Figuring Out Religion

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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:49 pm

OK, it has been quiet on this thread for a bit. Here is something to chew on:

http://steadfastlutherans.org/2012/03/d ... for-death/

Blessings, ... Mountaineer
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:28 am

A blessed Lent 2018. I pray that we all come to love God and neighbor more, and for a deepening of Christian unity. Peace!
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Xan » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:59 pm

Mountaineer wrote:A blessed Lent 2018. I pray that we all come to love God and neighbor more, and for a deepening of Christian unity. Peace!
Same to you, Mountaineer, and I really appreciated the article you linked to just above your most recent post.

A lovely sermon for the beginning of Lent:
https://www.stpaulaustin.org/sermons/se ... dnesday-3/
(except for you, Ad O; I think you need to wait until Monday)
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Ad Orientem » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:18 am

Lent starts on Monday for us.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:25 pm

You devil!
Desert wrote:I feel like I should point out that this forum now has 666 members.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:31 am

A joyous Saint Patrick's Day to all. Celebrate with some corned beef and cabbage or Irish stew with soda bread, Jameson's Caskmates Stout Edition, and a Guinness or two. :) Here is some history about St. Patrick's Breastplate for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Pat ... reastplate
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Xan » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:23 pm

And don't forget to refresh your understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:41 pm

Xan wrote:And don't forget to refresh your understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izMhT9pl-28
That is right up there with the Babylon Bee. I like Hans Fiene. On a serious note, are you sure you did not intend this link?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw

;D
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Xan » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:26 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Xan wrote:And don't forget to refresh your understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izMhT9pl-28
That is right up there with the Babylon Bee. I like Hans Fiene. On a serious note, are you sure you did not intend this link?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw

;D
Oops! Yes I did. Corrected.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:25 am

Need hope in this crazy world? Find hope this Easter season at your local Christian congregation.

Palm Sunday - March 25 (Jesus comes to Jerusalem, the people praise Him)

Maundy Thursday - March 29 (Jesus institutes the Lord's Supper)

Good Friday - March 30 (Jesus conquers death, those who believe His promises will live forever)

Easter Sunday - April 1 (Jesus rises from the dead, assures believers we will also rise from the dead)

Got hope? Join with fellow believers, hear the story, walk beside us with Jesus, find new hope for every day!
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by MWKXJ » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:04 pm

Xan wrote:And don't forget to refresh your understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw
Occasionally the old hymns say it best...
[...]

Now our heav'nly Aaron enters With his blood within the veil;
Joshua now is come to Canaan, And the kings before Him quail.
Now He plants the tribes of Israel In their promised resting place;
Now our great Elijah offers Double portion of His grace.

Thou hast raised our human nature On the clouds to God's right hand;
There we sit in heavenly places, There with Thee in glory stand.
Jesus reigns, adored by angels; Man with God is on the throne.
Mighty Lord, in Thine ascension We by faith behold our own.


Glory be to God the Father; Glory be to God the Son,
Dying, risen, ascending for us, Who the heavenly realm hath won;
Glory to the Holy Spirit! To One God in Persons Three
Glory both in earth and heaven, Glory, endless glory, be.
http://www.lutheran-hymnal.com/lyrics/tlh218.htm
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Xan » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:52 pm

MWKXJ wrote:
Xan wrote:And don't forget to refresh your understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw
Occasionally the old hymns say it best...
[...]

Now our heav'nly Aaron enters With his blood within the veil;
Joshua now is come to Canaan, And the kings before Him quail.
Now He plants the tribes of Israel In their promised resting place;
Now our great Elijah offers Double portion of His grace.

Thou hast raised our human nature On the clouds to God's right hand;
There we sit in heavenly places, There with Thee in glory stand.
Jesus reigns, adored by angels; Man with God is on the throne.
Mighty Lord, in Thine ascension We by faith behold our own.


Glory be to God the Father; Glory be to God the Son,
Dying, risen, ascending for us, Who the heavenly realm hath won;
Glory to the Holy Spirit! To One God in Persons Three
Glory both in earth and heaven, Glory, endless glory, be.
http://www.lutheran-hymnal.com/lyrics/tlh218.htm
Good one. Combine that page with this recording to sing along:
https://hymnary.org/media/fetch/182551

...How did we end up with so many Lutherans here?
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Sun May 13, 2018 5:12 pm

This is a great sermon for those who celebrate the Ascension of Jesus. If you do not celebrate that, you can celebrate Mothers' Day, or my anniversary which is today. WooHoo 8)

https://bishopandchristian.wordpress.co ... ot-absent/
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:58 pm

Kim Jong Un Criticized For Meeting With Nation That Has Killed 60 Million Babies
June 14, 2018


https://babylonbee.com/news/kim-jong-un ... on-babies/


Tongue-in-cheek and sad commentary on our country.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Ad Orientem » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:58 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:58 pm
Kim Jong Un Criticized For Meeting With Nation That Has Killed 60 Million Babies
June 14, 2018


https://babylonbee.com/news/kim-jong-un ... on-babies/


Tongue-in-cheek and sad commentary on our country.
Ouch.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:42 am

Interesting article on hope and the role Christians play. Two excerpts:

Chaput’s point is that Christians today must resist the temptation to retreat from the world because the world is after all in great need of them: “If we want to follow Jesus, we must love the world too and remain in it, as he did, to work for its salvation.” In a passage quoting a column by Dreher that calls for “intentional separation from the mainstream,” Chaput cautions that Christians cannot “give up on the good still present in American society,” while also working to preserve Christian community and, as Esolen exhorts, rebuild American culture. To do that, Christians today must rediscover the spirit of the early church, which based its claims on nothing but the fact of the Resurrection. In the second century, Chaput says, Christians had no great cultural achievements, no power, and scarcely any history. Yet the author of the Letter to Diognetus likened Christians to the soul and the world to the body: “The soul is shut up in the body, and yet itself holds the body together; while Christians are restrained in the world as in a prison, and yet themselves hold the world together.” These early believers could write like this because they knew what they were about. As Chaput notes, “The only thing that could validate such a statement was this: Jesus of Nazareth rose from the dead. If the Resurrection happened, then that fact changes everything.”


These four authors take different approaches to the same theme—the aggressive secularization of mainstream society and its implications for the church—but they all arrive at a similar conclusion: a renewed church will see society safely through the dark times ahead, so Christians must begin renewing the church now. If there is anything wanting in these volumes, it is perhaps a more complete discussion of what all of this might cost individual Christians. The authors do talk about the sacrifices attendant to something like the Benedict Option—but not in detail about the possible future of persecution. Dreher hints at this theme in a chapter titled, “Preparing for Hard Labor.” Christians, he argues, need to reconsider the role of work in their lives, not just because it has taken on an outsized role in modern life, but because Christians are not going to be left alone by the progressives that dominate our economy: “We may not (yet) be at the point where Christians are forbidden to buy and sell in general without state approval, but we are on the brink of entire areas of commercial and professional life being off-limits to believers whose consciences will not allow them to burn incense to the gods of our age.” It’s easy to think of recent examples pulled from the headlines—Christian bakers, florists, and wedding planners who decline to participate in same-sex weddings, foster parents who refuse to affirm the ideology of transgenderism at the behest of state agencies, employers who won’t provide contraceptives to their employees. The list of mandates, large and small, will surely grow longer as our progressive scheme of government persists.

http://www.claremont.org/crb/article/ne ... ing-world/
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Xan » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:06 pm

Happy Michaelmas, everyone! (Except possibly Ad O, for whom it's a different day.)
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:02 pm

Xan wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:06 pm
Happy Michaelmas, everyone! (Except possibly Ad O, for whom it's a different day.)
Same to you. Our congregation celebrated Oktoberfest today as well; an outreach event to the community - hundreds attended and the parking lot was overflowing. Brats, hot dogs, sauerkraut, German potato salad, pretzels, beer, soft drinks, water, and lots of yummy deserts (no green jello though ;D ). Bouncy house for the kiddies, face painting, pumpkin painting, local orchestra played outside in beautiful sunny temperate weather. All at no charge for everyone who showed up. Lots of great conversations.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Ad Orientem » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:55 pm

Image

Synaxis of the Archangel Michael and the Other Bodiless Powers (Nov 8 ns/21 os)

The Synaxis of the Chief of the Heavenly Hosts, Archangel Michael and the Other Heavenly Bodiless Powers: Archangels Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel, Selaphiel, Jehudiel, Barachiel, and Jeremiel was established at the beginning of the fourth century at the Council of Laodicea, which met several years before the First Ecumenical Council. The 35th Canon of the Council of Laodicea condemned and denounced as heretical the worship of angels as gods and rulers of the world, but affirmed their proper veneration.

A Feastday was established in November, the ninth month after March (with which the year began in ancient times) since there are Nine Ranks of Angels. The eighth day of the month was chosen for the Synaxis of all the Bodiless Powers of Heaven since the Day of the Dread Last Judgment is called the Eighth Day by the holy Fathers. After the end of this age (characterized by its seven days of Creation) will come the Eighth Day, and then “the Son of Man shall come in His Glory and all the holy Angels with Him” (Mt. 25:31).

The Angelic Ranks are divided into three Hierarchies: highest, middle, and lowest.

The Highest Hierarchy includes: the Seraphim, Cherubim and Thrones.

The six-winged SERAPHIM (Flaming, Fiery) (Is 6:12) stand closest of all to the Most Holy Trinity. They blaze with love for God and kindle such love in others.

The many-eyed CHERUBIM (outpouring of wisdom, enlightenment) (Gen 3:24) stand before the Lord after the Seraphim. They are radiant with the light of knowledge of God, and knowledge of the mysteries of God. Through them wisdom is poured forth, and people’s minds are enlightened so they may know God and behold His glory.

The THRONES (Col 1:16) stand after the Cherubim, mysteriously and incomprehensibly bearing God through the grace given them for their service. They are ministers of God’s justice, giving to tribunals, kings, etc. the capacity for righteous judgment.

The Middle Angelic Hierarchy consists of three Ranks: Dominions, Powers, and Authorities:

DOMINIONS (Col 1:16) hold dominion over the angels subject to them. They instruct the earthly authorities, established by God, to rule wisely, and to govern their lands well. The Dominions teach us to subdue sinful impulses, to subject the flesh to the spirit, to master our will, and to conquer temptation.

POWERS (1 Pet 3:22) fulfill the will of God without hesitation. They work great miracles and give the grace of wonderworking and clairvoyance to saints pleasing to God. The Powers assist people in fulfilling obediences. They also encourage them to be patient, and give them spiritual strength and fortitude.

AUTHORITIES (1 Pet 3:22, Col 1:16) have authority over the devil. They protect people from demonic temptations, and prevent demons from harming people as they would wish. They also uphold ascetics and guard them, helping people in the struggle with evil thoughts.

The Lowest Hierarchy includes the three Ranks: Principalities, Archangels, and Angels:

PRINCIPALITIES (Col 1:16) have command over the lower angels, instructing them in the fulfilling of God’s commands. They watch over the world and protect lands, nations and peoples. Principalities instruct people to render proper honor to those in authority, as befits their station. They teach those in authority to use their position, not for personal glory and gain, but to honor God, and to spread word of Him, for the benefit of those under them.

ARCHANGELS (1 Thess 4:16) are messengers of great and wondrous tidings. They reveal prophecies and the mysteries of the faith. They enlighten people to know and understand the will of God, they spread faith in God among the people, illuminating their minds with the light of the Holy Gospel.

ANGELS (1 Pet 3:22) are in the lowest rank of the heavenly hierarchy, and closest to people. They reveal the lesser mysteries of God and His intentions, guiding people to virtuous and holy life. They support those who remain steadfast, and they raise up the fallen. They never abandon us and they are always prepared to help us, if we desire it.

All the Ranks of the Heavenly Powers are called angels, although each has its own name and position by virtue of their service. The Lord reveals His will to the highest ranks of the angels, and they in turn inform the others.

Over all the Nine Ranks, the Lord appointed the Holy Archangel Michael (his name in Hebrew means “who is like unto God”), the faithful servitor of God, as Chief Commander. He cast down from Heaven the arrogantly proud Lucifer and the other fallen spirits when they rebelled against God. Michael summoned the ranks of angels and cried out, “Let us attend! Let us stand aright before our Creator and do not consider doing what is displeasing unto God!”

According to Church Tradition, and in the church services to the Archangel Michael, he participated in many other Old Testament events.

During the Exodus of the Israelites from Egypt he went before them in the form of a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night. Through him the power of the Lord was made manifest, annihilating the Egyptians and Pharaoh who were in pursuit of the Israelites. The Archangel Michael defended Israel in all its misfortunes.

He appeared to Joshua Son of Navi and revealed the will of the Lord at the taking of Jericho (Josh 5:13-16). The power of the great Chief Commander of God was manifest in the annihilation of the 185,000 soldiers of the Assyrian emperor Sennacherib (4/2 Kings 19:35); also in the smiting of the impious leader Heliodorus (2 Macc. 3: 24-26); and in the protection of the Three Holy Youths: Ananias, Azarias and Misail, thrown into the fiery furnace for their refusal to worship an idol (Dan 3:22-25).

Through the will of God, the Chief Commander Michael transported the Prophet Habbakuk (December 2) from Judea to Babylon, to give food to Daniel in the lions’ den (Dan. 14:33-37).

The Archangel Michael disputed with the devil over the body of the holy Prophet Moses (Jude 1:9).

The holy Archangel Michael showed his power when he miraculously saved a young man, cast into the sea by robbers with a stone about his neck on the shores of Mt Athos. This story is found in the Athonite Paterikon, and in the Life of Saint Neophytus of Docheiariou (November 9).

From ancient times the Archangel Michael was famed for his miracles in Rus. In the Volokolamsk Paterikon is a narrative of Saint Paphnutius of Borov with an account of Tatar tax-gatherers concerning the miraculous saving of Novgorod the Great: “Therefore Great Novgorod was never taken by the Hagarenes... when... for our sins the godless Hagarene emperor Batu devoured and set the Russian land aflame and came to Novgorod, and God and the Most Holy Theotokos shielded it with an appearance of Michael the Archangel, who forbade him to enter into it. He [Batu] was come to the Lithuanian city and came toward Kiev and saw the stone church, over the doors of which the great Archangel Michael had written and spoken to the prince his allotted fate, ‘By this we have forbidden you entry into Great Novgorod’.”

Intercession for Russian cities by the Most Holy Queen of Heaven always involved Her appearances with the Heavenly Hosts, under the leadership of the Archangel Michael. Grateful Rus acclaimed the Most Pure Mother of God and the Archangel Michael in church hymns. Many monasteries, cathedrals, court and merchant churches are dedicated to the Chief Commander Michael.

In old Kiev at the time of the accepting of Christianity, a cathedral of the Archangel was built, and a monastery also was named for him. Archangel cathedrals are found at Smolensk, Nizhni Novgorod, Staritsa, at Great Ustiug (beginning of the thirteenth century), and a cathedral at Sviyazhsk. In Rus there was not a city where there was not a church or chapel dedicated to the Archangel Michael.

One of the chief temples of the city of Moscow, the burial church in the Kremlin, is dedicated to him. Numerous and beautiful icons of the Chief Commander of the Heavenly Hosts are also in his Cathedral. One of these, the Icon “Blessed Soldiery,” was painted in the Dormition Cathedral of the Moscow Kremlin. The saintly soldiers, Russian princes, are depicted under the leadership of the Archangel Michael.

We invoke Saint Michael for protection from invasion by enemies and from civil war, and for the defeat of adversaries on the field of battle. He conquers all spiritual enemies.

Holy Scripture and Tradition give us the names of the Archangels:

Gabriel: strength (power) of God, herald and servitor of Divine omnipotence (Dan 8:16, Luke 1:26). He announces the mysteries of God.

Raphael: the healing of God, the curer of human infirmities (Tobit 3:16, 12:15)

Uriel: the fire or light of God, enlightener (3 Ezdras 5:20). We pray for him to enlighten those with darkened minds.

Selaphiel: the prayer of God, impelling to prayer (3 Ezdras 5:16). He prays to God for mankind.

Jehudiel: the glorifying of God, encouraging exertion for the glory of the Lord and interceding for the reward of efforts.

Barachiel: distributor of the blessings of God for good deeds, entreats the mercy of God for people.

Jeremiel: the raising up to God (3 Ezdras 4:36)

On icons the Archangels are depicted in according to the character of their service:

Michael tramples the devil underfoot, and in his left hand holds a green date-tree branch, and in his right hand a spear with a white banner on which is outlined a scarlet cross, or sometimes a fiery sword.

Gabriel with a branch from Paradise, presented by him to the Most Holy Virgin, or with a shining lantern in his right hand and with a mirror made of jasper in his left.

Raphael holds a vessel with healing medications in his left hand, and with his right hand leads Tobias, carrying a fish for healing (Tobit 5-8).

Uriel in his raised right hand holds a naked sword at the level of his chest, and in his lowered left hand “a fiery flame.”

Selaphiel in a prayerful posture, gazing downwards, hands folded on the chest.

Jehudiel holds a golden crown in his right hand, in his left, a whip of three red (or black) thongs.

Barachiel is shown with a white rose on his breast.

Jeremiel holds balance-scales in his hand.

Each person has a guardian angel, and every nation also receives its own guardian angel from God (Dan. 10:13). When a church is consecrated, it also receives a guardian angel (Palladius, Dial. Ch. 10).
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Xan » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:05 pm

I had always wondered exactly what the "thrones" were in "Ye Watchers and Ye Holy Ones". Thanks, Ad!
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:04 am

Xan wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:05 pm
I had always wondered exactly what the "thrones" were in "Ye Watchers and Ye Holy Ones". Thanks, Ad!
Xan: For more on "thrones" see Ezk 10:1 - there is a reference to it on a footnote of Col 1:16 in my Study Bible - TLSB (ESV).

Ad: Thank you for that information you provided. Very interesting.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by jacksonM » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:02 pm

My wife and I tend to avoid discussions about religion but we just had one today. It had to do with the fact that her elderly father and her sister are desperately trying to move out of the house they grew up in because it is haunted with spirits and is making them sick. They live in a third world country and although they are nominally Catholic, I think their religion is just a veneer that was placed upon their already superstitious belief system. My wife never goes to church and knows practically nothing about the Bible or the Christian faith beyond what she absorbed by osmosis in church. I'm not a Christian but I would say my own knowledge exceeds hers by orders of magnitude.

My wife swore that the house had been haunted by spirits all of her life and everyone has known this. As evidence she offered that one time she was on the back porch doing laundry and she could actually feel one of them touch the back of her head.

Which got me thinking - okay, you were on the back porch doing laundry - was there a sewer pipe nearby and where did the water come from? The answer was yes, there was a sewer pipe and the water came from a well.

So I suggested they have the house, the sewer pipe, and the well tested for the presence of carbon monoxide or some other form of gas. That suggestion fell on completely deaf ears. Because - in my limited experience growing up in America I have no idea that these things are actually real. I'm finding it very disconcerting that they won't take my advice but at this point I know it's time to shut my mouth. It probably is a good idea for them to move out of the house but not for the reason they think. I suspect the person they are going to rent it to will also make the discovery that it is haunted by spirits.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Ad Orientem » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:48 pm

I am an Orthodox Christian, so by no means do I dismiss the possibility of things existing that we cannot fully comprehend or that do not conform to our accepted laws of nature and science. That said, my first response to claims of hauntings, spiritual obsession or possession is deep skepticism. A Roman Catholic priest with experience in these areas asserted that 99% of such reports have perfectly rational explanations. Still. I have icons in most rooms of the house and every year after Theophany each room of the house is blessed with Holy Water. There are places and things that one needs to be very wary of.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by jacksonM » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:26 pm

Ad Orientem wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:48 pm
I am an Orthodox Christian, so by no means do I dismiss the possibility of things existing that we cannot fully comprehend or that do not conform to our accepted laws of nature and science. That said, my first response to claims of hauntings, spiritual obsession or possession is deep skepticism. A Roman Catholic priest with experience in these areas asserted that 99% of such reports have perfectly rational explanations. Still. I have icons in most rooms of the house and every year after Theophany each room of the house is blessed with Holy Water. There are places and things that one needs to be very wary of.
Not only do I not claim to be a Christian but I also don't claim to be a scientist. Having said that I think most scientists would probably agree with the first sentence you wrote. If Einstein had simply accepted that Newton had all the answers, he wouldn't have looked any further to uncover the things he did about space/time, quantum mechanics, etc.

My stepson had one of those "Holy Water" ceremonies when he and his bride bought their first house. The priest went from room to room with all the visitors, speaking some incantation while he sprinkled the water, apparently with the idea that this would keep the evil spirits from getting in. I'm not one to make fun of anyone's religious beliefs as long as they are harmless, but sorry, I wasn't buying it. They also have holy water in third world countries so why does it not work there?

In the case of my wife and her family, I don't think this is a harmless belief.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Xan » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:01 am

Ad Orientem, I'd be very interested to hear your take on this.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45870939
In a major religious split, the Russian Orthodox Church has cut ties with the body seen as the spiritual authority of the world's Orthodox Christians.

The break came after the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople recognised the independence of the Ukrainian Church from Moscow.

The row is being described as the greatest Orthodox split since the schism with Catholicism in 1054.
The root of the whole thing seems to be Russia's takeover of the Crimea, and the church at Constantinople deciding that Ukraine should be back under its purview rather than Moscow's.

Isn't Moscow and Constantinople excommunicating each other a HUGE deal?

IIRC, America is in Russia's zone for Orthodoxy. But I'm not sure how that works, exactly, because there are certainly many other flavors of Orthodoxy around here too. Maybe Ad O can shed some light.
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