got Trump holding rallies. You've got Trump saying hey a vaccine maybe by election day. You've got Fauci saying we'll be lucky if we get back to normal by end of 2021. You've got NYT and others now questioning the safety of a vaccine because Trump is pushing it too hard.

I've got meetings at work where 10 of 12 of us are unmaksed, and the 2 that are masked I know at least one is totally pissed off we aren't.

This is just another thing that has completely made people hate each other.

I feel like this, from one of my favorite animated movies.

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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by WiseOne » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:25 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:40 am
Sigh here too, WiseOne.

I am not one to 100% follow science, evidence by cholesterol theory and the standard American diet both of which I believe are BS.

I don't know what to think, only that I am frustrated that there is no consistency anywhere,
You're explaining your confusion here very well....and it's understandable!!!

First, I also think the cholesterol theory and the resulting USDA guidelines are BS, but it's not about "not following science." I question it because I am following the science, and not the unfounded belief system that gave rise to it. I can recommend a book if you like.

Something very similar has happened with COVID and mask-wearing. Science tells us that mask wearing in highly constrained hospital settings can prevent bacterial infection in surgical patients, but has limited value in stopping viral transmission. If masks were effective at that, hospitals wouldn't need to build negative pressure rooms. Science also tells us that mask wearing by the general population has very little effect on case trajectories. In the absence of such data, people aiming to create a belief system around mask wearing bring in all kinds of barely-relevant data and resort to unsupported assertions to give their beliefs a veneer of pseudo-science.

Because of the lack of data, there's really nothing to guide how, when, and where people are to wear masks. So yes, governors and mayors writing mask mandates are literally making up rules out of thin air. Naturally, the result is an inconsistent patchwork of rules. No wonder you're confused.

Unfortunately, that leaves you in a position where you have to figure out for yourself what's safe and what isn't. Which leads to the question of what "safe" actually means, given that you take small risks every day in the normal course of life and that's never bothered you before, I assume. I guess you'll have to decide that for yourself. I encourage you to seek out evidence presented by dispassionate, clear-thinking types and to ignore politically motivated propaganda. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to tell the difference.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Xan » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:47 am

WiseOne wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:25 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:40 am
Sigh here too, WiseOne.

I am not one to 100% follow science, evidence by cholesterol theory and the standard American diet both of which I believe are BS.

I don't know what to think, only that I am frustrated that there is no consistency anywhere,
You're explaining your confusion here very well....and it's understandable!!!

First, I also think the cholesterol theory and the resulting USDA guidelines are BS, but it's not about "not following science." I question it because I am following the science, and not the unfounded belief system that gave rise to it. I can recommend a book if you like.
Just to defend Corto here: in popular vernacular, "following science" means going along with the scientific "consensus" as portrayed by the popular media. And that's largely the "science" which we non-doctors have any access to. I'm sure that's what Corto meant.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:54 am

WiseOne wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:25 am
I encourage you to seek out evidence presented by dispassionate, clear-thinking types and to ignore politically motivated propaganda. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to tell the difference.
I've read Good Calories, Bad Calories and Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes, The Great Cholesterol Con by Malcolm Kendrick, and other related books. Right, if the science was followed and not cherry picked, we wouldn't be where we are on diet.

But, just like with almost everything, once a position is taken, it is really hard to back off and change, esp. when egos are involved. And it really seems many doctors and scientists are guilty of the I'm sticking with my position regardless of the evidence position on a variety of subjects.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by vnatale » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:54 am
WiseOne wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:25 am
I encourage you to seek out evidence presented by dispassionate, clear-thinking types and to ignore politically motivated propaganda. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to tell the difference.
I've read Good Calories, Bad Calories and Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes, The Great Cholesterol Con by Malcolm Kendrick, and other related books. Right, if the science was followed and not cherry picked, we wouldn't be where we are on diet.

But, just like with almost everything, once a position is taken, it is really hard to back off and change, esp. when egos are involved. And it really seems many doctors and scientists are guilty of the I'm sticking with my position regardless of the evidence position on a variety of subjects.
The proscribed United States diet is not based upon science but based upon politics, driven by lobbyists.

Vinny
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:03 pm

vnatale wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:54 am
WiseOne wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:25 am
I encourage you to seek out evidence presented by dispassionate, clear-thinking types and to ignore politically motivated propaganda. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to tell the difference.
I've read Good Calories, Bad Calories and Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes, The Great Cholesterol Con by Malcolm Kendrick, and other related books. Right, if the science was followed and not cherry picked, we wouldn't be where we are on diet.

But, just like with almost everything, once a position is taken, it is really hard to back off and change, esp. when egos are involved. And it really seems many doctors and scientists are guilty of the I'm sticking with my position regardless of the evidence position on a variety of subjects.
The proscribed United States diet is not based upon science but based upon politics, driven by lobbyists.

Vinny
But it all started with Ancel Keys, a scientist, cherry picking data to fit his "saturated fat is bad" dogma.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Xan » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:04 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:03 pm
vnatale wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 am
The proscribed United States diet is not based upon science but based upon politics, driven by lobbyists.

Vinny
But it all started with Ancel Keys, a scientist, cherry picking data to fit his "saturated fat is bad" dogma.
Right, and who's to say the same isn't true about masks?

btw, Vinny, "proscribed" means "forbidden". "prescribed" is what you're looking for, I think.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by vnatale » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:13 pm

Xan wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:04 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:03 pm
vnatale wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 am
The proscribed United States diet is not based upon science but based upon politics, driven by lobbyists.

Vinny
But it all started with Ancel Keys, a scientist, cherry picking data to fit his "saturated fat is bad" dogma.
Right, and who's to say the same isn't true about masks?

btw, Vinny, "proscribed" means "forbidden". "prescribed" is what you're looking for, I think.
You are correct! Thanks for adding to my vocabulary. Goal is to both know all words and use them correctly.

Vinny
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by jalanlong » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:17 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:25 am

First, I also think the cholesterol theory and the resulting USDA guidelines are BS, but it's not about "not following science." I question it because I am following the science, and not the unfounded belief system that gave rise to it. I can recommend a book if you like.
Diet really confuses me. I have spent the better part of the last 2-3 years reading about diet so that I can hopefully age better and avoid some health issues late in life by using "cleaner fuel" so to speak. But after all of the reading and studying, I am not sure I have any more concrete ideas now then I had when I started. For every point of view there are studies supporting it, condemning it and people were both successful and unsuccessful trying it.

Pete Carroll is the oldest coach in the NFL but he looks fantastic. He easily looks better than half of the coaches out there. He credits a vegan diet for turning around his life a few years ago, getting rid of his arthritis, lowering his blood pressure etc. But then just last week 2 celebrities went off the vegan train. Miley Cyrus said her brain was foggy and upon eating meat it suddenly got clearer. Mike Tyson said he could not get decent muscle tone and be in the shape he wanted without meat.

That would lead you to believe it is all individual but there are a lot of studies showing that our bodies have not changed that much since hunter/gatherer times and all of our bodies really run the same way more or less.

In a way it is like the mask debate. When the science is confusing you just fall back on your personal belief system right? If you trust authorities you wear a mask without question and avoid meat. If you are a rebel and question authority perhaps you do the opposite.
Last edited by jalanlong on Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WiseOne
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by WiseOne » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:18 pm

Xan wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:04 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:03 pm
vnatale wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 am
The proscribed United States diet is not based upon science but based upon politics, driven by lobbyists.

Vinny
But it all started with Ancel Keys, a scientist, cherry picking data to fit his "saturated fat is bad" dogma.
Right, and who's to say the same isn't true about masks?
Bingo.

I guess I have an easier time questioning authority than most people. Also as a medical scientist myself, I have insider knowledge on how the sausage is made. I have served as a peer-reviewer for a rather large number of journals, up to and including Nature journals, and several NIH, European, and state/local grant review panels. You'd probably be horrified at what I've seen come across my desk.

Corto, if you're armed with the knowledge needed to tell the USDA to go to hell, then it's mainly a confidence issue. Don't rely on doctors...The vast majority are not scientists and can't judge the literature any better than you can.
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