Epstein

Other discussions not related to the Permanent Portfolio

Moderator: Global Moderator

User avatar
Xan
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4392
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: Epstein

Post by Xan » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:29 pm

Maddy wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:46 am
However, what remains largely in the dark is how a ring of pedophiles could effectively come to own and control everything that matters, including Congress, a majority of federal judges, and the heads of virtually every government agency right on down to the local level.
Isn't that a bit of hyperbole? At least, I hope it is. The majority of federal judges?

Also, a quibble... Pedophilia is attraction to prepubescent children. That isn't what's been going on here. These were underage in the sense that we don't consider them mature enough to consent, but they weren't really "children", biologically. I'm not defending any of this awful behavior, but we may as well label it correctly.

Maddy, the scale of what you describe is reminiscent of what may or may not have been happening in the Roman Catholic Church for the past few decades. Horrifying.
User avatar
Tyler
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2066
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:23 pm
Contact:

Re: Epstein

Post by Tyler » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:07 am

Xan wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:29 pm
Also, a quibble... Pedophilia is attraction to prepubescent children. That isn't what's been going on here. These were underage in the sense that we don't consider them mature enough to consent, but they weren't really "children", biologically. I'm not defending any of this awful behavior, but we may as well label it correctly.
Fair enough. To be precise, I've seen reports he targeted girls as young as 12. Call it what you want, but we're not talking about grown women.
WiseOne
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2692
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:08 am

Re: Epstein

Post by WiseOne » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:00 am

Absolutely amazing that this kind of thing could go on for years out in the open. It is impossible that law enforcement in multiple places in the US and around the world could have missed it. Didn't anyone connect missing children reports with appearance of minor girls without passports in NYC, or be at all motivated to do something useful like contacting parents or getting testimony from these girls? It does make you feel like people of female gender don't merit any official consideration. Though I'm not sure if things would have gone differently if the children were male.

Are there credible sources for an official conspiracy theory, as opposed to simple incompetence and laziness, combined with a reluctance to go after someone of apparent great wealth? And, it will be very interesting indeed to get some firm information about which high profile politicians were on this guy's guest list.
User avatar
Tyler
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2066
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:23 pm
Contact:

Re: Epstein

Post by Tyler » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:37 am

WiseOne wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:00 am
And, it will be very interesting indeed to get some firm information about which high profile politicians were on this guy's guest list.

2000 pages of legal documents from a lawsuit by one of his victims were unsealed 24 hours before he died. A brief summary of names named:
Giuffre said in several depositions that Maxwell and Epstein trafficked her to powerful men for sex. In 2016, she said Maxwell specifically instructed her to serve former New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, Britain’s Prince Andrew, wealthy financier Glenn Dubin, former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell, modeling scout Jean-Luc Brunel, and scientist Marvin Minsky. She also says Maxwell and Epstein directed her to have sex with “another prince,” a "foreign president," a well-known prime minister" and the owner of a “large hotel chain.” None of the men named have been charged with a crime and all have denied inappropriate behavior.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-bigge ... -documents
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14228
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Epstein

Post by dualstow » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:23 pm

Tyler wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:07 am
Xan wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:29 pm
Also, a quibble... Pedophilia is attraction to prepubescent children. That isn't what's been going on here. These were underage in the sense that we don't consider them mature enough to consent, but they weren't really "children", biologically. I'm not defending any of this awful behavior, but we may as well label it correctly.
Fair enough. To be precise, I've seen reports he targeted girls as young as 12. Call it what you want, but we're not talking about grown women.
I learned the term ephebophilia when we had a problem with a guy on another forum, say, 15 years ago, with a predilection for younger women. Needless to say, we had to let him go. As young as 12: hebephilia.

In any case, wiki says:
However, the term pedophilia is commonly used by the general public to refer to any sexual interest in minors below the legal age of consent, regardless of their level of physical or mental development.[3
-- same link as above
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
PP67
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:19 am

Re: Epstein

Post by PP67 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:01 pm

I thought the quote of the day belonged to John McAfee: "I was stunned by Epstein's suicide, though probably not as much as Epstein himself."

One has to wonder (or certainly Ghillaine Maxwell should be wondering) if Maxwell might get "suicided" as well...
Libertarian666
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 5994
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Re: Epstein

Post by Libertarian666 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:34 pm

PP67 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:01 pm
I thought the quote of the day belonged to John McAfee: "I was stunned by Epstein's suicide, though probably not as much as Epstein himself."

One has to wonder (or certainly Ghillaine Maxwell should be wondering) if Maxwell might get "suicided" as well...
I believe the technical term is "Arkancided".
User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4052
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Epstein

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:26 pm

Officials said that Epstein had met for many hours each day with his legal team, and that both he and his lawyers had repeatedly assured the prison that he did not want to kill himself and had asked MCC to remove him from the suicide watch. link
Image

Image

Image



I wonder if Epstein had any kind of deadman switch in place.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
User avatar
Maddy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:43 am

Re: Epstein

Post by Maddy » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:21 pm

Xan wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:29 pm
Pedophilia is attraction to prepubescent children. That isn't what's been going on here. These were underage in the sense that we don't consider them mature enough to consent, but they weren't really "children", biologically. I'm not defending any of this awful behavior, but we may as well label it correctly.
If you look at the pictures that are surfacing, some of these girls were quite child-like in appearance. Some were still in braces.
User avatar
Mountaineer
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4959
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Epstein

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:14 am

image1.png
image1.png (150.69 KiB) Viewed 9751 times
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4052
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Epstein

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:07 am

*Patiently awaiting the deepfakes*
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
User avatar
Maddy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:43 am

Re: Epstein

Post by Maddy » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:24 pm

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08- ... otect-your

This is an interesting article, based upon interviews with the girls Epstein recruited, about how he lured them into service. When I think about how naive I was at that age, how oblivious I was to the connection between cause and consequence, how ignorant I was of now obvious dangers, and how generally ignorant I was of how the world works, I cannot fault these kids at all for the choices they made. So while the term "pedophilia" (which focuses upon the man's proclivities) may not fit, the concept of sexual predition toward children certainly does.
User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4052
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Epstein

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:39 pm

Maddy wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:24 pm
This is an interesting article, based upon interviews with the girls Epstein recruited, about how he lured them into service. When I think about how naive I was at that age, how oblivious I was to the connection between cause and consequence, how ignorant I was of now obvious dangers, and how generally ignorant I was of how the world works, I cannot fault these kids at all for the choices they made.
I can't fault people who get raped at knife point, or the females who get kidnapped and locked in basements. But you can't tell me that these girls didn't know what prostitution was. Jennifer Aroaz says in the article that she was uncomfortable with what she was doing, but nevertheless she did it once or twice a week for over a year. Why? Because he was giving her a bunch of money for doing it, obviously. She knows she could have worked at McDonalds or a grocery store or something like that, but she chose to be a prostitute.

The one that you mentioned earlier, Courtney Wild, says she RECRUITED 70-80 other girls into the child prostitution ring. That's fucking heinous.

Unless I'm missing something... it's all darkness.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3353
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: Epstein

Post by ochotona » Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:19 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:39 pm
Maddy wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:24 pm
This is an interesting article, based upon interviews with the girls Epstein recruited, about how he lured them into service. When I think about how naive I was at that age, how oblivious I was to the connection between cause and consequence, how ignorant I was of now obvious dangers, and how generally ignorant I was of how the world works, I cannot fault these kids at all for the choices they made.
I can't fault people who get raped at knife point, or the females who get kidnapped and locked in basements. But you can't tell me that these girls didn't know what prostitution was. Jennifer Aroaz says in the article that she was uncomfortable with what she was doing, but nevertheless she did it once or twice a week for over a year. Why? Because he was giving her a bunch of money for doing it, obviously. She knows she could have worked at McDonalds or a grocery store or something like that, but she chose to be a prostitute.

The one that you mentioned earlier, Courtney Wild, says she RECRUITED 70-80 other girls into the child prostitution ring. That's fucking heinous.

Unless I'm missing something... it's all darkness.

If you are a minor, you cannot legally give consent, that makes it rape. Unless you are legally married while a minor, and some states make an allowance for people of similar age (dating teenagers).
User avatar
Maddy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:43 am

Re: Epstein

Post by Maddy » Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:27 pm

I'm just surmising here, but I suspect these girls' choices might have been different had everything been laid out for them from the beginning. Had that been the case, there wouldn't have been any need for the kind of sophisticated grooming that Epstein and his team had a knack for.

It's easy for me to see how a 14-year-old (especially one with preexisting psychological vulnerabilities) could believe that Epstein was actually interested in her as a person and committed to vaulting her to the pinnacle of success in the modeling or acting industry. To a kid coming from a troubled family, with self-esteem/identity issues and the usual teenage penchant for fantasy-type thinking, it must have been enormously reinforcing to be paid so much positive attention and to be treated as a desirable, adult woman. No doubt it was the role of Ghislaine, the mother figure, to normalize all of this and to convince these girls that what they were being asked to do was part and parcel of being a grown-up woman in the company of oh-so-important people. That message could have been easy to believe given these girls' lack of life experience and the manner in which the modern educational system has groomed children to be both non-thinking conformists and open and receptive to sexuality in whatever wierd form it may come. That would have been enough to cause many young people to get in over their heads, and at that point it's easy to see how they lost control of the situation. There may have been drugging, imprisonment, or even threats of harm. After all, control through the threat of blackmail was Epstein's specialty.
User avatar
Xan
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4392
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: Epstein

Post by Xan » Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:34 pm

So what was in it for Ghislaine?
User avatar
Smith1776
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3501
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:01 pm

Re: Epstein

Post by Smith1776 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:42 pm

This s#$t seriously just makes me sick.

Like, really, I think we all know people like this in the world exist, but the depth and degree of depravity once revealed is just something else. The idea of preying on children like that makes me throw up a little in my mouth.

I know we got an official coroner's report and everything, but...
IMG_4905.JPG
IMG_4905.JPG (57 KiB) Viewed 9656 times
I still find the James Rickards portfolio fascinating.
User avatar
Smith1776
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3501
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:01 pm

Re: Epstein

Post by Smith1776 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:45 pm

Despite the above, I do concede that in some cases it's "unfair" when certain people are labeled pedophiles, when what they've done involved, say, a 16 year old.

Technically, that's a ephebophilia... perhaps not as egregious as pedophilia, but still...
I still find the James Rickards portfolio fascinating.
User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4052
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Epstein

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:03 pm

ochotona wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:19 pm
If you are a minor, you cannot legally give consent, that makes it rape. Unless you are legally married while a minor, and some states make an allowance for people of similar age (dating teenagers).
No argument there.
Maddy wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:27 pm
There may have been drugging, imprisonment, or even threats of harm. After all, control through the threat of blackmail was Epstein's specialty.
I was just going by what I read in that article.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
D1984
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 730
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:23 pm

Re: Epstein

Post by D1984 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:03 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:45 pm
Despite the above, I do concede that in some cases it's "unfair" when certain people are labeled pedophiles, when what they've done involved, say, a 16 year old.

Technically, that's a ephebophilia... perhaps not as egregious as pedophilia, but still...

But still what, exactly? What you are describing (a person over 18 having sex with a person who is 16 years of age) and implying is ephebophilia/pedophilia is quite legal in over half the US. What exactly is wrong with an adult having sex with a 16 year old? Surely you can see that a 16-year old is not the same thing as, say, a 16 month old? Would you call my dad an ephebophile (he starting dating my mom when she had just turned 17 and he was 34...this was in the early 1980s)...or my grandfather (IIRC from what he told me he started dating my grandmother when she was 15 and he was in his mid-20s...this was in the late 1950s)? How about Brigitte Macron (nee Trogneux)...the First Lady of France; apparently she started having sex with Emmanuel Macron when she was 39 and he was 15? What about Phil Robertson of Duck Dynasty fame who suggested twentysomething and thirtysomething men should marry 15 or 16 year old ladies? Are all these people in the same moral category as pedophiles and child molesters?

For that matter, if someone had been a resident of Hawaii and did what Epstein did (had sex with 14 and 15 year old females) and did it before late 2001 he would have been--presuming they did not use drugging/blackmail/threats which was and still is illegal no matter the age of one's partner--perfectly within the law; the state of Hawaii didn't raise its age of consent from 14 to 16 before the end of 2001. Furthermore, had he been in British Columbia (or most of the rest of Canada, come to think of it) and had been a Canadian citizen and did what he did before mid-2008 then he would have been perfectly within the letter of the law as well. Or even if this had taken place in Spain before September 2013 (less than 6 years ago) and the female in question was at least 13 which up until then was 100% legal there. And none of this is even mentioning most of the rest of Europe, or Japan, or South Korea, or Mexico, or Philippines, or what the legal age of consent was before the end of 2007 in New Zealand for when the male partner was under-aged and the female partner was 18 or more (look that last one up and prepare to be rather surprised/shocked).

I certainly don't condone people having sex with young (as in prepubescent) children but I also don't understand this (to my mind's eye) kind of extremist mindset of "have sex with someone who is 18 years and a few seconds old...that's 100% A-OK; have sex with someone who is 17 years, 364 days, and 23.5 hours old and you are an icky disgusting child molesting pedophile/ephebophile scumbag who is the second coming of Albert Fish and Westley Allan Dodd combined and who should just be thrown in jail to rot for the rest of your life and/or put against a wall and shot" either.
User avatar
Smith1776
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3501
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:01 pm

Re: Epstein

Post by Smith1776 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:00 pm

I just mean that sexual coercion of an 8 year old is (all other things being equal) pretty much axiomatically worse than someone who is, say, 15.
I still find the James Rickards portfolio fascinating.
User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4052
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Epstein

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:45 pm

The Epstein memes are superb.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14228
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Epstein

Post by dualstow » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:49 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:45 pm
The Epstein memes are superb.
I haven’t seen those, but there are some great limericks on twitter.
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14228
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Epstein

Post by dualstow » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:19 am

Here you go, pug. Feast! O0
https://twitter.com/hashtag/EpsteinLime ... wsrc%5Etfw

One caveat: some people have no clue about meter. Hey, it’s twitter. But there are some gems.

Here’s one of many from Bret Weinstein — you may remember him from such threads as The Left is Eating Itself, as he was the ousted professor who used to work at Evergreen.
ABC will never confess
All the reasons it chose to suppress
The things that it knew of the rich men who flew
Aboard Epstein’s Lolita Express
from “mom folding laundry”:
There once was a private school teach,
Who did, from all royalty, leach
Both scruples and cash
Peddling underage snatch
But, in jail, he could not dodge their reach.
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4052
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Epstein

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:12 pm

dualstow wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:49 am
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:45 pm
The Epstein memes are superb.
I haven’t seen those, but there are some great limericks on twitter.
Image

Image
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
Post Reply