Jeff Bezos is Now Worth 200 Billion

[Libertarian666]

How does land ownership work in this anarchocapitalist society? Who keeps me from taking your land absent government enforcement?

The title insurance company to whom you paid your premium.

I was wondering how you were going to answer that. That was really good. You have to think about it for a bit. But it works. First time I've heard that argument.

What percent reliable is title insurance? Are there any known cases of someone having title insurance who ended up NOT being protected? Can it be one of those cases if the title insurance company did not do their job properly then the limits to their liability is the premium you paid to them?

Vinny

I've never heard of a title insurance claim not being paid, but I admit I've not researched it.
I do know that every mortgage lender requires you to have it just in case there's a problem with your title.
Of course their role would be much greater under anarcho-capitalism, but there's no obvious reason they couldn't do it.
After all, property and casualty insurance companies insure against all kinds of risks; this isn't any harder to insure against than a hurricane, for example.

[Libertarian666]

Yes, but enforcement mechanism? Title insurance goons? They going to lock me up in title insurance jail?

That is the part where you have to think about Tech's response.
Title insurance works when they contract with a security / enforcement force.

Don't think Tech wasn't thinking that way. If you missed it, you're a bit slow.
When/if title insurance starts working that way, "jail" won't be an issue.

Right. I didn't think it was necessary to mention it, especially to someone like you.
Thanks for the compliment, by the way: that answer is original with me as far as I know, although of course someone else may have figured it out before.

[vnatale]

How does land ownership work in this anarchocapitalist society? Who keeps me from taking your land absent government enforcement?

The title insurance company to whom you paid your premium.

I was wondering how you were going to answer that. That was really good. You have to think about it for a bit. But it works. First time I've heard that argument.

What percent reliable is title insurance? Are there any known cases of someone having title insurance who ended up NOT being protected? Can it be one of those cases if the title insurance company did not do their job properly then the limits to their liability is the premium you paid to them?

Vinny

I've never heard of a title insurance claim not being paid, but I admit I've not researched it.
I do know that every mortgage lender requires you to have it just in case there's a problem with your title.
Of course their role would be much greater under anarcho-capitalism, but there's no obvious reason they couldn't do it.
After all, property and casualty insurance companies insure against all kinds of risks; this isn't any harder to insure against than a hurricane, for example.

Here is another view of title insuance:

Title insurance is a scam and it’s time for a government takeover
14
Iowa’s state-run system is by far the cheapest in the nation—and the most effective

https://www.curbed.com/2018/2/26/170171 ... t-takeover


I bought my cheap house with no lender involved. However, I did buy title insurance for the closing.

Vinny

[Libertarian666]

How does land ownership work in this anarchocapitalist society? Who keeps me from taking your land absent government enforcement?

The title insurance company to whom you paid your premium.

I was wondering how you were going to answer that. That was really good. You have to think about it for a bit. But it works. First time I've heard that argument.

What percent reliable is title insurance? Are there any known cases of someone having title insurance who ended up NOT being protected? Can it be one of those cases if the title insurance company did not do their job properly then the limits to their liability is the premium you paid to them?

Vinny

I've never heard of a title insurance claim not being paid, but I admit I've not researched it.
I do know that every mortgage lender requires you to have it just in case there's a problem with your title.
Of course their role would be much greater under anarcho-capitalism, but there's no obvious reason they couldn't do it.
After all, property and casualty insurance companies insure against all kinds of risks; this isn't any harder to insure against than a hurricane, for example.

Here is another view of title insuance:

Title insurance is a scam and it’s time for a government takeover
14
Iowa’s state-run system is by far the cheapest in the nation—and the most effective

https://www.curbed.com/2018/2/26/170171 ... t-takeover


I bought my cheap house with no lender involved. However, I did buy title insurance for the closing.

Vinny

I'm shocked that a communist web site like curbed.com would be against private title insurance!
Come on, Vinny, can't you even try to come up with unbiased articles?

[doodle]

Yes, but enforcement mechanism? Title insurance goons? They going to lock me up in title insurance jail?

That is the part where you have to think about Tech's response.
Title insurance works when they contract with a security / enforcement force.

Don't think Tech wasn't thinking that way. If you missed it, you're a bit slow.
When/if title insurance starts working that way, "jail" won't be an issue.

Lol, you guys are insane. Welcome to Mad Max. Sounds like a fantastic place. Private mercenary forces running rampant....why don't you just move to Somalia?

[Mark Leavy]

Who's being naive, Kay?

[Libertarian666]

Yes, but enforcement mechanism? Title insurance goons? They going to lock me up in title insurance jail?

That is the part where you have to think about Tech's response.
Title insurance works when they contract with a security / enforcement force.

Don't think Tech wasn't thinking that way. If you missed it, you're a bit slow.
When/if title insurance starts working that way, "jail" won't be an issue.

Lol, you guys are insane. Welcome to Mad Max. Sounds like a fantastic place. Private mercenary forces running rampant....why don't you just move to Somalia?

Read Chapter 12 of "For a New Liberty" for an explanation of why the government monopoly of force is not only evil but unnecessary.
In fact, read the whole book for an exposition of the whole anarcho-capitalist system.

[Mark Leavy]

Lol, you guys are insane. Welcome to Mad Max. Sounds like a fantastic place. Private mercenary forces running rampant....why don't you just move to Somalia?

Okay... a less dismissive response...

Private security and enforcement is a real business. It is not some futuristic dystopian fantasy novel.

What do you think happens when you yank on the door of a Brink's truck? I tried that as a joke when I was a young teen. I had a pistol in my face in seconds. Don't do that.

Even though you don't think of it as part of your GDP calculations, security and armed guards are a real thing. And they range from the fat guy at the desk to people who will do real harm. It's a legitimate business, like any other.

[doodle]

Yes, but enforcement mechanism? Title insurance goons? They going to lock me up in title insurance jail?

That is the part where you have to think about Tech's response.
Title insurance works when they contract with a security / enforcement force.

Don't think Tech wasn't thinking that way. If you missed it, you're a bit slow.
When/if title insurance starts working that way, "jail" won't be an issue.

Lol, you guys are insane. Welcome to Mad Max. Sounds like a fantastic place. Private mercenary forces running rampant....why don't you just move to Somalia?

Read Chapter 12 of "For a New Liberty" for an explanation of why the government monopoly of force is not only evil but unnecessary.
In fact, read the whole book for an exposition of the whole anarcho-capitalist system.

Lol, you guys are insane. Welcome to Mad Max. Sounds like a fantastic place. Private mercenary forces running rampant....why don't you just move to Somalia?

Okay... a less dismissive response...

Private security and enforcement is a real business. It is not some futuristic dystopian fantasy novel.

What do you think happens when you yank on the door of a Brink's truck? I tried that as a joke when I was a young teen. I had a pistol in my face in seconds. Don't do that.

Even though you don't think of it as part of your GDP calculations, security and armed guards are a real thing. And they range from the fat guy at the desk to people who will do real harm. It's a legitimate business, like any other.

The fact that you are running with this is mind boggling to me. Private security forces...beholden to who? Without a monopoly on power...aka, the state...suddenly you have warring security forces. This exists in Mexico with the drug cartels...seriously, I can't believe you are entertaining this idea.

[doodle]

Bringing it back to Jeff Bezos, I'm sure with 200 billion he could hire one hell of a private army..maybe build a few private gulags to lock up economic competitors. Lol you guys have lost your minds.

[Mark Leavy]

The fact that you are running with this is mind boggling to me. Private security forces...beholden to who? Without a monopoly on power...aka, the state...suddenly you have warring security forces. This exists in Mexico with the drug cartels...seriously, I can't believe you are entertaining this idea.

You're a funny guy doodle. You should get out more. You have a weird sense of how the world actually works. And not just in Mexico...

[Mark Leavy]

Sigh.

Okay... step by step.

1) Do you believe that private security forces are legitimately used to protect bank deposits? (i.e. Brink's trucks)
2) Do you believe that private security forces could legitimately be used to protect other real property? (i.e Title Insurance)

[glennds]

In a non-government society, obviously there's no legislature and no judicial court system. So how do laws get made and enforced?
Or are there any laws at all?

[doodle]

Sigh.

Okay... step by step.

1) Do you believe that private security forces are legitimately used to protect bank deposits? (i.e. Brink's trucks)
2) Do you believe that private security forces could legitimately be used to protect other real property? (i.e Title Insurance)

Yes, but those private security forces are also subject to state legislation beholden to public. In your world that doesn't exist. It's essentially taking the anarchy present on the world stage and introducing it into the fabric of our communities. Look at European warring kindoms and feudal States for an idea of what that would look like. Better start building your castle and maybe a moat. I feel like I'm having a debate in an insane asylum right now.

In a non-government society, obviously there's no legislature and no judicial court system. So how do laws get made and enforced?
Or are there any laws at all?

It's anarchy.....anarchocapitalism to be specific. They use examples of things like Ebay to argue why people can get along harmoniously without the presence of government. Obviously they have never sat on a condo board of directors where every meeting was fireworks. Lol...Techno might be a bright computer code guy but his understanding of humans is pretty naive for such a hard nosed conservative realist.

[Libertarian666]

In a non-government society, obviously there's no legislature and no judicial court system. So how do laws get made and enforced?
Or are there any laws at all?

There would be common law, made and interpreted by judges (obviously private ones).
But the most common solution to dispute resolution would be something very like the "General Submission to Arbitration": https://www.facebook.com/GeneralArbitrationSubmission

[glennds]

In a non-government society, obviously there's no legislature and no judicial court system. So how do laws get made and enforced?
Or are there any laws at all?

There would be common law, made and interpreted by judges (obviously private ones).
But the most common solution to dispute resolution would be something very like the "General Submission to Arbitration": https://www.facebook.com/GeneralArbitrationSubmission

I can see where private dispute resolution agreements like this could work for civil disputes when both parties have agreed in advance to the process, but I am having difficulty seeing the application in situations involving criminal activity.

For example, if someone tried to unexpectedly take or occupy my private real property, I don't see where I would have a claim on my title insurance policy. My right of title is intact and the policy has not been violated in terms of chain. In other words, I have no claim against my title company. However my right to possession has been infringed (in violation of the hypothetical common law?). So how do I resolve that situation, especially since it requires some level of urgency.

Title insurance policies insure against title claims, but not the full scope of property rights and property liability claims.

And what if the infringing party has refused to sign a ADR agreement?

Who creates and/or amends the common law?
Who pays for the private judges?
How would this be applied in the event of a violent crime?

[Libertarian666]

In a non-government society, obviously there's no legislature and no judicial court system. So how do laws get made and enforced?
Or are there any laws at all?

There would be common law, made and interpreted by judges (obviously private ones).
But the most common solution to dispute resolution would be something very like the "General Submission to Arbitration": https://www.facebook.com/GeneralArbitrationSubmission

I can see where private dispute resolution agreements like this could work for civil disputes when both parties have agreed in advance to the process, but I am having difficulty seeing the application in situations involving criminal activity.

For example, if someone tried to unexpectedly take or occupy my private real property, I don't see where I would have a claim on my title insurance policy. My right of title is intact and the policy has not been violated in terms of chain. In other words, I have no claim against my title company. However my right to possession has been infringed (in violation of the hypothetical common law?). So how do I resolve that situation, especially since it requires some level of urgency.

Title insurance policies insure against title claims, but not the full scope of property rights and property liability claims.

And what if the infringing party has refused to sign a ADR agreement?

Who creates and/or amends the common law?
Who pays for the private judges?
How would this be applied in the event of a violent crime?

You're asking me to tell you how a different social order would work, which isn't something that can be done in this medium.
What I can do is to tell you where to read a fairly well worked-out description of how it might work.
Here is a free version: https://cdn.mises.org/For%20a%20New%20L ... esto_3.pdf.

Of course I'll be happy to answer questions after you have read it.

[doodle]

Ok, so I'm a bit confused...in this anarchocapitalist world there would no longer exist nation's / countries....so in essence we would live in a borderless world...free to move and travel and live wherever we wished without government interference. So why the support for nationalistic patriotic populism of Trump? Aren't these immigrants flowing across our borders simply anarchocapitalists filling the needs of the free market? After all, they are coming here for work.

[glennds]

You're asking me to tell you how a different social order would work, which isn't something that can be done in this medium.
What I can do is to tell you where to read a fairly well worked-out description of how it might work.
Here is a free version: https://cdn.mises.org/For%20a%20New%20L ... esto_3.pdf.

Of course I'll be happy to answer questions after you have read it.

Thanks
And sorry to the OP for taking the discussion off topic,

[boglerdude]

(and drop orphans, the demented, and those who cant manage their legal heroin, into the volcano)

[Mark Leavy]

(and drop orphans, the demented, and those who cant manage their legal heroin, into the volcano)

I knew there was something we could agree on boglerdude!

[Maddy]

There is a very odd movement afoot, most prominently in the Yale and Columbia circles (which have always embraced a leftist revolutionary slant on the law), to dismantle the law and legal system as we know it and to usher in a system known as "reflexive law." When I first heard this term, I was skeptical, since after many decades in litigation and legal analysis there aren't many legal concepts with which I'm unfamiliar.

It took reading a number of very lengthy law review articles coming out of these institutions, and to get past all the double-talk and euphemisms, to understand what they were really talking about.

Once I understood where they were coming from (and it isn't easy), I immediately saw that they were not talking about "law" at all. What they are advocating is in essence a system of behavior modification whereby instantaneous rewards and punishments are used as a tool of coercion to manage, right down to the minutest detail, both individuals and societies. It assumes a complex, highly integrated, system of monitoring and control over both the production and use of resources which would be achieved through a coordinated, highly networked system of feedback such as those envisioned for "smart cities" using 5G technology. I believe that China was, and is, the prototype for this kind of system.

Watch this development, as I guarantee it's only getting started. If you ever read Waldon Two, it's time to read it again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walden_Two

[Libertarian666]

(and drop orphans, the demented, and those who cant manage their legal heroin, into the volcano)

I knew there was something we could agree on boglerdude!

I guess that's equivalent to calling me a Nazi?
(Not you, of course, Mark).

[doodle]

Ok, so I'm a bit confused...in this anarchocapitalist world there would no longer exist nation's / countries....so in essence we would live in a borderless world...free to move and travel and live wherever we wished without government interference. So why the support for nationalistic patriotic populism of Trump? Aren't these immigrants flowing across our borders simply anarchocapitalists filling the needs of the free market? After all, they are coming here for work.

If you are arguing for abolishing the US government, I agree with you.

However, as long as we have a government, the taxpayers are paying all the costs of illegal immigration, as well as all the other costs of government. You can't have open borders and a welfare state, or you will be overrun by grifters wanting a handout.

So before we open the borders, we need to get rid of all forms of welfare, including any kind of government-paid services, e.g., Medicare or Medicain. We also need to eliminate all business regulation, all gun control and all drug laws. In addition, property owners must have the absolute right to exclude anyone from their property for any reason or no reason.

I may have overlooked something, but I think that's close enough to allow opening the borders.

Ending the issue of illegal immigration would be a lot easier if Trump would set his sites on hitting employers with stiff fines and or jail sentences. Any idea why he hasn't done this and continues to focus his efforts on the poor employees?

[doodle]

There is a very odd movement afoot, most prominently in the Yale and Columbia circles (which have always embraced a leftist revolutionary slant on the law), to dismantle the law and legal system as we know it and to usher in a system known as "reflexive law." When I first heard this term, I was skeptical, since after many decades in litigation and legal analysis there aren't many legal concepts with which I'm unfamiliar.

It took reading a number of very lengthy law review articles coming out of these institutions, and to get past all the double-talk and euphemisms, to understand what they were really talking about.

Once I understood where they were coming from (and it isn't easy), I immediately saw that they were not talking about "law" at all. What they are advocating is in essence a system of behavior modification whereby instantaneous rewards and punishments are used as a tool of coercion to manage, right down to the minutest detail, both individuals and societies. It assumes a complex, highly integrated, system of monitoring and control over both the production and use of resources which would be achieved through a coordinated, highly networked system of feedback such as those envisioned for "smart cities" using 5G technology. I believe that China was, and is, the prototype for this kind of system.

Watch this development, as I guarantee it's only getting started. If you ever read Waldon Two, it's time to read it again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walden_Two

Walden Two was very interesting read. I second recommendation.