School Shootings

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School Shootings

Post by Mountaineer » Tue May 22, 2018 4:38 pm

I came across a very interesting discussion today. ... M

Friends,
Richard J. Maybury is an economist, historian, military intelligence man, and former teacher who has published a series of books that are especially useful for homeschooling and private schools referred to collectively as the "Uncle Eric" books. They are well worth the read and use with our kids and would greatly supplement our Memoria Press curricula. He writes from a Libertarian perspective on most issues and also regularly publishes "U.S. & World Early Warning Report" (EWR) which provides solid insights into both the political world scene and the world economic scene from a free market Austrian economic model viewpoint.
In Maybury's most recent EWR he reflects on the current status of public education and especially deals with the issue of school shootings. I find myself in strong agreement with him and offer his thoughts to you for your consideration. I believe you will find it an interesting read.

___________________________
"Fasten your seat belt, this will be a hair raising ride. I will try to keep it as gentle as possible without hiding the truth. I'd rather not be drawing your attention to this awful subject at all, but I'd never forgive myself, which I shall explain. Here we go.
In numerous movies, you've seen the Thompson submachine gun. Patented in 1920, the "Tommy gun's" drum magazine held an awesom 100 45 cal. rounds. In full-auto, it fired at a rate of 600 rounds per minute. Soldiers called it the trench sweeper.
Before gun controls begain in 1934, this fearsome military weapon was openly advertised and sold mail order to anyone. Including teens.
The Tommy gun was so simple it required no training for use as a school sweeper. Just open the shipping carton, load, and blaze away.
Yet, as far as I have been able to determine, no student or teacher was ever shot at by a Thompson. And school shootings of any kind were almost unknown until the 1960's.
This is without a doubt my most important warning ever: to me the evidence is convincing that violence in the public schools has begun to skyrocket.
The schools were already in trouble due to a century of political tinkering with them. Now, I believe, the advent of smartphones has brought them to the breaking point.
If you have school-age children or grandchildren, I will give suggestions for keeping them safe. The suggestions may also solve some of your most worrisome family problems. This will all come clear when we understand where the disaster came from.
Here's the story. Under "School shootings in the U.S.," Wikipedia reports a plethora of revealing statistics about known incidents. I've boiled them down for you to this:
In the 19th century, meaning the days of the so-called wild west (it wasn't really wild compared to America today) school murders were practically non-existent. This in spite of the fact that there were no gun controls, and due to the vast surplus of Civil War weapons, much of the population, including youths, were armed to the teeth.
In the mid 20th century, school murders became far more common despite gun controls.
The 21st century has already brought more school murders than all of the 20th century. It's not yet an epidemic, but as I will show, it is almost certainly headed in that direction.
Every school shooting is blaimed on guns. Each time, most of the news media go on a hysterical anti-self defense campaign. They obviously hope this will lead to confiscation of all firearms. Never, never is a school shooting blamed on the school.
Long ago my wife and I were public school teachers. We still follow the school reform follies. In the 19th century and until the 1920's, most education that was not done by parents or self-education was done by teachers in 190,000 one-room school houses. By and large, this system worked far better than today's. Google "How the One-Room Schoolhouse Approach Got It Right," by Jennifer Miller.
Here, I believe, is the key to understanding what went wrong in the 20th century: typically a neighborhood one-room school contained 10 to 40 kids ages 6 to 15. With all ages mixed, a child had few real peers. And older children helped protect, tutor, mentor and care for the younger ones.
Every teacher knows you never learn something as well as when you teach it. A one-room school wasn't so much a classroom as a tutoring center.
Tutoring didn't just flow from older to younger. It also flowed from younger to older. If, say, a 10-year old was a whiz at math, and a 15 year old wasn't, the younger child would coach the older one.
In short, a one-room school operated much like a large family. Everyone helped everyone else. But schools today are yet another collectivist experiment.
"Scientific socialism" (aka Marxism or collectivism) became the rage among intellectuals in the late 1800's and 1900's. These people abhorred independent small neighborhood schools, preferring instead to turn out "the new socialist man," with all of us stamped from the same collectivist cookie cutters.
In the aftermath of the 1917 Russian Revolution, Russia became the Soviet Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. It was widely seen as the new, advanced economic prototype for all contries to follow. (See the 1981 movie Reds.)
Power hungry politicians and bureaucrats around the world fell in love with the Soviet Socialist example of central planning. Especially in education.
In the Soviet tradition of economic regimentation, they eradicated one-room schools and erected what we have today worldwide - giant mass production factory-model schools. Strongly influenced by Marxist John Dewey, these were at first proudly called "platoon schools."
Today, instead of 10 to 40 kids, schools have become industrial-sized plants. The average high school in the US has about 750 students. The one in the February Florida shooting had over 3,000, all packed like sardines into a few acres.
Each child is collected into this Soviet mass production scheme at age five. Then, like toasters riding an assembly line, all move along in lockstep at the same pace, till the assembly line ends and they go out the door at age 17 or 18.
Key point: all children in a given classroom are peers, meaning roughly the same age. they're on the same page at the same time, regardless of what the individual child may actually need.
In this global collectivist experiment, every child grows up a guinea pig, surrounded, engulfed by peers. The protectiveness the older ones naturally felt toward the younger ones was made impossible and simply discarded.
If there is an iron law of human psychology it must be that behavior is never improved by crowding. Indeed, this may be true of all species. As lab rats are gradually crowded, they begin going crazy and attacking each other. Then at some point, after a critical mass is reached, the violence spreads like a prairie fire.
Please read that paragraph again; we'll come back to the lab rats in a few minutes.
Each factory-type school is a gigantic experimental peer pressure cooker. We now have the fourth generation of pressure-cooked parents and teachers trying to raise the fifth generation of pressure-cooked children. It's no wonder teachers are obsessed with crowd control.
In 2014, the US Attorney General referred to "the school-to-prison pipeline." It's all a far cry from the 10-year old quietly, gently tutoring the 15-year old one-on-one.
In today's factory-model schools, what the individual child needs takes a back seat to what socialists thought socialism needed a hundred years ago.
Yet we all grow up being told by the mass-production schools that they are a normal, natural, healthy environment, and if we cannot thrive in them, it must be our fault, not that of the schools.
After observing this experiment for 43 years, I am convinced that most of the surly attitudes, depression and bad behaviors generally blamed on teen hormones are actually caused by insufferable peer pressure. After at least eight years (K through 7) of daily anxiety, what child wouldn't be a little wacko?
Look at what is known about the killers. In the vast majority of cases they have the same characteristics:
1. Different in some way that is noticeable.
2. An outcast. A black sheep.
3. Living in constant fear of bullies.
4. Often ridiculed.
Humans are profoundly gregarious creatures. If you have never been roundly ridiculed, you can't imagine how much it hurts.
A black sheep exists in a mob rule world. I think their dominant emotion is fear, and this eventually turns to hatred. Of everyone. Even parents.
I'm not making excuses for any murders. I'm only saying, this is what I think is happening.
From what my wife and I saw as teachers, the vast majority of black sheep just silently suffer through their 13-year prison sentences. The child says little about the pain because he or she thinks it's simply the way life is: I'm a loser, period, end of story. they know nothing different because they've never experienced a one-room school. They're scarred for life.
But now peer pressure has become so great that an increasing number of outcasts do not stay quiet. They either commit suicide, or try to kill everyone who may have laughed at them, or both.
Between early teen years and late teen years, the suicide rate among girls leaps 200%, and rises slowly thereafter. Among boys, it leaps 600%, and rises slowly thereafter.
Obviously something awful is done to us during our school years. For many it never goes away, and for tens of thousands it is literally unbearable. The CDC estimates "up to 1 out of every 5 children experience a mental disorder."
The rise in school shootings tracks the rise of the mass production schools. Between 1860 and 1960, school shooting deaths for the entire US averaged about 1 per year.
Destruction of one-room schools and explosive growth of mass production schools was in the period 1920-1960. Then in the 40-year period 1960 to 2000, school shooting deaths rose to over 5 per year. Since January 1, 2017, these deaths have averaged over 4 per month. Notice this growth curve is exponential.
Teachers are taught to see the one-room school model as primative. It may have been. But today's Soviet-style peer pressure schools are satanic. To me, peer pressure is one of the most dangerous things in the world; I've seen it ruin a lot of good kids.
Some might claim today's schools do a better job of educating. They should Google "nineteenth century 8th grade graduation tests" and ask themselves, how many college graduates today could handle those 8th grade tests?
I'm not blaming the teachers. Everyone in mass production factory model schools, including teachers, is a guinea pig in an experiment that was launched a century ago. I believe, rare is the person who escapes from school without lifetime damage, and this goes for students and teachers alike. For a teacher who cares about the kids, the job can be an emotional hell.
Spend a day observing in a typical mass production school. How many adults do you know who could be forcibly packed together this tightly, with people not of their choosing, day after day for 13 years, without going at least partly around the bend? Even penitentiary inmates are not crowed as tightly as innocent children are.
I will not be surprised if someday someone proves that the Marxist school experiment has created more mental illness than all other causes combined. The medical professions need a new adjective in their vocabulary: school-caused.
To think confiscating guns will solve the violence problem is naive. Without abolishing the cause of the violence, meaning the peer pressure cookers, it would only direct the killer's attention to other weapons. Especially bombs. Ask any chemist. Our world is filled with simple, cheap things that can easily be made to furn furiously or explode. Molotove cocktails, pipe bombs, propane bombs, the list is endless. The 1995 Oklahoma City device killed or wounded almost a thousand. It was made of fertilizer, diesel fuel and automobile racing fuel anyone can buy.
Recent years have brought a dramatic increase in school bomb threats. Nationwide they're now running at about 100 per day (and this is typical around the world). So we know for a fact that thousand of kids are already thinking along IED lines.
The mass production factory-model schools should be sold off and converted to something useful, like factories. We need to go back to the original American neighborhood one-room model, with obvious modern technological improvements. But this won't happen anytime soon, so under the ancient principle of loco parentis a teacher's first responsibility both ethically and legally, is to keep the children safe. All teachers in peer pressure cookers should be armed, rigorously trained and periodically tested.
Each violent incident is an inspiration for copy cats. In the 31 days after the Florida incident, there were ten more school shootings resulting in injury or death, and seven more attempts thwarted by police.
I care about you and your loved ones, so if you have a child or grandchildren in school, here is more information plus sources of help:
- A teen's brain is not mature. Among other things the mind has not yet developed the rugged individualism necessary to stand up against mob rule. In this era of teen cellphone savagery - cyber bullying, cyber slander, cyber sex, cyber insults, cyber ridicule, cyber ostracism - peer pressure grows more intense by the day. And, unlike in the past, kinds can never escape it. Peer pressure is a parasite that rides home with them on their phones.
The iPhone came out in 2007, and since then, suicide rates among teen boys have risen 30%, and girls 100%.
Even children who are not ridiculed live in fear they will be. So they worship the god of popularity. Facebook "likes" are the measure of self-worth. Some teens will do anything to accumulate them, including posting nude photos of themselves for every pervert in the world to copy and track back to the source.
Google "how to limit a child's cell phone use," and check out control apps such as Kidslox and Mobile Guardian. Better, give the child a simple flip phone without smartphone capabilities.
- Teach them never to ridicule, and steer well clear of those who do. We have no way to know how close to going berserk a victim might be.
- Remember the rats reaching critical mass, and their sudden tidal wave of violence. I think the desperate, frantic addiction to likes points to approaching critical mass insanity.
Google "wikihow, how to survive a school or workplace shooting." The three most crucial tactics are: (1) don't get cornered, (2) run fast and far, and (3) if you can't run, hide quietly behind something like concrete. Drill the children on those 20 words until they can recite them in their sleep. Teach them that in a shooting, their best friends are speed and concrete.
- Visit their school and point out escape routes.
- Take them to a building site and show them which parts of a wall are solid, and which are hollow.
- In a mass-production peer pressure cooker, the desire to be popular easily becomes an addiction. At the same time as you periodically remind your children about the dangers of alcohol, tabacco, sex and drugs, warn about peer pressure; it's the pusher of the other four.
- Millions of children live in their parents' homes but are being raised by the people on their smartphones. Search WebMD.com for its articles about helping kids handle peer pressure. Most importantly, teach children how to choose friends wisely, and steer clear of bad apples.
You might consider putting them through our three-hour Ethics Solutions course so they can more easily identify persons who are ethical. It's satisfaction guaranteed or your money back. Go to ethicssolutions.net and click on "For Parents and Children." Or call 1-877-226-1263.
- In a mass production school, if your child needs something and is not getting it, confront the teacher and administrators and demand it. You are the customer. Your taxes pay their salaries. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If they do not supply your child with what the child needs, insert the word attorney into the conversation.
- If it is within your means, consider home schooling (see hslda.org, and Homeschool.com) or small private schools.
Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to panic you, I'm just trying to prepare you. Also, please keep the threats in perspective. At present, an American is 2,270% more likely to die in a car than in a mass shooting.
Granted, there is no telling what the future will bring. But even if it turns out as bad as the exponential trend seems to indicate, I'm quite sure that if you and your children are prepared, you will come through fine. Also good things will continue to emerge from this crisis. One is that as the mass production Soviet style schools grow worse, more parents and teachers will go in search of alternatives that are healthy.
The truly great news is with the advances made by modern electronics and the home school community, (and, of course, my Uncle Eric books! 800-509-5400; richardmaybury.com) it's becoming ever easier for any child to have a first rate education without being tossed into a peer pressure cooker. Judging by the dozens of home schooled kids I've met, home-schooling is where the leaders of tomorrow are coming from, and most are independent thinkers.
Summarizing, smartphones are blazes under the peer pressure cookers, and lids are beginning to blow off. But if you take wise precautions, I'm sure you and your loved ones will be okay.
Richard J. Maybury
Early Warning Report
May, 2018
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue May 22, 2018 5:12 pm

TLDR guns are bad prolly, going back to watching American Idle lolz.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Mountaineer » Tue May 22, 2018 5:37 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:12 pm
TLDR guns are bad prolly, going back to watching American Idle lolz.
No, it's lack of one room schools. You really might wish to read. A different take than I've seen before. Really.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Xan » Tue May 22, 2018 8:14 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:37 pm
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:12 pm
TLDR guns are bad prolly, going back to watching American Idle lolz.
No, it's lack of one room schools. You really might wish to read. A different take than I've seen before. Really.
I'm pretty sure Krieg was sarcastically bemoaning the people who would go for the easy answer rather than read more. I don't think he's one of them.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Mountaineer » Wed May 23, 2018 6:39 am

Xan wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 8:14 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:37 pm
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:12 pm
TLDR guns are bad prolly, going back to watching American Idle lolz.
No, it's lack of one room schools. You really might wish to read. A different take than I've seen before. Really.
I'm pretty sure Krieg was sarcastically bemoaning the people who would go for the easy answer rather than read more. I don't think he's one of them.
The Kriegster pulling my leg? Surely not. I'm shocked! And gullible. ;)
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed May 23, 2018 8:01 am

If you see me drop a lolz, you can be sure I'm writing in an 'inane, latte-fueled teenage girl tweeting on a smartphone' voice.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Mountaineer » Wed May 23, 2018 1:08 pm

Desert wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 9:05 am
Interesting post, Mountaineer. I agree with much of the problem statement, regarding the culture in our massive schools. I'm not sure it's possible to go back to the one-room schoolhouses, due to population growth and density. But I agree that the schools are likely a huge part of the problem, perhaps even more than the family situations.

I have my son in private school, which is a massively difficult thing for a cheap bastard like me to do. I pay for public schools with my property taxes, then pay for private as well. It was a very difficult decision, given that the public schools are well rated in my town. I don't think private schools are the ultimate answer for everyone, and there are certainly some very poor private schools as well. But for my son's mental structure, this particular school seems to be a good match, so far. He'd be easily bullied since he is completely uninterested in sports (other than swimming and cycling), and is into incredibly nerdy stuff like acting in plays and writing bizarre short stories. Somehow, in this particular school culture, even the jocks in his class somehow appreciate the nuttiness he brings. Maybe this could have happened in a massive public school, but I highly doubt it. Bullying is a massive problem.
Desert, glad you have a good solution for your son. My son is an Assistant Principle in a public school system middle school. He says I would not believe the things that go on - sex, drugs, theft, bullying, weapons, etc. etc. He says that almost every day he deals with the police. I don't know how he can do it; I guess someone has to try. Heart wrenching to hear what has happened to the education system since I was in it. All the "fixes" just seem to make it worse. Rev 22:20.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Cortopassi » Wed May 23, 2018 2:45 pm

I have nothing but praise for the school system we are in, from pre-k through HS. I know it is different everywhere, and probably has a lot to do with the self esteem and self confidence of your own kids.

I think this is partly pining for the "good old days" which for the most part is BS. My kids are so much better taught and have had the opportunity for so many more activities and experiences than I ever did. And the level of bullying/fighting that existed in my high school years (80s) was significantly more than my kids see.

The person who wrote the article makes it sound like going to school is hell on earth. Not true in my case. I'm sure it is in some, but you can't paint such a wide swath.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Libertarian666 » Wed May 23, 2018 10:35 pm

All school shootings have one thing in common: they take place in schools.

Thus, the solution to this problem is obvious: ban schools.

Note: school shootings, in fact all mass shootings, are extremely rare events. In the US, more people are killed by lightning each year, on average, than in all mass shootings in that year. So in fact this "school shooting epidemic" is nothing more or less than media-fueled hysteria.

Of course this doesn't mean that the Prussian factory-school system is anything but a tyrannical system of brainwashing, because it is exactly that. But not because of the nonexistent epidemic of school shootings.
Simonjester wrote: plus 1
i just came across this article about literacy, that anyone who thinks public "education" isn’t built to dumb down the population may find informative..https://www.americanthinker.com/article ... ading.html
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Cortopassi » Thu May 24, 2018 8:14 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 10:35 pm
All school shootings have one thing in common: they take place in schools.

Thus, the solution to this problem is obvious: ban schools.

Note: school shootings, in fact all mass shootings, are extremely rare events. In the US, more people are killed by lightning each year, on average, than in all mass shootings in that year. So in fact this "school shooting epidemic" is nothing more or less than media-fueled hysteria.

Of course this doesn't mean that the Prussian factory-school system is anything but a tyrannical system of brainwashing, because it is exactly that. But not because of the nonexistent epidemic of school shootings.
Brainwashing how? My daughters have made it/are making it through without any "radical" views supposedly taught in public schools. Maybe what a conservative might consider radical, but that's the age.

I was a Greenpeace, global warming, joined every nature club "liberal" in my teens and 20s, and as I have gotten older with kids and an expanded view, some of those thoughts have shifted, but I am glad I have my girls to challenge me on things where they are more liberal and I am more conservative now.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Maddy » Thu May 24, 2018 9:04 am

As we speak, there stands a recent post in the comments section of a major online news page that ridicules the most recent shooter for being a "loser virgin." Is it really that hard to see what popped his cork? The progressive social engineers have created a generation of ferals.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Libertarian666 » Thu May 24, 2018 10:25 am

Maddy wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 9:04 am
As we speak, there stands a recent post in the comments section of a major online news page that ridicules the most recent shooter for being a "loser virgin." Is it really that hard to see what popped his cork? The progressive social engineers have created a generation of ferals.

Just one post? That accounts for a large proportion of the comments I've seen on that event.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Cortopassi » Thu May 24, 2018 12:02 pm

Simonjester wrote:
Libertarian666 wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 10:35 pm
All school shootings have one thing in common: they take place in schools.

Thus, the solution to this problem is obvious: ban schools.

Note: school shootings, in fact all mass shootings, are extremely rare events. In the US, more people are killed by lightning each year, on average, than in all mass shootings in that year. So in fact this "school shooting epidemic" is nothing more or less than media-fueled hysteria.

Of course this doesn't mean that the Prussian factory-school system is anything but a tyrannical system of brainwashing, because it is exactly that. But not because of the nonexistent epidemic of school shootings.
plus 1
i just came across this article about literacy, that anyone who thinks public "education" isn’t built to dumb down the population may find informative..https://www.americanthinker.com/article ... ading.html
Seems to me the writer is pushing a doom and gloom scenario which brings people to his website.

Quote "That was when our Education Establishment (most probably, I would suggest, influenced by Comintern subversives) abolished phonics and made children memorize words by their shapes. This approach has been a disaster, yet the public has been persuaded to accept it until this day."

My kids went through phonics, and I have not recognized any communist influence...! we read daily at home with them when young, and my younger one especially has 5+ books going at any one time.

My experience is exceptional, but typical of the area I am in. I have stated prior that I know this is not the case everywhere; take many Chicago public schools as an example.

I am sick and tired of the gloom and doom stuff peddled everywhere, for every facet of anything you care to be gloomy about. Schools, government, politics, deep state, religion (or lack thereof), climate change, etc, etc, etc.

In what way, please, has my kids' education dumbed them down? I've got one kid graduating this week, and going to Notre Dame, with a 4.57/4 GPA and 35 on her ACT. My other is going into high school with straight A's, plays two instruments, and is over 2 years ahead of where I was in math at the same grade level.

Yes, they have great parents (!), but they also spend the majority of their days in these commie run hell-hole schools. C'mon! Things are not that bad!

The majority of kids I know are good kids, smart and accepting of differences, not like the crap 30 years ago when every little difference was bullied. Is that brainwashing and dumbing down?
Simonjester wrote: if your kids learned to read by phonics they are lucky, I am old enough to have been taught to read that way as well, the complaint is against the "memorization of words by shape method" that leaves kids illiterate and creates a failure anxiety loop that all but kills the urge and ability to read. (basically teaching to build a learning disability) I was lucky (undoubtedly like your kids) and also had intelligent parents who encouraged thinking, the article may be a bit doom and gloom but the statistics, which seem to be from reliable sources tell the same story. a common take on the Prussian education system is
originated in the early 18th century as a way to instill absolute obedience and uniformity in the students under the guise of education. What the students wanted and thought was irrelevant—the Prussian education system was there to teach them minimal literacy and indoctrinate them into believing in the infallibility of the supreme authority (Prussian King Fredrick William I at the time). The end result was a useful generic worker, readily replaceable and dispensable.
http://www.returnofkings.com/64892/why- ... ion-system* this was done to create obedient and unquestioning solders,workers (and in the us voters) something a classical education that has logic, reason and critical thinking as its foundation can never do..

* this is very far from being the best article on the topic (a quicky search was all i have time for this am) there are many more in-depth and reliable ones out there, but it has the basics with a dose of sjw hating thrown in.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Maddy » Thu May 24, 2018 1:09 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:25 am
Maddy wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 9:04 am
As we speak, there stands a recent post in the comments section of a major online news page that ridicules the most recent shooter for being a "loser virgin." Is it really that hard to see what popped his cork? The progressive social engineers have created a generation of ferals.
Just one post? That accounts for a large proportion of the comments I've seen on that event.
Unfortunately, it's not just one. Just a brief glance at the comments accompanying that article revealed a number of crude remarks about everything from his weight to his acne. And unfortunately it's fairly representative of what many kids go through these days. I can only imagine.

Actually I don't have to imagine, because even in the late sixties and early seventies, when things were tame compared to today, I witnessed several school incidents that were profound enough in my mind to have stuck with me until today. There was a girl named Margot in the sixth grade who couldn't have been nicer, but she had a meek, studious look and wore glasses. One day, the popular girls thought it would be fun to make a gift to Margot of a hair barrette that they had found in a trash can. Margot took the gift graciously and thanked them sincerely--at which point they all burst out laughing. Today I wonder why I didn't step up and bash those girls' heads. I guess I was too worried about being the next target.

Another incident I have never forgotten occurred two years later, in eighth grade. By that time, the girls had become oh-so-very sophisticated, and the popular ones had become downright mean. Their target, that year, was a rather homely girl named Kathy, whose only crime was that she was immature, a little unkempt, and had bad skin. They tormented her endlessly. One day, I recall that Kathy went to her locker and found all of its contents strewn about the floor. A nearby group of girls laughed and jeered. Kathy must have been at her breaking point, because she sort of collapsed on the ground in tears and began banging her head on her locker. More laughter and jeering. I've never forgotten that incident but do wonder what became of Kathy and whether it was even possible for her to have a normal life after that.

Today, it's orders of magnitude worse. I really can't imagine how kids who are subjected to endless ridicule and humiliation make it into adulthood with any kind of intact self-concept. I suspect that many of them go through life angry, isolated, and perseverating over some kind of imaginary "Carrie" moment.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Cortopassi » Thu May 24, 2018 2:04 pm

Maddy wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 1:09 pm
Libertarian666 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:25 am
Maddy wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 9:04 am
As we speak, there stands a recent post in the comments section of a major online news page that ridicules the most recent shooter for being a "loser virgin." Is it really that hard to see what popped his cork? The progressive social engineers have created a generation of ferals.
Just one post? That accounts for a large proportion of the comments I've seen on that event.
Unfortunately, it's not just one. Just a brief glance at the comments accompanying that article revealed crude remarks about everything from his weight to his acne. And unfortunately it's fairly representative of what many kids go through these days. I can only imagine.

Actually I don't have to imagine, because even in the late sixties and early seventies, when things were tame compared to today, I witnessed several school incidents that were profound enough in my mind to have stuck with me until today. There was a girl named Margot in the sixth grade who couldn't have been nicer, but she had a meek, studious visage and wore glasses. One day, the popular girls thought it would be fun to make a gift to Margot of a hair barrette that they had found in a trash can. Margot took the gift graciously and thanked them sincerely--at which point they all burst out laughing. Today I wonder why I didn't step up and bash those girls' heads. I guess I was too worried about being the next target.

Another incident I have never forgotten occurred two years later, in eighth grade. By that time, the girls had become oh-so-very sophisticated, and the popular ones had become downright mean. Their target, that year, was a rather homely girl named Kathy. They tormented her endlessly. One day, I recall that Kathy went to her locker and found all of its contents strewn about the floor. A nearby group of girls laughed and jeered. Kathy must have been at her breaking point, because she sort of collapsed on the ground in tears and began banging her head on her locker. More laughter and jeering. I've never forgotten that incident but do wonder what became of Kathy and whether it was even possible for her to have a normal life after that.

Today, it's orders of magnitude worse.
The comment sections of virtually every article, everywhere seems to bring out the worst in some people. I have mentioned before that if I was in a hiring position and I saw comments like that from a candidate... goodbye.

You can literally go to an article about a 5 year old dying of cancer and there will be just plain stupid and mean comments from people.

The events you indicate above are terrible, and in line with some things I recall in high school in the 80s.

I am obviously well removed from high school, but on a day to day basis I see much more acceptance of differences than long ago. Sure, there are still the popular girl, athletic girl, nerdy girl groupings, but they still interact and are nice to each other. Again, it could just be me not experiencing it day after day in the situation.

Is it orders of magnitudes worse? I am not sure. I assume with social media it probably is when it happens, but to me the actual percentage/number of incidences seem to be much lower.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Cortopassi » Thu May 24, 2018 2:06 pm

Desert wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 12:22 pm
Good points, Cortopassi, and congrats on your child's 35 ACT! Wow. Sorry to hear about going to Notre Dame though; I wondered why the beautiful Illini avatar was replaced with the ND one recently. :) Just kidding, as an Illini grad myself, I miss the Illini version.
I was sorry for a while as well, Champaign was in the cards for a while, but she thought it was too big. And better to be able to root for a school that actually wins!
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Libertarian666 » Thu May 24, 2018 7:43 pm

Maddy wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 1:09 pm
Libertarian666 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:25 am
Maddy wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 9:04 am
As we speak, there stands a recent post in the comments section of a major online news page that ridicules the most recent shooter for being a "loser virgin." Is it really that hard to see what popped his cork? The progressive social engineers have created a generation of ferals.
Just one post? That accounts for a large proportion of the comments I've seen on that event.
Unfortunately, it's not just one. Just a brief glance at the comments accompanying that article revealed a number of crude remarks about everything from his weight to his acne. And unfortunately it's fairly representative of what many kids go through these days. I can only imagine.

Actually I don't have to imagine, because even in the late sixties and early seventies, when things were tame compared to today, I witnessed several school incidents that were profound enough in my mind to have stuck with me until today. There was a girl named Margot in the sixth grade who couldn't have been nicer, but she had a meek, studious look and wore glasses. One day, the popular girls thought it would be fun to make a gift to Margot of a hair barrette that they had found in a trash can. Margot took the gift graciously and thanked them sincerely--at which point they all burst out laughing. Today I wonder why I didn't step up and bash those girls' heads. I guess I was too worried about being the next target.

Another incident I have never forgotten occurred two years later, in eighth grade. By that time, the girls had become oh-so-very sophisticated, and the popular ones had become downright mean. Their target, that year, was a rather homely girl named Kathy, whose only crime was that she was immature, a little unkempt, and had bad skin. They tormented her endlessly. One day, I recall that Kathy went to her locker and found all of its contents strewn about the floor. A nearby group of girls laughed and jeered. Kathy must have been at her breaking point, because she sort of collapsed on the ground in tears and began banging her head on her locker. More laughter and jeering. I've never forgotten that incident but do wonder what became of Kathy and whether it was even possible for her to have a normal life after that.

Today, it's orders of magnitude worse. I really can't imagine how kids who are subjected to endless ridicule and humiliation make it into adulthood with any kind of intact self-concept. I suspect that many of them go through life angry, isolated, and perseverating over some kind of imaginary "Carrie" moment.
I was also bullied, including physically, in both grade school and high school. Both of these situations ended when I struck back at the bullies, but I understand how that wouldn't work for girls or even some boys.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu May 24, 2018 9:31 pm

I think the punch-equivalent for girls is "Your hair looks bad in that pixie cut, everyone is making fun of you" or similar.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Libertarian666 » Thu May 24, 2018 10:49 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 9:31 pm
I think the punch-equivalent for girls is "Your hair looks bad in that pixie cut, everyone is making fun of you" or similar.
Right, but they can't handle that by striking back in the same way because they are of low status in the first place, so their insults carry no weight.

My fist, however, was just as good as anyone else's to strike back physically.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Maddy » Fri May 25, 2018 6:59 am

This is an aside, but I'm curious how so many kids these days are boasting grade point averages that exceed 4.0. In my day, that was mathematically impossible.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Cortopassi » Fri May 25, 2018 8:43 am

Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:59 am
This is an aside, but I'm curious how so many kids these days are boasting grade point averages that exceed 4.0. In my day, that was mathematically impossible.
I'm sure AP classes will continue, but depending on the college you are going to, many have become very selective in what they'll take for AP credit, either not crediting you, or only crediting if you got a 5 on the AP test.

For example, Notre Dame will take 31 hours of my daughter's AP credit, and a lot of that does not simply get you out of specific requirements... instead it "allows" you to take higher level classes in that requirement area.

U of I, alternatively, would have taken 48 hours, and she theoretically could go in as a second semester sophomore, credit-wise. Not that there's a push to finish college in less than 4 years.

It does open up a lot of options to be more flexible in the electives and classes you take, and nowadays, you cannot get into a top level school without having a lot of AP classes.

The whole 3/4/5 point ranking depending on type of class, if you ask me is overblown. I think it just helps create different social classes in the schools.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Maddy » Fri May 25, 2018 9:57 am

MangoMan wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:51 am
Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:59 am
This is an aside, but I'm curious how so many kids these days are boasting grade point averages that exceed 4.0. In my day, that was mathematically impossible.
Are you saying this is the equivalent of a 'participation trophy' in its feel-good emotion? Because it is any thing but, IMO. It rewards kids in the Honors and AP classes with extra 'points' for taking harder classes and still earning A's.
I've just never heard of such a thing. Back when I was in school, the nature and level of the class stood on its own. An "A" earned in an upper level or hard science class was naturally more meaningful to a college or potential employer than an "A" earned in a "survey" or "feel good" class. The transcript and field of study were thought to speak for themselves.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Xan » Fri May 25, 2018 10:12 am

Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 9:57 am
MangoMan wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:51 am
Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:59 am
This is an aside, but I'm curious how so many kids these days are boasting grade point averages that exceed 4.0. In my day, that was mathematically impossible.
Are you saying this is the equivalent of a 'participation trophy' in its feel-good emotion? Because it is any thing but, IMO. It rewards kids in the Honors and AP classes with extra 'points' for taking harder classes and still earning A's.
I've just never heard of such a thing. Back when I was in school, the nature and level of the class stood on its own. An "A" earned in an upper level or hard science class was naturally more meaningful to a college or potential employer than an "A" earned in a "survey" or "feel good" class. The transcript and field of study were thought to speak for themselves.
There's nothing stopping somebody from looking at the transcript and evaluating it just that way. But the point of the Grade Point *Average* is to quickly get an idea of the student's performance in a single number. Yes, that's always leaving information out.

Without the +1 "bump", there's a risk of trashing your GPA for taking Honors/AP classes, and no advantage to it. I think the +1 bump makes the GPA more useful rather than less.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Mountaineer » Fri May 25, 2018 10:30 am

Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 9:57 am
MangoMan wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:51 am
Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:59 am
This is an aside, but I'm curious how so many kids these days are boasting grade point averages that exceed 4.0. In my day, that was mathematically impossible.
Are you saying this is the equivalent of a 'participation trophy' in its feel-good emotion? Because it is any thing but, IMO. It rewards kids in the Honors and AP classes with extra 'points' for taking harder classes and still earning A's.
I've just never heard of such a thing. Back when I was in school, the nature and level of the class stood on its own. An "A" earned in an upper level or hard science class was naturally more meaningful to a college or potential employer than an "A" earned in a "survey" or "feel good" class. The transcript and field of study were thought to speak for themselves.
Ditto. My High School graded on the percentage scale. Highest possible was 100% which required 100% on all tests and homework, and perfect attendance in the specified class. College was on the 4.0 maximum scale.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Maddy » Fri May 25, 2018 10:38 am

Mountaineer wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 10:30 am
Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 9:57 am
MangoMan wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:51 am

Are you saying this is the equivalent of a 'participation trophy' in its feel-good emotion? Because it is any thing but, IMO. It rewards kids in the Honors and AP classes with extra 'points' for taking harder classes and still earning A's.
I've just never heard of such a thing. Back when I was in school, the nature and level of the class stood on its own. An "A" earned in an upper level or hard science class was naturally more meaningful to a college or potential employer than an "A" earned in a "survey" or "feel good" class. The transcript and field of study were thought to speak for themselves.
Ditto. My High School graded on the percentage scale. Highest possible was 100% which required 100% on all tests and homework, and perfect attendance in the specified class. College was on the 4.0 maximum scale.
I suppose that due to The Great Leveling, there's been a need for ever more creative ways to distinguish those students who truly have achieved something above and beyond.
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