Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

General Discussion on the Permanent Portfolio Strategy

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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by Kevin K. » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:45 pm

I chimed in on that thread with the modest suggestion that "Beware the Hype of the Three-Fund Portfolio" might be a more beneficial thread given its atrocious risk-adjusted performance, drawdowns and dismal safe withdrawal rates compared to not just the PP but all the other portfolios that include gold on Portfolio Charts.

There are a few other PP fans and some others expressing an agnostic or at least non-allergic approach to gold but for the most part it's same old, same old. That forum is fundamentalism sans "fun."
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by Smith1776 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:59 pm

craigr wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:28 am

Bill Bernstein and I are friends and when I am visiting in town where he lives I have gone to his house for dinner with him and his lovely wife. I talked to him quite a bit when he wrote the book Deep Risk and am mentioned in the acknowledgements which is why is why it has my overtones in it I suspect.

I think Bill's main critique of the PP is that it has tracking error vs. a more conventional portfolio. This is completely valid to me. This is probably why the portfolio tends to attract very engineer/technical/introvert types that are able to detach themselves emotionally I feel. It takes a certain personality to take the Red Pill and just let go of trying to predict the markets. It also takes a certain kind of person that is OK with a portfolio that just tries to ride the middle and doesn't get worked up when Bob in Accounting is bragging about their 22.7% gains in TechCorp stock that year.

I think the PP really incorporates philosophy of being very detached yet prepared for the unexpected. One thing I've always liked about the portfolio is that it gives you options to respond to extraordinary scenarios. You can hang tight, but if things are going truly off the rails you aren't so locked into a single asset that you lose everything. It's important in a crisis to always have options available to respond even if you don't have to use them. For me, that PP does exactly that.
Interesting insights as always. I had never considered that the PP would have special appeal to those who are technical/introvert/math/science types. That would explain a lot on my part!

I try to explain to people that indeed the PP is a portfolio that is detached but prepared. It's neutral to the future. However, most people think it's a doomsday portfolio which it is no such thing.
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by mathjak107 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:41 pm

pp4me wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:34 am
I see they now have a "Beware the Hype of Gold" thread that was begun by the much respected Taylor Lattimore.

Since he had good things to say about the PP in a review of the book I'm going to assume he means you might want to think twice about rushing into it at $2k/ounce if you don't own any.

That would probably be good advice but if you actually did want to start the PP right now, what asset class wouldn't you be worried about?
Anyone who stays invested is actually buying in each day at the current price ....there so no logic at all in thinking that somehow it is different if you first buy in ....that balance is all ours at any point in time ...if it falls thousands of dollars from here our balance is down the same amount whether we bought in now or 20 years ago .

Some one may be buying 20k of Gld today who sold a total market fund and made 20k .

You may be up 20k in gld ........either way if it falls 5k we are both down 5k in net worth
.

So every day at the open in effect we are buying in at that days prices

Let this sink in
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by Smith1776 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:59 pm

mathjak107 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:41 pm

Anyone who stays invested is actually buying in each day at the current price ....there so no logic at all in thinking that somehow it is different if you first buy in ....that balance is all ours at any point in time ...if it falls thousands of dollars from here our balance is down the same amount whether we bought in now or 20 years ago .

Some one may be buying 20k of Gld today who sold a total market fund and made 20k .

You may be up 20k in gld ........either way if it falls 5k we are both down 5k in net worth
.

So every day at the open in effect we are buying in at that days prices

Let this sink in
That's a very good point that Larry Swedroe also liked to hammer home, but few really took to heart.

Every day you decide to continue holding is the same thing as deciding to buy that day.
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by mathjak107 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:35 pm

Investors make this silly statement all the time as they stay invested every day but tell others they wouldn’t invest new money at this price ..DUH.
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by dualstow » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:30 pm

mathjak107 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:35 pm
Investors make this silly statement all the time as they stay invested every day but tell others they wouldn’t invest new money at this price ..DUH.
Well, I’m holding NEE (variable portfolio) and I would not invest new money. I am happy to hold it and collect dividends. If it should drop, even precipitously, I can still sell it at a profit.
I don’t want to buy more gold at 1994/oz, but I’m happy to hold that too. That’s part of the pp so I’ll go by the bands or at the very least, an annual checkup.

Maybe it’s an illusion but I’m sticking with it.
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by mathjak107 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:33 pm

Not wanting anymore invested in an asset is different ....that would be true at any price ........

But each day all our investments add up to a certain value .....if they fall we are down the same whether new money or old money in them..

Our balance does not care what part of that balance is profit or what you started with ....down is down
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by dualstow » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:35 pm

yep
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by Libertarian666 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:44 pm

pp4me wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:34 am
I see they now have a "Beware the Hype of Gold" thread that was begun by the much respected Taylor Lattimore.

Since he had good things to say about the PP in a review of the book I'm going to assume he means you might want to think twice about rushing into it at $2k/ounce if you don't own any.

That would probably be good advice but if you actually did want to start the PP right now, what asset class wouldn't you be worried about?
The piece "Wild About Harry" by Bill Bernstein (http://www.efficientfrontier.com/ef/0adhoc/harry.htm) covers that ground pretty well, I think.
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by Kevin K. » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:51 pm

craigr wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:28 am
Kevin K. wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:42 pm
It was indeed great fun to read the witty William Bernstein quote! If only the rest of the crew on that forum had a fraction of Bernstein's brilliance and sincere appreciation of risk parity portfolios like the PP. His book "Deep Risk" is essentially a dialogue with Craig's writing on the PP and Browne's work itself and for me anyway helped me appreciate the PP more and, especially, made me realize how brilliant the Golden Butterfly iteration of the PP is.
Bill Bernstein and I are friends and when I am visiting in town where he lives I have gone to his house for dinner with him and his lovely wife. I talked to him quite a bit when he wrote the book Deep Risk and am mentioned in the acknowledgements which is why is why it has my overtones in it I suspect.

I think Bill's main critique of the PP is that it has tracking error vs. a more conventional portfolio. This is completely valid to me. This is probably why the portfolio tends to attract very engineer/technical/introvert types that are able to detach themselves emotionally I feel. It takes a certain personality to take the Red Pill and just let go of trying to predict the markets. It also takes a certain kind of person that is OK with a portfolio that just tries to ride the middle and doesn't get worked up when Bob in Accounting is bragging about their 22.7% gains in TechCorp stock that year.

I think the PP really incorporates philosophy of being very detached yet prepared for the unexpected. One thing I've always liked about the portfolio is that it gives you options to respond to extraordinary scenarios. You can hang tight, but if things are going truly off the rails you aren't so locked into a single asset that you lose everything. It's important in a crisis to always have options available to respond even if you don't have to use them. For me, that PP does exactly that.
It's always a treat to read your posts Craig! Let me add my gratitude to that others have expressed here for everything you've done to get the word out about the PP and Harry Browne.

Tracking error regret is one thing that Bernstein mentions but I think his more important quibbles with the PP as expressed in "Deep Risk" are that the 4 x 25% PP errs in allocating equal parts of the portfolio to deal with events that are anything but equally likely to occur, aren't equally devastating if the do occur, and involve different costs to defend against. Then there's the not-incidental matter that Browne spoke of gold as offering inflation protection when cash and stocks perform that function.

Bernstein does a much better job critiquing the PP than he does of providing actionable alternatives, but if memory serves he recommends a larger allocation to stocks (including international and tilts to small and value) and oodles of liquidity (i.e. cash). I see the Golden Butterfly as the best integration of Bernstein's ideas thus far in that it tilts towards prosperity (the most likely economic condition over time) and includes a sizable chunk of value stocks. Higher returns than the PP but more interestingly much higher safe withdrawal rates and much faster recoveries from drawdowns as well.
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by bedraggled » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:06 pm

I believe last year someone suggested if/when CraigR or Medium Tex post, people should jump in their cars and track them down. Time was of the essence then. Might have to take one of the idled cruise ships to find CraigR.

Maybe with the virus inconvenience, just let it go for now.
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by craigr » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:31 pm

Kevin K. wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:51 pm
craigr wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:28 am
Kevin K. wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:42 pm
It was indeed great fun to read the witty William Bernstein quote! If only the rest of the crew on that forum had a fraction of Bernstein's brilliance and sincere appreciation of risk parity portfolios like the PP. His book "Deep Risk" is essentially a dialogue with Craig's writing on the PP and Browne's work itself and for me anyway helped me appreciate the PP more and, especially, made me realize how brilliant the Golden Butterfly iteration of the PP is.
Bill Bernstein and I are friends and when I am visiting in town where he lives I have gone to his house for dinner with him and his lovely wife. I talked to him quite a bit when he wrote the book Deep Risk and am mentioned in the acknowledgements which is why is why it has my overtones in it I suspect.

I think Bill's main critique of the PP is that it has tracking error vs. a more conventional portfolio. This is completely valid to me. This is probably why the portfolio tends to attract very engineer/technical/introvert types that are able to detach themselves emotionally I feel. It takes a certain personality to take the Red Pill and just let go of trying to predict the markets. It also takes a certain kind of person that is OK with a portfolio that just tries to ride the middle and doesn't get worked up when Bob in Accounting is bragging about their 22.7% gains in TechCorp stock that year.

I think the PP really incorporates philosophy of being very detached yet prepared for the unexpected. One thing I've always liked about the portfolio is that it gives you options to respond to extraordinary scenarios. You can hang tight, but if things are going truly off the rails you aren't so locked into a single asset that you lose everything. It's important in a crisis to always have options available to respond even if you don't have to use them. For me, that PP does exactly that.
It's always a treat to read your posts Craig! Let me add my gratitude to that others have expressed here for everything you've done to get the word out about the PP and Harry Browne.

Tracking error regret is one thing that Bernstein mentions but I think his more important quibbles with the PP as expressed in "Deep Risk" are that the 4 x 25% PP errs in allocating equal parts of the portfolio to deal with events that are anything but equally likely to occur, aren't equally devastating if the do occur, and involve different costs to defend against. Then there's the not-incidental matter that Browne spoke of gold as offering inflation protection when cash and stocks perform that function.

Bernstein does a much better job critiquing the PP than he does of providing actionable alternatives, but if memory serves he recommends a larger allocation to stocks (including international and tilts to small and value) and oodles of liquidity (i.e. cash). I see the Golden Butterfly as the best integration of Bernstein's ideas thus far in that it tilts towards prosperity (the most likely economic condition over time) and includes a sizable chunk of value stocks. Higher returns than the PP but more interestingly much higher safe withdrawal rates and much faster recoveries from drawdowns as well.
Yes I see his point on the equal split and we did talk about that. The issue really is if I knew what the proper risk of each asset was based on the future then I'd just go all in on that one and ignore the others (or hold the one best asset and a bunch of cash). I don't think looking at past markets can predict these things which is what some risk parity approaches are trying to do.

But I get it that owning more stocks is an easy way to take advantage of the most likely outcome and I can't fault people for taking advantage of that bias if appropriate. Over the years when people have wanted to do a VP side of things I just recommended buying more of the total stock market index and leave things alone. I don't know what that figure is though. Is it 50% stocks and ~17% bonds/cash/gold? Or is it 30% stocks? It's what people can stomach I suspect.

But for pure simplicity I think the 25% split is pretty hard to beat. The performance differences around the edges are often negligible in real life if it allows the investor to hold the course and not panic in a market crash. Or, even worse, go into their portfolio and start tinkering all the time with different ratios thinking they are fixing things.
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by craigr » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:34 pm

bedraggled wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:06 pm
I believe last year someone suggested if/when CraigR or Medium Tex post, people should jump in their cars and track them down. Time was of the essence then. Might have to take one of the idled cruise ships to find CraigR.

Maybe with the virus inconvenience, just let it go for now.
I am lurking from time to time so you never know when I'll appear. Hopefully Tex will come around some time. I've not heard from him in a while.
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by boglerdude » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:11 am

craigr wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:34 pm
I am lurking from time to time so you never know when I'll appear. Hopefully Tex will come around some time. I've not heard from him in a while.
Whats your take on Trump and the lockdown. IIRC you commented that Trump would close the border as part of bringing in medicare for all
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by mathjak107 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:02 am

dualstow wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:30 pm
mathjak107 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:35 pm
Investors make this silly statement all the time as they stay invested every day but tell others they wouldn’t invest new money at this price ..DUH.
Well, I’m holding NEE (variable portfolio) and I would not invest new money. I am happy to hold it and collect dividends. If it should drop, even precipitously, I can still sell it at a profit.
I don’t want to buy more gold at 1994/oz, but I’m happy to hold that too. That’s part of the pp so I’ll go by the bands or at the very least, an annual checkup.

Maybe it’s an illusion but I’m sticking with it.
one thing i will add is that mental plays a big roll when it comes to our thinking .......

i had the largest amount ever in the pp ... 800k IN EACH ...

i have to admit at these levels i was uncomfortable with so much in it ... not only because the volatility was off the hook when more than 2 assets moved in the same direction but the thought that all parts except cash where at or near all time highs .

i took huge profits yesterday and cut things down to 400k in each ........

the gold profits were just insane.....

88,189.00 in gains from gld and iau , GAINS FROM LONG TERM TREASURIES via TLT 32,837.00.

overall gains ytd for us are over 250k . so i don't mind waiting things out a bit over weight cash ...we still have a crap load of dough in the pp
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by dualstow » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:48 am

mathjak107 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:02 am
one thing i will add is that mental plays a big roll when it comes to our thinking .......
Milk plays a big role on dairy farms. O0
No, I got you- you mean mental accounting, and I totally agree.
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by Kevin K. » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:06 pm

craigr wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:31 pm
Kevin K. wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:51 pm
craigr wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:28 am
Kevin K. wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:42 pm
It was indeed great fun to read the witty William Bernstein quote! If only the rest of the crew on that forum had a fraction of Bernstein's brilliance and sincere appreciation of risk parity portfolios like the PP. His book "Deep Risk" is essentially a dialogue with Craig's writing on the PP and Browne's work itself and for me anyway helped me appreciate the PP more and, especially, made me realize how brilliant the Golden Butterfly iteration of the PP is.
Bill Bernstein and I are friends and when I am visiting in town where he lives I have gone to his house for dinner with him and his lovely wife. I talked to him quite a bit when he wrote the book Deep Risk and am mentioned in the acknowledgements which is why is why it has my overtones in it I suspect.

I think Bill's main critique of the PP is that it has tracking error vs. a more conventional portfolio. This is completely valid to me. This is probably why the portfolio tends to attract very engineer/technical/introvert types that are able to detach themselves emotionally I feel. It takes a certain personality to take the Red Pill and just let go of trying to predict the markets. It also takes a certain kind of person that is OK with a portfolio that just tries to ride the middle and doesn't get worked up when Bob in Accounting is bragging about their 22.7% gains in TechCorp stock that year.

I think the PP really incorporates philosophy of being very detached yet prepared for the unexpected. One thing I've always liked about the portfolio is that it gives you options to respond to extraordinary scenarios. You can hang tight, but if things are going truly off the rails you aren't so locked into a single asset that you lose everything. It's important in a crisis to always have options available to respond even if you don't have to use them. For me, that PP does exactly that.
It's always a treat to read your posts Craig! Let me add my gratitude to that others have expressed here for everything you've done to get the word out about the PP and Harry Browne.

Tracking error regret is one thing that Bernstein mentions but I think his more important quibbles with the PP as expressed in "Deep Risk" are that the 4 x 25% PP errs in allocating equal parts of the portfolio to deal with events that are anything but equally likely to occur, aren't equally devastating if the do occur, and involve different costs to defend against. Then there's the not-incidental matter that Browne spoke of gold as offering inflation protection when cash and stocks perform that function.

Bernstein does a much better job critiquing the PP than he does of providing actionable alternatives, but if memory serves he recommends a larger allocation to stocks (including international and tilts to small and value) and oodles of liquidity (i.e. cash). I see the Golden Butterfly as the best integration of Bernstein's ideas thus far in that it tilts towards prosperity (the most likely economic condition over time) and includes a sizable chunk of value stocks. Higher returns than the PP but more interestingly much higher safe withdrawal rates and much faster recoveries from drawdowns as well.
Yes I see his point on the equal split and we did talk about that. The issue really is if I knew what the proper risk of each asset was based on the future then I'd just go all in on that one and ignore the others (or hold the one best asset and a bunch of cash). I don't think looking at past markets can predict these things which is what some risk parity approaches are trying to do.

But I get it that owning more stocks is an easy way to take advantage of the most likely outcome and I can't fault people for taking advantage of that bias if appropriate. Over the years when people have wanted to do a VP side of things I just recommended buying more of the total stock market index and leave things alone. I don't know what that figure is though. Is it 50% stocks and ~17% bonds/cash/gold? Or is it 30% stocks? It's what people can stomach I suspect.

But for pure simplicity I think the 25% split is pretty hard to beat. The performance differences around the edges are often negligible in real life if it allows the investor to hold the course and not panic in a market crash. Or, even worse, go into their portfolio and start tinkering all the time with different ratios thinking they are fixing things.
Your wisdom and deep understanding of both Harry Browne’s work and real-world investor behavior really shines here Craig. It’s truly a treat to hear your voice again on this forum. Thanks very much!
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by jhogue » Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:29 am

I think that the most damaging charge of Bill Bernstein’s “Wild about Harry” review of the Permanent Portfolio was that its investors were way too fickle: rushing into the portfolio when gold was moving higher, and heading for the exit in droves when stocks are shooting through the roof. Bernstein is too smart a critic not to recognize the fundamental error of blaming the portfolio for the mistakes made by investors who don’t really understand what they are buying.
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by dualstow » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:11 am

jhogue wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:29 am
I think that the most damaging charge of Bill Bernstein’s “Wild about Harry” review of the Permanent Portfolio was that its investors were way too fickle: rushing into the portfolio when gold was moving higher, and heading for the exit in droves when stocks are shooting through the roof. Bernstein is too smart a critic not to recognize the fundamental error of blaming the portfolio for the mistakes made by investors who don’t really understand what they are buying.
I think he was dead-on with that point, though. Of course, as it applies to human nature, not to the portfolio. As you said, a distinction should be made. The oft-criticized manager of PRPFX said something similar: people exited in droves during lean years. Their loss. They’re not real pp investors.
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by Libertarian666 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:23 am

dualstow wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:11 am
jhogue wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:29 am
I think that the most damaging charge of Bill Bernstein’s “Wild about Harry” review of the Permanent Portfolio was that its investors were way too fickle: rushing into the portfolio when gold was moving higher, and heading for the exit in droves when stocks are shooting through the roof. Bernstein is too smart a critic not to recognize the fundamental error of blaming the portfolio for the mistakes made by investors who don’t really understand what they are buying.
I think he was dead-on with that point, though. Of course, as it applies to human nature, not to the portfolio. As you said, a distinction should be made. The oft-criticized manager of PRPFX said something similar: people exited in droves during lean years. Their loss. They’re not real pp investors.
Yes, but I think Bill was correct that it's even harder to maintain your position when everyone around you is doing better than you are, so that is a valid psychologically based issue for a "weird" portfolio.

Of course by this point I can say that I personally am not terribly affected by such matters. :D
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by dualstow » Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:43 am

I can't stand my friend who only holds Apple and Google. O0
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by vnatale » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:14 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:23 am
dualstow wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:11 am
jhogue wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:29 am
I think that the most damaging charge of Bill Bernstein’s “Wild about Harry” review of the Permanent Portfolio was that its investors were way too fickle: rushing into the portfolio when gold was moving higher, and heading for the exit in droves when stocks are shooting through the roof. Bernstein is too smart a critic not to recognize the fundamental error of blaming the portfolio for the mistakes made by investors who don’t really understand what they are buying.
I think he was dead-on with that point, though. Of course, as it applies to human nature, not to the portfolio. As you said, a distinction should be made. The oft-criticized manager of PRPFX said something similar: people exited in droves during lean years. Their loss. They’re not real pp investors.
Yes, but I think Bill was correct that it's even harder to maintain your position when everyone around you is doing better than you are, so that is a valid psychologically based issue for a "weird" portfolio.

Of course by this point I can say that I personally am not terribly affected by such matters. :D
And, also of course, if you WERE affected by such matters then you would no longer be the man known as Libertarian666!

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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by Kevin K. » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:52 pm

dualstow wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:11 am
jhogue wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:29 am
I think that the most damaging charge of Bill Bernstein’s “Wild about Harry” review of the Permanent Portfolio was that its investors were way too fickle: rushing into the portfolio when gold was moving higher, and heading for the exit in droves when stocks are shooting through the roof. Bernstein is too smart a critic not to recognize the fundamental error of blaming the portfolio for the mistakes made by investors who don’t really understand what they are buying.
I think he was dead-on with that point, though. Of course, as it applies to human nature, not to the portfolio. As you said, a distinction should be made. The oft-criticized manager of PRPFX said something similar: people exited in droves during lean years. Their loss. They’re not real pp investors.
No question Bernstein is right about people having a hard time sticking with portfolios like the PP that have a ton of tracking error vs. the markets. Same is true of other defensive allocations like the Larry Swedroe, All Weather, etc. On the other hand one of the reasons Dr. Bernstein has written so much about defensive and LMP portfolios in the first place is that a lot of his own very wealthy and supposedly sophisticated, risk-tolerance-tested clients panicked and headed for the exits during the 2008 market crash. So as you say, it's human nature. For proof just look at all the new threads on gold and alternatives to 60:40 over on the KH forum.
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by Libertarian666 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:55 pm

vnatale wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:14 am
Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:23 am
dualstow wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:11 am
jhogue wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:29 am
I think that the most damaging charge of Bill Bernstein’s “Wild about Harry” review of the Permanent Portfolio was that its investors were way too fickle: rushing into the portfolio when gold was moving higher, and heading for the exit in droves when stocks are shooting through the roof. Bernstein is too smart a critic not to recognize the fundamental error of blaming the portfolio for the mistakes made by investors who don’t really understand what they are buying.
I think he was dead-on with that point, though. Of course, as it applies to human nature, not to the portfolio. As you said, a distinction should be made. The oft-criticized manager of PRPFX said something similar: people exited in droves during lean years. Their loss. They’re not real pp investors.
Yes, but I think Bill was correct that it's even harder to maintain your position when everyone around you is doing better than you are, so that is a valid psychologically based issue for a "weird" portfolio.

Of course by this point I can say that I personally am not terribly affected by such matters. :D
And, also of course, if you WERE affected by such matters then you would no longer be the man known as Libertarian666!

Vinny
Thank you for the compliment!
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vnatale
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Re: Knuckleheads PP thread resurrected

Post by vnatale » Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:31 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:55 pm
vnatale wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:14 am
Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:23 am
dualstow wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:11 am
jhogue wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:29 am
I think that the most damaging charge of Bill Bernstein’s “Wild about Harry” review of the Permanent Portfolio was that its investors were way too fickle: rushing into the portfolio when gold was moving higher, and heading for the exit in droves when stocks are shooting through the roof. Bernstein is too smart a critic not to recognize the fundamental error of blaming the portfolio for the mistakes made by investors who don’t really understand what they are buying.
I think he was dead-on with that point, though. Of course, as it applies to human nature, not to the portfolio. As you said, a distinction should be made. The oft-criticized manager of PRPFX said something similar: people exited in droves during lean years. Their loss. They’re not real pp investors.
Yes, but I think Bill was correct that it's even harder to maintain your position when everyone around you is doing better than you are, so that is a valid psychologically based issue for a "weird" portfolio.

Of course by this point I can say that I personally am not terribly affected by such matters. :D
And, also of course, if you WERE affected by such matters then you would no longer be the man known as Libertarian666!

Vinny
Thank you for the compliment!
Only speaking the truth as I can fathom it!

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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