The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

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blackomen
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by blackomen » Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:15 am

pugchief wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 2:20 pm
I had not previously heard of Novamin. Googling it, I found an NIH paper that states that the substance has promise as an anti cavity agent, perhaps superior to fluoride.

I assure you that the ADA and or other dental groups are not trying to prevent its use unless they feel it is unsafe for some reason. We as dentists are always trying to put ourselves out of business in the interest of public health, in spite of what the public believes.

Depending on what issue you are trying to solve with toothpaste, it's unlikely to be a panacea. Many of the formulations, particularly regarding whitening are mostly marketing. Some incarnations have shown promise in other areas. For instance, Pronamel has been shown to reminerailze enamel, but if you sip Coke all day and brush with it only once a week, you will likely still get cavities. Etc. Etc. Xylitol has also shown to be effective.

The best advice I can give you all is brush, floss, Listerine and see your dentist twice a year. Don't ignore small problems as they will become large ones with time.

edit: for spelling and typos that make me regret using a tablet instead of a keyboard
Here's a recent viral article on Novamin: https://elemental.medium.com/why-is-the ... 3dda060501
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by boglerdude » Wed May 01, 2019 1:01 am

I eat once a day, that reduces wear. And nothing tough like meats. After a few years of this, if I eat an early meal, i get very tired
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by Don » Wed May 01, 2019 2:27 pm

Wow. Look at page one of this thread. Where have all of those great posters gone?
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by boglerdude » Thu May 02, 2019 2:15 am

Enjoying life, thats the point of the PP :)
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by vnatale » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:16 pm

MachineGhost wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:25 pm
At first glance this regime (inspired by a book that goes into the nitty gritty scientific details, Kiss Your Dentist Goodbye) doesn't appear to be anything radical, but each step is amazingly interdependent on each other step -- even negative side effects -- just like the PP!  Mess with it at your own peril. :D

STEP ONE: Use the RediBreeze, QuickBreeze or ShowerBreeze (or a WaterPik, etc. but will be inferior in power) to floss your teeth.

STEP TWO: Use a tongue scraper to scrape the gunk coating off of your tongue.  Don't overdo it or press down too hard; I use about six double swipes until the scraper comes off clean (you want to use running water to rinse it off in-between swipes).

STEP THREE: Use unflavored CloSYS that kills 99% of bacteria in the mouth (even anthrax!) and also highly alkalizes the mouth to protect it from enamal damage and erosion from the tooth brushing in the next step.  CloSYS has a proprietary wetting agent that allows it to slip under the gumline (but allegedly no deeper then 3mm).  Acidic enamal is very prone to damage.  Swish for 1 minute and not one second longer.  SPIT BUT DO NOT RINSE MOUTH OUT WITH WATER.  If you cannot handle using CloSYS twice a day because it negatively affects your sense of taste and/or gives you a funny metallic taste in your mouth, then use warm salt water (1 tsp per cup) in the morning and the CloSYS at night.

STEP FOUR: Use a pea size of a very specific, plain jane, Crest Cavity Protection Fluoride Anticavity Regular Toothpaste that has the unique ability to remineralize the teeth due to the ingredients and contains the only effective as well as natural version of the several forms of flouride commercially available.  The SLS is also bound up so it is not an issue.  This means none of the non-ADA approved marketing fiction gimmicks like tartar control, whitening, baking soda, etc. that just damage the teeth, erode the pellicle layer or inhibit remineralization as glycerine does (very common ingredient in natural toothpastes).  The toothpaste also coats the teeth to protect it from the acidic next step.  Brush for two minutes.  SPIT BUT DO NOT RINSE MOUTH OUT WITH WATER.  I recommed using an Emmident if you have dental implants as it can kill the bugs deep below the gumline.  Otherwise, use the best electronic toothbrush.

STEP FIVE: Use Listerine Original Antiseptic (not the other non-ADA versions) to kill off immature plaque bacteria.  You can use other flavors of Listerine Antispetic than the Original, but they will not whiten the teeth as well.  Listerine is quite acidifying (I confirmed with pH testing), so if this was your last step after brushing as is traditional, you are literally leaving acid on your teeth all night long in low saliva conditions.  Listerine ought to be criminalized, but its all about making a perpetual buck for dentists and manufacturers.  You can use as much cold water as you need to dilute this step so its tolerable and I recommend always doing so because the continual burning from the alcohol (necessary for the active essential oils to work) may degrade your taste buds.  Swish for one minute, then tilt your head back and deep throat gargle for 30 seconds.  SPIT BUT DO NOT RINSE MOUTH OUT WITH WATER.  It is acceptable to use Walmart's Equate Original Flavor Antiseptic Mouthrinse to save money.  I find the white cap a heck of alot easier to measure out the dose than Listerine's black cap.

STEP SIX: Use ACT Anticavity Rinse (not the other non-ADA approved versions) which neutralizes the acid from the previous step and raises the pH of your mouth back to alkaline.  The .05% flouride (18oz bottle) for remineralization is taken up 6x better when the teeth are acid and over time this process will actually harden (lower) the teeth's sensitivity to acid attack.  This step will also increase the flow of saliva to offset the mouth-drying effect of the alcohol in Listerine.  The more acid in the mouth, the better remineralization works, so ACT Anticavity wouldn't work very well being the last step after brushing when the mouth is already alkaline from toothapste.  Swish for one minute and not a second longer.  DO NOT RINSE MOUTH OUT WITH WATER.  The kids flavored versions of ACT Anticavity are okay to use and so is Walmart's Equate Anti-Cavity Mint Flavor Fluoride Rinse, but they are not as clingy as the mint ACT Anticavity.

OPTIONAL STEP SEVEN: Ideally, 30 minutes later and only once a day (I suggest in the morning), repopulate your oral microbiome with beneficial probiotics.  I recommend specific strains that break down plaque and reduce tooth decay, such as FlorAssist Oral Hygiene.

OPTIONAL STEP EIGHT: Another major boost in effectiveness can come from sucking on xlitol mints or chewing gum as an after meal dessert.  The bugs take up xylitol like any sugar, but because xylitol has one less carbon ring, they literally starve to death and out they go next time you do the rinses/brushing.  Xylitol alone reduces tooth decay by 80%-90%.  That's how good it is.

This twice-a-day regime in 7 minutes or so will completely eliminate dragon/morning breath and whiten teeth when followed exactly.  I've found a crucial step is to deep throat gargle with Listerine after doing the teeth.  Seems like odors still emanate from there if not cleansed.  It will also eliminate plaque, gingivitis and periodontal disease if you are diligent and fortunate.  You may not even need to have any scraping done at your next cleaning as some testimonials indicate!  And be sure to always tilt your head back when swishing so you reach the back molars.
Seeing this topic for the first time. Just bought the book used on Amazon for under $6.00 delivered.

My dentist already has me using the Listerine PRIOR to brushing and using on a pea sized (his exact words) amount of Colgate on my toothbrushes.

Vinny
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by vnatale » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:21 pm

Gosso wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:27 am
Perfect timing!  I just started this regime last week, after Gumby mentioned this in another thread a few months back.

Although I am not using the pre-brush rinse since I couldn't find the stuff at the store; instead I apply toothpaste very gently and allow it to sit for 30 seconds, then start brushing.  I'm planning on picking up some xylitol after work...if I can find it.

I still floss everyday since it can only help as long as the proper technique is used.

I haven't been doing this long enough to notice any major changes, but I have noticed that my mouth feels a lot cleaner when I wake up in the morning.

I also found this article on the Colgate website (of all places!) that suggests that we are better off to allow early tooth decay to heal, rather than drill and fill it in.
So early decay doesn't always mean you need a filling. In fact, the decay often can be reversed. A tooth starts to decay because acid in your mouth causes minerals to leach out of the enamel, and the enamel breaks down. Fluoride therapy, dietary changes and better oral hygiene habits can reverse this process by causing minerals to build up in the tooth again, making the enamel stronger.

In some cases, a filling is a no-brainer. If you're in pain or have an obvious cavity (a break in the surface of your tooth), you need a filling. But, says Dr. Albert, "If there's no cavity and no pain, the tooth can fix itself.

"If I saw 100 patients [who had early decay] and decided to wait six months before treating them, it would be the right decision for 95 of them. I think we do more harm by overtreating, because there will always be complications of treatment," he says.
Thank you for this. It explains a 45 year old personal mystery to me. When I first went to my dentist 45 years ago I had 29 sides of cavities. He went to work on taking care of the ones that needed immediate attention and from then and continuing now I've been super conscientious regarding tooth care. When I asked him why all those cavities did not need to be dealt with he said I'd arrested their development by my new tooth care regime and that many of them were tiny. It was not until now from reading the above did I know that many of those cavities had healed.

Vinny
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by vnatale » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:24 pm

williswine wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:38 am
Peelu USA (no affiliation) sells dental fibers made from the same tree as that chewing stick. I have been using http://peelu.com/dental-fibers/spearmint-25-oz/ for years now and my dental hygienist is always amazed at how little plaque I have. I don't really like the taste of it but it leaves my mouth and teeth so clean and it does not leave a toothpaste after taste that sometimes affects my sleep. Added bonus is that it is not a liquid so travels really easy. Oh, and it lasts a long long time (just like my crystal deodorant stick).

I'm however wondering if the system mentioned in the first post wouldn't do an even better job even though it certainly costs a lot more and has many more chemicals involved.  Wonder what Dr Ellie would say, maybe don't change a thing!
Link does not work. And, peelu seems to no longer exist? With the endorsement above, I was going to buy some!

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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by vnatale » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:40 pm

pugchief wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 2:20 pm
I had not previously heard of Novamin. Googling it, I found an NIH paper that states that the substance has promise as an anti cavity agent, perhaps superior to fluoride.

I assure you that the ADA and or other dental groups are not trying to prevent its use unless they feel it is unsafe for some reason. We as dentists are always trying to put ourselves out of business in the interest of public health, in spite of what the public believes.

Depending on what issue you are trying to solve with toothpaste, it's unlikely to be a panacea. Many of the formulations, particularly regarding whitening are mostly marketing. Some incarnations have shown promise in other areas. For instance, Pronamel has been shown to reminerailze enamel, but if you sip Coke all day and brush with it only once a week, you will likely still get cavities. Etc. Etc. Xylitol has also shown to be effective.

The best advice I can give you all is brush, floss, Listerine and see your dentist twice a year. Don't ignore small problems as they will become large ones with time.

edit: for spelling and typos that make me regret using a tablet instead of a keyboard
I don't think I have to tell YOU this....but I can assure you that Americans will NEVER put dentists out of business! The only way it will happen is if there are some radical advances in either medical or technology that require Americans to exert no effort on their parts!

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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by pugchief » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:33 am

vnatale wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:40 pm

I don't think I have to tell YOU this....but I can assure you that Americans will NEVER put dentists out of business! The only way it will happen is if there are some radical advances in either medical or technology that require Americans to exert no effort on their parts!

Vinny
Americans will not put us out of business, but that won't be necessary bc we are working hard to put ourselves out of business. There will probably eventually be a 'cure' for tooth decay and gum disease (not in my career, but maybe my son's), and the schools are working diligently to crank out way more graduates than are necessary for the need in urban areas without requiring service in underserved areas. And don't even get me started on how insurance companies and idiotic government regulations are ruining the profitability of what little business remains.
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by sophie » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:09 am

pugchief wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:33 am
vnatale wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:40 pm

I don't think I have to tell YOU this....but I can assure you that Americans will NEVER put dentists out of business! The only way it will happen is if there are some radical advances in either medical or technology that require Americans to exert no effort on their parts!

Vinny
Americans will not put us out of business, but that won't be necessary bc we are working hard to put ourselves out of business. There will probably eventually be a 'cure' for tooth decay and gum disease (not in my career, but maybe my son's), and the schools are working diligently to crank out way more graduates than are necessary for the need in urban areas without requiring service in underserved areas. And don't even get me started on how insurance companies and idiotic government regulations are ruining the profitability of what little business remains.
Interesting perspective. Pugchief, what exactly is on the horizon as a 100% preventative for tooth decay and gum disease? That is guaranteed to have no side effects? You see where I'm going with this...I think your profession is safe.

Of course, you'll have to be willing to work harder for less money due to increased administrative burdens brought on by government policies instituted during the Obama presidency. Welcome to our world (i.e. that of medical doctors).
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by vnatale » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:46 am

pugchief wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:33 am
vnatale wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:40 pm

I don't think I have to tell YOU this....but I can assure you that Americans will NEVER put dentists out of business! The only way it will happen is if there are some radical advances in either medical or technology that require Americans to exert no effort on their parts!

Vinny
Americans will not put us out of business, but that won't be necessary bc we are working hard to put ourselves out of business. There will probably eventually be a 'cure' for tooth decay and gum disease (not in my career, but maybe my son's), and the schools are working diligently to crank out way more graduates than are necessary for the need in urban areas without requiring service in underserved areas. And don't even get me started on how insurance companies and idiotic government regulations are ruining the profitability of what little business remains.
What percentage of your patients have insurance?

I think it was for only one year of my life that I had dental insurance. Otherwise it'd been me paying full price. I guess I'm paying for a lot of the people who do have insurance pay their bills? Same for my eye doctor visits. Have never had any insurance to cover them.

Vinny
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Re: The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

Post by vnatale » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:51 am

sophie wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:09 am
pugchief wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:33 am
vnatale wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:40 pm

I don't think I have to tell YOU this....but I can assure you that Americans will NEVER put dentists out of business! The only way it will happen is if there are some radical advances in either medical or technology that require Americans to exert no effort on their parts!

Vinny
Americans will not put us out of business, but that won't be necessary bc we are working hard to put ourselves out of business. There will probably eventually be a 'cure' for tooth decay and gum disease (not in my career, but maybe my son's), and the schools are working diligently to crank out way more graduates than are necessary for the need in urban areas without requiring service in underserved areas. And don't even get me started on how insurance companies and idiotic government regulations are ruining the profitability of what little business remains.
Interesting perspective. Pugchief, what exactly is on the horizon as a 100% preventative for tooth decay and gum disease? That is guaranteed to have no side effects? You see where I'm going with this...I think your profession is safe.

Of course, you'll have to be willing to work harder for less money due to increased administrative burdens brought on by government policies instituted during the Obama presidency. Welcome to our world (i.e. that of medical doctors).
From around 2005 to 2012 or so I did the monthly accounting work for a pediatric group. In part of that work I'd report the gross billings and then the insurance discounts. One time the managing partner in reference to what went on with their billings after insurance said it was "all funny money".

Vinny
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