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And regarding your earlier post, Maddy, while I am pro-mask and like wearing a mask for many reasons, I am very impressed by your technique.
Moderator: Global Moderator
Typical KarenMaddy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:09 pmWell, for one, I read the governor's order. It laid out a number of exemptions, and I went to work doing what 30 years of legal work taught me to do. I figured out how those exemptions applied to me. I carry a copy of the governor's order delineating the exemptions (you'd be surprised how many store employees and managers have never read it) and a summary of the ADA and the parallel state statute laying out the penalties for noncompliance. They start at $75,000 for the first offense.
I have a number of friends who, by reason of panic attacks, tachycardia, asthma, migraines, moisture-induced acne, actinic keratoses, and plain ol' difficulty breathing have all successfully claimed medical exemptions at the front door. Under the ADA, a store is not permitted to demand documentation or to even ask what the nature of their medical condition is. Not that the Black Shirt monitoring the door at Walmart would have a clue what most of them are, anyway.
Actually, I was turned away once at a hardware store, where the manager refused to recognize my medical exemption. It was about 8:00 in the morning, and by a little after 9, the manager had reversed his stance after I phoned the corporate office and threatened to sue. I had one employee in tears. Okay, I went a little far, and I do feel a little bad about that.
One of these days I'll probably get tired of going through all this sturm und drang, at which point I might try doing what the more creative shoppers at Walmart are doing: https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-07-18- ... appen.html
Nah, screaming Karens don't typically get results. I do.doodle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:58 pmTypical KarenMaddy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:09 pmWell, for one, I read the governor's order. It laid out a number of exemptions, and I went to work doing what 30 years of legal work taught me to do. I figured out how those exemptions applied to me. I carry a copy of the governor's order delineating the exemptions (you'd be surprised how many store employees and managers have never read it) and a summary of the ADA and the parallel state statute laying out the penalties for noncompliance. They start at $75,000 for the first offense.
I have a number of friends who, by reason of panic attacks, tachycardia, asthma, migraines, moisture-induced acne, actinic keratoses, and plain ol' difficulty breathing have all successfully claimed medical exemptions at the front door. Under the ADA, a store is not permitted to demand documentation or to even ask what the nature of their medical condition is. Not that the Black Shirt monitoring the door at Walmart would have a clue what most of them are, anyway.
Actually, I was turned away once at a hardware store, where the manager refused to recognize my medical exemption. It was about 8:00 in the morning, and by a little after 9, the manager had reversed his stance after I phoned the corporate office and threatened to sue. I had one employee in tears. Okay, I went a little far, and I do feel a little bad about that.
One of these days I'll probably get tired of going through all this sturm und drang, at which point I might try doing what the more creative shoppers at Walmart are doing: https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-07-18- ... appen.html
This is typical Karen. You sound exhausting
Actually, I was turned away once at a hardware store, where the manager refused to recognize my medical exemption. It was about 8:00 in the morning, and by a little after 9, the manager had reversed his stance after I phoned the corporate office and threatened to sue. I had one employee in tears. Okay, I went a little far, and I do feel a little bad about that.
I don't think it's possible not to see things through the lens of language.dualstow wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:03 amI’m looking forward to the word karen being retired. Sometimes words come into existence because we feel we need them, but oftentimes the word takes control and we use it because it’s there. We start seeing things through the lens of language instead of (something closer to) objectivity. I don’t like it.
For one thing, it's pretty deeply unfair to people named Karen. I know quite a few of these people and they're wonderful.dualstow wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:03 amI’m looking forward to the word karen being retired. Sometimes words come into existence because we feel we need them, but oftentimes the word takes control and we use it because it’s there. We start seeing things through the lens of language instead of (something closer to) objectivity. I don’t like it.
Phew. And here I was about to put doodle on my ignore list. It's sad, Doodle used to be an outstanding contributor to this forum before his banning a few years back. I wonder if it's even the same person???
In my view, the issue is no longer about a virus (a relative "nothingburger," as it turns out, and not a whole lot different than a bad seasonal flu), but rather about a well-orchestrated effort to tear down the constitutional and cultural underpinnings of our society and to usher in a new world order in which submission to the state is a necessary prerequisite. It's all about creating an environment of unremitting psychological stress and disorientation through a constant parade of unsettling events. "Order through chaos," is a well known Marxist slogan that describes the process by which people, desperate for a return to normalcy, can be induced to willingly turn over their most fundamental freedoms in exchange for the promise of safety.Or is there something else?
Simonjester wrote:funny post timing, i just got wound up at work today by a lady, (who happened to have been a young girl in wartime Germany,) when she was screeching at me to wear a mask (alone in a parking lot) because the state has people driving around handing out 1000$ tickets to workers and businesses..... and the similarity between now and 1930s Germany was exactly the argument that i made...Maddy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:29 pmOr is there something else?
In my view, everything we're seeing today (including the global lockdown, the attack on free speech, the censoring of opposing political viewpoints, the decimation of the economy, the destruction of small business, and the fomenting of violent racial and political strife) all speak to a frantic, stepped up effort to create sufficient chaos and fear that the people will willingly accept the "solution." The parallels between today and 1930s Germany are striking.
We are, as far as I am concerned, in a war--where the survival of our constitutional republic and freedoms are at stake. I absolutely will not submit to their new world order by wearing their symbol of submission.
it didn't register
but i did vent..
this is getting old... i am not even close to being likely to get wound up about much of anything but this has just gone on to long...
I don't recall that being discussed.Xan wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:05 pmMountaineer, does he have any opinion on the overall strategy? In other words, is everyone destined to get this and the point of these mitigations is to "flatten the curve" so that healthcare isn't overwhelmed? Or is the point to have as few people get it as possible until a vaccine? Or is there something else?
For context, Global News is one of our top news sources here, and no this isn't a joke lol.B.C. health officials are recommending an age-old, occasionally cutting-edge tactic for sex during the coronavirus pandemic: “glory holes.”
The B.C. Centre for Disease Control added new recommendations for socially distant sex to its COVID-19 website this week. One of those tips was to try using a “glory hole” — a hole cut into a wall that’s only large enough for a penis to slip through.
To me, this isn't the right question to ask. The right question is "what is the risk of a serious adverse event, and how does it compare with risks I've already decided to tolerate as a matter of routine?Mountaineer wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:32 pmI don't recall that being discussed.Xan wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:05 pmMountaineer, does he have any opinion on the overall strategy? In other words, is everyone destined to get this and the point of these mitigations is to "flatten the curve" so that healthcare isn't overwhelmed? Or is the point to have as few people get it as possible until a vaccine? Or is there something else?
I do remember Dr. Milton saying he was very conservative when it came to avoiding getting infected with COVID as his father is 102 (and I think taking care of his wife); Dr. Milton said he did not want to do anything that would put him (and thus his father whom he visits) at increased risk. For example, he said he would not fly; said he worked on aircraft systems 20 years ago or so and was not impressed with their interior airflow system design. The other two doctors in the program said they would fly.
I agree with you 100%. However, the argument against that I get from my California relatives would be that you going on a long hike does not endanger others. And even if it does to a small degree, it does not endanger them exponentially. We know how many deaths occur from car accidents or motorcycles. Those are fairly static. And when you have such an accident you only affect X number of people. Your accident doesn't grow exponentially into more people having accidents. And when you go to the hospital for your accident you do not cause the staff and patients to have auto accidents by your mere presence.WiseOne wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:10 pmTo me, this isn't the right question to ask. The right question is "what is the risk of a serious adverse event, and how does it compare with risks I've already decided to tolerate as a matter of routine?Mountaineer wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:32 pmI don't recall that being discussed.Xan wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:05 pmMountaineer, does he have any opinion on the overall strategy? In other words, is everyone destined to get this and the point of these mitigations is to "flatten the curve" so that healthcare isn't overwhelmed? Or is the point to have as few people get it as possible until a vaccine? Or is there something else?
I do remember Dr. Milton saying he was very conservative when it came to avoiding getting infected with COVID as his father is 102 (and I think taking care of his wife); Dr. Milton said he did not want to do anything that would put him (and thus his father whom he visits) at increased risk. For example, he said he would not fly; said he worked on aircraft systems 20 years ago or so and was not impressed with their interior airflow system design. The other two doctors in the program said they would fly.
Compare the risk of having a serious health consequence of COVID to the risk of serious events for things you do without a second thought.
Downhill skiing for ONE day: 0.09% (based on a Norwegian study)
Risk of an accident if you take a single 30 mile trip by car: 0.02%.
Risk of dying in a car crash, per year: 0.01%
And there are plenty more risky behaviors that you guys are welcome to look up if you like:
Owning a swimming pool
Riding a motorcycle
Going windsurfing
Going on a long hike
Going rock climbing
In other words....at what point does this pursuit of absolute safety no longer make any sense? Sure, when COVID is raging around you it would make sense to hole up for a few weeks. I have certainly wished I could do that during the height of flu season every year. But I'm still subject to considerable personal constraints, in a city of 8 million residents in which the # of daily new COVID hospitalizations is in the single digits. Not sure I subscribe to Maddy's interpretation, but she is not the only one who thinks there are reasons other than health for these lockdowns.
This post really had me thinking...doodle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:58 pmTypical KarenMaddy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:09 pmWell, for one, I read the governor's order. It laid out a number of exemptions, and I went to work doing what 30 years of legal work taught me to do. I figured out how those exemptions applied to me. I carry a copy of the governor's order delineating the exemptions (you'd be surprised how many store employees and managers have never read it) and a summary of the ADA and the parallel state statute laying out the penalties for noncompliance. They start at $75,000 for the first offense.
I have a number of friends who, by reason of panic attacks, tachycardia, asthma, migraines, moisture-induced acne, actinic keratoses, and plain ol' difficulty breathing have all successfully claimed medical exemptions at the front door. Under the ADA, a store is not permitted to demand documentation or to even ask what the nature of their medical condition is. Not that the Black Shirt monitoring the door at Walmart would have a clue what most of them are, anyway.
Actually, I was turned away once at a hardware store, where the manager refused to recognize my medical exemption. It was about 8:00 in the morning, and by a little after 9, the manager had reversed his stance after I phoned the corporate office and threatened to sue. I had one employee in tears. Okay, I went a little far, and I do feel a little bad about that.
One of these days I'll probably get tired of going through all this sturm und drang, at which point I might try doing what the more creative shoppers at Walmart are doing: https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-07-18- ... appen.html
So you are the judge of what is pro-community or pro-self?ahhrunforthehills wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:30 pm
Coronavirus seems to really have brought the issue to the forefront between those that are community-centric and those that are self-centic in a way that the old Republican vs Democrat never could. A mask is a small inconvenience for 99.9% of people and is therefore an excellent form of measurement on how community-centric you are. No mask, you fail the test. Time to crucify.
Anyone who has ever studied human behavior knows how powerful the opinion of others are on an emotional level. During hunter/gatherer periods, if you willfully endangered your community you would be cast out (which was basically a death sentence). It makes sense that, as a matter of survival, people get REALLY angry when they see the survival of the community being threatened by those that put their own wants first (regardless of the logic that they tell themselves).
No other details matter. Studies don't matter. Either you are pro-community or pro-self. Mask or no mask.
shheesh, that is what you got out of it?Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:39 pmSo you are the judge of what is pro-community or pro-self?ahhrunforthehills wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:30 pm
Coronavirus seems to really have brought the issue to the forefront between those that are community-centric and those that are self-centic in a way that the old Republican vs Democrat never could. A mask is a small inconvenience for 99.9% of people and is therefore an excellent form of measurement on how community-centric you are. No mask, you fail the test. Time to crucify.
Anyone who has ever studied human behavior knows how powerful the opinion of others are on an emotional level. During hunter/gatherer periods, if you willfully endangered your community you would be cast out (which was basically a death sentence). It makes sense that, as a matter of survival, people get REALLY angry when they see the survival of the community being threatened by those that put their own wants first (regardless of the logic that they tell themselves).
No other details matter. Studies don't matter. Either you are pro-community or pro-self. Mask or no mask.
It must be great to be the king.
But as a humble commoner, I beg your leave to inquire exactly which king you are.
Napoleon, perhaps?