Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri May 31, 2019 4:40 pm

Ad Orientem wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 2:38 pm
I think a plausible argument could be made that this is the most incompetent president in US history.
Let's hear it!
He is certainly the most corrupt.
If you're certain, state your case. I've read about some pretty corrupt presidents; Harding and Nixon, obviously, but it's now looking like Obama was involved in some serious shit too, but I'm no presidential scholar or anything.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by Tortoise » Fri May 31, 2019 4:57 pm

ochotona wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 9:21 pm
https://youtu.be/fBBKgoNDvUI
I like how the guy in that video was freaking out about the Mexico tariff, saying that it was basically causing a complete meltdown in stock market futures (he even sang "It's the End of the World As We Know It" at the end of the video)...

...And then it ended up just being a fairly normal day in the stock market. Yawn.

I tell ya, these doom-and-gloomers. Such drama queens. Obama wasn't the Antichrist, and Trump isn't going to cause the end of the world.
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by Kbg » Fri May 31, 2019 5:10 pm

Pmward,

I hope all works out well for you over the next couple of days.

Good luck, may the short term day to day market fluctuations be with you!

kbg
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by jacksonM » Fri May 31, 2019 5:23 pm

I hear the president of Mexico, or at least some high ranking official, is on his way to the White House for talks as we speak. Which was kind of the point, I think.

Very strange situation when Trump can't get any help from congress to deal with the border situation and has to resort to putting economic pressure on Mexico.
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by pmward » Fri May 31, 2019 5:44 pm

Kbg wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 5:10 pm
Pmward,

I hope all works out well for you over the next couple of days.

Good luck, may the short term day to day market fluctuations be with you!

kbg
Thanks. We actually had a positive reversal today. We opened down a little more than 1% with the market, but somehow closed in the green. I'm not sure how that happened as we had no news released today. So currently I actually have a small few cent gain on my cost basis set a year ago (I had a 30%+ gain just a few short weeks ago before Trump started the trade BS). I've got my fingers crossed all weekend that Trump will leave Twitter alone so we can get a good open Monday for me to sell into.
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by ochotona » Fri May 31, 2019 6:02 pm

Good luck
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by moda0306 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:04 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 7:45 pm
jacksonM wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 5:23 pm
I hear the president of Mexico, or at least some high ranking official, is on his way to the White House for talks as we speak. Which was kind of the point, I think.

Very strange situation when Trump can't get any help from congress to deal with the border situation and has to resort to putting economic pressure on Mexico.
I give him credit for doing whatever is necessary to accomplish his goal.
Did you give Obama credit for doing “whatever” was necessary to complete his goal of commmie healthcare?

Come on. Let’s be honest here. This is all a big joke and has been since this Buffoon ran for office on the backs of his Trumpanzees.
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by boglerdude » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:35 am

Trump just wants to be praised at his rallies. If it weren't him in office it'd be a clone, some other populist that tells the base what they want to hear (ie bringing jobs back). Loss of "easy" manufacturing jobs combined with the Deep State/Wall Street/Old Money trying to force through unlikable Hillary. In the long run Trump will back off any policy that ends up hurting the market. His friends stock prices.
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by shekels » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:15 am

Ok this is what I think is happening. Trump is wanting the Fed to cut rates,he has tweeted as much. He wants the market/economy to look good before the next elections (window dressing).So to get that Liquidity injected into the system to raise the markets, he is trying to in a round about way force the FED to comply. If tariffs bring jobs back and stop illegal immigration, GREAT. There is more here than meets the eye.
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by pmward » Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:17 am

shekels wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:15 am
Ok this is what I think is happening. Trump is wanting the Fed to cut rates,he has tweeted as much. He wants the market/economy to look good before the next elections (window dressing).So to get that Liquidity injected into the system to raise the markets, he is trying to in a round about way force the FED to comply. If tariffs bring jobs back and stop illegal immigration, GREAT. There is more here than meets the eye.
As silly as it is to play Russian roulette with the Fed, I do think that this does have some effect on what he is doing. I have heard this theory before from some people that have ties to Washington. He wants both lower interest rates and QE for his re-election bid, so he is definitely trying to force the Fed's hand. However, will it be too late? Will they respond enough? It's a dangerous and risky game he is playing there.

But at the end of the day that's only part of the reason. The real reason he wants to do this, his base has an irrational and super strong hatred for Mexico. I think that his base honestly would vote to blast Mexico off of the earth if they had the opportunity. At least in my own experience, the Trump followers I personally know fit that bill. So anything he can do to stick it to Mexico gets him credit from his base.
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by ochotona » Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:32 am

pmward wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:17 am
But at the end of the day that's only part of the reason. The real reason he wants to do this, his base has an irrational and super strong hatred for Mexico. I think that his base honestly would vote to blast Mexico off of the earth if they had the opportunity. At least in my own experience, the Trump followers I personally know fit that bill. So anything he can do to stick it to Mexico gets him credit from his base.
An advanced European country went off the rails too, for 12+ years. 1/3 of them watched in fear as 1/3 of them killed or suppressed the other 1/3. We're going in that direction, too.
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by pmward » Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:59 am

ochotona wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:32 am
pmward wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:17 am
But at the end of the day that's only part of the reason. The real reason he wants to do this, his base has an irrational and super strong hatred for Mexico. I think that his base honestly would vote to blast Mexico off of the earth if they had the opportunity. At least in my own experience, the Trump followers I personally know fit that bill. So anything he can do to stick it to Mexico gets him credit from his base.
An advanced European country went off the rails too, for 12+ years. 1/3 of them watched in fear as 1/3 of them killed or suppressed the other 1/3. We're going in that direction, too.
Yep, Ray Dalio has a lot published the last few years about that specifically. Populism and nationalism, especially when they become global phenomenon like they are now, never end well. It almost always ends in some kind of repression and war.
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by shekels » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:51 pm

pmward wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:17 am
shekels wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:15 am
Ok this is what I think is happening. Trump is wanting the Fed to cut rates,he has tweeted as much. He wants the market/economy to look good before the next elections (window dressing).So to get that Liquidity injected into the system to raise the markets, he is trying to in a round about way force the FED to comply. If tariffs bring jobs back and stop illegal immigration, GREAT. There is more here than meets the eye.
As silly as it is to play Russian roulette with the Fed, I do think that this does have some effect on what he is doing. I have heard this theory before from some people that have ties to Washington. He wants both lower interest rates and QE for his re-election bid, so he is definitely trying to force the Fed's hand. However, will it be too late? Will they respond enough? It's a dangerous and risky game he is playing there.

But at the end of the day that's only part of the reason. The real reason he wants to do this, his base has an irrational and super strong hatred for Mexico. I think that his base honestly would vote to blast Mexico off of the earth if they had the opportunity. At least in my own experience, the Trump followers I personally know fit that bill. So anything he can do to stick it to Mexico gets him credit from his base.
It is very good probability that the FED will reduce rates in the near future so the tariffs will give a nudge. Now along the lines of Trump supporters it is very sad that the Trump followers that you know, think this way against Mexico. Is it a Regional thing that has produced this hatred IDK. Here where I am from in Texas the Trump base that I know thinks NO such thing about Mexico or Central America for that matter. In fact Trump base would like to see these countries prosper. The people of these South American countries just want a better life for themselves and families. So with so much Migration Legal borders be damned. Now the Government of Mexico may be a different story, but the same can be said about the US govt. Bat S crazy. If we want a sovereign country it is up to the U.S. to provide it. Illegal Immigration is not a new issue, this that gone on since Before Ronald Reagan.
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by pmward » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:42 pm

shekels wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:51 pm
pmward wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:17 am
shekels wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:15 am
Ok this is what I think is happening. Trump is wanting the Fed to cut rates,he has tweeted as much. He wants the market/economy to look good before the next elections (window dressing).So to get that Liquidity injected into the system to raise the markets, he is trying to in a round about way force the FED to comply. If tariffs bring jobs back and stop illegal immigration, GREAT. There is more here than meets the eye.
As silly as it is to play Russian roulette with the Fed, I do think that this does have some effect on what he is doing. I have heard this theory before from some people that have ties to Washington. He wants both lower interest rates and QE for his re-election bid, so he is definitely trying to force the Fed's hand. However, will it be too late? Will they respond enough? It's a dangerous and risky game he is playing there.

But at the end of the day that's only part of the reason. The real reason he wants to do this, his base has an irrational and super strong hatred for Mexico. I think that his base honestly would vote to blast Mexico off of the earth if they had the opportunity. At least in my own experience, the Trump followers I personally know fit that bill. So anything he can do to stick it to Mexico gets him credit from his base.
It is very good probability that the FED will reduce rates in the near future so the tariffs will give a nudge. Now along the lines of Trump supporters it is very sad that the Trump followers that you know, think this way against Mexico. Is it a Regional thing that has produced this hatred IDK. Here where I am from in Texas the Trump base that I know thinks NO such thing about Mexico or Central America for that matter. In fact Trump base would like to see these countries prosper. The people of these South American countries just want a better life for themselves and families. So with so much Migration Legal borders be damned. Now the Government of Mexico may be a different story, but the same can be said about the US govt. Bat S crazy. If we want a sovereign country it is up to the U.S. to provide it. Illegal Immigration is not a new issue, this that gone on since Before Ronald Reagan.
I'm in the southwest region, same as you. I know plenty of Trump supporters (including some family) in AZ, TX, and southern CA and all of them have a very strong dislike for Mexico. I even know a couple up in MI, my hometown, and they share the same views. It may indeed be that the people I know just happen to be that way. But it seems more than simply coincidence to me. /shrugs. It may also be worth mentioning that these people are mostly blue collar workers that feel personally harmed and threatened by foreigners (insert South Park "they took our jurbs"). For better or worse, Trump has taken that fear and hatred and used it to his advantage. Matter of fact, I don't think he would have gotten elected without it.

Well I think he is trying to push for easing, but whether or not the Fed actually does it is another story. Don't forget that these tariffs will cause CPI increase, which if the Fed actually stays apolitical and sticks to their dual mandate would actually cause them to be more tempted to tighten. Also, look what happened back in December when he tried to bully the Fed. They hiked simply to spite him. He put them in a position they had to hike or else be accused of no longer being an independent entity. Without Trump trying to publicly bully Powell I don't think we would have gotten that December hike. But in the end Trump had nothing to lose because after bullying them he could always use them as a scapegoat. Trump is not out for what is best for the country, Trump is out for what is best for Trump. I mean, he is very publicly calling for the Fed to print money simply to buy himself re-election. That's not exactly what a man of integrity would do now is it? In the tariffs he is indeed trying to intentionally cause a liquidity squeeze so he can force the Fed's hand. Not exactly what a great leader that was truly putting America before himself would do, is it?
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:07 am

I'm reminded of that study that showed that, while conservatives were able to articulate liberals viewpoints, liberals were unable to comprehend how conservatives thought. You guys are really reaching here :o

In other border news:
Border authorities nabbed a group of 116 illegal immigrants from Africa this week, saying it’s the first time they’ve found Africans taking advantage of the large-group tactic Central American migrants have learned to abuse.

The Africans were caught Thursday night near the border crossing in Del Rio, Texas — though instead of presenting themselves at the port of entry, they jumped the border, an official told reporters.

Like Central American groups, this one was comprised of children and families, and appeared to be attempting to exploit the same loopholes the Central Americans discovered they could use to gain an illegal foothold in the U.S. and escape deportation.

“Bring a child, get released,” said a Customs and Border Protection official.

CBP said the group included people from Angola, Cameroon and Congo. link
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by pmward » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:42 am

I guess if I were liberal that might be true; alas I'm not. There are quite a few conservatives out there that do not like Trump. It also was not that long ago that the "conservatives" were the ones that were pro free trade and pro immigration because both are good for the economy and business. It wasn't that long ago that "conservatives" were claiming it was unconstitutional that Obama was taking liberties with his power and trying to force things through, yet now they cheer when Trump does the same thing only arguably worse. It wasn't that long ago that "conservatives" were complaining about the budget and the deficit, now they are the ones cheering for both going to hell. It wasn't that long ago that "conservatives" were upset that the government was printing money through QE, now they are cheering Trump as he tries to bully the Fed into doing it. It wasn't that long ago that the idea of a political figure trying to get the Fed to print money to buy his election would have offended every "conservative" to their core, yet today they all support Trump doing it.

By "not that long ago" I really mean just 3-4 years ago, prior to Trump. My how times have changed. This new "conservative" view does not make any sense to me, to me it goes against every "conservative" fundamental I've ever known, and I do not support it one bit. I am an independent, and while there are things I agree with and disagree with on both sides of the isle, I consider myself to be more on the "conservative" side (at least old school conservative, I’m not so sure about this modern conservative views mentioned above). I'm definitely not a fan of Trump though. I generally dislike him as a person; I don’t trust him, I don’t think he has any integrity, I don’t think he is a good leader, I don’t think he is a good person, I have serious questions about his sanity and mental stability, history has proven him time and time again to be a liar and a cheat, and I don’t think he has any interest beyond self interest.
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by shekels » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:24 am

pmward wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:42 am


By "not that long ago" I really mean just 3-4 years ago, prior to Trump. My how times have changed. This new "conservative" view does not make any sense to me, to me it goes against every "conservative" fundamental I've ever known, and I do not support it one bit. I am an independent, and while there are things I agree with and disagree with on both sides of the isle, I consider myself to be more on the "conservative" side (at least old school conservative, I’m not so sure about this modern conservative views mentioned above). I'm definitely not a fan of Trump though. I generally dislike him as a person; I don’t trust him, I don’t think he had any integrity, I don’t think he is a good leader, I don’t think he is a good person, I have serious questions about his sanity and mental stability, history has proven him time and time again to be a liar and a cheat, and I don’t think he has any interest beyond self interest.
I do not believe Trump is a true conservative. The term Conservative to label someone of a different opinion gets thrown around way to often. Trump is hated and reviled yes, but he is also revered. If you don’t believe in the messenger, you probably won’t believe the message. On the reverse note. If you believe in the message, you probably believe the messenger.

Just placing this here in case anyone has not seen it.
Getting back to topic : https://buchanan.org/blog/tariffs-the-t ... eat-136986
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by ochotona » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:37 am

I noticed my new blue jeans are made in Poland. When do Poland tarriffs start?
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by pmward » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:33 am

shekels wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:24 am
pmward wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:42 am


By "not that long ago" I really mean just 3-4 years ago, prior to Trump. My how times have changed. This new "conservative" view does not make any sense to me, to me it goes against every "conservative" fundamental I've ever known, and I do not support it one bit. I am an independent, and while there are things I agree with and disagree with on both sides of the isle, I consider myself to be more on the "conservative" side (at least old school conservative, I’m not so sure about this modern conservative views mentioned above). I'm definitely not a fan of Trump though. I generally dislike him as a person; I don’t trust him, I don’t think he had any integrity, I don’t think he is a good leader, I don’t think he is a good person, I have serious questions about his sanity and mental stability, history has proven him time and time again to be a liar and a cheat, and I don’t think he has any interest beyond self interest.
I do not believe Trump is a true conservative. The term Conservative to label someone of a different opinion gets thrown around way to often. Trump is hated and reviled yes, but he is also revered. If you don’t believe in the messenger, you probably won’t believe the message. On the reverse note. If you believe in the message, you probably believe the messenger.
All great points. I think that I especially agree with your comments on the disparity in the term "conservative". That's kind of why I've been using quotes on the term, because it's so hard to define these days. I think both "conservatives" and "liberals" kind of have two sects right now, and old school sect a modern sect. I find that I really strongly disagree with the modern sects of both sides, haha.
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:11 pm

I was going to add that I didn't want to assume that you and ocho were liberals. You aren't Trumpies, and you seem to think they irrationally hate Mexicans and want to nuke them. IE, you don't understand what their viewpoint is. That's what reminded me of that study*. Your response is full of stuff that could be interesting to discuss, but wasn't what I was referring to by "reaching."

* MangoMan, here is a Jonathan Haidt article discussing a study he did. I don't know if that's the only study where they found that, but I do think it was Haidt where I first heard it:
In a study I conducted with colleagues Jesse Graham and Brian Nosek, we tested how well liberals and con­servatives could understand each other. We asked more than 2,000 American visitors to fill out the Moral Foundations Questionnaire. One-third of the time they were asked to fill it out normally, answering as themselves. One-third of the time they were asked to fill it out as they think a "typical liberal" would respond. One-third of the time they were asked to fill it out as a "typical conservative" would respond. This design allowed us to examine the stereotypes that each side held about the other. More important, it allowed us to assess how accurate they were by comparing people's expectations about "typical" partisans to the actual responses from partisans on the left and the right. Who was best able to pretend to be the other?

The results were clear and consistent. Moderates and conservatives were most accurate in their predictions, whether they were pretending to be liberals or conservatives. Liberals were the least accurate, especially those who described themselves as "very liberal." The biggest errors in the whole study came when liberals answered the care and fairness questions while pretending to be conservatives. When faced with statements such as "one of the worst things a person could do is hurt a defenseless animal" or "justice is the most important requirement for a society," liberals assumed that conservatives would disagree.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by pmward » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:22 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:11 pm
I was going to add that I didn't want to assume that you and ocho were liberals. You aren't Trumpies, and you seem to think they irrationally hate Mexicans and want to nuke them. IE, you don't understand what their viewpoint is.
Admittedly, I was exaggerating and being a bit facetious there. But the Trumpies I personally know really do have a passionate dislike of Mexico, and really any other country that could provide labor cheaper than they are willing to supply it. They feel threatened and fearful, and that does cause an irrational hatred.
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by stuper1 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:48 pm

pmward wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:22 pm
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:11 pm
I was going to add that I didn't want to assume that you and ocho were liberals. You aren't Trumpies, and you seem to think they irrationally hate Mexicans and want to nuke them. IE, you don't understand what their viewpoint is.
Admittedly, I was exaggerating and being a bit facetious there. But the Trumpies I personally know really do have a passionate dislike of Mexico, and really any other country that could provide labor cheaper than they are willing to supply it. They feel threatened and fearful, and that does cause an irrational hatred.
Are you familiar with this newfangled economic idea called the law of supply and demand? It applies to labor as well as products. It's really not irrational or racist to oppose abundant immigration if a person feels their livelihood is threatened. I'm one of the least racist people around, but I'd like to see immigration slowed down greatly.
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by pmward » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:05 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:48 pm
pmward wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:22 pm
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:11 pm
I was going to add that I didn't want to assume that you and ocho were liberals. You aren't Trumpies, and you seem to think they irrationally hate Mexicans and want to nuke them. IE, you don't understand what their viewpoint is.
Admittedly, I was exaggerating and being a bit facetious there. But the Trumpies I personally know really do have a passionate dislike of Mexico, and really any other country that could provide labor cheaper than they are willing to supply it. They feel threatened and fearful, and that does cause an irrational hatred.
Are you familiar with this newfangled economic idea called the law of supply and demand? It applies to labor as well as products. It's really not irrational or racist to oppose abundant immigration if a person feels their livelihood is threatened. I'm one of the least racist people around, but I'd like to see immigration slowed down greatly.
Of course it applies to labor. That's the whole point of my comment. What I said would make no sense if this wasn't the case.

So since it applies to labor we need to think this all the way through because trying to manipulate supply and demand is a double-edged sword. Every effect has innumerable side and counter effects. You have to be careful what you wish for. It is good for the economy, individuals, and business to purchase labor and supplies as cheap as possible. It leaves people more money to spend on other things. It leaves businesses and investors more money to invest in other places. All of these things create more economic activity, which in turn creates jobs. There are plenty of things the U.S. can supply cheaper and more efficiently than foreign counties, and it benefits all involved if we are focusing on these things we are efficient at, instead of trying to block competition so we can produce goods that we are not super efficient at. The economic tides are always changing, it makes no sense to cling to the past, we should be focused instead on moving forward. We should be focusing on what we do well, not on what we don't. In capitalism people need to learn to adapt. Its a constant wave of adaptation. Farmers were pissed back in the early 1900s, just like industrial workers are pissed now, just like people in the software industry like me will be pissed at some point in the future. The economy doesn't thrive when we focus on preventing change, it thrives when we move forward and innovate. The unfortunate cost is that those that refuse to adapt get left behind.

Also, it's common knowledge that the biggest predictor of economic growth is a growing population. Since we are no longer organically growing our population, we need immigration, or else we will turn into Japan.
Last edited by pmward on Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by moda0306 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:10 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:48 pm
pmward wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:22 pm
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:11 pm
I was going to add that I didn't want to assume that you and ocho were liberals. You aren't Trumpies, and you seem to think they irrationally hate Mexicans and want to nuke them. IE, you don't understand what their viewpoint is.
Admittedly, I was exaggerating and being a bit facetious there. But the Trumpies I personally know really do have a passionate dislike of Mexico, and really any other country that could provide labor cheaper than they are willing to supply it. They feel threatened and fearful, and that does cause an irrational hatred.
Are you familiar with this newfangled economic idea called the law of supply and demand? It applies to labor as well as products. It's really not irrational or racist to oppose abundant immigration if a person feels their livelihood is threatened. I'm one of the least racist people around, but I'd like to see immigration slowed down greatly.
There are other things that would be far-less pernicious and more effective...

1) More class-consciousness, generally. Knowing what your true risks and resources are as a worker and who your lot is in with vs who is most opposed to your economic interests.

2) Union membership and activism.

3) Opposing trade deals in how mobile they allow capital to be. Trade deals are more "investor rights" deals than anything else, and any dollar invested overseas is a dollar not invested here. Put another way, If labor can't cross borders, why should capital be able to? If a brown body can't go from Mexico to the US, why should some US "investor" be able to purchase profitable property in Mexico?

4) Encourage economic independence, rather than submission to US capital interests, of other countries.

5) Tariffs based heavily on labor protections and environmental protections in the foreign country in question to prevent a "race to the bottom" of capital to the country with "leaders" most willing to allow their country and populace to be exploited.

6) Citizen's dividend to give workers more bargaining power by giving them more non-disappearing financial safety-net.

There are many ways to protect your real wages... I'm amazed that the only way some want to explore is by a myriad of draconian policies to make millions of peoples lives hopefully miserable enough to make them move out of the country.
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ochotona
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Re: Immediate 5% across-the-board Mexican tariffs

Post by ochotona » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:28 pm

It's all about tribe now, not ideology. Ideas are used as tribal badges, not as the basic material for solutions to real-world problems. "Conservatives" virtue-signal just as much as the Millennial Snowflake Social Justice Warriors. It's all the same.
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