Figuring Out Religion

[Ad Orientem]

For those interested, I found this quite moving. It is by the late Rev E.V. Hill when he was called to preach his wife's funeral. The sermon starts at 1:26 if you want to skip the intro.

https://youtu.be/c_CDtEERSiE?t=86

[Mountaineer]

Do you try to justify yourself?

https://www.lhm.org/dailydevotions/defa ... e=20190711

Did you ever ask a question so messed up it not only wasn't right, it wasn't even wrong? That's what I see happening with the lawyer who decided to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asks, "What shall I do to inherit eternal life?" Listen to that again: "What shall I do?" Or maybe this is the emphasis: "What shall I do?" Either way, this guy's all about good deeds, all about what he can achieve. He's not looking at what God gives—grace—he's interested in what he brings to the table. He's so messed up he's not even wrong.

See link for the full page.

[jacksonM]

Do you try to justify yourself?

https://www.lhm.org/dailydevotions/defa ... e=20190711

Did you ever ask a question so messed up it not only wasn't right, it wasn't even wrong? That's what I see happening with the lawyer who decided to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asks, "What shall I do to inherit eternal life?" Listen to that again: "What shall I do?" Or maybe this is the emphasis: "What shall I do?" Either way, this guy's all about good deeds, all about what he can achieve. He's not looking at what God gives—grace—he's interested in what he brings to the table. He's so messed up he's not even wrong.

See link for the full page.

So what was actually the point of God giving the law and saying in the Torah (Exodus 34) "But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it". Why would God say that if it wasn't true, let alone hold the people accountable for not doing it with harsh punishments even though he knew they really could not obey because of their sinful natures?

Paul said the law was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ but he sounds like the cruelest schoolmaster you could possibly imagine to me.

[Mountaineer]

John 6:28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

[Mountaineer]

Two Types of People

Points to ponder:
A. Is one Type better than the other?
B. Are both Types necessary?
C. Does evil have to exist in order to understand good, or vice versa?
D. Do people go back and forth between these two types, or just slide somewhere along the scale in only one direction?
E. What is today's reality like for each of the two Types?
F. Which Type has the potential for greater internal peace?
G. Do you know anyone who is purely a Type 1 or purely a Type 2, or are most people a blend of the two Types?
H. Which Type would you choose for your neighbor?
I. What is eternity like for each of the two Types? J. How do you know?

Type 1. Sees a painting and admires the way the images and colors make a beautiful whole.
Type 2. Sees a painting and individually examines each brush stroke and paint blob.

Type 1. Sees a forest and how it is different from the fields of wildflowers.
Type 2. Sees a collection of individual trees and after a long walk to the field sees individual petals, pistils, and stamen that some call flowers.

Type 1. Listens to a symphony and marvels at the composite sound that springs forth from the stage.
Type 2. Listens to a symphony and ponders why each individual note is buried in a collection of other notes.

Type 1. Listens to the news and detects a pattern emanating for the week or month.
Type 2. Listens to the news and is whipsawed hourly by the apparently differing stories.

Type 2. Reads the Bible literally, examines each verse on its own.
Type 1. Reads the Bible and understands how each of the 66 Books of differing genres contributes to understanding God (note: every time God is used in this post it refers to the Triune God - God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit) and that which He chooses to reveal.

Type 1. Reads the Bible interpreting the Old Testament through the lens of the New Testament.
Type 2. Reads the Bible interpreting the New Testament through the lens of the Old Testament.

Type 1. Reads the Bible with the primary hermeneutic of Scripture interprets Scripture and Scripture is about God (e.g. what does this tell me about God and how do the clear passages help interpret the less clear?).
Type 2. Reads the Bible with the primary hermeneutic of reading ones self into Scripture, it's about me (e.g. who/what is the Goliath in my life?)

Type 1. Reads the Bible and if a passage does not make sense, thinks "I am a fallen sinful creature and it is my lack of understanding the Creator that is the problem."
Type 2. Reads the Bible and if a passage does not make sense, thinks "how can you believe a God that is so mean, so cruel, that He would not make me like Him and able to understand why He says and does that?"

Type 1. Believes there is cognitive knowledge, knowledge gained by experience, and knowledge that must be revealed to sufficiently understand reality. There is absolute truth and it resides outside the individual.
Type 2. Believes there is cognitive knowledge, knowledge gained by experience, and only that which can be observed is real. There is no absolute truth, truth is relative and lies within the individual.

Type 1. Accepts that God is the Creator, thinks I am the creature and I do not want a God that is small enough to completely understand.
Type 2. Thinks that man, or the creation, is the glory of the universe and desires to create a god that is in man's image.

Type 1. Has faith in the promises of God and His Word.
Type 2. Has faith in self and the words and hypotheses of man.

Type 1. Believes everything is a gift from God.
Type 2. Believes everything results only as a consequence of personal effort.

Type 1. Examines the situation and says, "It is enough".
Type 2. Examines the situation and says, "I deserve more".

Type 1. Believes that entropy governs our world and those that inhabit it.
Type 2. Believes that man progressively gets better and better.

Type 1. Believes a culture of life, but life corrupted by sin on this side of our final day, is the the best explanation for the way things are.
Type 2. Believes a culture of death, built on the concept of survival of the fittest (Darwinism), is the best explanation for the way things are.

[jacksonM]

Two Types of People

Points to ponder:
A. Is one Type better than the other?
B. Are both Types necessary?
C. Does evil have to exist in order to understand good, or vice versa?
D. Do people go back and forth between these two types, or just slide somewhere along the scale in only one direction?
E. What is today's reality like for each of the two Types?
F. Which Type has the potential for greater internal peace?
G. Do you know anyone who is purely a Type 1 or purely a Type 2, or are most people a blend of the two Types?
H. Which Type would you choose for your neighbor?
I. What is eternity like for each of the two Types? J. How do you know?

Type 1. Sees a painting and admires the way the images and colors make a beautiful whole.
Type 2. Sees a painting and individually examines each brush stroke and paint blob.

Type 1. Sees a forest and how it is different from the fields of wildflowers.
Type 2. Sees a collection of individual trees and after a long walk to the field sees individual petals, pistils, and stamen that some call flowers.

Type 1. Listens to a symphony and marvels at the composite sound that springs forth from the stage.
Type 2. Listens to a symphony and ponders why each individual note is buried in a collection of other notes.

Type 1. Listens to the news and detects a pattern emanating for the week or month.
Type 2. Listens to the news and is whipsawed hourly by the apparently differing stories.

Type 2. Reads the Bible literally, examines each verse on its own.
Type 1. Reads the Bible and understands how each of the 66 Books of differing genres contributes to understanding God (note: every time God is used in this post it refers to the Triune God - God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit) and that which He chooses to reveal.

Type 1. Reads the Bible interpreting the Old Testament through the lens of the New Testament.
Type 2. Reads the Bible interpreting the New Testament through the lens of the Old Testament.

Type 1. Reads the Bible with the primary hermeneutic of Scripture interprets Scripture and Scripture is about God (e.g. what does this tell me about God and how do the clear passages help interpret the less clear?).
Type 2. Reads the Bible with the primary hermeneutic of reading ones self into Scripture, it's about me (e.g. who/what is the Goliath in my life?)

Type 1. Reads the Bible and if a passage does not make sense, thinks "I am a fallen sinful creature and it is my lack of understanding the Creator that is the problem."
Type 2. Reads the Bible and if a passage does not make sense, thinks "how can you believe a God that is so mean, so cruel, that He would not make me like Him and able to understand why He says and does that?"

Type 1. Believes there is cognitive knowledge, knowledge gained by experience, and knowledge that must be revealed to sufficiently understand reality. There is absolute truth and it resides outside the individual.
Type 2. Believes there is cognitive knowledge, knowledge gained by experience, and only that which can be observed is real. There is no absolute truth, truth is relative and lies within the individual.

Type 1. Accepts that God is the Creator, thinks I am the creature and I do not want a God that is small enough to completely understand.
Type 2. Thinks that man, or the creation, is the glory of the universe and desires to create a god that is in man's image.

Type 1. Has faith in the promises of God and His Word.
Type 2. Has faith in self and the words and hypotheses of man.

Type 1. Believes everything is a gift from God.
Type 2. Believes everything results only as a consequence of personal effort.

Type 1. Examines the situation and says, "It is enough".
Type 2. Examines the situation and says, "I deserve more".

Type 1. Believes that entropy governs our world and those that inhabit it.
Type 2. Believes that man progressively gets better and better.

Type 1. Believes a culture of life, but life corrupted by sin on this side of our final day, is the the best explanation for the way things are.
Type 2. Believes a culture of death, built on the concept of survival of the fittest (Darwinism), is the best explanation for the way things are.

I'm thinking I am "J" but I don't understand these binary choices at all.Does that make me one or other or could there possibly be a type 3, 4, 5, or even more?

[Xan]

Our new pastor, Rev. Bryan Wolfmueller, delivered a great sermon today on the parable of the Good Samaritan. The gist being "you have no right to a 'not my neighbor' list".
https://www.stpaulaustin.org/sermons/se ... ays-fails/

[Kriegsspiel]

Possibly the first scientific proof of God performing a miracle.

[dualstow]

Possibly the first scientific proof of God performing a miracle.

Fascinating! At the same time, I now have a new worst nightmare.

[Kriegsspiel]

Jesus was a winer, but this guy ales.

[dualstow]

Our new pastor, Rev. Bryan Wolfmueller, delivered a great sermon today on the parable of the Good Samaritan. The gist being "you have no right to a 'not my neighbor' list".
https://www.stpaulaustin.org/sermons/se ... ays-fails/

I listened to it last night instead of the usual podcasts. Not bad. He’s got an interesting accent, definitely not Albuquerque. He kind of pronounces his O’s like the people in Fargo.

[Xan]

Our new pastor, Rev. Bryan Wolfmueller, delivered a great sermon today on the parable of the Good Samaritan. The gist being "you have no right to a 'not my neighbor' list".
https://www.stpaulaustin.org/sermons/se ... ays-fails/

I listened to it last night instead of the usual podcasts. Not bad. He’s got an interesting accent, definitely not Albuquerque. He kind of pronounces his O’s like the people in Fargo.

You're right it's an unusual accent. He's originally from Texas. I haven't heard anyone else speak quite like that. I might ask him some time.

[Tortoise]

Jesus was a winer, but this guy ales.

Alcoholic fermentation produces CO2 gas as a byproduct, so this guy also burps -- a lot.

[jacksonm2]

Jesus was a winer, but this guy ales.

Alcoholic fermentation produces CO2 gas as a byproduct, so this guy also burps -- a lot.

We all know that Jesus can turn water into wine. I prefer beer but wine is okay.

[Kriegsspiel]

I can just see the Urban Dictionary entries now.

"I was Pumping The Keg and was rewarded with a Jello Shot and a nice Pissner."

[dualstow]

Jesus was a winer, but this guy ales.

Alcoholic fermentation produces CO2 gas as a byproduct, so this guy also burps -- a lot.

We all know that Jesus can turn water into wine. I prefer beer but wine is okay.

According to the Comic (Book) Story of Beer, the editors of the New Testament mostly removed references to beer and replaced them with wine and they explained why, though I forget the details. Of course, I’d like to see a more scholarly source corroborating that notion, but Judea and Egypt was mostly beer country.

(Yes, Rome is a different story. In fact, that may have been the point).

[shekels]

Jesus was a winer, but this guy ales.

Alcoholic fermentation produces CO2 gas as a byproduct, so this guy also burps -- a lot.

We all know that Jesus can turn water into wine. I prefer beer but wine is okay.

Tried some Gruit. The early beer.
It was brewed with Herbs instead of Hops
Some herbs used were known to have stimulating and even aphrodisiac effects.
So with that, Herbs were phased out and Hops were used to make you tired.

[dualstow]

[Mountaineer]

"Repentance, then, is nothing other than the appropriate reception of God's Word of Law and Gospel. The Law comes and preaches to us, showing us our sin, our failure, our desparate wicdkedness, our lack of love, and whatever else is filthy and rebellious in us, and we are contrite. The Gospel comes with the sweet and glorious Good News that the Son of God came in our flesh and blood to bear our sins and be our Redeemer and Savior, and we believe it. The Law works contrition. The Gospel works faith. (And then both play their parts in the resulting love expressed in the Christian life.)"

A Martyr's Faith in a Faithless World - Bryan Wolfmueller

[Mountaineer]

We look around us, we observe, we know things are not "right". We see sickness, temptations, sorrow, and death. We inherently know this is not the way it should be.

Then there is the extra dose of suffering for being a Christian. In several ways, being a Christian makes life more difficult. You can't go to brunch on Sunday morning; you are expected in church. You can't go along with the jokes in the locker room. You can't embrace the culture's understanding of life, of love, of what is good. To be a Christian is to be an outsider in this sinful world. The world is the combined forces of the culture that stand against Jesus and His kingdom. The world is the devil's kingdom of darkness and all the things that go along with it. The devil sees to it that the world attacks Christians. The devil delights in afflicting the Lord's people. Part of the problem is the so-called prosperity gospel. Preachers in this strain, many famous and well-known, lie to Christians and tell them to expect a life of comfort and ease. These are lies, dangerous lies, because they train us to tempt God, to expect from Him things He hasn't promised. Suffering is not the problem; shallow roots are the problem. The Lord intends for us to have roots sunk deep into His Word, anchored to His promises.

A Martyr's Faith in a Faithless World - Bryan Wolfmueller

[jacksonm2]

Then there is the extra dose of suffering for being a Christian....you are expected in church.

Amen to that.

[jacksonm2]

My 42-year-old daughter is the last remaining believer of my three kids and as I'm watching what she's going through in a horrific situation I can only think to myself how much better she would be able to function if she would abandon her illusions of supernatural intervention. She prays to Jesus only to have her hopes crushed to pieces and then she has to ask herself what SHE might be doing wrong and why isn't Jesus answering her prayers. Then she has to exert what little energy she has to strengthen her faith instead of spending that same energy on doing what she logically can to improve her own situation all by herself.

At some point you just have to really stop and think that if a bear is chasing you in the woods you really have to save yourself or else the bear is going to eat you.

It's not being mad at God. It's just realizing that the bear is going to eat you. Whether God is watching and cares about that or not is a completely irrelevant consideration.

[Mountaineer]

Jacksonm2, I am so sorry that your daughter, and you, are suffering on this side of the Last Day.

[dualstow]

Whether God is watching and cares about that or not is a completely irrelevant consideration.

That reminds me of something I read about Zen Buddhism. It said that Zen doesn't actively deny God. It just advocates behaving the same way whether God is there or not.

[Xan]

Whether God is watching and cares about that or not is a completely irrelevant consideration.

That reminds me of something I read about Zen Buddhism. It said that Zen doesn't actively deny God. It just advocates behaving the same way whether God is there or not.

That is very good advice.

Concepts like "relevant", "should" (implied by "advocate"), and "good" imply eternal, objective truths. Fundamentally, they assume there is a moral right and wrong. If God is not there, none of those things makes any sense. Anything that goes, "if not God, then you should" or "if not God, then X, Y, or Z is good" is pretty much nonsensical.