School Shootings

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moda0306
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Re: School Shootings

Post by moda0306 » Fri May 25, 2018 12:40 pm

Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 10:38 am
Mountaineer wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 10:30 am
Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 9:57 am

I've just never heard of such a thing. Back when I was in school, the nature and level of the class stood on its own. An "A" earned in an upper level or hard science class was naturally more meaningful to a college or potential employer than an "A" earned in a "survey" or "feel good" class. The transcript and field of study were thought to speak for themselves.
Ditto. My High School graded on the percentage scale. Highest possible was 100% which required 100% on all tests and homework, and perfect attendance in the specified class. College was on the 4.0 maximum scale.
I suppose that due to The Great Leveling, there's been a need for ever more creative ways to distinguish those students who truly have achieved something above and beyond.
Odd how for you every problem boils down to "DAMNED LIBRULS!"

To the bullying topic...

I remember the kids that bullied others in school. Most of them are Trumpers if FB is an indicator. I also remember the kindest folks. Most of them are libruls.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Maddy » Fri May 25, 2018 12:53 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:40 pm
Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 10:38 am
Mountaineer wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 10:30 am


Ditto. My High School graded on the percentage scale. Highest possible was 100% which required 100% on all tests and homework, and perfect attendance in the specified class. College was on the 4.0 maximum scale.
I suppose that due to The Great Leveling, there's been a need for ever more creative ways to distinguish those students who truly have achieved something above and beyond.
Odd how for you every problem boils down to "DAMNED LIBRULS!"

To the bullying topic...

I remember the kids that bullied others in school. Most of them are Trumpers if FB is an indicator. I also remember the kindest folks. Most of them are libruls.
Wow, that's a telling post! Seems to me it's YOU, Moda, who just took the shoe and wore it.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by moda0306 » Fri May 25, 2018 12:56 pm

Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:53 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:40 pm
Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 10:38 am


I suppose that due to The Great Leveling, there's been a need for ever more creative ways to distinguish those students who truly have achieved something above and beyond.
Odd how for you every problem boils down to "DAMNED LIBRULS!"

To the bullying topic...

I remember the kids that bullied others in school. Most of them are Trumpers if FB is an indicator. I also remember the kindest folks. Most of them are libruls.
Wow, that's a telling post! Seems to me it's YOU, Moda, who just took the shoe and wore it.
Are you saying I'm engaging in bullying with that post?

Or are you saying that I'm saying I'm doing what I'm accusing you of but labeling conservatives as the culprit?
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Re: School Shootings

Post by stuper1 » Fri May 25, 2018 1:12 pm

There are kind people and rotten people on all points of the political spectrum.

The thing that switched me from being a liberal to a conservative was basically realizing the wisdom in the old story about giving a man a fish to feed him for a day or teaching him to fish to feed him for a lifetime. To me, big government is more about giving out fishes each day, while smaller government is more about helping people realize that they need to learn how to fish.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Maddy » Fri May 25, 2018 2:02 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:56 pm
Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:53 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:40 pm


Odd how for you every problem boils down to "DAMNED LIBRULS!"

To the bullying topic...

I remember the kids that bullied others in school. Most of them are Trumpers if FB is an indicator. I also remember the kindest folks. Most of them are libruls.
Wow, that's a telling post! Seems to me it's YOU, Moda, who just took the shoe and wore it.
Are you saying I'm engaging in bullying with that post?

Or are you saying that I'm saying I'm doing what I'm accusing you of but labeling conservatives as the culprit?
Well, first of all, I didn't say, or even imply, anything about "LIBRULS." That the public school system has been the focus of the sweeping social experiment I termed "The Great Leveling" is wholly beyond dispute. Although people may disagree about the wisdom of that effort, there isn't any doubt about the fact that the public system has gone out of its way to close the gap between high and low-achieving students, and that this effort has impaired the objectivity and usefulness of grading.

It is you who made the purely gratuitous association between that fact and liberalism. As it happens, I don't disagree with that attribution inasmuch as public education has unquestionably been the playfield of left-leaning (and in many instances FAR-left-leaning) academics with an indisputably political agenda. However, nothing in my post (or this thread) has anything to do with politics, so your kneejerk reaction said a lot more about your prejudices than mine. And then for you to make the startling, and nearly instantaneous, leap to Trumpism, and the connection between bullying and Trumpism. . . Well, I think this is what they mean by "hoist on your own petard."

P.S. You might have just as easily have interpreted my comment as expressing skepticism of the achievements of the four-point-plussers, as PugChief apparently did. One thing I still can't figure out, though: Would that have made me a liberal?
Last edited by Maddy on Fri May 25, 2018 2:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by hardlawjockey » Fri May 25, 2018 2:38 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:40 pm
Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 10:38 am
Mountaineer wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 10:30 am


Ditto. My High School graded on the percentage scale. Highest possible was 100% which required 100% on all tests and homework, and perfect attendance in the specified class. College was on the 4.0 maximum scale.
I suppose that due to The Great Leveling, there's been a need for ever more creative ways to distinguish those students who truly have achieved something above and beyond.
Odd how for you every problem boils down to "DAMNED LIBRULS!"

To the bullying topic...

I remember the kids that bullied others in school. Most of them are Trumpers if FB is an indicator. I also remember the kindest folks. Most of them are libruls.
I'm mostly a conservative leaning libertarian, maybe a paleo-conservative in the Pat Buchanan mold, but I completely get what you are saying about the ranting against "DAMNED LBRULS". "LIBRUL" views do strike a discordant note within me so I mostly watch Foxnews but the other night I went to bed after smoking some pot which I've just gotten in the habit of after a long abstention and Hannity was on television in the living room. When you are high the guy is absolutely hilarious. If you've never tried it, I highly recommend it. Don't think I've laughed so uncontrollably in a long time. Thought I would crack a rib. Talk about a one trick pony!

There is another guy who is running for congress, apparently somewhere close to where I live, and apparently he has bought up all of the Youtube advertising time money can afford. The ad shows him to be a conservative with STRONG FAMILY VALUES, a humble belief in God (the ad shows his whole family at a picnic table, all bowing their heads in prayer to the almighty), and ready to go to Washington to take on the "LIBRUL establishment". And under no circumstances will he EVER back down from what he truly believes in.

Eventually you realize that all these clowns are nothing more than a joke.

As for libruls being the kind ones - that's another joke, sorry to say. Most of the really kind people I know, you really can't tell much about their politics.
Last edited by hardlawjockey on Fri May 25, 2018 3:05 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by moda0306 » Fri May 25, 2018 2:55 pm

Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 2:02 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:56 pm
Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:53 pm


Wow, that's a telling post! Seems to me it's YOU, Moda, who just took the shoe and wore it.
Are you saying I'm engaging in bullying with that post?

Or are you saying that I'm saying I'm doing what I'm accusing you of but labeling conservatives as the culprit?
Well, first of all, I didn't say, or even imply, anything about "LIBRULS." That the public school system has been the focus of the sweeping social experiment I termed "The Great Leveling" is wholly beyond dispute. Although people may disagree about the wisdom of that effort, there isn't any doubt about the fact that the public system has gone out of its way to close the gap between high and low-achieving students, and that this effort has impaired the objectivity and usefulness of grading.

It is you who made the purely gratuitous association between that fact and liberalism. As it happens, I don't disagree with that attribution inasmuch as public education has unquestionably been the playfield of left-leaning (and in many instances FAR-left-leaning) academics with an indisputably political agenda. However, nothing in my post (or this thread) has anything to do with politics, so your kneejerk reaction said a lot more about your prejudices than mine. And then for you to make the startling, and nearly instantaneous, leap to Trumpism, and the connection between bullying and Trumpism. . . Well, I think this is what they mean by "hoist on your own petard."
"The progressive social engineers have created a generation of ferals."

Not political? What are you talking about?

My reaction wasn't knee-jerk. It was based in my basic observation that a huge number of your posts blame $hit going wrong because "the left" these days is out of control. One other big post I mostly agreed with was on bullying and how awful it is and you gave some very chilling examples. I was retorting to your very clear and constant political narrative with a pretty simple observation... that most of the bullies I knew as a kid (and now that I think of it, most of the ones I know now) tend to lean right... not left. And that most of the kindest kids grew up to be liberals. Trump is our president and subject of much of our political debate so yeah... I made the "leap" from political leanings to Trump. I guess I'll make another leap and say that the liberal friends I have mostly supported Clinton.

I agree with stuper though... there's @ssholes all over the spectrum. But bullying can hardly be labelled a "progressive social engineer" problem if it's more-heavily made-up of folks who lean right or end up leaning right as adults. Of course, we can't analyze statistics on this, so I offered my observation in-lieu of it.

But please spare me the melodrama about a political observation after your very-clearly political commentary and almost constant incessant hand-wringing about how awful "the left" is. There's plenty of awful in both parties and all wings of political thought. It's a bit rich to blame bullying on "progressive social engineers," claim you weren't being political, and then say with a straight face that I'm making "knee-jerk leaps" by observing that most bullies appear to me to be conservative.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by moda0306 » Fri May 25, 2018 3:00 pm

hardlawjockey wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 2:38 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:40 pm
Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 10:38 am


I suppose that due to The Great Leveling, there's been a need for ever more creative ways to distinguish those students who truly have achieved something above and beyond.
Odd how for you every problem boils down to "DAMNED LIBRULS!"

To the bullying topic...

I remember the kids that bullied others in school. Most of them are Trumpers if FB is an indicator. I also remember the kindest folks. Most of them are libruls.
I'm mostly a conservative leaning libertarian, maybe a paleo-conservative in the Pat Buchanan mold, but I completely get what you are saying about the ranting against "DAMNED LBRULS". "LIBRUL" views do strike a discordant note within me so I mostly watch Foxnews but the other night I went to bed after smoking some pot which I've just gotten in the habit of after a long abstention and Hannity was on television in the living room at the time. When you are high the guy is absolutely hilarious. If you've never tried it, I highly recommend it. Don't think I've laughed so uncontrollably in a long time. Thought I would crack a rib. Talk about a one trick pony!

There is another guy who is running for congress, apparently somewhere close to where I live, and apparently he has bought up all of the Youtube advertising time money can afford. The ad shows him to be a conservative with strong family values, belief in God, and ready to go to Washington to take on the "LIBRUL establishment". And under no circumstances will he EVER back down from what he truly believes in.

Eventually you realize these clowns are nothing more than a joke.

As for libruls being the kind ones - that's another joke, sorry to say. Most of the really kind people I know, you really can't tell much about their politics.
That last part is pretty true. Most of the kindest people I know don't care for politics.

I wasn't trying to make nearly the pointed "gotcha" point that it may have seemed so much as countering Maddy's incessant Hannitesque complaining about "the left" being responsible for everything wrong with America.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Maddy » Sat May 26, 2018 8:49 am

Moda, is it really necessary for you to characterize my views in such derogatory, simplistic terms? Is it possible that the consistency in my views concerning the modern social order and the evolution of political movements represents a principled stance as opposed to a mindless allegiance to a redneck pro-Trumpian agenda?

As a matter of fact, I do firmly believe that a large number of the social problems we're discussing on this forum are the result and handiwork of modern liberalism, and that it was designed that way. The "progressive" social movement that has dominated the culture of this country since the early sixties had its genesis in the American Communist Party, whose principal, unabashed objective was the complete transformation of society and the ushering in of a global totalitarian regime. Its detailed, step-by-step plan for transforming the culture and eroding the underpinnings of democracy was laid out explicitly in the literature generated by the Party, as was the insidious methodology by which its goals would be achieved. It involved, among other things, the eradication of traditional values and the promotion of a nihilistic ethic that would ultimately lead to a pervasive sense of hopelessness and helplessness, the undermining of the rule of law and the vilification of individual liberties under the guise of "social justice," the promotion of a radical egalitarian world view that would punish those who dared to better themselves, the progressive destruction of the nuclear family and the disruption of traditional social structures, the creation of a permanent underclass dependent on the central government, the fomenting of racial conflict and class warfare, the inducing of a broad narcissistic stupor through the promotion and dissemination of drugs, pornography, advertising, and ultimately technology, and the commandeering of the educational system. Modern liberalism has, by and large, embraced each and every one of these objectives and in fact has become the principal political vehicle through which the globalists continue to pursue the complete social transformation that was set in motion some 80 years ago.

So, yes, I do see modern liberalism as the source of a good number of today's social problems. It was designed to be.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Maddy » Sat May 26, 2018 12:02 pm

The sad part, in my view, is that they've hoodwinked an entire generation of young people who are out there doing their bidding. And that the progressives who are old enough to know what's going on have traded their principles for a seat at the table. I'm old and am living the near-perfect life on a mountaintop, so what do I care if they're willing to accept speech codes and warrantless raids on their attorneys' offices in exchange for the promise of free college and sex without consequences? Except that the sociology of it all has been one of the most fascinating things I've watched during my lifetime.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by stuper1 » Sat May 26, 2018 8:10 pm

Maddy wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 8:49 am
Moda, is it really necessary for you to characterize my views in such derogatory, simplistic terms? Is it possible that the consistency in my views concerning the modern social order and the evolution of political movements represents a principled stance as opposed to a mindless allegiance to a redneck pro-Trumpian agenda?

As a matter of fact, I do firmly believe that a large number of the social problems we're discussing on this forum are the result and handiwork of modern liberalism, and that it was designed that way. The "progressive" social movement that has dominated the culture of this country since the early sixties had its genesis in the American Communist Party, whose principal, unabashed objective was the complete transformation of society and the ushering in of a global totalitarian regime. Its detailed, step-by-step plan for transforming the culture and eroding the underpinnings of democracy was laid out explicitly in the literature generated by the Party, as was the insidious methodology by which its goals would be achieved. It involved, among other things, the eradication of traditional values and the promotion of a nihilistic ethic that would ultimately lead to a pervasive sense of hopelessness and helplessness, the undermining of the rule of law and the vilification of individual liberties under the guise of "social justice," the promotion of a radical egalitarian world view that would punish those who dared to better themselves, the progressive destruction of the nuclear family and the disruption of traditional social structures, the creation of a permanent underclass dependent on the central government, the fomenting of racial conflict and class warfare, the inducing of a broad narcissistic stupor through the promotion and dissemination of drugs, pornography, advertising, and ultimately technology, and the commandeering of the educational system. Modern liberalism has, by and large, embraced each and every one of these objectives and in fact has become the principal political vehicle through which the globalists continue to pursue the complete social transformation that was set in motion some 80 years ago.

So, yes, I do see modern liberalism as the source of a good number of today's social problems. It was designed to be.
Desert wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 10:53 am
Maddy, I think that's the saddest post I've read on this forum. It must be a pretty miserable way to live, imagining this cabal of communist globalists out to get us all. And to imagine that they are smarter and more powerful than the rest of us ... that would really wear on one's psyche over time.
What's sad is that all of these societal ills that Maddy so aptly described are very real. If you don't think these ills are the result of the cabal, then what would you say caused them? I personally don't know about the cabal stuff, but I do believe that liberalism is definitely to blame.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by moda0306 » Sun May 27, 2018 6:48 am

Maddy wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 8:49 am
Moda, is it really necessary for you to characterize my views in such derogatory, simplistic terms? Is it possible that the consistency in my views concerning the modern social order and the evolution of political movements represents a principled stance as opposed to a mindless allegiance to a redneck pro-Trumpian agenda?

As a matter of fact, I do firmly believe that a large number of the social problems we're discussing on this forum are the result and handiwork of modern liberalism, and that it was designed that way. The "progressive" social movement that has dominated the culture of this country since the early sixties had its genesis in the American Communist Party, whose principal, unabashed objective was the complete transformation of society and the ushering in of a global totalitarian regime. Its detailed, step-by-step plan for transforming the culture and eroding the underpinnings of democracy was laid out explicitly in the literature generated by the Party, as was the insidious methodology by which its goals would be achieved. It involved, among other things, the eradication of traditional values and the promotion of a nihilistic ethic that would ultimately lead to a pervasive sense of hopelessness and helplessness, the undermining of the rule of law and the vilification of individual liberties under the guise of "social justice," the promotion of a radical egalitarian world view that would punish those who dared to better themselves, the progressive destruction of the nuclear family and the disruption of traditional social structures, the creation of a permanent underclass dependent on the central government, the fomenting of racial conflict and class warfare, the inducing of a broad narcissistic stupor through the promotion and dissemination of drugs, pornography, advertising, and ultimately technology, and the commandeering of the educational system. Modern liberalism has, by and large, embraced each and every one of these objectives and in fact has become the principal political vehicle through which the globalists continue to pursue the complete social transformation that was set in motion some 80 years ago.

So, yes, I do see modern liberalism as the source of a good number of today's social problems. It was designed to be.
It is no more necessary for me to describe your views in simplistic, derogatory terms as it is necessary for you to constantly describe almost every issue in those terms.

But in this case it's actually true.

Glad we got over this myth of me making knee-jerk leaps from your points to politics and directly to the point of what your partisan views actually are.

I find it interesting that you think that this conspiracy is one based in leftist communism when if anything is clear (even in some of your acknowledged views) it's international corporatism. I could pick apart the rest of your worldview but it's just not worth it. I've already debated Kshartle on proving morality and you're the "conservative" version of him. What's the saying?... I ain't got time fo that!?
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Maddy » Sun May 27, 2018 8:03 am

Moda, I've never been anything but completely forthcoming about my social and political views. The implication that you've somehow "outed" me as a conservative is bizarre. Your complaint, in fact, is that you are tired of hearing my thoughts about modern liberalism.

It seems that you're bent on finding an unacceptable partisan political motivation behind everything I say. I referred to The Great Leveling in the public educational system--a phenomenon that elicits different reactions from each side of the political aisle but the existence of which cannot be denied--and off you went. You then offered a previous comment of mine (in which I made the association between bullying in schools and the progressive educational system) as proof that my questioning of the four-point-plus GPA scale had an insidious political motivation. Interestingly, my GPA comment could just have easily been interpreted (as it apparently was by Pugchief), as expressing skepticism that the stellar GPAs being earned by the highest-achieving students represented a form of grade inflation that were not truly earned.

In this case, it appears that you were primed and ready to blow a cork.

In the end, it doesn't matter to me one iota whether my comments are classified as "political commentary," "social commentary," or "other." But it does bother me when you resort to intellectual dishonesty to make your point. Or when you spend most of your time nipping at the heels of individual posters for the perceived flaws in their views rather than making substantive contributions of your own.

So why is what I think so all-fire important to you? Is anybody stopping you from expressing your point of view?
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Re: School Shootings

Post by moda0306 » Sun May 27, 2018 8:25 am

Maddy wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:03 am
Moda, I've never been anything but completely forthcoming about my social and political views. The implication that you've somehow "outed" me as a conservative is bizarre. Your complaint, in fact, is that you are tired of hearing my thoughts about modern liberalism.

It seems that you're bent on finding an unacceptable partisan political motivation behind everything I say. I referred to The Great Leveling in the public educational system--a phenomenon that elicits different reactions from each side of the political aisle but the existence of which cannot be denied--and off you went. You then offered a previous comment of mine (in which I made the association between bullying in schools and the progressive educational system) as proof that my questioning of the four-point-plus GPA scale had an insidious political motivation. Interestingly, my GPA comment could just have easily been interpreted (as it apparently was by Pugchief), as expressing skepticism that the stellar GPAs being earned by the highest-achieving students represented a form of grade inflation that were not truly earned.

In this case, it appears that you were primed and ready to blow a cork.

In the end, it doesn't matter to me one iota whether my comments are classified as "political commentary," "social commentary," or "other." But it does bother me when you resort to intellectual dishonesty to make your point. Or when you spend most of your time nipping at the heels of individual posters for the perceived flaws in their views rather than making substantive contributions of your own.

So why is what I think so all-fire important to you? Is anybody stopping you from expressing your point of view?
I didn't "blow a cork" Maddy. Stick to the issue. You have been forthcoming about your politics... until I pointed out the very one-sided and ubiquitous nature of this political theory and you proceeded to pretend that there was nothing political said at all and I was projecting and being a hypocrite or something.

You haven't even addressed that you were completely full of it claiming that you weren't being political. You just moved on. Which is fine, I suppose, if you weren't continuing to lean on this supposed claim that I "blew up" at you or something. If you don't want to get called out for your completely delusional take on reality, don't share it on a public forum.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Maddy » Sun May 27, 2018 9:19 am

Desert, I agree with many of your observations about the demonization of opposing political viewpoints. However, political movements have lives of their own and have been repeatedly used by governments as instruments of control because the vast majority of people are more interested in identifying with a team than thinking through the issues on their own. They can be thrown the bone du jour and for the most part are quite content.

I am a firm believer that the Great Political Divide furthers the continuity of government by assuring that no matter which political party is in power, or how many times the people vote the bastards out, nothing really changes. Meanwhile, the people remain distracted from the issues that really matter.

But I also believe that not all political movements are equal, and that there are certain political movements that uniquely serve the interests of the political establishment by fomenting discord and by serving up a constant array of insignificant themes and causes that keep people too preoccupied with trivia to notice what's really going on. And modern liberalism has been right out there leading the charge, more concerned about the personal pronouns we're using and about recalcitrant cake-bakers than about anything that really matters, and willing to trade off our most important civil liberties for short-term political and social gains.

I simply don't buy the "equivalence" argument. There may be no meaningful ideological difference between the establishment leaders of the Left and Right, but I do see a very profound difference when it comes to the willingness of the people to line up behind them. Namely, I don't see even a hint of discontent from the vast majority of left-leaning citizens with the political platform or candidates being offered up by their leaders. And I have certainly seen no mass exodus from the Left comparable to the anti-establishment revolt of the Right in the 2016 election.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:25 am

MangoMan wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:51 am
Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:59 am
This is an aside, but I'm curious how so many kids these days are boasting grade point averages that exceed 4.0. In my day, that was mathematically impossible.
Are you saying this is the equivalent of a 'participation trophy' in its feel-good emotion? Because it is any thing but, IMO. It rewards kids in the Honors and AP classes with extra 'points' for taking harder classes and still earning A's.
4.0+ GPAs may not be a participation trophy, but...
Four professors from Otterbein University argue in a recent academic journal article that "grading practices" may be at least partly responsible for the lack of women in STEM fields.

Based on surveys of 828 STEM students, the professors conclude that female students believe they work harder than their male classmates for similar grades, indicating that "women's higher perceived effort levels are not rewarded."
they propose that “science educators could redistribute grades more akin to non-STEM disciplines to increase STEM retention.”

The professors conclude their study by suggesting that “faculty development addressing alterations in [grade] assessment practices could be fruitful to help maintain students in STEM disciplines.”
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=10980
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:50 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:25 am
MangoMan wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:51 am
Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:59 am
This is an aside, but I'm curious how so many kids these days are boasting grade point averages that exceed 4.0. In my day, that was mathematically impossible.
Are you saying this is the equivalent of a 'participation trophy' in its feel-good emotion? Because it is any thing but, IMO. It rewards kids in the Honors and AP classes with extra 'points' for taking harder classes and still earning A's.
4.0+ GPAs may not be a participation trophy, but...
Four professors from Otterbein University argue in a recent academic journal article that "grading practices" may be at least partly responsible for the lack of women in STEM fields.

Based on surveys of 828 STEM students, the professors conclude that female students believe they work harder than their male classmates for similar grades, indicating that "women's higher perceived effort levels are not rewarded."
they propose that “science educators could redistribute grades more akin to non-STEM disciplines to increase STEM retention.”

The professors conclude their study by suggesting that “faculty development addressing alterations in [grade] assessment practices could be fruitful to help maintain students in STEM disciplines.”
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=10980
I don't understand this at all esp. for STEM classes. There generally can be no discrimination. Math, science and engineering tests and homework in STEM are basically black and white, so how can there be?
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:58 am

Just let it wash over you, in a cool wave.

Speaking of black and white (kinda)...
A new plan to change the way students are admitted to New York’s elite public high schools is infuriating members of some Asian communities who feel they will be pushed aside in the drive to admit more than a handful of black and Latino students.

But in a series of forceful statements on Tuesday, Richard A. Carranza, the schools chancellor, offered a blunt rebuttal to their claims. “I just don’t buy into the narrative that any one ethnic group owns admission to these schools,” he said on Fox 5 New York.

...

“The test is the most unbiased way to get into a school,” said Peter Koo, a city councilman whose district includes Flushing, Queens, on Tuesday. “It doesn’t require an interview. It doesn’t require a résumé. It doesn’t even require connections. The mayor’s son just graduated from Brooklyn Tech and got into Yale. Now he wants to stop this and build a barrier to Asian-Americans — especially our children.”

The schools, which admit students based on a single test, look starkly different from the school system overall. While black and Hispanic students represent nearly 70 percent of public school students, they make up just 10 percent of students at the specialized high schools, a vast underrepresentation that has long been considered an injustice and a symbol of the city’s extreme school segregation.



https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/05/nyre ... v=top-news
;)
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:36 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:58 am
Just let it wash over you, in a cool wave.

Speaking of black and white (kinda)...
A new plan to change the way students are admitted to New York’s elite public high schools is infuriating members of some Asian communities who feel they will be pushed aside in the drive to admit more than a handful of black and Latino students.

But in a series of forceful statements on Tuesday, Richard A. Carranza, the schools chancellor, offered a blunt rebuttal to their claims. “I just don’t buy into the narrative that any one ethnic group owns admission to these schools,” he said on Fox 5 New York.

...

“The test is the most unbiased way to get into a school,” said Peter Koo, a city councilman whose district includes Flushing, Queens, on Tuesday. “It doesn’t require an interview. It doesn’t require a résumé. It doesn’t even require connections. The mayor’s son just graduated from Brooklyn Tech and got into Yale. Now he wants to stop this and build a barrier to Asian-Americans — especially our children.”

The schools, which admit students based on a single test, look starkly different from the school system overall. While black and Hispanic students represent nearly 70 percent of public school students, they make up just 10 percent of students at the specialized high schools, a vast underrepresentation that has long been considered an injustice and a symbol of the city’s extreme school segregation.



https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/05/nyre ... v=top-news
;)
We probably disagree a little bit here. In one case, the women have already made it into college, I am assuming, and are taking the same tests and coursework as the males. In this single test to get into high schools situation, there are many other factors at play, home life, quality of elementary schools, etc, that a 14 year old has little control of.

I happen to be privileged to live in a great (and expensive) school district, so the quality of education is not a concern. If I lived somewhere where it was a problem and I saw no clear way out, well, that would suck.
-------------
I re-read the STEM article, and didn't like what I read! Things like:

“Does a course grade primarily reward conceptual understanding and problem-solving ability, or does it primarily reward hard work, reflected in course attendance, submission of assignments on time, etc., or some mixture of the two?”

and

“I think there are different ways to work on that issue, such as keeping feedback on student work but reducing the frequency that work is given an official grade,” Young said.

Ok, yeah, sure. Just like in 1st grade where 1/3 of your points on homework was putting your name in the right spot on the page...Once you've gotten to college you're an adult and if you can't keep up, for whatever reason, might be time to explore a different major.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Libertarian666 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:26 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:37 am
The STEM article is about the left's attempt to turn everything, everywhere, into Affirmative Action. Nothing more. Talent, intelligence and results just don't matter anymore. All that counts is that you are not male and not white or Asian.
And especially not an Ashkenazi! They have had a long enough period of dominating the Nobel science prizes. It's time for another ethnic group to win!
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:57 am

The STEM article was not about race, the second one was.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by WiseOne » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:58 am

Wow, I just read that STEM article. I can't even count the ways in which I find it offensive.

It ignores the fact that women are under-represented in STEM from day 1 of freshman year. Unless something fundamental about college has changed, grades don't start happening until after that. Slight cause and effect problem there. It then says that women are underperforming whiners, and the only way to fix it is to artificially inflate their grades. I suspect my research coordinators, postbacc research assistant, and postdoctoral fellow (all women) would take offense at the prospect of grade inflation diluting their achievements and making their undergraduate records suspect.

Also before you ask: I didn't pick these women for my lab based on gender. They were all rock star candidates and that was it. I've had plenty of male students, postdocs etc in the past, and two men in the lab currently.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Libertarian666 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:58 am

WiseOne wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:58 am
Wow, I just read that STEM article. I can't even count the ways in which I find it offensive.

It ignores the fact that women are under-represented in STEM from day 1 of freshman year. Unless something fundamental about college has changed, grades don't start happening until after that. Slight cause and effect problem there. It then says that women are underperforming whiners, and the only way to fix it is to artificially inflate their grades. I suspect my research coordinators, postbacc research assistant, and postdoctoral fellow (all women) would take offense at the prospect of grade inflation diluting their achievements and making their undergraduate records suspect.

Also before you ask: I didn't pick these women for my lab based on gender. They were all rock star candidates and that was it. I've had plenty of male students, postdocs etc in the past, and two men in the lab currently.
Yes, the greatest victims of "affirmative action" are the people in the "favored class" who actually earn their plaudits honestly. I know I would be steamed if I were a woman or non-Asian minority person and everyone assumed that I got where I was via prejudice.

Fortunately, as an Ashkenazi male I don't have to worry about that. ;)
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:53 pm

Here's another good one:
The Daily Caller News Foundation reports that Gutiérrez (left) has received National Science Foundation and Bureau of Educational Research grants to “incorporate diversity into math education” (not bad in and of itself) and encourages teachers to use “creative insubordination” (?).

She has helped teachers “develop their political knowledge,” and encourages them to help their students develop “empathy” for those who answer questions incorrectly because of “different mathematical assumptions.” Math should be a “moral issue” rather than “rational” one, she says.

Gutiérrez has a low rating on RateMyProfessors.com largely because her students either love or hate her instruction. Among the critical reviews, which make clear Gutiérrez has been preaching her math-is-a-verb concept for a while:
She focuses about spreading her ideologies more so than teaching the subjects. Her ideas are not sane; she talks about privilege all the time. These classes are filled too much with her personal ideologies. …

Listened to her at the [National Council of Teachers of Mathematics] Regional. I will disclose that I am of color. Mathematics is a Noun not a Verb. Gutierrez proclaims herself as a scholar who argues mathematics operate as whiteness and I was quite embarrassed that I shared the same intellectual space with someone who is confused about math. Students benefit from truth not fiction. …

Dr. G professes social justice as a constant practice, and stemming from the understanding of other’s circumstances. She repeatedly holds us after class ends, making rude comments to the students who leave, including insulting a student who had to leave class to go to her job.
Positive reviews praise Gutiérrez for revealing that “education and teaching were part of system designed to stop children from questioning” and for “not allowing for bigotry” in class.
https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/48114/
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:09 am

This spring the U.S. Education Department reported that in the 2015-2016 school year, "nearly 240 schools ... reported at least 1 incident involving a school-related shooting." The number is far higher than most other estimates.

But NPR reached out to every one of those schools repeatedly over the course of three months and found that more than two-thirds of these reported incidents never happened.
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/08 ... hat-werent
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