How do you invest the Cash portion?

Discussion of the Cash portion of the Permanent Portfolio

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dualstow
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by dualstow » Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:03 am

Pet Hog wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:45 pm
dualstow wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:29 am
... imagine you suddenly need to use cash at the same time that five-year treasuries sharply decrease in value. How mature is that ladder? How many of those treasuries can you really sell in a pinch without much of a loss?
Can you give an example of such a situation? Because as a PP investor in the accumulation phase, my first response would be to pay for this sudden emergency with money from my emergency fund (not five-year treasuries), or with earnings from my job, or put it on a credit card. Ideally, I wouldn't touch my PP cash.
A situation more specific than a sharp rise in interest rates plus some kind of catastrophe that would require cash? Use your imagination.

It does change things if you have an emergency fund that is separate from pp cash. I didn't really use to hold cash pre-pp, and now I've grown used to it. Like a lot of people who run this portfolio, though, I don't have a separate emergency fund of cash in addition to pp cash.

I was responding to
I have no problem with cash being defined as up to five-year treasuries/CDs
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by sophie » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:48 am

pugchief wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:29 pm
Yes, really. They won't lose value? Maybe not in the sense of the return of principal, but certainly in the sense of opportunity. And you are talking about I bonds. EEs are even worse.
What kind of opportunity do you mean?

I bonds are much better than CDs for me, because of the state/local tax exemption and tax deferral for the life of the bond. I'm not aware of any opportunities that would qualify as cash.

I think five year treasuries, CDs etc all have a place (if you're not a PP purist I guess, when it comes to the CDs). You still need a source of cash in its most liquid form. Like dualstow, I hold money markets and 4 week T bills as part of my cash allocation, not separately from the PP.
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by Pet Hog » Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:15 pm

dualstow wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:03 am
I was responding to
I have no problem with cash being defined as up to five-year treasuries/CDs
And the rest of that sentence is, "but I'm in the accumulation phase." I think someone in the accumulation phase has greater risk-tolerance toward any changes in interest rates and/or emergencies and, therefore, can be a bit more aggressive with all aspects of the PP, but particularly with the cash component. Ergo, my tolerance toward five-year treasuries and CDs.

I'm still curious if anyone can provide an example of an emergency situation that would be problematic to the PP investor in the accumulation phase and holding five-year treasuries. I'll suggest my own. Consider a PP valued at $400,000, so $100,000 in cash with $20,000 in each of five rungs of a five-year treasury ladder, currently all yielding about 1.6%. The investor is in the accumulation phase and adds $500 every month. If interest rates suddenly spike to about 5% (gains of 3.4%-ish) -- after a terrorist attack, a state government default, or surprise presidential election result** -- and we approximate the dollar effect to be "duration multiplied by percentage change," then the one-year treasuries would decline by about 3.4% (maybe $700 of $20,000) and the five-years by about 17% (maybe $3400 of $20,000). An emergency strikes and this investor needs $20,000. Cashing out the one-year treasuries would come with a loss of $700, but that would be made up in a month or two with earnings from employment. If the emergency is for $100,000, then I suggest taking the money wisely from the portfolio as a whole## and not necessarily from the four- and five-year treasuries. With that spike in interest rates, 30-year treasuries would surely suffer badly, but maybe stocks and gold would be doing OK. Paying 10% capital gains tax (or maybe 0%) on the sale of $20,000 of stocks (maybe only $10,000 of which is capital gains, so $1000 in tax -- covered by two months of work) would be better than locking in a loss of $3400 when selling those five-year treasuries. The accumulation-phase PP investor should have options to weather a storm without having to resort to selling depreciated five-year treasuries.

**I suspect some of these surprises might cause investors to buy treasuries and lower their yields; feel free to consider a more appropriate disaster.

##Taking $100,000 from cash alone would necessitate rebalancing the whole PP, resulting in a similar tax effect as withdrawing equally from each of the assets.
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by jhogue » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:23 pm

Pet Hog,
I disagree with your assumption that “someone in the accumulation phase has greater risk-tolerance” and therefore can be (ought to be?) more aggressive with their investments.

Consider a couple of real-world examples:

Example #1. 52 year old female (divorced, with 3 kids) came down with brain cancer. Got fired from her long-time nursing job because she could not work any more. Had to liquidate IRAs and 403b to meet monthly mortgage payments and medical bills before she died at age 56. I would not have suggested that she invest in 5 year CDs- or 5 year T-bills. Would you?

Example #2. 40 year old male working in the red-hot real estate market in Las Vegas before the financial crisis of 2008-2009. Lost his job when the local construction industry abruptly collapsed. Could not find another job in the area, and with his own house now under water, he stopped making mortgage payments. He subsequently lost the house, but not before his wife divorced him and took 50% of his retirement funds as well as alimony payments. I would not have suggested that he invest in 5 year CDs- or 5 year T-bills. Would you?

To be sure, not all emergencies are strictly financial in nature. Nevertheless, these examples illuminate why safety and liquidity must come before yield, particularly in Cash.
Last edited by jhogue on Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by pugchief » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:29 pm

jhogue wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:23 pm
Pet Hog,
I disagree with your assumption that “someone in the accumulation phase has greater risk-tolerance” and therefore can be (ought to be?) more aggressive with their investments.

Consider a couple of real-world examples:

Example #1. 52 year old female (divorced, with 3 kids) came down with brain cancer. Got fired from her long-time nursing job because she could not work any more. Had to liquidate IRAs and 403b to meet mortgage payments and medical bills before she died at age 56. I would not have suggested that she invest in 5 year CDs- or 5 year T-bills. Would you?

Example #2. 40 year old male working in the red-hot real estate market in Las Vegas before the financial crisis of 2008-2009. Lost his job when the local construction industry abruptly collapsed. Could not find another job in the area, and with his own house now under water, he stopped making mortgage payments. He subsequently lost the house, but not before his wife divorced him and took 50% of his retirement funds as well as alimony payments. I would not have suggested that he invest in 5 year CDs- or 5 year T-bills. Would you?

To be sure, not all emergencies are strictly financial in nature. Nevertheless, these examples illuminate why safety and liquidity must come before yield, particularly in Cash.
Would you have suggested that they invest in EE savings bonds?
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by jhogue » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:41 pm

EE bonds can be redeemed for more than their nominal value after one year. 5 year CDs cannot.

Which would be better in a really bad situation?

Snowing like hell in Minnesota. How is the weather in Chicago, Pugchief?
“Groucho Marx wrote:
A stock trader asked him, "Groucho, where do you put all your money?" Groucho was said to have replied, "In Treasury bonds", and the trader said, "You can't make much money on those." Groucho said, "You can if you have enough of them!"
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by pugchief » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:45 pm

jhogue wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:41 pm
EE bonds can be redeemed for more than their nominal value after one year. 5 year CDs cannot.

Which would be better in a really bad situation?

Snowing like hell in Minnesota. How is the weather in Chicago, Pugchief?
That EE question was facetious. Less bad is still not good.

40 degrees and rainy. Not pleasant, but better than snow. You don't have to shovel rain.
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by Pet Hog » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:48 pm

jhogue wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:23 pm
Pet Hog,
I disagree with your assumption that “someone in the accumulation phase has greater risk-tolerance” and therefore can be (ought to be?) more aggressive with their investments.

Consider a couple of real-world examples:

Example #1. 52 year old female (divorced, with 3 kids) came down with brain cancer. Got fired from her long-time nursing job because she could not work any more. Had to liquidate IRAs and 403b to meet monthly mortgage payments and medical bills before she died at age 56. I would not have suggested that she invest in 5 year CDs- or 5 year T-bills. Would you?

Example #2. 40 year old male working in the red-hot real estate market in Las Vegas before the financial crisis of 2008-2009. Lost his job when the local construction industry abruptly collapsed. Could not find another job in the area, and with his own house now under water, he stopped making mortgage payments. He subsequently lost the house, but not before his wife divorced him and took 50% of his retirement funds as well as alimony payments. I would not have suggested that he invest in 5 year CDs- or 5 year T-bills. Would you?

To be sure, not all emergencies are strictly financial in nature. Nevertheless, these examples illuminate why safety and liquidity must come before yield, particularly in Cash.
I wouldn't consider either of these unfortunate people to be in the accumulation phase any more. Without jobs and without insurance and without a home I think it's more likely they are in the drawdown phase. Perhaps they shouldn't be in the PP at all. Go to 100% savings accounts. But if you had asked me to give them advice before their misfortunes occurred, I wouldn't have had a problem suggesting five-year treasuries because they haven't done poorly recently. That is, there hasn't been a big spike in yields, as far as I can recall, in recent years. Also, please note than I am not saying invest 100% of your cash in five-year treasuries. If you do hold five-year treasuries (and, personally, I don't), I would suggest holding them only as part of a ladder while also keeping an emergency fund (in or out of the PP) of something more liquid.

A couple of other points. First, I didn't say anyone "ought" to be more aggressive, just that having a job and accumulating means that you can be a bit more risk-taking if you want to. And if that risk involves extending a treasury ladder out from three years to five -- well, that's not really that much extra risk, is it?

Second, we are all PP investors on this forum. We don't like risk. I lost a lot of money, too, in 2000-2002 and in 2008-2009 and I wish I had been in the PP then -- with any type of 25% cash strategy!
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by drumminj » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:59 pm

jhogue wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:41 pm
EE bonds can be redeemed for more than their nominal value after one year. 5 year CDs cannot.
I'll challenge this. If the CDs have a 6month interest penalty (which the CDs I mentioned that started this thread do), then you can break them after a year for more than their nominal value. You'd get your money back, plus 6 months interest. Which, if the interest rate is twice what you can get with shorter-term instruments, you come out even.

I think you can make a safety argument against CDs (relies on a party not as credit-worthy as the US government, though arguably FDIC has the treasury/fed reserve behind it), but I don't see that your liquidity argument holds up here.
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by mathjak107 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:42 am

today pretty much a good prime money market from any of the major brokerages is fine .with the restrictions on them today the issues of the past are gone .

i put this about on par with buying gld , iau , etc for the gold portion . in the end they will likely be just fine ....

i already owned a money market that broke the buck and was closed back in 2008 .. but the stuff they were allowed to buy back then is no longer the case .

the same money printers that guarantee treasuries will be the same printers that guarantee other gov't bonds and also fdic payments to banks .
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by dualstow » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:59 am

mathjak107 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:42 am
i already owned a money market that broke the buck and was closed back in 2008 ..
You're in good company.
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by sophie » Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:55 pm

Yes, that's the problem - when you say you're in the accumulation phase, you're in it Right Now, but maybe not a month from now. All it takes is getting laid off or disabled for you to be shot straight into the withdrawal phase. In addition to all the poor souls in 2008-2009 who defaulted on their house payments after getting laid off, check out the threads on the Money Mustache forum with titles like "I lost my job now what?" - this stuff happens all the time. So I don't really subscribe to the idea of different investment structures for the accumulation vs withdrawal phases.

pugchief - I don't get the concern with I bonds, but I hear you on the EE bonds. I personally haven't bought any of those. Note though that if I lost my job tomorrow and my living expenses didn't change, it would be over a year before I'd get around to the savings bonds. And some of mine are over 5 years old, so no penalty at all for selling. I'd almost certainly have to rebalance into cash before I got down to the ones less than 5 years old.
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by pugchief » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:35 pm

At today's rates on I bonds, there are just more desirable ways to invest cash. IMHO.

I do own some I bonds that I purchased in late 2001 when the fixed rate was 2% (Dang it, if I had bought a month earlier, it would have been 3%!). Now if JHogue can get me that deal on an I bond today, I will buy more.
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by boglerdude » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:58 pm

> At today's rates on I bonds, there are just more desirable ways to invest cash

Which are? ibonds are risk free 2.22%
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by jhogue » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:00 pm

I would like to oblige Pugchief with better fixed rates on I-bonds, but neither our super-low yield curve nor the current crop of Trump Treasury officials support that. In fact, I am pessimistic about the future of the US savings bonds program, given the Goldman Sachs background and outlook of Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin. Encouraging the Great American public to save more just isn’t on his radar.

With regard to EE bonds, I still think they are a great buy for specific liability matching needs, such as saving for college or funding early retirement. Of course, before buying EE bonds, investors should max out all other tax-deferred accounts first (401k, 457b, Roth IRAs, and I-bonds). Buying EE bonds also takes a long-term view and patience—qualities that do not characterize either baby boomers or millenials.
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by pugchief » Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:59 am

boglerdude wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:58 pm
> At today's rates on I bonds, there are just more desirable ways to invest cash

Which are? ibonds are risk free 2.22%
You only get that rate if you hold for 5 years and don't pay a penalty. There are 5 year CDs available now paying more than that. I personally want my cash to be instantly liquid, so a STT fund or high yield online savings account would be my choice, even if the yield is lower.
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by jhogue » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:45 am

So, for that miniscule difference, why bother taking the credit risk of the CD-issuing bank PLUS the credit risk of the FDIC?

If all you really care about is a higher interest rate, I am sure there must be some really red-hot CD rates from Venezuelan banks right now. Adios, amigos!
“Groucho Marx wrote:
A stock trader asked him, "Groucho, where do you put all your money?" Groucho was said to have replied, "In Treasury bonds", and the trader said, "You can't make much money on those." Groucho said, "You can if you have enough of them!"
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by sophie » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:17 am

pugchief wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:59 am
boglerdude wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:58 pm
> At today's rates on I bonds, there are just more desirable ways to invest cash

Which are? ibonds are risk free 2.22%
There are 5 year CDs available now paying more than that.
Can you share? The highest 5 year CD that I can find is paying 2.15%. This is effectively much worse than I bonds for me, as they are subject to state and local taxes. I bonds are not PLUS they're tax deferred. This is another substantial benefit for me...potentially another 10% or greater tax savings on top of the 11% with state/local.

Also, you pay the same 3 month interest penalty (and possibly more) with a 5 year CD if you break it early. So I'm not quite following your logic here? Also, all CD agreements have a little gotcha buried in them to the effect that the bank can deny or delay your request to cash in a CD before maturity. Treasury direct has no such limitations on selling an I bond.

The one advantage of a CD is that if inflation rates drop, I bond interest will drop accordingly but the CD will remain constant. Of course it works the other way too, if interest rates rise. And of course you can break the CD in year 1 if you choose to. But if you're buying a 5 year CD (or an I bond) you hopefully have at least a year's worth of expenses socked away in a more liquid form, such as a savings account or money market fund.
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by pugchief » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:49 pm

sophie wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:17 am
pugchief wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:59 am
boglerdude wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:58 pm
> At today's rates on I bonds, there are just more desirable ways to invest cash

Which are? ibonds are risk free 2.22%
There are 5 year CDs available now paying more than that.
Can you share? The highest 5 year CD that I can find is paying 2.15%. This is effectively much worse than I bonds for me, as they are subject to state and local taxes. I bonds are not PLUS they're tax deferred. This is another substantial benefit for me...potentially another 10% or greater tax savings on top of the 11% with state/local.

Also, you pay the same 3 month interest penalty (and possibly more) with a 5 year CD if you break it early. So I'm not quite following your logic here? Also, all CD agreements have a little gotcha buried in them to the effect that the bank can deny or delay your request to cash in a CD before maturity. Treasury direct has no such limitations on selling an I bond.

The one advantage of a CD is that if inflation rates drop, I bond interest will drop accordingly but the CD will remain constant. Of course it works the other way too, if interest rates rise. And of course you can break the CD in year 1 if you choose to. But if you're buying a 5 year CD (or an I bond) you hopefully have at least a year's worth of expenses socked away in a more liquid form, such as a savings account or money market fund.
For instance, here is a 55 month at 2.6% or 84 month at 3.05% https://www.andrewsfcu.org/Learn/Resour ... cate-Rates. And I bonds are illiquid for 1 year, where as a CD is not. Also not sure the govt FDIC would allow default any differently that the US govt with treasuries.
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by jhogue » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:27 pm

Did you read the fine print? :

"Special 55-Month Certificate offer and stated APY may change at any time. APY effective August 14, 2019, is 2.60%; interest rate is 2.575%. Certificate has a $1,000 minimum and a $250,000 maximum balance. Must maintain a minimum $1,000 balance to earn the advertised APY. At maturity, all 55-Month Certificates will automatically renew at the 60-Month share certificate rate and term. Each individual member limited to one Special 55-Month Certificate. The Special 55-Month Certificate has a penalty equal to 360 days of dividends"

Doesn't look like such a great deal, especially the penalty for breaking the CD.
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by ochotona » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:03 pm

I-Bonds cannot break the zero bound. This is big f deal. Retail depositors in Europe are now being charged to keep their money in the bank.
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by vnatale » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:11 pm

pugchief wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:49 pm
sophie wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:17 am
pugchief wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:59 am
boglerdude wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:58 pm
> At today's rates on I bonds, there are just more desirable ways to invest cash

Which are? ibonds are risk free 2.22%
There are 5 year CDs available now paying more than that.
Can you share? The highest 5 year CD that I can find is paying 2.15%. This is effectively much worse than I bonds for me, as they are subject to state and local taxes. I bonds are not PLUS they're tax deferred. This is another substantial benefit for me...potentially another 10% or greater tax savings on top of the 11% with state/local.

Also, you pay the same 3 month interest penalty (and possibly more) with a 5 year CD if you break it early. So I'm not quite following your logic here? Also, all CD agreements have a little gotcha buried in them to the effect that the bank can deny or delay your request to cash in a CD before maturity. Treasury direct has no such limitations on selling an I bond.

The one advantage of a CD is that if inflation rates drop, I bond interest will drop accordingly but the CD will remain constant. Of course it works the other way too, if interest rates rise. And of course you can break the CD in year 1 if you choose to. But if you're buying a 5 year CD (or an I bond) you hopefully have at least a year's worth of expenses socked away in a more liquid form, such as a savings account or money market fund.
For instance, here is a 55 month at 2.6% or 84 month at 3.05% https://www.andrewsfcu.org/Learn/Resour ... cate-Rates. And I bonds are illiquid for 1 year, where as a CD is not. Also not sure the govt FDIC would allow default any differently that the US govt with treasuries.
Isn't the FDIC funded by individual bank contributions? In a true panic the FDIC could run out with no guarantees the government would step in to back up private banks. Maybe they would. But it's a lot different than the safety of treasuries. Plus, even if you were able to get your FDIC guarantee there could be a long delay from when you could actually get at your funds.

Vinny
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by sophie » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:17 pm

Those do indeed look like nice CD rates - for money you are willing to lock up for 5 years, due to that excessive penalty for breaking the CD early.

However, most of us cannot get them. You have to join that credit union first, and most of us can't do that:
ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS
You are eligible to join us if you are at least 18 years of age1, and one of the following applies to you:

You are employed by or a member of one of our Employer Groups.
You live, work, attend school, or worship in Washington, D.C.
You are or wish to be a member of the American Consumer Council.
You are an immediate family or household member2 of an existing Andrews Federal member.
You are U.S. Active Duty or U.S. Retired Military Personnel (or their spouses, dependents or dependent survivors) assigned to, or eligible to and are currently receiving benefits or services on a regular basis from Joint Base Andrews or Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst.
Civilian personnel of U.S. Military units (or their dependents or dependent survivors) who work at or are assigned to Joint Base Andrews or Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst.
Active Duty U.S. Military or Civilian personnel (or their dependents or dependent survivors) of the Department of Defense who have a valid Uniformed Services Identification and Privilege Card and who are authorized logistical support in accordance with the appropriate host nation Status of Forces Agreement, and who have a work or residential address within Andrews' assigned geographical territory, consisting of areas in: the Netherlands, Belgium, and northern and central Germany.
You qualify based on your affiliation with specific Military Installations.
My only option would be to join the American Consumer Council. And then I'd have to keep money in the credit union at near zero interest, for no other reason since I can't use their services in any other respect.

Easier just to buy the I bonds :-).
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by vnatale » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:18 pm

I started this topic on July 4th and it is STILL going strong!

Tonight I came back to it to reread what I initially wrote plus what everyone else subsequently wrote. Tonight I also completed reading Craig and Tex's book for the third time this year. The goal is to FINALLY come up with the plan I will execute to then be completely in the Permanent Portfolio. I still want to eventually get to Level 4 (per the book) but I do want to finally get the Permanent Portfolio started. I also recognize that I can gradually move each of the four investment components up levels from where I will be originally starting them so that each does end up at Level 4.

Therefore, along with that, I am going to first start off my cash investment 100% in Vanguard Treasury Money Market Fund (VUSXX). I at first panicked because it was NOT listed under Money market funds in Vanguard's Mutual Fund list. Had it somehow closed??!! But then I found it doing a search on its Ticker.

It currently has a Expense ratio of 0.09%. Quite low. With a 7 day SEC yield of 1.65% it's really earning 1.74%.

Assuming I later buy Treasury Bills in its place I could get quite close to the 1.74% rate, either slightly higher or slightly lower?

And, the time break-even is taking that 0.09% Expense ratio which turns into $9 per year for every $10,000 invested / $90 per year for every $100,000 invested and comparing that total Expense ratio $ amount I'd be avoiding by doing it myself to how much time a year it'd cost for me to do it myself (i.e., buying the Treasury Bills directly).

It seems that compared to the last time I looked the Portfolio composition has deteriorated with only 90.8% being in U.S. Treasury Bills with the remaining 9.2% being in U.S. Govt. Obligations? Seemed last time I looked the ratio was closer to 99% / 1%? Or, maybe I am mis-remembering? But this is a qualitative difference that pushes me more to doing it myself.

I have questions regarding buying the Treasury Bills at Vanguard brokerage but I'll save that for the next Reply.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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vnatale
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Re: How do you invest the Cash portion?

Post by vnatale » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:29 pm

Many months ago I talked to Vanguard brokerage regarding buying Treasury bills through them.

Since they are notes it's be great if any of you experienced with buying them through Vanguard can correct anything I'm not correctly interpreting from my notes.

1) No fees to buy them.

2) Maximum term - 12 months

3) For 1 month, 2 month, 3 month, 6 months Treasury Bills there are weekly auctions whereby you get to bid 3 days in advance

4) For 1 year Treasury Bills there are monthly auctions whereby you get to bid 4 days in advance

5) If buying on the secondary market you can buy any time from 8 AM to 5 PM, Monday to Friday.

In my entire life my own bond purchases have been via just two bond funds, both of which I still have. I have never purchased an individual bond so this is all new to me.

In addition to correcting anything I have mis-stated above, I'd love to hear as many specifics as possible regarding your Treasury Bill buying with Vanguard.

Since I will be going "pure" Permanent Portfolio I'm not interested in anything but Treasury Bills in the form of bond purchases to constitute the "Cash" portion of the Permanent Portfolio. Nothing longer than a year. No non-Treasury Bills, any other money market funds, or CDs. Given my overall situation, I'm placing a HIGH premium on safety with NO need to try to get small extra %'s greater than the Treasury Bill rates.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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