The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

[Libertarian666]

No illusions on my part...what would politicians do if they couldn’t dole out tax and welfare goodies?

And we should start a “The right is eating itself” thread because it is. I live in a western highly red state and we elected the first democratic congressman since the 70s. I never thought I’d see that again in my lifetime.

Once Texas turns more blue, and it is, lights out for the current version of the R party.

(Former R until the bomb throwers took over)

So you prefer the D bomb throwers instead? I guess it takes all kinds.

[Kriegsspiel]

You can start that thread, I'd be interested in seeing what you're talking about.

[Libertarian666]

No illusions on my part...what would politicians do if they couldn’t dole out tax and welfare goodies?

And we should start a “The right is eating itself” thread because it is. I live in a western highly red state and we elected the first democratic congressman since the 70s. I never thought I’d see that again in my lifetime.

Once Texas turns more blue, and it is, lights out for the current version of the R party.

(Former R until the bomb throwers took over)

So you prefer the D bomb throwers instead? I guess it takes all kinds.

Did I say that? I prefer politicians who responsibly govern and dislike both the far right and left bomb throwers who are in my view destroying our country. It seems that most people in this country no longer have any understanding of what keeps a democracy functional...compromise and good will on both sides. I spent a significant portion of my adult life in areas of the world who don't have good civil society and it is ugly and awful.

Ok, sorry for misunderstanding you.

[Xan]

By the way, where are the 1st Amendment issues you refer to? I don't see them at all.

In my scenario, NYC wouldn't bend over backwards to have a hypothetical Chick-Fil-A presence. They might bend over backwards to have a hypothetical Ben & Jerry's presence.

Keep going down this path and what you effectively have is one tax rate for liberals and another tax rate for conservatives. Or, you could look at it as a religious thing: Christians have one tax rate, and then people who bend the knee to New York's values have another.

[Libertarian666]

By the way, where are the 1st Amendment issues you refer to? I don't see them at all.

In my scenario, NYC wouldn't bend over backwards to have a hypothetical Chick-Fil-A presence. They might bend over backwards to have a hypothetical Ben & Jerry's presence.

Keep going down this path and what you effectively have is one tax rate for liberals and another tax rate for conservatives. Or, you could look at it as a religious thing: Christians have one tax rate, and then people who bend the knee to New York's values have another.

Ok, but I don't see how that applies to Amazon.

Unless Alexa worship is now a recognized religion?

[Xan]

By the way, where are the 1st Amendment issues you refer to? I don't see them at all.

In my scenario, NYC wouldn't bend over backwards to have a hypothetical Chick-Fil-A presence. They might bend over backwards to have a hypothetical Ben & Jerry's presence.

Keep going down this path and what you effectively have is one tax rate for liberals and another tax rate for conservatives. Or, you could look at it as a religious thing: Christians have one tax rate, and then people who bend the knee to New York's values have another.

Ok, but I don't see how that applies to Amazon.

Unless Alexa worship is now a recognized religion?

I'm talking about the general idea of giving tax breaks to particular companies, of governments picking winners and losers. Not so much about the Amazon deal particularly. Although I'm pretty sure if Amazon were run by the same people as Chick-Fil-A (just as an example) that NYC wouldn't have been interested.

[dualstow]

You can start that thread, I'd be interested in seeing what you're talking about.

Seconded. And include which countries you spent time in, kbg.

[Kriegsspiel]

It turns out the female that assaulted the MAGA-hat wearing guy in a restaurant was detained by ICE because she's an illegal alien.

Self-pwn.

[boglerdude]

To what extent is the US the cause of those problems

[dualstow]

Interesting stuff, Kbg. Thank you.

[Kriegsspiel]

House Democrats exploded in recriminations Thursday over moderates bucking the party, with liberal Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez threatening to put those voting with Republicans “on a list” for a primary challenge.

In a closed-door session, a frustrated Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) lashed out at about two dozen moderates and pressured them to get on board. “We are either a team or we’re not, and we have to make that decision,” Pelosi said, according to two people present but not authorized to discuss the remarks publicly.

But Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.), the unquestioned media superstar of the freshman class, upped the ante, admonishing the moderates and indicating she would help liberal activists unseat them in the 2020 election.

Corbin Trent, a spokesman for Ocasio-Cortez, said she told her colleagues that Democrats who side with Republicans “are putting themselves on a list.” link

[jacksonM]

House Democrats exploded in recriminations Thursday over moderates bucking the party, with liberal Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez threatening to put those voting with Republicans “on a list” for a primary challenge.

In a closed-door session, a frustrated Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) lashed out at about two dozen moderates and pressured them to get on board. “We are either a team or we’re not, and we have to make that decision,” Pelosi said, according to two people present but not authorized to discuss the remarks publicly.

But Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.), the unquestioned media superstar of the freshman class, upped the ante, admonishing the moderates and indicating she would help liberal activists unseat them in the 2020 election.

Corbin Trent, a spokesman for Ocasio-Cortez, said she told her colleagues that Democrats who side with Republicans “are putting themselves on a list.” link

Well, you must have heard AOC say that when it came to climate change she's now "The Boss" because her views on the subject are the only right ones.

Pretty scary for America if her self-evaluation turns out to be true and people keep voting for her.

This woman is a pure totalitarian.

[Kriegsspiel]

A popular gay rights activist was charged on Monday with first-degree arson after an FBI investigation led authorities to believe he set fire to his own house in an elaborate hoax meant to look like a hate crime.

Nikki Joly lost five pets when his Michigan house burned to the ground in 2017. . .

Considering Joly’s status in the community, the FBI initially treated the fire as a hate crime. But the more they pounded the pavement, the more the trail led right back to Joly. . .

Barbara Shelton and Bobby James — two officials from St. Johns United Church of Christ, home of the Jackson Pride Center, where Joly spent much of his time volunteering — have proposed a theory to the police.

They told authorities that Joly was annoyed that the gay rights controversy wasn’t receiving much attention once the anti-discrimination law he’d fought for had been passed. They said he was also disappointed in the lack of fanfare over the gay rights parade he’d helped organize, according to a police report. link

We need to have a national conversation about sociopathic homosexuals.

[jacksonM]

I don't know about anybody else but I'm finding it very entertaining watching Nancy Pelosi and other Democratic leaders being forced to deal with the new upstart female congresswomen - specifically AOC, Omar, and that other Muslim woman who said "impeach the mf'er" on the day she was sworn in.

As we speak, they are in the process of drafting some kind of resolution condemning antisemitism while not giving offense to anyone else in the process. I would just love to be allowed to listen in on the discussions taking place. I've heard they have already floated the idea of condemning Islamophobia and xenophobia in the same resolution. I'm thinking they will just have to end up with a resolution condemning all forms of "hate" and be done with it. The only congressperson I've ever known who would vote against such a resolution is Ron Paul on the principle that it wasn't worth the money it was going to cost to print it.

Listening to the people on TV coming to the defense of Omar for her remarks about Israel I am somewhat sympathetic to the idea that criticizing the nation of Israel and questioning its influence on U.S. policy is not the same thing as antisemitism. The only problem is, the criticism might go over much better if it wasn't coming from someone who was praying for Allah to wipe the whole country off the map.

[dualstow]

Listening to the people on TV coming to the defense of Omar for her remarks about Israel I am somewhat sympathetic to the idea that criticizing the nation of Israel and questioning its influence on U.S. policy is not the same thing as antisemitism. The only problem is, the criticism might go over much better if it wasn't coming from someone who was praying for Allah to wipe the whole country off the map.

Of course you'll be branded a racist for that last line. My answer to that would be, ok, I'm a racist, just this once.

It's a complicated sitch, isn't it? The idea that the U.S is giving too much $ to Israel is...how many decades old? It's a popular opinion. Extending that, the notion that Israel influences U.S. policy (as opposed to the other way around) is smaller, but still not unheard of. I would say it's a common opinion, and perhaps it's even gaining.

The dual loyalty charge is very different from the accusation that a politician is just an amoral mercenary in AIPAC's pocket, and different again from the idea that politician might be obsessed with Israel because of a belief in Christian fundamentalism. The dual loyalty charge is creepy.

I happened to be reading this when you posted:
'Ilhan Omar Shouldn’t Get a Pass'
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... trump.html

[dualstow]

David Duke is singing Omar's praises on his official website. Ok then.

[jacksonM]

Listening to the people on TV coming to the defense of Omar for her remarks about Israel I am somewhat sympathetic to the idea that criticizing the nation of Israel and questioning its influence on U.S. policy is not the same thing as antisemitism. The only problem is, the criticism might go over much better if it wasn't coming from someone who was praying for Allah to wipe the whole country off the map.

Of course you'll be branded a racist for that last line. My answer to that would be, ok, I'm a racist, just this once.

It's a complicated sitch, isn't it? The idea that the U.S is giving too much $ to Israel is...how many decades old? It's a popular opinion. Extending that, the notion that Israel influences U.S. policy (as opposed to the other way around) is smaller, but still not unheard of. I would say it's a common opinion, and perhaps it's even gaining.

The dual loyalty charge is very different from the accusation that a politician is just an amoral mercenary in AIPAC's pocket, and different again from the idea that politician might be obsessed with Israel because of a belief in Christian fundamentalism. The dual loyalty charge is creepy.

I happened to be reading this when you posted:
'Ilhan Omar Shouldn’t Get a Pass'
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... trump.html

Interesting piece but I would like a better definition of what is meant by "Trumpism" before condemning it along with all of those other nasty things.

I don't see where the Israel question has much at all to do with race but I think it does have a lot to do with religion.

[jacksonM]

David Duke is singing Omar's praises on his official website. Ok then.

He also liked Trump and Trump was roundly condemned for it. Somehow I don't think the same thing will happen with Omar.

[stuper1]

Bringing out David Duke is like bringing out Hitler. I know next to nothing about the guy, but I suspect that his biggest crime is that he likes white culture. If somebody likes black culture or Somali culture or Mexican culture or any other culture, it's AOK. But as soon as somebody likes white culture, it's the crime of the century.

Sure I get it, we have a bad history of racism in this country. Here's the thing though: the whole world has a bad history of racism, not just white people. Slavery was practiced throughout the world. Many of the people sold into slavery were sold by other black people in Africa.

One thing that never gets mentioned is that it was white people who ENDED slavery. When white people were ENDING slavery, the practice was still widespread in many non-white parts of the world.

[jacksonM]

Bringing out David Duke is like bringing out Hitler. I know next to nothing about the guy, but I suspect that his biggest crime is that he likes white culture. If somebody likes black culture or Somali culture or Mexican culture or any other culture, it's AOK. But as soon as somebody likes white culture, it's the crime of the century.

Sure I get it, we have a bad history of racism in this country. Here's the thing though: the whole world has a bad history of racism, not just white people. Slavery was practiced throughout the world. Many of the people sold into slavery were sold by other black people in Africa.

One thing that never gets mentioned is that it was white people who ENDED slavery. When white people were ENDING slavery, the practice was still widespread in many non-white parts of the world.

It would be a very tricky political play but I wonder if/when some Republican is going to start playing the same race-card game as the other side and start denouncing the anti-Caucasian racism and rhetoric which is so clearly on display in this country. The only person I know so far who is willing to touch on the subject is Tucker Carlson on Fox News but I wouldn't consider him as necessarily a Republican or even a conservative. Not really sure what he is at this point but he says a lot things that need saying.

[dualstow]

Stuper, you’re absolutely right: you know nothing about him. When he was arrested by the Czechs and expelled from Italy, it wasn’t for “liking white culture.” So your suspicion that this was his greatest crime: not good.
Anyway, I’m sure you and I can peacefully coexist here (that’s my way of telling the mods that I’m not going to be a bombastic dick, come what may), I just hope you’ll do your own due diligence.

[stuper1]

Actually I won't do my own due diligence. I couldn't care less about the guy. If he's not good enough for the Czechs and the Italians, then he's not good enough for me.

All I know is that people like to use his name as if it's going to explode or something. As far as I know, he's just a guy with some strong opinions at this point. He has a First Amendment right to say whatever he likes as long as he isn't inciting violence.

[dualstow]

Dude. He has been arrested for inciting violence. It is true that he makes a point of saying he won’t tolerate violence at his rallies - that’s how he stays out of trouble, these days.

[Kriegsspiel]

I read a book a long time ago, The Israeli Lobby, that argued it wasn't in ISRAEL'S best interest for us to give them so much aid either, because it makes their neighbors, who don't, hate them that much more and they'll never become a real boy. Or something like that. Good book, it's just been a long time.

Israel isn't even a good ally to us (Jonathan Pollard). I'm pretty sure most of the technology to implement the PATRIOT Act and other snooping was developed in Israel too. As we've seen with the Chinese microchips and Hauwei and all that, getting a bunch of critical tech from people who spy on you has risks. Another argument from the book was that they aren't a good military ally either, because they can't proxy for us because it's a PR nightmare.

RE David Duke

dualstow, wikipedia says that he was there to promote a book, and the Czech government said there was no evidence he committed any crime there, so what are you referencing?

He started his own branch of the KKK. So we ended slavery here a couple centuries ago, but I don't think David Duke would have been on that side of the fight

[dualstow]

I read a book a long time ago, The Israeli Lobby, that argued it wasn't in ISRAEL'S best interest for us to give them so much aid either,

I think that’s the Mearsheimer/Walt 2007 book, right?

Israel isn't even a good ally to us (Jonathan Pollard).

Jesus, don’t you want to lead with the USS Liberty? Everyone’s favorite. Seriously, all nations spy on each other. Merkel busted us a few years ago, and then didn’t some friendly country bust Germany?
Not that I’m condoning it. And I’m glad Pollard was locked up. Should’ve stayed locked up.

As we've seen with the Chinese microchips and Hauwei and all that, getting a bunch of critical tech from people who spy on you has risks.

Certainly true, self-evident, although China is a tough comparison.

Another argument from the book was that they aren't a good military ally either, because they can't proxy for us because it's a PR nightmare.

We’re getting cozy with KSA. Maybe one day Israel will outlive their geostrategical use to us, but I can’t imagine that will happen soon.

RE David Duke

dualstow, wikipedia says that he was there to promote a book, and the Czech government said there was no evidence he committed any crime there, so what are you referencing?

New Orleans, I believe, is where something finally stuck legally — and you can say it’s a technicality, but as far as I know the main incitement was when he led the KKKK (four K’s). Mentioned by you below. I don’t recall him ever being taken to jail for the being in the klan. My memory is that he publicly says “no violence at my rallies” but I don’t think he started out that way simply because he doesn’t have a long rap sheet.
If I can find something in print, I’llphotograph it and post it.

As for Czech, he was arrested, and asked to leave - you can see the same text - because Neonazis were going to attend. Guess they didn’t give him a chance . But I didn’t mean to imply that *the* incitement arrest was in Czech. I’m saying he was arrested, and it wasn’t for “liking white culture.” Why is this guy banned and/or booted from so many places if his greatest crime is appreciation?

He started his own branch of the KKK. So we ended slavery here a couple centuries ago, but I don't think David Duke would have been on that side of the fight

I guess that last line is for stuper.
Funny how black people don’t come up to us, embrace us and thank us for ending slavery.

It’s also interesting to note that he defrauded his own followers. While this has nothing to do with violence, and while the fact that it’s a felony is beside the point, I find it interesting that someone who makes his living telling the world that Jews are parasites ripped off his own followers. He served time for that.

Here he is showing his appreciation for candlelight. https://web.archive.org/web/20060829200 ... erry01.jpg