Trump as tragicomedy

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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:59 pm

Xan wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:35 pm
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:19 pm
ochotona wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:50 pm
Not insurance... but we need human life cycle health care financing for women and men coupled with highly competitive reverse auction features! Call it what you want, that is what we need
Like, unlimited financing? Do we keep throwing money at people until the end of their life cycle, or do we need death panels to let us know when to stop throwing good money after bad. How much is a human life worth, anyway, and are they all worth the same?
Also, why do we not have this financing for, say, food? Housing? Why not everything!
I am with you 100% on this one.

Vinny
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:01 am

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:52 am
Desert wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:57 am
MangoMan wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:36 am
Desert wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:22 am
I'm not crazy about the ACA either, but it's irresponsible to simply kill it without any substitute in mind. I think it's time to end the private health insurance system in our country and go to single payer. The present system with insurance companies and government both involved brings the worst of both worlds, unfortunately. But as long as insurance companies are raking in the profits, it will be politically difficult to change the system.
You want to give the government more control over health care?! Because they've proven in the past how everything they do becomes less expensive and more efficient? There has to be a better way than the current, but I'm pretty sure making the govt the CEO is not the answer. If you don't believe me, ask one of our Canadian members.
I'm not excited about it, but I think single payer healthcare is the only practical option. I don't like government control of the military budget either, but there isn't another practical way to manage something so massive. If there is some practical private option available, I'd change my mind immediately, however.

Regarding Canada, I think their system is far superior to ours, just looking at outcomes and spending per person.
Outcomes and per capita spending is only one measure. What about the people who are diagnosed with X, and have to wait 2 years to see a specialist. Apparently somewhat common in Canada. So are you willing to have that scenario in the event you or a family member gets X?

Be careful what you wish for.
Didn't I read recently here in another Topic the answer from one of our resident Canadians? That they operate on a triage basis? If the condition is such that you can wait, you wait. If it's it cannot wait, then you get moved to the head of the line? Smith1776 can tell us for certain.

Vinny
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:04 am

D1984 wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:16 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:57 pm
Xan wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:00 pm
flyingpylon wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:19 am
Perhaps we should be asking why we allow the health care industry to operate like a giant cartel instead of debating the best way to pay their exorbitant prices.

Besides, I thought this thread was about Trump?
As my earlier anecdote noted, by opting out of the insurance system, you can save 90% off the sticker price, no questions asked. That sounds like a way to get around the exorbitant prices.
I grazed back... where is this anecdote? Are you really saying that you think folks can regularly offer care providers 10% of their insurance-reimbursed rates with cash and they'll accept your offer?

I think I must be misinterpreting.
I think it was back when he talked about having an elbow re-set for around $300 instead of circa $3000.

I would like to add a couple of points, though:

One, you will basically never get 90% off the price an insurer (BCBS, Medicare, etc) would pay...the 90% he got off was likely off the ridiculous "chargemaster" price which is a pie in the sky price that only the uninsured get soaked with.

Two, the plural of anecdote is not data; just because Xan got a good price as a cash-paying patient does not mean most people will; in fact, as per the chargemaster example noted above, the uninsured usually get hit with the WORST prices. The local hospital system in my city has essentially a monopoly and their charges to uninsured patients are as follows: If you make the poverty level or less, free or nominal; if you make from 100% of the FPl to 200% of FPL, prices are based on a sliding scale from almost nothing to roughly what BCBS of Georgia would pay; if you make one cent above that you pay the FULL chargemaster rate, no ifs, ands, or buts (with the singular exception that certain imaging services get 10% or 15% off the chargemaster price). oh, and even if the hospital does discount its prices due to your being poor enough, the doctors who work on you can (and generally do) still charge the full amount.

Three, every other country that has health care prices lower than ours (which is pretty much....all of them) has the government directly or indirectly negotiate prices; this is true whether the system in single provider (UK, Spain, New Zealand, plus Hong Kong as far as hospital care is concerned); single-payer (Canada, Taiwan, South Korea), or some form of private or nonprofit universal coverage (Germany, Netherlands, Japan, Israel, Switzerland, etc) or a hybrid of single-payer and private non-profit (France). Strangely enough, none of them rely on patients acting as cost-control kamikazes and trying to negotiate rates with providers themselves. They all have lower prices (see the IFHP reports if you don't believe me) as a result. Funny how that works.


All you stated above is my general understanding and my direct experience.

Vinny
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:10 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:53 am
I have gone from wanting him to drain the swamp, to voting for him, to cringing at tweets, to yelling at the TV, and finally just wanting him to go back home and let somebody else do this job. This is a non-stop reality show nightmare.

Image
He DID get impeached.....And, so far the Market has NOT crashed!

Vinny
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:14 am

MangoMan wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:51 am
Desert wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:27 am
On a happier note, I think we'll have much better candidates available to us in the next two elections. Choosing between Hillary and Trump was hopefully a low point in our country's path!
Assuming Trump isn't impeached, you are possibly looking at Trump vs Elizabeth Warren. That's even worse!
Warren is looking more and more like a long shot....

Vinny
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:20 am

stuper1 wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:49 pm
dualstow wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:11 pm
John McCain had character.
I'm curious to know what evidence you have for this statement? I can find plenty of places on the internet where people claim that McCain was a show-off pilot who never would have crashed in Vietnam if he hadn't been flying inappropriately. And that he then behaved dishonorably and disloyally in prison. That he left his first wife when he found another woman with a lot more money. That he had dishonest dealings related to the savings and loan scandal. That he was only too happy to send America to war whenever possible, thereby enriching the military-industrial complex, but causing many of our young people to come home with limbs missing or worse, not to mention far worse casualty levels among the native inhabitants. And the list goes on.

Now, I don't know whether all that stuff is true. But I also don't know whether the hagiography peddled by the mainstream media is true. I tend to think the latter is just pablum meant to keep the masses happy.
I join you in NOT being a McCain fan. Again from watching so much C-Span I saw a lot of him, including the time he'd spend mingling with voters after campaign events and hearing what he said to them. I always thought him to be Mr. Ingenuine with no principles.

Vinny
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:21 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:03 pm
I think we are long past the idea that the way Trump operates is all part of a strategy. For whatever reason the way he operates worked in the corporate world, but not so much in the political one.

Would I vote for a pimp and three hookers who could put the country back on track? No. Some level of morality and decency has to be part of the job. I would vote for someone who:

1) makes it clear that the US does not need military bases all over the world and does not need to have a military budget the size of the next 10 (or whatever) countries combined and repurposes that money and talent at home.
2) knows how to make, and live within a real balanced budget
3) figures out the whole medical care/prescription drug fiasco
4) small kids can look up to and feel good about him/her as president
5) does not make decisions based off special interest lobbying but rather what's best for the country.

among some other things. But those are the big five.

Everything has become a conservative/liberal arguing point. Nothing seems to be discussed from a what's best for America standpoint much anymore.

Stuper, your comments about McCain, I tend to echo those. I do not want to disparage the dead, and he seemed to be a decent guy, but at least some of your points are correct, esp. being too hawkish on war.


Great list of 5!

Vinny
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:30 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:28 pm
Kbg wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:08 pm
Maddy wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:59 pm
No, Moda, as I said before, I'm just not interested in engaging you. You've done this "Show me your sources" routine so many times that by now the script has become predictable. No matter what my source, you'll find some reason for rejecting it, and when confronted with evidence you cannot deny, you'll simply move to a new and different reason for deprecating the thesis. And I'll have wasted precious hours throwing evidence at you that you're predisposed to reject. Yesterday, your comeback was that the connection between Soros and Antifa is solely in the imagination of Alex Jones. If I showed you the 990 from AGJ or OSI, you'd simply come up with some other reason to reject my point. Maybe it would be that the relationship between Soros and AGJ is too attenuated, or that a handful of Republicans have provided funding to similar organizations, or that Antifa is not representative of the Left. I'm just not interested in going through this again. You've simply lost your credibility with me at this point.

LOL! Busted!

This is why I rarely indulge in this stuff (I really have to be bored). There are very few people in today's world (it seems) that care to alter their opinions.
I definitely change my opinions over time!

2008, sick of Bush and war and wanted hope and change, voted for Obama over warmongering McCain.
2014, sick of Quinn as governor, voted Rauner
2016 sick of hope and change and not wanting war mongering Clinton, and the Clinton name, I voted Trump
2018, I regret greatly that I voted for Trump, but the other choice wasn't any better, so I fault the parties for letting these two get to the final round.
2018, hopeful the dems take the house, just to see Trump's head explode.
2018 hopeful Rauner gets destroyed in the election
2015-2017, listened to Rush on my drive home for lunch
2018, listen to Thom Hartmann most drives

About every 4 years or so I flip....!
2020! As of today, who gets your November 2020 votes?

You may be one of those rare "undecided's" who both parties spend SO much money to get YOUR vote!



Vinny
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:43 am

stuper1 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:30 am
I support some of the same policies as Trump, such as the absolutely incredible idea that the American president should actually put the interests of the American people first, as opposed to people from other countries.

As a bonus, I said to anybody who would listen long before the election that I hoped Trump would win because it would be much more entertaining if he did.


CANNOT deny the entertainment factor! I've many times stated that if 10 years ago someone had written a fiction book which had all the exact details of the Trump campaign / presidency to date that no one would have published it because it would have been 100% rejected on the basis of it just being TOO unbelievable!

Vinny
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:47 am

Xan wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:23 pm
If anything (and I think the whole analogy is a stretch), Trump is more like one of the pagan kings who in some way advanced God's plan, but were not themselves among God's people. Cyrus the Great, perhaps.
"People are so shocked when they find ... out I am Protestant. I am Presbyterian. And I go to church and I love God and I love my church," he said.
Sounds okay so far. He's claiming to be a Christian and I have no reason not to take him at his word.

Moderator Frank Luntz asked Trump whether he has ever asked God for forgiveness for his actions.

"I am not sure I have. I just go on and try to do a better job from there. I don't think so," he said. "I think if I do something wrong, I think, I just try and make it right. I don't bring God into that picture. I don't."
hmm.

"I like to be good. I don't like to have to ask for forgiveness. And I am good. I don't do a lot of things that are bad. I try to do nothing that is bad."
"Why do I have to repent or ask for forgiveness, if I am not making mistakes?" asked Trump. "I work hard, I'm an honorable person."
This all sounds like he doesn't even know what a Christian is, let alone that he is one. Also, either the outlook or the cathechesis (or, likely, both) of whatever Presbyterian church we're talking about is absolutely terrible.

Contrast that with David, who said:
Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
David knows what evil lurks in the heart of men. (He's like The Shadow that way.) Trying to do better doesn't do it. We need a new one from outside.

Of course, David had to have his violations of God's law thrown in his face to reach this point. What we would call good Law preaching, I suppose. That could still happen for Trump, but hasn't (yet), it would seem.


Sources:
https://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics ... index.html
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-o ... ess-2016-1
https://www.christianpost.com/news/trum ... eo-141856/
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=KJV


Edit: I should point out that I don't think it's necessary for POTUS to be a Christian.

Excellent support to your lead off statement...

Vinny
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:50 am

Xan wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:01 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:08 am
Xan,

What of God's plans do you think he's advancing that are most important to you? I actually find this take pretty honest and refreshing... My priorities might be different, but I can understand the idea of voting for a relative "slimeball" if they can reliably advance an agenda that's important enough to me.
Well I really have no idea what God's plans are, and I so I have no idea whether Trump is advancing them. Romans tells us that all authorities are put in place by God, and also that all things work together for the ultimate good of the elect, so to that extent, he's advancing God's plans, but in exactly the sort of way that Hillary would have.

Over the past several years I've gotten a lot less certain about exactly what the "right" way is to arrange society, largely thanks to you, Moda, and (begrudgingly) to Kshartle. I have my preferences (which are largely unchanged), but I no longer confuse them with the One and Only Way Things Should Be. As a result I take the political arena much less personally, which is only good for my health and well-being, and I try to find my identity in Christ (that is, whatever God says about me must certainly be true) and not in some political affiliation, which frees me to stop worrying about the things that will pass away, and instead to (try to) care about all my neighbors as people.

What I was trying to say earlier was not that Trump is a Cyrus, only that that's his ceiling: at BEST he's Cyrus and not David.

I think a lot of Christians support Trump for one or more of the following reasons:
* [sadly] They, like him, have a terribly broken view of what a Christian is.
* He promised to nominate to the Supreme Court people "like Scalia" which could ultimately overturn Roe v Wade. This one would put him in the Cyrus category for many. I don't think the recent addition to the Court is enough, but if he were to also replace Ginsburg and possibly even Breyer, things could get interesting. Moda, you should see that Collins speech where she talks about Kavanaugh's strong belief in stare decisis.
* He doesn't see straight white male Christians as the cause of all the world's problems. This could also be Cyrus-y.


EDIT: chopped out some other discussion for replying in the other thread.
Thanks for this. Have utmost respect for you in what you describe regarding yourself in the third paragraph.

Vinny
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:00 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:49 am
flyingpylon wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:39 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:16 am
I read Bob Woodward's book Fear, and assuming his sources and details are accurate...
It might be worth reading some critical reviews of Fear and Woodward's other books for additional input, if you haven't already.
I will. And I assume it will dispute a lot of the accounts. The problem is, you can easily imagine that's the state of the White House given how he acts in public and on Twitter.

On the way Trump operates -- I have had 13 different jobs in almost 30 years of working. I have worked at companies where the owner/CEO/manager was a tyrant, a bigot, a narcissist, a back stabber, and a few where they were genuinely good people and motivators. Sure you can lead with a stick, but I have always performed my best when I had respect for my manager and/or the CEO vs. hating/fearing them.

13 jobs in 30 years!!! Were several of those jobs with some of the same companies? Or, also 13 different employers?!!

In the last 41 years I've been employed I've only had five employers (one of them was for only one year with all the others being fairly long-termed).

VInny
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:05 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:29 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:39 pm
Then what are the tweets meant to do, seriously, other than piss off approximately 50% of the nation and endear him to his base? There is no attempt to unify. There seems to be little attempt to reach bipartisan agreements. Not all Trump, for sure, but he exacerbates it.

Just imagine if he spent a few days tweeting crap about medical monopolies and it's time to break them up and reduce costs.

I'll hand it to him currently, getting out of Syria seems to have pissed a lot of people off, but I agree with that.

He has such a grasp of tweeting to incite and cause people to love him or have their heads explode that I wish it was put to better use.

If the environment is not as the media portrays, why do you have Cohen's comments, Tillerson's comments, Mattis with his letter, his berating of Sessions and such happening?

If he stopped the tweeting, 75% of the negative news bias goes away. Nearly every story in recent memory, negative on Trump, always starts with a "And this is what President Trump tweeted early this morning...."
Yes, the tweets intentionally make the lamestream media's heads explode on a regular basis.
And they get the base fired up.

As for the rest of your questions:

Cohen is a crappy lawyer who has been involved in some shady business that probably shouldn't be illegal but is, thanks to the web of regulations around everyone, especially in NY. He is trying to throw Trump under the bus to avoid going to prison for the rest of his life.

Tillerson's reported comments may or may not be accurately reported.

Mattis is a war hawk and doesn't want the US to pull out of our overseas morasses.

Sessions was a seditious pile of crap who did his best to sabotage Trump in every way.

As for me, I can't think of a President in my lifetime who has been better than Trump overall.
Regarding your comments of Cohen / Tillerson / Mattis / Sessions? What do they all have in common? One person put them in their positions. Therefore what does that say about that person's judgement?

I assume you have hired / fired people? I have done both? And, I think my batting average is much higher than Trump's in this area.

Vinny
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:06 am

dualstow wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:31 am
Too bad Trump’s charity went under. I was just going to donate my life savings.

Dualstow!!!!

Vinny
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:13 am

Kbg wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:55 am
jacksonM wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:19 am
moda0306 wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:55 pm
That said I'm happy to see the wars ending and the criminal justice reform bill that was passed. I thought when the market tanked he'd be cranking up wars... not winding them down. Kudos to him for that.
If Trump succeeds in taking on the Military Industrial Complex and transforming what Pat Buchanan calls "The War Party" into a party committed to non-interventionism that would be no small feat, would it not?

Now, pray tell, who is going to do that for the Democratic party? They have been showing their true colors as just another branch of the The War Party since Trump announced the policy of middle east withdrawal.
As a near lifetime member of the military industrial complex, we need to bring back the draft. I think the vast majority of American's could care less about foreign policy and foreign wars unless it affects them personally. The whole thing has been "outsourced" to the all volunteer military and has created a disengaged citizenry when it comes to this stuff who will not check their government's stupidity. It wasn't always like this (but then again the Legislative Branch wasn't always like this either.). I am beyond baffled why anyone thinks it's a good idea to be in Afghanistan 18 and the Iraqish area 15 years later.
Of course when we did have the draft we had those in the military who just wanted to do their mandated time and then get out.

Since then we've had a "professional" military.

Is it possible for you to describe the demographics of our military as you see it?

From my limited knowledge I'd say that the current military must be superior in that it has those who actually want to be in it and would presumably have greater motivation to perform so as to be promoted. On the other hand, there will be those who have no other way to get a job or want to be in for just limited amount of time so as to get the benefits (e.g., paid college). Not criticizing either of those two groups but they are not really viewing the military as a profession.

Vinny
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:16 am

stuper1 wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:34 pm
For anyone who thinks that Trump is wrong to label the mainstream media as fake news, can you please explain their current coverage of his conversation with a child about Santa Claus?

First of all, who cares? Second of all, now it's news when somebody tells another person the truth? It's really quite rich when you think about it. You certainly won't hear much of the truth from the mainstream media.

Just one more small example of exactly what he rightly describes as fake news.

And yet people are saying, apparently with straight faces, that he is threatening our First Amendment rights by using this type of language. Guess what? The president also has a first amendment right. The voters will get to choose which version of reality they believe more. If I were a voting man, which I'm not, I know which version I would choose. Frankly, for the first time in 34 years, I'm tempted to register to vote for Trump in 2020, just because I'm so tired of reading all the propaganda against him.


This the second time tonight that I've read that you are not a voting man. The first time I thought it was because you did not live in this country. But now after reading all this support you have for Trump it seems strange that you are NOT a voting man. Do you wish to reveal why you have not been a voting man?

Vinny
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:35 am

MangoMan wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:48 pm
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:34 pm
That's a real "let them eat cake" sentiment.
Yes, it is, and he should keep his trap shut if he can't say something less trite.

But I have a really hard time generating any sympathy for the furloughed workers, as
1. they should have some cash put aside for just such an emergency, especially knowing that these shutdowns occur with some frequency, and
2. they are basically getting a free, paid vacation as the back pay will eventually be provided, without ever having to do the work.
Where can I get that deal?


At the time (and still now) I shared your beliefs regarding #'s 1 & 2.

Vinny
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:39 am

Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:43 am
Getting back to the thread title, I came across this little diddy and thought some of you might find it enjoyable, funny, disgusting, or a bunch of crap. Pick your own descriptor.

Like many citizens, I've wondered and tried hard to understand why Trump has such a remarkable following. (It's obvious why he probably should not!) Then a friend sent me this raccoon story. It makes no difference about your political leanings, this is just a good explanation of 'WHY?' If you really want to know how the majority of people feel.
....................................
You've been on vacation for two weeks, you come home, and your basement is infested with raccoons. Hundreds of rabid, messy, mean raccoons have overtaken your basement. You want them gone immediately. You call the city, 4 different exterminators, but nobody can handle the job But there is this one guy and he guarantees you to get rid of them, so you hire him. You don't care if the guy smells, you don't care if the guy swears, you don't care if he's an alcoholic, you don't care how many times he's been married, you don't care if he has a plumber's crack, you simply want those raccoons gone! You want your problem fixed! He's the guy. He's the best. Period !

Here's why we want Trump, yes he's a bit of an ass, yes he's an egomaniac, but we don't care. The country is a mess because politicians suck, the Republicans and Democrats can be two-faced & gutless, and illegals are everywhere. We want it all fixed! We don't care that Trump is crude, we don't care that he insults people, we don't care that he has changed positions, we don't care that he's been married 3 times, we don't care that he fights with Megyn Kelly and Rosie O'Donnell, we don't care that he doesn't know the name of some Muslim terrorist. This country is weak, bankrupt, our enemies are making fun of us, we are being invaded by illegals, we are becoming a nation of victims where every Tom, Ricardo, and Hasid is a special group with special rights to a point where we don't even recognize the country we were born and raised in; "AND WE JUST WANT IT FIXED" and Trump is the only guy who seems to understand what the people want.

We're sick of politicians, sick of the Democratic Party, Republican Party, and sick of illegals. We just want this thing fixed. Trump may not be a saint, but he doesn't have lobbyist money holding him, he doesn't have political correctness restraining him, all you know is that he has been very successful, a good negotiator, he has built a lot of things, and he's also not a politician, he's not a cowardly politician. And he says he'll fix it, and we believe him because he is too much of an egotist to be proven wrong or looked at and called a liar. Also, we don't care if the guy has bad hair. We just want those raccoons gone, out of our house, NOW.

You are welcome to pass this on. I feel this is why thousands of people who haven't voted in 25 years are getting involved. The raccoons have got to go.

I find it that if anyone believes the above then that person votes for Trump. However, there is much to dispute in all that it alleges. And, again, reasonable people will differ on what is true in it and what is not. The Trump voter probably agrees with every word of it.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:45 am

stuper1 wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:53 pm
Continuing in that vein, and since this thread is about Trump, I read in someone's post above that Trump is hateful.

Could someone please list one or more actions that Trump has taken as president that demonstrate his hatefulness?

I realize that words can be considered as actions, especially if they are meant to incite action by someone else. But for the purposes of this exercise, I would prefer examples that are not just words but are actual action-actions (mainly because I don't trust that the words as reported to the public by the media have not been twisted).
You can judge for yourself by:

1) Going to his Twitter account and reading what he has tweeted. I've heard that he has become quite the prolific tweeter in recent days.

2) Go here and watch as many of his rallies as you'd like. I've seen many of them. Sometimes repeatedly.

https://www.c-span.org/search/?searchty ... rump+rally

Nothing anyone says here (or, probably anyone else) will convince you he demonstrates hatefulness.

Only you can decide that for yourself. If nothing in 1) or 2) convinces you then, in your worldview, he does NOT demonstrate hatefulness. 1) and 2) go right to the source and cut out anything from that DEMON known as the Mainstream Media.

Vinny

Vinny
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:50 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:43 pm
When he did his sing song of this:

"We will have a national emergency, and we will then be sued, and they will sue us in the 9th Circuit, even though it shouldn't be there, and we will possibly get a bad ruling, and then we'll get another bad ruling, and then we'll end up in the Supreme Court, and hopefully we'll get a fair shake and we'll win in the Supreme Court."

I thought: God damn. The president of the United States is up there like a valley girl.

He is so contradictory in virtually every sentence he utters it is mind boggling.

"No, no, I use many stats. I use many stats."

Pretty sure he would never make it as an engineer or any kind of analyst.

Back to my questions a few days ago of:

1) You'd like your daughter to marry him
2) You'd like to be his coworker (NOT him being your boss)
3) You'd hire him to be the president of which you are 100% owner

And, I fully believe that running this country HAS to be the most complicated / complex job of any other job in the country.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:53 am

stuper1 wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:04 pm
boglerdude wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:26 am
"Meanwhile American culture continues to disappear. Big business wants the money and couldn't care less about culture."

As a stockholder you are big business. And what is "culture." We want immigrants who will increase GDP and not drain it, maybe instead of a border wall it should be an obstacle course
What is culture? I googled it. It says culture is the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group. Are you saying that you don't believe that is actually a real thing? Do you enjoy traveling? When you go to China is it the same as going to Zimbabwe? Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Personally, I think it's a good thing. It makes traveling more enjoyable.

Believe it or not, America has a culture too. Big business is ruining our culture by encouraging immigration at rates that are too high to allow the immigrants to assimilate to our culture. Instead they tend to stay in their own groups and keep too much of their own culture. Is that a good thing? I say no. If they want to keep their own culture, why don't they stay in their own country and improve it from within? But it's really not the immigrants' fault. You can't blame them for wanting to better their own standard of living. It's the fault of the powers in this country for allowing too much legal and illegal immigration.

I have no idea whether you were born in this country or how old you are. I was born in the mid-1960s. I can certainly say that the America I live in today is quite different from the one I grew up in. I don't think the changes are for the better.

After tonight reading all you've written I'm surprised to find out that you are 10-15 years YOUNGER than me!

VInny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:54 am

boglerdude wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:18 pm
> I have no idea whether you were born in this country or how old you are. I was born in the mid-1960s. I can certainly say that the America I live in today is quite different from the one I grew up in. I don't think the changes are for the better.

You're about 10 years older than me. Describe what you've personally seen and how it compares to the mass media narratives =)
And, that then makes you 20-25 years YOUNGER than me. Yet we seem to share somewhat similar worldviews.

Vinny
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by boglerdude » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:13 am

Vinny lets talk about your ADHD?
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:50 am

vnatale wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:50 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:43 pm
When he did his sing song of this:

"We will have a national emergency, and we will then be sued, and they will sue us in the 9th Circuit, even though it shouldn't be there, and we will possibly get a bad ruling, and then we'll get another bad ruling, and then we'll end up in the Supreme Court, and hopefully we'll get a fair shake and we'll win in the Supreme Court."

I thought: God damn. The president of the United States is up there like a valley girl.

He is so contradictory in virtually every sentence he utters it is mind boggling.

"No, no, I use many stats. I use many stats."

Pretty sure he would never make it as an engineer or any kind of analyst.

Back to my questions a few days ago of:

1) You'd like your daughter to marry him
2) You'd like to be his coworker (NOT him being your boss)
3) You'd hire him to be the president of which you are 100% owner

And, I fully believe that running this country HAS to be the most complicated / complex job of any other job in the country.

Vinny
Vinny, you are on fire! When I first joined this group I had thought about putting together a book of the best threads. But I immediately found that way too daunting.

You should do it. You've got the energy for it!

And for your questions, 1: Hell no. 2: Hell no. 3: I can see how this could be enticing because he is a win at any cost guy, but hell no.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:53 am

vnatale wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:00 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:49 am
flyingpylon wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:39 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:16 am
I read Bob Woodward's book Fear, and assuming his sources and details are accurate...
It might be worth reading some critical reviews of Fear and Woodward's other books for additional input, if you haven't already.
I will. And I assume it will dispute a lot of the accounts. The problem is, you can easily imagine that's the state of the White House given how he acts in public and on Twitter.

On the way Trump operates -- I have had 13 different jobs in almost 30 years of working. I have worked at companies where the owner/CEO/manager was a tyrant, a bigot, a narcissist, a back stabber, and a few where they were genuinely good people and motivators. Sure you can lead with a stick, but I have always performed my best when I had respect for my manager and/or the CEO vs. hating/fearing them.

13 jobs in 30 years!!! Were several of those jobs with some of the same companies? Or, also 13 different employers?!!

In the last 41 years I've been employed I've only had five employers (one of them was for only one year with all the others being fairly long-termed).

VInny
It is impossible to keep up with you and these embedded questions!

13 different employers. All job changes except one were due to layoffs, downsizing, outsourcing. Why I've cautioned both my daughters not to be engineers.

Although I am coming up on 14 years at the same place, with a great environment and a CEO who was an engineer, knows his stuff, and knows how the process works.
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