Coronavirus General Discussion

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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:05 am

While I was moving around the house getting things done I listened to this on my wireless headphones and it is outstanding!

Together During Covid19: Dr. David Katz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeXITBl6W8Q

The doctor was asked ALL the questions and he directly answers ALL of them.

As soon as I finally take my morning shower I'm headed outside to organize a lot of papers. But while doing so I'm am AGAIN going to listen to this entire thing. And, I'll have my iPad with me so I can take some notes, which I will then pass on here.

If WiseOne listens to this I'd be extremely interested in her reaction as his approach seems quite similar to what it seems to what she preaches to us here. Essentially, taking a risk based approach.

Finally, it's his impression that 50% of the population is resistant to the virus and it only affects 20% of the population. Again, HIS impression. Not yet scientifically based.

Vinny
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:04 pm

Just finished listening for the second time. Below are my notes.

Vinny

Dr. Katz


Desperately sick in hospital primarily there for three reasons: tobacco, lack of physical exercise, poor diet. Responsible for 80% of premature deaths. Far and away diet is the most. Every year, aside from the virus, kills 500,000 people.


Main good diet based around real food -- identifiable from nature, plant based, plain water. About 15 types of diets can include this.


What you do is based upon who you are with and what is going around viral circulation-wise. He hugged his mom for the first time.


Basic precautions go far tempered by the relative risk around you. If low risk you can relax some of the precautions.


Any infectious disease depends upon the dose and your degree of defense.


There has not been one documented case of anyone getting the virus from a surface. Quite low risk.


Your exposure to viral load is determinant. Singing greatly spreads. Talking outside in the sunlight is much safer.


Going to a supermarket should not be dangerous because of what they and you are doing. Everyone wearing a mask. No risk from someone touching food.


Eating at restaurants depends where you are in the country. Would need to take more precautions in Arizona.


Barbershops safe with proper precautions.


Would eat food prepared in a restaurant.


Feel as safe in other stores as in a supermarket.


He makes a distinction between protests and annual event gatherings. The latter can be postponed while the former is not a scheduled event.


You protest when you passions are inflamed. One had more discretion on timing than the other.


Seemed like the protests in the Northeast did not lead to spreading.


His impression is that 50 to 80% of the people have native resistance while only 20 to 50% get it. And with the 20% we may have achieved herd immunity.


That may explain why the Northeast protests did not lead to outbreaks.


True health initiative


You want to look both ways. It's bad to get the virus. It's also bad to lose your job. Need to do risk based interdiction. If you are under 50 and in good health you have little too worry about. But don't be a spreader to those at risk.


Shutdowns were done haphazardly. Schools should not have shut down. A lot else should not have been shut down.


Should be reopened in a risk stratified manner,


It's soon to open up and if you are a vulnerable person and feel okay.


He looks at big picture while he is a scientist involved with the virus he also worries about jobs.


No one has an idea when there could be a vaccine. Maybe never.


When he was volunteering in new York city he was seeing more effective treatments every day. Treatment protocols were radically different from the week before.


The percentage of people who survive is going up every week. Successful treatment knowledge being constantly shared from around the world.


If only a few hundred in a state of several million of means your risk is like winning the lottery. Slim. Situational awareness.


In the Northeast he feels fine with his elderly parents coming back to normal life.


Does not see a second wave because of so much native resistance and those already exposed.


Seeing a delayed first wave in some parts of the country due to premature lockdown.


Need to lead with healthy young people getting out there.


Don't fear for a second wave in New York City.


His first column about the virus was early February.


From the beginning he wanted data, who was at risk, so as to do risk stratification.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:19 pm

Just finished listening to Episode One of this series. Also quite good.

If you listen to it will reaffirm many of the suppositions that several of you have made here.

Episode 1: How We Got Here

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/t ... 1504360345

Vinny
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by WiseOne » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:58 pm

Well that is the epitome of "tl;dr" and I definitely didn't have time to plow through a one hour video, but basically it sounds like I would mostly agree with this guy - except for the bit about the plant based diet.

Basically I think that there are two possible endpoints to this pandemic (or rather, to the reaction to it). One is that a vaccine widely considered to be effective and safe is produced and administered to enough Americans to achieve herd immunity. The other is that the virus spreads sufficiently to achieve the same result. My money is on #2.

I absolutely agree that NY/NJ already has herd immunity, and there will be no further large outbreaks here. The ongoing protests & riots were a pretty darn good test of that assertion: they had zero effect on cases here, but I think they were the trigger for the rapid rise in cases in other states. Note that unlike in NY, the cases in other states were concentrated among young healthy people - exactly the demographic who were out there protesting. Those states will get to the same place as us in the next month or two....and that's a good thing from the point of view of getting the economy & life back to normal as quickly as possible. Well, as normal as governments allow of course...they'll try to keep up the lockdowns for far longer than necessary, and it's a matter of when people simply start ignoring the rules. That's already happening here in NY, judging by Cuomo's frequent temper tantrums on the subject.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:00 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:58 pm
I absolutely agree that NY/NJ already has herd immunity, and there will be no further large outbreaks here.
According to Gov. Murphy, cases are rising in NJ at the highest rate in months, so he’s considering new restrictions:

https://www.inquirer.com/news/coronavir ... 00731.html
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by WiseOne » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:18 pm

Ah, looks like the Philly area. Northeastern NJ (i.e. NYC suburbs) are fine. That's where the earlier epicenter was - not the rest of the state.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:03 am

WiseOne wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:58 pm
Basically I think that there are two possible endpoints to this pandemic (or rather, to the reaction to it). One is that a vaccine widely considered to be effective and safe is produced and administered to enough Americans to achieve herd immunity. The other is that the virus spreads sufficiently to achieve the same result. My money is on #2.
How on earth do we ever get to scenario #2 when we lockdown every time there is a spike of new positives and we seems to be focused on avoiding getting it at all costs? I mean the average citizen thinks 9% of Americans have died already.

https://www.kekstcnc.com/insights/covid ... -edition-4
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Hal » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:06 am

Meanwhile in "The Peoples Paradise".....

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2020/0 ... vid-cases/

Guess allowing the protests were not such a great idea after all :P
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:16 am

jalanlong wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:03 am
WiseOne wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:58 pm
Basically I think that there are two possible endpoints to this pandemic (or rather, to the reaction to it). One is that a vaccine widely considered to be effective and safe is produced and administered to enough Americans to achieve herd immunity. The other is that the virus spreads sufficiently to achieve the same result. My money is on #2.
How on earth do we ever get to scenario #2 when we lockdown every time there is a spike of new positives and we seems to be focused on avoiding getting it at all costs? I mean the average citizen thinks 9% of Americans have died already.

https://www.kekstcnc.com/insights/covid ... -edition-4
Because the typical politician is not going to use logic and analysis but will, instead, react to the emotional response of the voter?

Otherwise, why have so many schools invested so much unproductive money into hardening their schools in some way so as to offer protection from an active shooter? An extremely unlikely possibility for any school in the country?

Vinny
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:25 am

Lots of data in this link for Delaware for you data lovers (Vinny, I'm looking at you! ;) ). Note of 515 confirmed and 70 probable = 585 total COVID-19 deaths so far in a population of 974,051, 83% are the age 65+ category and 361 were residents of long-term care facilities. I also thought it was interesting that the most cases are in the 18 to 49 age groups (is that the party hard group together crowd?).

https://myhealthycommunity.dhss.delawar ... ions/state

.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by dualstow » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:39 am

Hal wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:06 am
Meanwhile in "The Peoples Paradise".....

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2020/0 ... vid-cases/

Guess allowing the protests were not such a great idea after all :P
ha!/yikes
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Hal » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:50 am

dualstow wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:39 am
Hal wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:06 am
Meanwhile in "The Peoples Paradise".....

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2020/0 ... vid-cases/

Guess allowing the protests were not such a great idea after all :P
ha!/yikes
Yes, a curfew.... Do they think the virus is spread after dark by Dracula ??
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Xan » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:07 am

Interesting article on neurological effects:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/29/health/c ... index.html
This is what Pastor Wolfmueller has been dealing with...
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by WiseOne » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:00 am

Yes it does look like COVID can trigger central nervous system inflammation, or invade the brain directly. So far though, the evidence says that any sequelae (like anosmia) are reversible.

Many viruses do that, including some common everyday cold viruses. With COVID, they're finding out a lot more about it because COVID research is fashionable right now so lots of people are looking into it. Previously, it wasn't a hot research area so there's a lot less known about those other viruses. Here's a few of the worst ones: Measles, polio, diptheria, and mumps. And there are quite a few for which there are no vaccines.

Mother Nature, what on earth possessed you to make viruses??? Bad idea!!
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:12 am

For "research" purposes I decided to peruse Facebook today to see if I could get an understanding of the minds of people who have bought 100% into the Covid fear and want perpetual school and business closures.

From what I can gather, the majority of them (or at least the ones on Facebook) are female. They are of the opinion that statistics and percentages do not matter and you will realize that when it is YOUR family member that is suffering and dying. Plus they believe the statistics also don't matter because even some people who have have gotten it and not died will have lifelong complications from it. You should not want any child to have to see their parents dying or suffering the rest of their lives for something like this. So as a compassionate society we should try to protect as many people as we possibly can at all costs. If you prioritize anything over lives then you are heartless. For them, any side effects you might mention such as lost jobs, bankrupt businesses, children isolated in their formative years etc. all pale in comparison to the spectre of someone suffering and dying.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Libertarian666 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:26 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:12 am
For "research" purposes I decided to peruse Facebook today to see if I could get an understanding of the minds of people who have bought 100% into the Covid fear and want perpetual school and business closures.

From what I can gather, the majority of them (or at least the ones on Facebook) are female. They are of the opinion that statistics and percentages do not matter and you will realize that when it is YOUR family member that is suffering and dying. Plus they believe the statistics also don't matter because even some people who have have gotten it and not died will have lifelong complications from it. You should not want any child to have to see their parents dying or suffering the rest of their lives for something like this. So as a compassionate society we should try to protect as many people as we possibly can at all costs. If you prioritize anything over lives then you are heartless. For them, any side effects you might mention such as lost jobs, bankrupt businesses, children isolated in their formative years etc. all pale in comparison to the spectre of someone suffering and dying.
Right. That's why MBTI F's, especially SF's, should not be in charge of anything other than their immediate families.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:10 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:12 am
For "research" purposes I decided to peruse Facebook today to see if I could get an understanding of the minds of people who have bought 100% into the Covid fear and want perpetual school and business closures.

From what I can gather, the majority of them (or at least the ones on Facebook) are female. They are of the opinion that statistics and percentages do not matter and you will realize that when it is YOUR family member that is suffering and dying. Plus they believe the statistics also don't matter because even some people who have have gotten it and not died will have lifelong complications from it. You should not want any child to have to see their parents dying or suffering the rest of their lives for something like this. So as a compassionate society we should try to protect as many people as we possibly can at all costs. If you prioritize anything over lives then you are heartless. For them, any side effects you might mention such as lost jobs, bankrupt businesses, children isolated in their formative years etc. all pale in comparison to the spectre of someone suffering and dying.
Yet these same females will constantly subject their children to all risks inherent by them being in any kind of vehicle that travels on common roads.

We could pass laws that everyone can only drive in Range Rovers and the speed limit would be 20 mph everywhere. Under that scenario would there ever be a child harmed in a vehicle accident? But even they would realize how devastating that would be to the economy and to their lifestyles.

I was not able to quickly locate how many children in the United States are killed and injured each year in vehicle accidents.

I did find this:

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-shee ... c-injuries

"Approximately 1.35 million people die each year as a result of road traffic crashes."

"Road traffic injuries are the leading cause of death for children and young adults aged 5-29 years."

Those same females you cite above seem to accept all this road carnage as just the "price of doing business" and "having a 'normal' life"?

Maybe not explicitly. But certainly implicitly.

Vinny
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by WiseOne » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:16 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:26 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:12 am
For "research" purposes I decided to peruse Facebook today to see if I could get an understanding of the minds of people who have bought 100% into the Covid fear and want perpetual school and business closures.

From what I can gather, the majority of them (or at least the ones on Facebook) are female. They are of the opinion that statistics and percentages do not matter and you will realize that when it is YOUR family member that is suffering and dying. Plus they believe the statistics also don't matter because even some people who have have gotten it and not died will have lifelong complications from it. You should not want any child to have to see their parents dying or suffering the rest of their lives for something like this. So as a compassionate society we should try to protect as many people as we possibly can at all costs. If you prioritize anything over lives then you are heartless. For them, any side effects you might mention such as lost jobs, bankrupt businesses, children isolated in their formative years etc. all pale in comparison to the spectre of someone suffering and dying.
Right. That's why MBTI F's, especially SF's, should not be in charge of anything other than their immediate families.
MBTI? Translate please?

FYI there are plenty of people out there with Y chromosomes who are just as militantly anti-risk when it comes to COVID. Andrew Cuomo, for starters.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:23 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:16 pm
Libertarian666 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:26 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:12 am
For "research" purposes I decided to peruse Facebook today to see if I could get an understanding of the minds of people who have bought 100% into the Covid fear and want perpetual school and business closures.

From what I can gather, the majority of them (or at least the ones on Facebook) are female. They are of the opinion that statistics and percentages do not matter and you will realize that when it is YOUR family member that is suffering and dying. Plus they believe the statistics also don't matter because even some people who have have gotten it and not died will have lifelong complications from it. You should not want any child to have to see their parents dying or suffering the rest of their lives for something like this. So as a compassionate society we should try to protect as many people as we possibly can at all costs. If you prioritize anything over lives then you are heartless. For them, any side effects you might mention such as lost jobs, bankrupt businesses, children isolated in their formative years etc. all pale in comparison to the spectre of someone suffering and dying.
Right. That's why MBTI F's, especially SF's, should not be in charge of anything other than their immediate families.
MBTI? Translate please?

FYI there are plenty of people out there with Y chromosomes who are just as militantly anti-risk when it comes to COVID. Andrew Cuomo, for starters.
I am going to guess: Myers-Briggs Type Indicator.

Vinny
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Xan » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:55 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:23 pm
WiseOne wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:16 pm
Libertarian666 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:26 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:12 am
For "research" purposes I decided to peruse Facebook today to see if I could get an understanding of the minds of people who have bought 100% into the Covid fear and want perpetual school and business closures.

From what I can gather, the majority of them (or at least the ones on Facebook) are female. They are of the opinion that statistics and percentages do not matter and you will realize that when it is YOUR family member that is suffering and dying. Plus they believe the statistics also don't matter because even some people who have have gotten it and not died will have lifelong complications from it. You should not want any child to have to see their parents dying or suffering the rest of their lives for something like this. So as a compassionate society we should try to protect as many people as we possibly can at all costs. If you prioritize anything over lives then you are heartless. For them, any side effects you might mention such as lost jobs, bankrupt businesses, children isolated in their formative years etc. all pale in comparison to the spectre of someone suffering and dying.
Right. That's why MBTI F's, especially SF's, should not be in charge of anything other than their immediate families.
MBTI? Translate please?

FYI there are plenty of people out there with Y chromosomes who are just as militantly anti-risk when it comes to COVID. Andrew Cuomo, for starters.
I am going to guess: Myers-Briggs Type Indicator.

Vinny
Yes, and his "F" means "Feeling" (as opposed to Thinking) in Myers-Briggs, not female. SF means "Sensing" (as opposed to iNtuition) "Feeling".
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:02 pm

Xan wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:55 pm
vnatale wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:23 pm
WiseOne wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:16 pm
Libertarian666 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:26 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:12 am
For "research" purposes I decided to peruse Facebook today to see if I could get an understanding of the minds of people who have bought 100% into the Covid fear and want perpetual school and business closures.

From what I can gather, the majority of them (or at least the ones on Facebook) are female. They are of the opinion that statistics and percentages do not matter and you will realize that when it is YOUR family member that is suffering and dying. Plus they believe the statistics also don't matter because even some people who have have gotten it and not died will have lifelong complications from it. You should not want any child to have to see their parents dying or suffering the rest of their lives for something like this. So as a compassionate society we should try to protect as many people as we possibly can at all costs. If you prioritize anything over lives then you are heartless. For them, any side effects you might mention such as lost jobs, bankrupt businesses, children isolated in their formative years etc. all pale in comparison to the spectre of someone suffering and dying.
Right. That's why MBTI F's, especially SF's, should not be in charge of anything other than their immediate families.
MBTI? Translate please?

FYI there are plenty of people out there with Y chromosomes who are just as militantly anti-risk when it comes to COVID. Andrew Cuomo, for starters.
I am going to guess: Myers-Briggs Type Indicator.

Vinny
Yes, and his "F" means "Feeling" (as opposed to Thinking) in Myers-Briggs, not female. SF means "Sensing" (as opposed to iNtuition) "Feeling".
I would have thought that he would, therefore, have stated "especially NF's" since they ARE the romantics of the world. S's mean taking in information via real means rather than "just knowing" via intuition.

But there may be a bias here toward "N's" since most engineers are "N's" rather than "S's' but are also generally "T's" rather than "F's".

VInny
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:14 pm

https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/watch ... d_ms_tw_ma

Wore one today for the first time in 8 days.

Hated wearing it as soon as I put it on. So much heat on my face. Wore it for a total of an hour today as I insisted the person who was with me in my car also wear one. It was the first time I'd had anyone in my car since prior to March. Also, wore while in Home Depot and Subway. Subway was annoying in that they had chairs set up with yellow tape away from the plastics thing hold all the food. I asked the woman if I could push in the chair a little so I could actually see what my food choices were. But she said, "No. We have to maintain a six foot distance. I eventually found a place on the yellow tape line where I could see all and tell her what to and what not to put on my veggie delite."

VInny
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Xan » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:35 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:14 pm
https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/watch ... d_ms_tw_ma

Wore one today for the first time in 8 days.

Hated wearing it as soon as I put it on. So much heat on my face. Wore it for a total of an hour today as I insisted the person who was with me in my car also wear one. It was the first time I'd had anyone in my car since prior to March. Also, wore while in Home Depot and Subway. Subway was annoying in that they had chairs set up with yellow tape away from the plastics thing hold all the food. I asked the woman if I could push in the chair a little so I could actually see what my food choices were. But she said, "No. We have to maintain a six foot distance. I eventually found a place on the yellow tape line where I could see all and tell her what to and what not to put on my veggie delite."

VInny
Maybe this will finally push Subway to having some "default" sandwiches. Let's take the veggie delite example, but it applies to anything. There's a picture of it up on the board, so there's SOME specific set of SOMETHING that makes up a veggie delite. But I can't go up there and say "I want a veggie delite, just the default stuff on it". No. I have to hem and haw over every single ingredient in the store and give a thumbs up or thumbs down on it. Sheesh! Who's got time for that!

I love a locally-owned sandwich shop here where I can order whatever sandwich and say "however you make it" and they get a big smile and make me a delicious sandwich. Too many other sandwich places just go blank when you ask "what does it normally come with" and reply "whatever you want".

But I digress...
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:46 pm

Xan wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:35 pm
vnatale wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:14 pm
https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/watch ... d_ms_tw_ma

Wore one today for the first time in 8 days.

Hated wearing it as soon as I put it on. So much heat on my face. Wore it for a total of an hour today as I insisted the person who was with me in my car also wear one. It was the first time I'd had anyone in my car since prior to March. Also, wore while in Home Depot and Subway. Subway was annoying in that they had chairs set up with yellow tape away from the plastics thing hold all the food. I asked the woman if I could push in the chair a little so I could actually see what my food choices were. But she said, "No. We have to maintain a six foot distance. I eventually found a place on the yellow tape line where I could see all and tell her what to and what not to put on my veggie delite."

VInny
Maybe this will finally push Subway to having some "default" sandwiches. Let's take the veggie delite example, but it applies to anything. There's a picture of it up on the board, so there's SOME specific set of SOMETHING that makes up a veggie delite. But I can't go up there and say "I want a veggie delite, just the default stuff on it". No. I have to hem and haw over every single ingredient in the store and give a thumbs up or thumbs down on it. Sheesh! Who's got time for that!

I love a locally-owned sandwich shop here where I can order whatever sandwich and say "however you make it" and they get a big smile and make me a delicious sandwich. Too many other sandwich places just go blank when you ask "what does it normally come with" and reply "whatever you want".

But I digress...
I would have gone to somewhere else where the food would have been better but I did not want to put up with the wait to get it made as that would have resulted in me missing ALL of today's exciting Celtics game. At that place, I always order the Veggie Wrap. They have all the ingredients in it listed on their menu board and I always tell them to leave out the dressing. I used to go and order it and eat it every Tuesday and Thursday night prior to playing basketball. When I walked in some of the order takers would know exactly what I wanted it and how I wanted it with their only question being, "Same thing?"

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Tortoise
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:01 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:14 pm
I asked the woman if I could push in the chair a little so I could actually see what my food choices were. But she said, “No. We have to maintain a six foot distance.”
Believe it or not, she saved your life.

If you had stood a distance of 5’11” or less from her, you surely would have perished.
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