Impeachment failing in battleground states

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doodle
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by doodle » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:11 am

Only because they arent paying attention or just don't care about presidential abuse of power.

"I would love to send Ambassador Sondland, a really good man and great American, to testify, but unfortunately he would be testifying before a totally compromised kangaroo court, where Republican’s rights have been taken away, and true facts are not allowed out for the public...."

So what does Sondland say....there was absolutey a quid pro quo at presidents behest...US aid for political dirt on rival.

That's enough for me. Impeach
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by doodle » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:12 am

The President, Vice President and all Civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors

Seems like events also constitute bribery....
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by doodle » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:39 am

At the end of the day, its all so gross to me that I dont even care anymore. Let it all burn to the ground. I know I speak for a lot of under 40 citizens who really just don't care to vote anymore. Our democracy is a total sham.

Sondland donates a million to president Trump...becomes ambassador to E.U. ...is that not bribery?

President trump "donates" 400 million to Ukraine...gets something that he wants in return...is that not bribery?

I think I'll just continue with my plan (almost done) to go offgrid in the middle of nowhere and watch it all crumble.
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:24 am

doodle,

I think what you just stated is the issue for me with democrats right now. All this "bribery" happens all the freaking time. Lobbyists, donations, etc.

Because they despise Trump, they are trying to pin on him something each and every one of them are guilty of in some form or fashion.

I do not want Trump to win necessarily next year, but the democrats are totally blowing this in my eyes, and I am smack down the center. Since I live in IL, my vote doesn't really matter. IL will go in the D column, regardless.
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by dualstow » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:03 pm

I feel very much the same as Cortopassi above.

Pin it on Trump before he gets re-elected. That's their agenda.
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by Tyler » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:07 pm

doodle wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:12 am
Seems like events also constitute bribery....
Well apparently Democratic leadership thought better of that interpretation, as bribery is notably absent from the articles of impeachment they issued today. What a colossal waste of time.
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by boglerdude » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:21 pm

The Deep State hates Trump for valid reasons. "America First" is patriotic but it's bad for growing global GDP. Americans get paid more than they deserve to. All the Fed/academics have to do is stop printing "repo" money close to the election and falling asset prices will trigger recession. Will be fun to see what happens.
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by WiseOne » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:10 am

The biggest problem I see with the impeachment effort is that so far, it's all based on hearsay. Even some of the most impressive evidence amounted to "I heard person X say Y, and therefore I presume that Trump said Z." I would guess, along with everyone else, that the assumptions made are correct, but...don't you need some actual proof in order to convict someone?

This is sort of obvious to everyone, so you're left with the impression that the Democrats are singlemindedly following this chain of logic: "I hate Trump with a passion. Everyone hates Trump, except maybe for people who don't deserve to have an opinion. He needs to not be President any longer. We have now found something resembling an excuse to get him out of office. The ends justify the means."

Maybe they do, but this sets a terrible precedent. It amounts to a surefire method of overthrowing any election result not sanctioned by...whoever sanctions these things.
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by Maddy » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:59 am

It's worse than that, WiseOne. The charge itself has gone from one unsubstantiated allegation to another.
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by Libertarian666 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:01 am

Maddy wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:59 am
It's worse than that, WiseOne. The charge itself has gone from one unsubstantiated allegation to another.
The good news is that the Democrats are too stupid to realize how this looks to normal people.
I hope the Republicans get a 2/3rd majority in the House so they can expel the ringleaders of this coup attempt.
And I'm not really even a Republican. Or at least I wasn't until the Democrats started this cold civil war.
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by Maddy » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:02 am

boglerdude wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:21 pm
Americans get paid more than they deserve to.
What amount is it that Americans deserve to be paid?

And while we're at it, what should the earth's temperature be?
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by boglerdude » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:24 pm

Open the borders to increase supply of skilled labor. And allow more US medical and dental grads.
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by dualstow » Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:22 pm

Let's see how Merkel's experiment in Germany plays out.
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by moda0306 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:34 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:58 pm
boglerdude wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:24 pm
Open the borders to increase supply of skilled labor. And allow more US medical and dental grads.
???

Opening the borders will increase the supply of UNskilled labor and welfare recipients. You are delusional if you think otherwise.

Allowing more healthcare grads will solve nothing other than to further saturate the already over-saturated urban and suburban areas with providers who will then need to cut costs and patient time in order to survive. You know not of what you speak. I have 35 years in the industry, and increasing the output of dentists was counter-productive on all levels. Now corporate dentistry is taking over because they can use economies of scale to reduce overhead and increase profitability, but at the cost of over treatment and poor quality outcomes.

If you are going to make statements, please provide some data to back up your opinions.
Pot... meet kettle. One would think that Trumpanzees would shy away from the whole "please back up your opinions up with data" rhetoric and skip right to the non-sequiters, straw-men, and factless rambling retorts.
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by moda0306 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:46 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:03 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:34 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:58 pm
boglerdude wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:24 pm
Open the borders to increase supply of skilled labor. And allow more US medical and dental grads.
???

Opening the borders will increase the supply of UNskilled labor and welfare recipients. You are delusional if you think otherwise.

Allowing more healthcare grads will solve nothing other than to further saturate the already over-saturated urban and suburban areas with providers who will then need to cut costs and patient time in order to survive. You know not of what you speak. I have 35 years in the industry, and increasing the output of dentists was counter-productive on all levels. Now corporate dentistry is taking over because they can use economies of scale to reduce overhead and increase profitability, but at the cost of over treatment and poor quality outcomes.

If you are going to make statements, please provide some data to back up your opinions.
Pot... meet kettle. One would think that Trumpanzees would shy away from the whole "please back up your opinions up with data" rhetoric and skip right to the non-sequiters, straw-men, and factless rambling retorts.
LOL. Thanks for the ad hominem attack I've missed in your absence. And the usual 'only my sources are good' attitude. I guess working in the dental trenches for 35 years does not qualify me, in your ever so humble opinion, as an authority on the topic of the dentistry. And how exactly did this become about Trump?
Ok Boomer... Your experience in dentistry and narrative wreak of someone who is just realizing that his cartelized industry is being filled with more supply than before, therefore decreasing the ability to profit obscenely off of customers. I don't know what the "Right Amount" of dentists are, but I'm

And yeah when you use Breitbart and Prager F'king U as sources then lecture someone else to find sources when you're just using your experience in the dental industry to speak to immigration policy, then yeah I'm going to throw out an Ad Hom (though not really, as I'm not levying a judgment of your argument based on said insult).

And we are discussing immigration policy. Your support of Trump is more valid in a good jab at your inconsistency and lack of informed argumentation than your Dental experience is to the topic of immigration.
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by dualstow » Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:46 pm

Ooh, thread got spicy while I was offline doing paperwork. 🌶️ 🌶️
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by I Shrugged » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:02 pm

doodle wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:11 am
Only because they arent paying attention or just don't care about presidential abuse of power.

"I would love to send Ambassador Sondland, a really good man and great American, to testify, but unfortunately he would be testifying before a totally compromised kangaroo court, where Republican’s rights have been taken away, and true facts are not allowed out for the public...."

So what does Sondland say....there was absolutey a quid pro quo at presidents behest...US aid for political dirt on rival.

That's enough for me. Impeach
Jeez, I heard the opposite. Doodle, I think you need to broaden your coverage sources. Try these short videos of his testimony:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_c17vxrPWQ

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J19NhzlQJwA

and finally this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-DbvapybVs
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by WiseOne » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:02 am

moda0306 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:46 pm
Ok Boomer... Your experience in dentistry and narrative wreak of someone who is just realizing that his cartelized industry is being filled with more supply than before, therefore decreasing the ability to profit obscenely off of customers. I don't know what the "Right Amount" of dentists are, but I'm

And yeah when you use Breitbart and Prager F'king U as sources then lecture someone else to find sources when you're just using your experience in the dental industry to speak to immigration policy, then yeah I'm going to throw out an Ad Hom (though not really, as I'm not levying a judgment of your argument based on said insult).

And we are discussing immigration policy. Your support of Trump is more valid in a good jab at your inconsistency and lack of informed argumentation than your Dental experience is to the topic of immigration.
Jeez Moda...your lithium levels must be low.

For starters, your average dentist (or doctor) isn't doing what they do to "profit obscenely off of customers." If you really believe that, then...may I ask if you yourself accept medical and dental care from people you revile so deeply?

And, I'm still old-fashioned enough to think that convicting someone for what he might have said during a phone call is not something that should ever happen in the U.S. justice system. The law we have (last I checked) is pretty clear that intentions can never constitute a crime - only actions with tangible results. It's not a long step from there to being able to, say, prosecute people for holding unpopular political opinions. Before you start telling us what a great thing that would be, consider that one day YOU might be the one holding the unpopular opinion.
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by moda0306 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:40 am

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:20 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:46 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:03 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:34 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:58 pm
boglerdude wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:24 pm
Open the borders to increase supply of skilled labor. And allow more US medical and dental grads.
???

Opening the borders will increase the supply of UNskilled labor and welfare recipients. You are delusional if you think otherwise.

Allowing more healthcare grads will solve nothing other than to further saturate the already over-saturated urban and suburban areas with providers who will then need to cut costs and patient time in order to survive. You know not of what you speak. I have 35 years in the industry, and increasing the output of dentists was counter-productive on all levels. Now corporate dentistry is taking over because they can use economies of scale to reduce overhead and increase profitability, but at the cost of over treatment and poor quality outcomes.

If you are going to make statements, please provide some data to back up your opinions.
Pot... meet kettle. One would think that Trumpanzees would shy away from the whole "please back up your opinions up with data" rhetoric and skip right to the non-sequiters, straw-men, and factless rambling retorts.
LOL. Thanks for the ad hominem attack I've missed in your absence. And the usual 'only my sources are good' attitude. I guess working in the dental trenches for 35 years does not qualify me, in your ever so humble opinion, as an authority on the topic of the dentistry. And how exactly did this become about Trump?
Ok Boomer... another ad hominem

Your experience in dentistry and narrative wreak of someone who is just realizing that his cartelized industry is being filled with more supply than before, I realized this 35 years ago when I graduated. But regardless, dentistry is not a cartel any more than CPAs are.

therefore decreasing the ability to profit obscenely off of customers. Another ad hominem, and obscenely? Really? Are you profiting obscenely from your clients?

I don't know what the "Right Amount" of dentists are, but I'm kind of a jerk? You're right, you have no clue what the right number is. Thank goodness it's not you setting policy.

And yeah when you use Breitbart I don't read Breitbart, and have never quoted them.

and Prager F'king U Still not sure what your issue is with Prager, besides that he is a conservative. There is nothing that is not fact and education in their videos.
as sources then lecture someone else to find sources when you're just using your experience in the dental industry to speak to immigration policy I did no such thing. I was only referring to boglerdude's second baseless comment when claiming to be an expert.

then yeah I'm going to throw out an Ad Hom (though not really, as I'm not levying a judgment of your argument based on said insult).

And we are discussing immigration policy. No, actually we are discussing impeachment and its effect on battleground states.

Your support of Trump is more valid in a good jab at your inconsistency and lack of informed argumentation than your Dental experience is to the topic of immigration. Again, what does Trump have to do with this other than your TDS? I did not mention his name, nor did I say I was a supporter. Maybe a bit less of the weed you've been smoking my friend; it must be pretty strong.
Ridiculing someone isn't an "Ad Hominem." Supposing some sort of conclusion based on that insult is the ad hominem. I'm not trying to establish any conclusion... simply to put Trumpanzees in their place. And you're right... you're no-more cartelized than CPA's, and I have plenty of ridicule for my own profession, cartelization of my license, utter reliance on the complexity of our tax code for a rich demand for our services, and don't pretend life is hard cuz immigrants and too many accounting grads.

The idea that Prager U operates only in facts, and not priorities, values and opinions, is garbage.

If you're going to ridicule people for not backing up their posts with facts, quit parading around this place with your partisan factless/sourceless posts and "dental experience."
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by moda0306 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:59 am

WiseOne wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:02 am
moda0306 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:46 pm
Ok Boomer... Your experience in dentistry and narrative wreak of someone who is just realizing that his cartelized industry is being filled with more supply than before, therefore decreasing the ability to profit obscenely off of customers. I don't know what the "Right Amount" of dentists are, but I'm

And yeah when you use Breitbart and Prager F'king U as sources then lecture someone else to find sources when you're just using your experience in the dental industry to speak to immigration policy, then yeah I'm going to throw out an Ad Hom (though not really, as I'm not levying a judgment of your argument based on said insult).

And we are discussing immigration policy. Your support of Trump is more valid in a good jab at your inconsistency and lack of informed argumentation than your Dental experience is to the topic of immigration.
Jeez Moda...your lithium levels must be low.

For starters, your average dentist (or doctor) isn't doing what they do to "profit obscenely off of customers." If you really believe that, then...may I ask if you yourself accept medical and dental care from people you revile so deeply?

And, I'm still old-fashioned enough to think that convicting someone for what he might have said during a phone call is not something that should ever happen in the U.S. justice system. The law we have (last I checked) is pretty clear that intentions can never constitute a crime - only actions with tangible results. It's not a long step from there to being able to, say, prosecute people for holding unpopular political opinions. Before you start telling us what a great thing that would be, consider that one day YOU might be the one holding the unpopular opinion.
I don't "revile" any profession. I just ask that professions are honest about the advantages they have and don't scape-goat immigrants and academia for their inability to make a tidy profit.

I've had it with boomers (or anyone) trying to lecture Americans on "The Rule of Law." Law is an opinion with a gun, and that's before it's selectively enforced by Soldiers of Capital, and has been utterly ignored by conservatives and centrists (and, yes, leftists) when convenient to their cause, only to raise their concern when "their guy" becomes victim to it.

All that-said, I don't know where I ever suggested we prosecute people for unpopular political views. I'm a pretty big civil libertarian.
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by Maddy » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:08 am

WiseOne wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:02 am

Jeez Moda...your lithium levels must be low.
I love this forum. :)
moda0306 wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:59 am
I just ask that professions are honest about the advantages they have and don't scape-goat immigrants and academia for their inability to make a tidy profit.
Huh?
moda0306 wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:59 am
I've had it with boomers (or anyone) trying to lecture Americans on "The Rule of Law." Law is an opinion with a gun.
Now you've managed to display your ignorance of my profession as well. You claim that the "rule of law" is the problem, and then attempt to substantiate that proposition by citing one instance after another in which the law has been bastardized, trampled or thrown entirely by the wayside. You should take ten giant steps back and take a good, critical look at the side you're rooting for.
Last edited by Maddy on Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:26 am

WiseOne wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:02 am


And, I'm still old-fashioned enough to think that convicting someone for what he might have said during a phone call is not something that should ever happen in the U.S. justice system.
Can someone explain then, why Blago is spending 14 years in federal prison for "trying" and failing at the same thing? Why did the dems roll over on him??

Under the direction of U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald,[100] Governor Blagojevich was arrested at his home by federal agents on December 9, 2008, and charged with corruption. The Justice Department complaint alleged that the governor conspired to commit several "pay to play" schemes, including attempting "to obtain personal gain ... through the corrupt use" of his authority to fill the United States Senate seat vacated by Barack Obama following his election as president, claiming that in wiretapped recordings Blagojevich discussed his desire to get something in exchange for an appointment to the seat.

The Illinois House and Senate moved quickly thereafter to impeach the governor for abuse of power and corruption. On January 8, the Illinois House voted 114–1 (with three abstentions) to impeach Blagojevich.[104][105] The charges brought by the House emphasized Blagojevich's alleged abuses of power and his alleged attempts to sell legislative authorizations and/or vetoes, and gubernatorial appointments including that of Obama's vacated Senate seat. Blagojevich was taped by the FBI saying "I've got this thing, and it's fucking golden. I'm just not giving it up for fucking nothing."[106] He was removed from office and prohibited from ever holding public office in the state of Illinois again, by two separate and unanimous votes of 59–0 by the Illinois Senate on January 29, 2009. Blagojevich's lieutenant governor Patrick Quinn subsequently became governor of Illinois.
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by flyingpylon » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:51 am

Do you honestly think the Blagojevich and Trump situations are equal?
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:26 pm

No, but similar. So, my question would be is if a tape of the phone call Trump had come out and clearly showed he was going to withhold aid, would that make a 100% difference to republicans?

Are they taking their positions simply because there is no specific hard evidence?
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by moda0306 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:05 pm

Maddy wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:08 am
WiseOne wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:02 am

Jeez Moda...your lithium levels must be low.
I love this forum. :)
moda0306 wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:59 am
I just ask that professions are honest about the advantages they have and don't scape-goat immigrants and academia for their inability to make a tidy profit.
Huh?
moda0306 wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:59 am
I've had it with boomers (or anyone) trying to lecture Americans on "The Rule of Law." Law is an opinion with a gun.
Now you've managed to display your ignorance of my profession as well. You claim that the "rule of law" is the problem, and then attempt to substantiate that proposition by citing one instance after another in which the law has been bastardized, trampled or thrown entirely by the wayside. You should take ten giant steps back and take a good, critical look at the side you're rooting for.
"The Rule of Law" is a problem... not THE problem. Part of the problem is that even if "The Law" could be enforced without the enforcement arm of the state imploding on itself, it still would be just an opinion with a process that is pre-decided by some that was legitimate. Others would likely disagree.

The other part of the problem is that because the system can't enforce all laws without imploding, that huge imbalanced priorities are made about when/how to enforce which laws, and people quickly go from wanting some laws enforced to wanting others not enforced based on moving goalposts of reasoning.

I didn't really give examples, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. I more or less said that conservatives and centrists are clownish and hypocritical on "The Rule of Law," just as many on the left are, though not all of them try to communicate "Rule of Law" values as their driving moral force, but some other moral priority.

What "side" do you assume I'm rooting for? I'm not terribly confident on impeachment. I have mixed feelings on it. What I am confident is that Trumpanzees have no f'ing idea what they're talking about, and are hopeless tribal boobs.
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