Help Find Pro-Gun, Low Property Tax Regi

[Kriegsspiel]

Tennessee is modified no-income tax (6% on interest/dividends), but will get rid of that by 2021, but they're also a low property tax state the last time I looked into it (I was thinking about moving there a few years ago). Seemed very cheap everywhere except Nashville (I was looking in the eastern third). It consistently ranks high on the Freedom In The 50 States criteria.

Utah seems cool, I kinda wish I had put down roots there after I got out of the military. I don't think it's very inexpensive to live there, though.

[vnatale]

Tennessee is modified no-income tax (6% on interest/dividends), but will get rid of that by 2021, but they're also a low property tax state the last time I looked into it (I was thinking about moving there a few years ago). Seemed very cheap everywhere except Nashville (I was looking in the eastern third). It consistently ranks high on the Freedom In The 50 States criteria.

Utah seems cool, I kinda wish I had put down roots there after I got out of the military. I don't think it's very inexpensive to live there, though.

Would it surprise you that Utah has a HIGH opioid abuse problem? It did me! It seems like the Mormon individual perfection model (which, of course, everyone fails) has resulted in many Mormons seeking emotional relief via opioids.

Vinny

[CT-Scott]

I had to Google "low SES".

I don't think I saw Colorado mentioned in your post. I haven't been there myself, but my wife loved the area when she had to travel there for work a while back.

[vnatale]

I had to Google "low SES".

I don't think I saw Colorado mentioned in your post. I haven't been there myself, but my wife loved the area when she had to travel there for work a while back.

Likewise. I had to Bing "SES". I thought that somehow I'd missed its definition early on in the long post and I was not sufficiently motivated to go back through it to see if it had been prior defined.

Vinny

[Mark Leavy]

Traveling through Arizona and Utah over the last few weeks...
Tucson seemed like it might meet some of your criteria.
Small town Utah is pretty nice, but I wouldn't want to live here full time if not a Mormon. For a short timer, it's excellent. On the surface, it's nothing but happy god-fearing, red-blooded Americans living in harmony in a beautiful environment. I'm trying not to peek below the surface.

Best wishes. I'd be interested in hearing what you end up with.

[vnatale]

Traveling through Arizona and Utah over the last few weeks...
Tucson seemed like it might meet some of your criteria.
Small town Utah is pretty nice, but I wouldn't want to live here full time if not a Mormon. For a short timer, it's excellent. On the surface, it's nothing but happy god-fearing, red-blooded Americans living in harmony in a beautiful environment. I'm trying not to peek below the surface.

Best wishes. I'd be interested in hearing what you end up with.

I was on this cross-country trip of the country for the entire month of July 1981. From Rhode Island, we ended up in Niagara Falls the first night. In Chicago for July 4th. Through Utah, Colorado. Started somewhere northern California and came down through the coast. Then onward to Texas and Louisiana. By the time we hit Alabama on July 27th I could not take it any longer being on that bus and decided to fly home. It was my first plane trip ever and to show how anxious I was to leave four more days of travel on that bus, I paid over $250 for a one way ticket from Alabama to Rhode Island. That could be close to $1,000 today?

Anyway, after that entire trip I said that the only two places I'd want to go back to were: 1) San Francisco - because of all the great live music available 2) Salt Lake City - It was beautiful there and the streets were so wide and clean and unlike every other city whose streets I'd walked during that trip, I felt totally safe walking the streets of Salt Lake City. One thing that did surprise me though was that in the one night we were in Salt Lake City I found a rock club that shocked me that they served alcohol while also having a truly exceptional rock band playing that night.

However, once I driving my car home and within a few miles from the then trailer I lived in then and was on my street where it was basically nothing but trees on either side leading up to that trailer, I told myself that while I'd seen a lot of nice looking places all over the country, I'd not seen any better than where I was then living. My present house is about five miles from where that trailer used to be.

I don't think were I live fits the criteria listed.

Vinny

[flyingpylon]

I’ve spent time in Indianapolis and Carmel and Fishers suburbs seem nice. Prices on Zillow are reasonable. Property taxes are a bit high but not crazy.

I've been living in Fishers, IN for the last 22 years. It's not bad, has advantages and disadvantages like all places. Property taxes are capped at 1% of assessed value, plus whatever is added by local referendums, etc. (those currently add .2%). My chief complaints are that Central Indiana is flat, not visually stimulating at all, and winters are too cold. But I also realize that if those are the chief complaints, that's not too bad.

If you really have a libertarian streak you might consider areas just outside the suburbs that immediately surround Indianapolis. The suburbs are all growing rapidly and turning into cities of their own. The population of Fishers has tripled since I've lived here to over 90k and it has changed dramatically in that time. Along with that come various rules and regulations.

The Indianapolis airport is great, only about 10 years old, easy to get to, and wins awards every year.

We appear to have different situations and priorities (I have a family and I'm workin' for The Man, lol) but I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have, just shoot me a DM.

[WiseOne]

I think he means low SES getting generous welfare entitlements that the higher SES population must pay for. As Harry Browne pointed out, a low SES population living within its means can be a net contribution to society.

I'd say the city & state I live in is ruled out. Try New Hampshire? I wouldn't mind ending up there myself. I know people who have retired there, living in a house on a lake, and they love it. Much more comfortable in the summer than the sticky heat farther south, too. If you don't mind cold snowy winters of course.

[vnatale]

I think he means low SES getting generous welfare entitlements that the higher SES population must pay for. As Harry Browne pointed out, a low SES population living within its means can be a net contribution to society.

I'd say the city & state I live in is ruled out. Try New Hampshire? I wouldn't mind ending up there myself. I know people who have retired there, living in a house on a lake, and they love it. Much more comfortable in the summer than the sticky heat farther south, too. If you don't mind cold snowy winters of course.

New Hampshire. 1/2 hour from me. "Live Free or Die"

No sales taxes but high, high property taxes from what I've been told. Gun owners loved to live there. Where I am in Massachusetts is cold enough for me without going north for more cold / less heat.

Vinny

[vnatale]

I think he means low SES getting generous welfare entitlements that the higher SES population must pay for. As Harry Browne pointed out, a low SES population living within its means can be a net contribution to society.

I'd say the city & state I live in is ruled out. Try New Hampshire? I wouldn't mind ending up there myself. I know people who have retired there, living in a house on a lake, and they love it. Much more comfortable in the summer than the sticky heat farther south, too. If you don't mind cold snowy winters of course.

New Hampshire. 1/2 hour from me. "Live Free or Die"

No sales taxes but high, high property taxes from what I've been told. Gun owners loved to live there. Where I am in Massachusetts is cold enough for me without going north for more cold / less heat.

Vinny

Looks like the facts bear out what I just wrote above:

http://www.tax-rates.org/new_hampshire/property-tax

"The median property tax in New Hampshire is $4,636.00 per year for a home worth the median value of $249,700.00. Counties in New Hampshire collect an average of 1.86% of a property's assesed fair market value as property tax per year.
New Hampshire has one of the highest average property tax rates in the country, with only two states levying higher property taxes.
New Hampshire's median income is $73,159 per year, so the median yearly property tax paid by New Hampshire residents amounts to approximately % of their yearly income. New Hampshire is ranked 2nd of the 50 states for property taxes as a percentage of median income.
The exact property tax levied depends on the county in New Hampshire the property is located in. Rockingham County collects the highest property tax in New Hampshire, levying an average of $5,344.00 (1.74% of median home value) yearly in property taxes, while Carroll County has the lowest property tax in the state, collecting an average tax of $2,582.00 (1.07% of median home value) per year."

Vinny

[Mark Leavy]

Las Vegas
Salt Lake City
Indianapolis
Denver
Portland


Those are the ones that catch my eye.

Vegas is right up there. I will frequently hole up in vegas for a month or more when I just need to lay low and work on something. Extremely well connected to the rest of the USA with cheap flights. For international, you can hop over to LAX. The weather is great all year round and as long as you stay out of North Las Vegas you can pretty much pick the kind of neighborhood you want. Property was well priced last I checked (but it has been a few years). And you can't do much better than Nevada (and especially Vegas) for individual rights. The completely corrupt politicians are dismal and pandering - but the state constitution, corporate and business laws are fairly libertarian. Gambling subsidizes a lot of the taxes - so less than 1% on property taxes and no state income tax.

And it goes without saying, very gun and gold and cash friendly. It's the only town in the USA where no one blinks an eye if you pull a wad of hundreds out of your pocket to pay your bill.

[vnatale]

I think he means low SES getting generous welfare entitlements that the higher SES population must pay for. As Harry Browne pointed out, a low SES population living within its means can be a net contribution to society.

I'd say the city & state I live in is ruled out. Try New Hampshire? I wouldn't mind ending up there myself. I know people who have retired there, living in a house on a lake, and they love it. Much more comfortable in the summer than the sticky heat farther south, too. If you don't mind cold snowy winters of course.

New Hampshire. 1/2 hour from me. "Live Free or Die"

No sales taxes but high, high property taxes from what I've been told. Gun owners loved to live there. Where I am in Massachusetts is cold enough for me without going north for more cold / less heat.

Vinny

Looks like the facts bear out what I just wrote above:

http://www.tax-rates.org/new_hampshire/property-tax

"The median property tax in New Hampshire is $4,636.00 per year for a home worth the median value of $249,700.00. Counties in New Hampshire collect an average of 1.86% of a property's assesed fair market value as property tax per year.
New Hampshire has one of the highest average property tax rates in the country, with only two states levying higher property taxes.
New Hampshire's median income is $73,159 per year, so the median yearly property tax paid by New Hampshire residents amounts to approximately % of their yearly income. New Hampshire is ranked 2nd of the 50 states for property taxes as a percentage of median income.
The exact property tax levied depends on the county in New Hampshire the property is located in. Rockingham County collects the highest property tax in New Hampshire, levying an average of $5,344.00 (1.74% of median home value) yearly in property taxes, while Carroll County has the lowest property tax in the state, collecting an average tax of $2,582.00 (1.07% of median home value) per year."

Vinny

HAHAHAHA, don't make me laugh. My property taxes were close to $12,000 last year.

Go to that web site above and put in Illinois and then your county and it will tell you the median income for your county and other information so that you tell us what % the average tax is of median home value.

Vinny

[vnatale]

I think he means low SES getting generous welfare entitlements that the higher SES population must pay for. As Harry Browne pointed out, a low SES population living within its means can be a net contribution to society.

When I say low SES, that’s my politically correct way to say poor people. Statistically, poor people are more likely to smoke cigarettes, wafting over my backyard fence, more likely to set off fireworks at midnight, have drive by shootings for gangs and drug dealing, burglarize cars and homes, litter, leave old cars up on bricks in their front lawn, blast loud music from their cars, have barking dogs all day and night and a host of other behaviors I want no part of.

Yes all of those things can happen in upper middle class neighborhoods. But I can also die while driving a car. I still wear a seatbelt to reduce some of the risk. I want to reduce the risk of living with the problems above by putting myself as far away from poor people as possible.

It’s not the lack of money that makes them act this way. So I’m not judging people by wealth level, I’m judging by action.

A lot of it is tied together, isn't it? Have money to pay $10 a day (or more) for a pack of cigarettes but too poor for what some of us would consider to be more essential, higher priorities. Then, of course, all kinds of other health problems come from both the financial investment in cigarettes and actually smoking them!

Vinny

[whatchamacallit]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... ity_Survey

I find this list is helpful.

Pick your state from there.

[CT-Scott]

Re: New Hampshire:

My wife has mentioned that state as a possible retirement destination for us. It's a little too cold and a little too "out in the boonies" for me. Great hiking/mountains, but not enough in the way of "civilization", restaurants, etc., for my liking. I'm by no means a "city person," though. Both my wife and I hate the busy-ness/dirtiness/congestion of most cities (e.g., NYC). But I'd like some semblance of civilization, restaurants, etc.

But the main reason for replying is that even though property taxes are "high" in NH (though no higher than where I am in CT), there's no income tax. So that's extremely appealing to me.

But I long to live near water. And, ideally, ocean water. So we've been planning to get our house cleaned up and ready to sell so that we can possibly move to a house closer to the shore in CT, even though CT is absolutely awful in terms of taxes. We've got high property taxes (including property taxes on cars), high income taxes, high gas taxes, taxes on *EVERYTHING*. But I grew up here and feel comfortable here, and some towns near the shoreline are really very nice.

And despite the liberal-bias in CT, it's actually gun-owner-friendly.

I also would be open to moving farther down South (near the shore), but I have no real experience with how those areas are, and my wife is strongly opposed to being in too warm a climate (even though I tell her that we could just stay inside with central A/C during the hotter months).

[ochotona]

There is tremendous variety in Texas of all kinds of landforms and environments. You can get a cheap house away from metro areas so that the taxes won't bite.

[I Shrugged]

Do you just want gun freedom, or do you want a shooting/outdoors culture? The latter is not as common as the former.
Taxes, I'll leave those for you to look up.

I don't think you'd like Tucson. It's very low income, high crime, very liberal govt, homeless, non-white etc. The airport is small and it's a long drive to PHX.
You might like Casa Grande. It's not as nice as say Chandler, it's more small town AZ which means lower income and more petty crime. But it's a friendly town with a lot of well-off snowbirds half the year. Easy to get around, stores are always close by, etc. Very close to PHX airport. If you are more of a small town guy, check it out.
You could check out Payson and places out that way, which are not too far from PHX. You'd probably really like Wickenburg or Prescott, but prices could be an issue.

Albuquerque, I'm saying no.
Las Cruces is a lot like Tucson. Not as liberal and homeless, but if you are white you will be in the minority. They fly out of El Paso.

Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, would be great for you except for airports. Maybe Boise is big enough, I don't know. Probably is.
East Texas is like the South you don't like.
Draw a triangle with the corners being Abilene, Ft Worth, and Austin. Put your finger in the middle of the triangle and you'll be in good country. Maybe too far from DFW? Depends where.

Central Florida, for example Winter Haven area, is not expensive, and is close to MCO and other airports too.

Indiana, you know about. NW Indiana is not far from Chicago Midway airport, which is a big Southwest hub. Costs are quite reasonable. You won't get "Chicago crime".

Oklahoma, Missouri, Arkansas. Here you get the outdoor culture, hillbillies, blue collar, low costs, etc. Airports are probably as good as Indy. OK is a funny state, I don't care for it. It just seems gritty and unhappy. Actually I'd not like to live in any of these three, but I don't know your personality. They certainly don't attract well educated liberals, lol.

[I Shrugged]

To which I'll add, you want higher income people but not liberals. This narrows it down a LOT. That's like a unicorn.
I honestly think you should look at a nice suburb or exurb of Houston or Dallas. I understand the property tax thing though.

Check out Wickenburg.
And maybe some nice part of Boise.

That's the short list.

[Mark Leavy]

To which I'll add, you want higher income people but not liberals. This narrows it down a LOT. That's like a unicorn.
I honestly think you should look at a nice suburb or exurb of Houston or Dallas. I understand the property tax thing though.

Check out Wickenburg.
And maybe some nice part of Boise.

That's the short list.

This is a great list. I'm keeping it for reference for myself. And I second your opinion of Boise. I stayed there for the first time last year and I felt I had fallen into Mayberry USA. Extremely well maintained downtown, plenty of parks, no graffiti or homeless. Delightful in every way.

[WiseOne]

Go to that web site above and put in Illinois and then your county and it will tell you the median income for your county and other information so that you tell us what % the average tax is of median home value.

Vinny

That site is BS. It estimates I should be paying half of what I do. Except most people around here pay more than I do for a similar size house.

Yeah, seriously. I would LOVE to be paying just $4.4K per year in property taxes, and NYC is relatively low tax compared to the surrounding suburbs. Across the river in NJ, property taxes are $10K...MINIMUM, and they could care less what your income is. In Westchester, you won't get away with less than $20K, and it goes as high as $40K for what you might consider to be a modest house.

The problem is that there are two parts to the property tax equation. One is the percentage rate. The other is tax assessed value, which is often unrelated to a home's sale price or appraised value. Basically, cities can do anything they want by monkeying with tax assessed value; conversely, a high tax rate doesn't mean squat if tax assessed values are kept low. That's how Bill deBlasio has been making property taxes skyrocket over the past several years, while claiming that taxes have not changed because the rate has remained fixed. He somehow thinks he's fooling everyone with that, and that we'll somehow forget that the $4,000 tax bill from 2-3 years ago is now a $6,000 tax bill.

[Tyler]

I honestly think you should look at a nice suburb or exurb of Houston or Dallas. I understand the property tax thing though.

+1. Property taxes are high, but you'll also be able to find a house closer to the bottom of your range than the top. So in absolute dollars it may balance out even before you account for the lack of a state tax.

One city always near the top of my list is Colorado Springs. It's a beautiful area with low property taxes. And while I don't know about the gun culture specifically, I do know that it's a relatively conservative city overall.