School Shootings

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moda0306
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Re: School Shootings

Post by moda0306 » Sun May 27, 2018 8:25 am

Maddy wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:03 am
Moda, I've never been anything but completely forthcoming about my social and political views. The implication that you've somehow "outed" me as a conservative is bizarre. Your complaint, in fact, is that you are tired of hearing my thoughts about modern liberalism.

It seems that you're bent on finding an unacceptable partisan political motivation behind everything I say. I referred to The Great Leveling in the public educational system--a phenomenon that elicits different reactions from each side of the political aisle but the existence of which cannot be denied--and off you went. You then offered a previous comment of mine (in which I made the association between bullying in schools and the progressive educational system) as proof that my questioning of the four-point-plus GPA scale had an insidious political motivation. Interestingly, my GPA comment could just have easily been interpreted (as it apparently was by Pugchief), as expressing skepticism that the stellar GPAs being earned by the highest-achieving students represented a form of grade inflation that were not truly earned.

In this case, it appears that you were primed and ready to blow a cork.

In the end, it doesn't matter to me one iota whether my comments are classified as "political commentary," "social commentary," or "other." But it does bother me when you resort to intellectual dishonesty to make your point. Or when you spend most of your time nipping at the heels of individual posters for the perceived flaws in their views rather than making substantive contributions of your own.

So why is what I think so all-fire important to you? Is anybody stopping you from expressing your point of view?
I didn't "blow a cork" Maddy. Stick to the issue. You have been forthcoming about your politics... until I pointed out the very one-sided and ubiquitous nature of this political theory and you proceeded to pretend that there was nothing political said at all and I was projecting and being a hypocrite or something.

You haven't even addressed that you were completely full of it claiming that you weren't being political. You just moved on. Which is fine, I suppose, if you weren't continuing to lean on this supposed claim that I "blew up" at you or something. If you don't want to get called out for your completely delusional take on reality, don't share it on a public forum.
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Maddy
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Maddy » Sun May 27, 2018 9:19 am

Desert, I agree with many of your observations about the demonization of opposing political viewpoints. However, political movements have lives of their own and have been repeatedly used by governments as instruments of control because the vast majority of people are more interested in identifying with a team than thinking through the issues on their own. They can be thrown the bone du jour and for the most part are quite content.

I am a firm believer that the Great Political Divide furthers the continuity of government by assuring that no matter which political party is in power, or how many times the people vote the bastards out, nothing really changes. Meanwhile, the people remain distracted from the issues that really matter.

But I also believe that not all political movements are equal, and that there are certain political movements that uniquely serve the interests of the political establishment by fomenting discord and by serving up a constant array of insignificant themes and causes that keep people too preoccupied with trivia to notice what's really going on. And modern liberalism has been right out there leading the charge, more concerned about the personal pronouns we're using and about recalcitrant cake-bakers than about anything that really matters, and willing to trade off our most important civil liberties for short-term political and social gains.

I simply don't buy the "equivalence" argument. There may be no meaningful ideological difference between the establishment leaders of the Left and Right, but I do see a very profound difference when it comes to the willingness of the people to line up behind them. Namely, I don't see even a hint of discontent from the vast majority of left-leaning citizens with the political platform or candidates being offered up by their leaders. And I have certainly seen no mass exodus from the Left comparable to the anti-establishment revolt of the Right in the 2016 election.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by technovelist » Tue May 29, 2018 8:11 pm

Maddy wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 9:19 am
Desert, I agree with many of your observations about the demonization of opposing political viewpoints. However, political movements have lives of their own and have been repeatedly used by governments as instruments of control because the vast majority of people are more interested in identifying with a team than thinking through the issues on their own. They can be thrown the bone du jour and for the most part are quite content.

I am a firm believer that the Great Political Divide furthers the continuity of government by assuring that no matter which political party is in power, or how many times the people vote the bastards out, nothing really changes. Meanwhile, the people remain distracted from the issues that really matter.

But I also believe that not all political movements are equal, and that there are certain political movements that uniquely serve the interests of the political establishment by fomenting discord and by serving up a constant array of insignificant themes and causes that keep people too preoccupied with trivia to notice what's really going on. And modern liberalism has been right out there leading the charge, more concerned about the personal pronouns we're using and about recalcitrant cake-bakers than about anything that really matters, and willing to trade off our most important civil liberties for short-term political and social gains.

I simply don't buy the "equivalence" argument. There may be no meaningful ideological difference between the establishment leaders of the Left and Right, but I do see a very profound difference when it comes to the willingness of the people to line up behind them. Namely, I don't see even a hint of discontent from the vast majority of left-leaning citizens with the political platform or candidates being offered up by their leaders. And I have certainly seen no mass exodus from the Left comparable to the anti-establishment revolt of the Right in the 2016 election.
Apparently the left is going to run on a platform similar to this for the 2018 midterms:

1. Raise taxes.
2. MS-13 members have a spark of the divine, but Trump is literally Hitler!!!
3. Impeach Trump for something unspecified but VERY SERIOUS!
4. Nuclear war with North Korea.
5. It's perfectly normal for the FBI to insert spies in an opposing candidate's campaign.
6. Did I mention that Trump is LITERALLY HITLER??? And cops are fascists but they should be the only ones with guns!

Sounds like a winning plan to me. What do you think?
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Kriegsspiel
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:25 am

pugchief wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:51 am
Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:59 am
This is an aside, but I'm curious how so many kids these days are boasting grade point averages that exceed 4.0. In my day, that was mathematically impossible.
Are you saying this is the equivalent of a 'participation trophy' in its feel-good emotion? Because it is any thing but, IMO. It rewards kids in the Honors and AP classes with extra 'points' for taking harder classes and still earning A's.
4.0+ GPAs may not be a participation trophy, but...
Four professors from Otterbein University argue in a recent academic journal article that "grading practices" may be at least partly responsible for the lack of women in STEM fields.

Based on surveys of 828 STEM students, the professors conclude that female students believe they work harder than their male classmates for similar grades, indicating that "women's higher perceived effort levels are not rewarded."
they propose that “science educators could redistribute grades more akin to non-STEM disciplines to increase STEM retention.”

The professors conclude their study by suggesting that “faculty development addressing alterations in [grade] assessment practices could be fruitful to help maintain students in STEM disciplines.”
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=10980
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Cortopassi
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:50 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:25 am
pugchief wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:51 am
Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:59 am
This is an aside, but I'm curious how so many kids these days are boasting grade point averages that exceed 4.0. In my day, that was mathematically impossible.
Are you saying this is the equivalent of a 'participation trophy' in its feel-good emotion? Because it is any thing but, IMO. It rewards kids in the Honors and AP classes with extra 'points' for taking harder classes and still earning A's.
4.0+ GPAs may not be a participation trophy, but...
Four professors from Otterbein University argue in a recent academic journal article that "grading practices" may be at least partly responsible for the lack of women in STEM fields.

Based on surveys of 828 STEM students, the professors conclude that female students believe they work harder than their male classmates for similar grades, indicating that "women's higher perceived effort levels are not rewarded."
they propose that “science educators could redistribute grades more akin to non-STEM disciplines to increase STEM retention.”

The professors conclude their study by suggesting that “faculty development addressing alterations in [grade] assessment practices could be fruitful to help maintain students in STEM disciplines.”
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=10980
I don't understand this at all esp. for STEM classes. There generally can be no discrimination. Math, science and engineering tests and homework in STEM are basically black and white, so how can there be?
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Kriegsspiel
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:58 am

Just let it wash over you, in a cool wave.

Speaking of black and white (kinda)...
A new plan to change the way students are admitted to New York’s elite public high schools is infuriating members of some Asian communities who feel they will be pushed aside in the drive to admit more than a handful of black and Latino students.

But in a series of forceful statements on Tuesday, Richard A. Carranza, the schools chancellor, offered a blunt rebuttal to their claims. “I just don’t buy into the narrative that any one ethnic group owns admission to these schools,” he said on Fox 5 New York.

...

“The test is the most unbiased way to get into a school,” said Peter Koo, a city councilman whose district includes Flushing, Queens, on Tuesday. “It doesn’t require an interview. It doesn’t require a résumé. It doesn’t even require connections. The mayor’s son just graduated from Brooklyn Tech and got into Yale. Now he wants to stop this and build a barrier to Asian-Americans — especially our children.”

The schools, which admit students based on a single test, look starkly different from the school system overall. While black and Hispanic students represent nearly 70 percent of public school students, they make up just 10 percent of students at the specialized high schools, a vast underrepresentation that has long been considered an injustice and a symbol of the city’s extreme school segregation.



https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/05/nyre ... v=top-news
;)
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Cortopassi
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:36 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:58 am
Just let it wash over you, in a cool wave.

Speaking of black and white (kinda)...
A new plan to change the way students are admitted to New York’s elite public high schools is infuriating members of some Asian communities who feel they will be pushed aside in the drive to admit more than a handful of black and Latino students.

But in a series of forceful statements on Tuesday, Richard A. Carranza, the schools chancellor, offered a blunt rebuttal to their claims. “I just don’t buy into the narrative that any one ethnic group owns admission to these schools,” he said on Fox 5 New York.

...

“The test is the most unbiased way to get into a school,” said Peter Koo, a city councilman whose district includes Flushing, Queens, on Tuesday. “It doesn’t require an interview. It doesn’t require a résumé. It doesn’t even require connections. The mayor’s son just graduated from Brooklyn Tech and got into Yale. Now he wants to stop this and build a barrier to Asian-Americans — especially our children.”

The schools, which admit students based on a single test, look starkly different from the school system overall. While black and Hispanic students represent nearly 70 percent of public school students, they make up just 10 percent of students at the specialized high schools, a vast underrepresentation that has long been considered an injustice and a symbol of the city’s extreme school segregation.



https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/05/nyre ... v=top-news
;)
We probably disagree a little bit here. In one case, the women have already made it into college, I am assuming, and are taking the same tests and coursework as the males. In this single test to get into high schools situation, there are many other factors at play, home life, quality of elementary schools, etc, that a 14 year old has little control of.

I happen to be privileged to live in a great (and expensive) school district, so the quality of education is not a concern. If I lived somewhere where it was a problem and I saw no clear way out, well, that would suck.
-------------
I re-read the STEM article, and didn't like what I read! Things like:

“Does a course grade primarily reward conceptual understanding and problem-solving ability, or does it primarily reward hard work, reflected in course attendance, submission of assignments on time, etc., or some mixture of the two?”

and

“I think there are different ways to work on that issue, such as keeping feedback on student work but reducing the frequency that work is given an official grade,” Young said.

Ok, yeah, sure. Just like in 1st grade where 1/3 of your points on homework was putting your name in the right spot on the page...Once you've gotten to college you're an adult and if you can't keep up, for whatever reason, might be time to explore a different major.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by pugchief » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:37 am

The STEM article is about the left's attempt to turn everything, everywhere, into Affirmative Action. Nothing more. Talent, intelligence and results just don't matter anymore. All that counts is that you are not male and not white or Asian.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by technovelist » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:26 pm

pugchief wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:37 am
The STEM article is about the left's attempt to turn everything, everywhere, into Affirmative Action. Nothing more. Talent, intelligence and results just don't matter anymore. All that counts is that you are not male and not white or Asian.
And especially not an Ashkenazi! They have had a long enough period of dominating the Nobel science prizes. It's time for another ethnic group to win!
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:57 am

The STEM article was not about race, the second one was.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by sophie » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:58 am

Wow, I just read that STEM article. I can't even count the ways in which I find it offensive.

It ignores the fact that women are under-represented in STEM from day 1 of freshman year. Unless something fundamental about college has changed, grades don't start happening until after that. Slight cause and effect problem there. It then says that women are underperforming whiners, and the only way to fix it is to artificially inflate their grades. I suspect my research coordinators, postbacc research assistant, and postdoctoral fellow (all women) would take offense at the prospect of grade inflation diluting their achievements and making their undergraduate records suspect.

Also before you ask: I didn't pick these women for my lab based on gender. They were all rock star candidates and that was it. I've had plenty of male students, postdocs etc in the past, and two men in the lab currently.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by pugchief » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:42 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:57 am
The STEM article was not about race, the second one was.
I meant the new 'affirmative action' as it applies to non-whitemales and non-Asianmales [ooh, new words!] not Affirmative Action the actual program. Or in this case, gender based preference.
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