Investment Advisor

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BearBones
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Investment Advisor

Post by BearBones » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:08 pm

Hi you all. It has been a while, in part because I got paralyzed in my investment approach this past few years. I am increasingly realizing that, while I generally trust myself (and you all) more than most "professionals," I do not trust myself to review the portfolio and rebalance regularly. My assets are scattered thought all sorts of tax deferred and taxable accounts, a PP and a VP, and I just have grown to HATE IT (especially when I'm doing poorly compared to those in traditional portfolios). When I retire, I can consolidate a bit, but my desire for spending time on this is fading quickly.

Do any of you have any suggestion on some outside management resource? If the assets are large, I am participating in the decisions about asset mix, and the individual assets are simple, it would be nice to keep the cost in the .1-.3% range at most. Vanguard will help me for .2% but they are pretty inflexible in their ability to go beyond a typical boglehead mix (they hate gold and do not understand LTTs, from what I can see).

I REALLY appreciate your suggestions.

Bones
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Mountaineer
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Re: Investment Advisor

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:52 pm

Might not be able to do a PP portfolio, but you might consider an all-in-one Vanguard Retirement portfolio- might be “good enough “ to meet your desire for simplicity and reasonable returns at low cost expense ratio and require no management fee up front.
I marvel at the creation - its beauty, its endurance, its complexity. I marvel that man can make complex things but is incapable of making even the simplest living organism - a blade of grass, a tree, an ant, an amoeba.
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Desert
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Re: Investment Advisor

Post by Desert » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:16 pm

Bones,

I'm not thinking too positively regarding you finding a trusted advisor that will keep your investments in an HBPP while charging a reasonable fee. It should be possible to find such a person, but the industry compensation drives advisors to charge a 1 percent AUM in exchange for setting up your investments in the way the advisor sees fit.

If I were in your shoes, I'd work to consolidate your accounts first (for example, roll all tax deferred accounts into a single Vanguard IRA, and all taxable accounts into a single Vanguard taxable account). Then I'd move all tax-deferred funds into a single Vanguard fund, such as the Target Retirement Income Fund, VTINX. This is a 30/70 fund that should perform a lot like the HBPP minus the gold. You could build a gold allocation in your taxable account, if desired. Simplifying the taxable fund investments will be more difficult, since there are tax implications.

But if all this sounds like way too much work, I'd find a fee-only advisor to do all this for you, one time. With things setup simply, rebalancing will be largely unnecessary, but simple to do if desired.
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Re: Investment Advisor

Post by Dmilligan » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:30 pm

http://alankemp.ca/how-we-work#permanent

I follow this investment advisor on Twitter. They manage a Permanent Portfolio on behalf of customers (both a US and a Canadian). They are located in Canada. I enjoy reading their quarterly commentary on the performance of the Permanent Portfolio. Other than that, I have not used them and I do not know anything about their fees.

I second Desert's thoughts. My investment advisor took up more of my time than the PP does and required more decisions. Once the PP is set up, there really isn't anything to do except occasionally look at it. I run a PP in predominately taxable accounts, so am using 35/15 rebalance bands. In the past 6 years, I've only rebalanced maybe once or twice. My investment advisor used to take up more of my time than that--and he cost a lot more than my current PP expense ratios.
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Re: Investment Advisor

Post by Pointedstick » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:39 pm

Desert is absolutely right. Consolidate, consolidate, consolidate. I've consolidated my accounts into as few as possible, and I have them all at Vanguard and am happy as a clam. Super simple, easy auto-investment, great fund choices. No downsides, really.

Your actual portfolio doesn't really matter. If managing it is keeping you up at night, then move over time into something easier to manage. Life is too short to worry about managing money. Money is supposed to make life easier, not harder.
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ochotona
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Re: Investment Advisor

Post by ochotona » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:56 pm

I second the notion of getting an inexpensive, one all-in-one investment product, and holding gold on the side.

Look at AOK from iShares.

If you hold 25% gold and 75% AOK, you get 25% global equities, 50% fixed income of various kinds, and of course, 25% gold.
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pugchief
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Re: Investment Advisor

Post by pugchief » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:52 pm

BB,
If you really want an investment advisor but still like the PP concept, I suggest you call Meb Faber at Cambria Investments. They are open to various risk managed options.

http://www.cambriainvestments.com/
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Re: Investment Advisor

Post by Mr Vacuum » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:01 pm

As a point of clarification on fees, with an all-in-one fund, do you have to add the weighted average fees of the constituent funds to get an accurate picture of costs? For example, AOK has a net expense ratio of .25%. Do you add about 10 basis points for IVV, IEMG, etc? Even if so, that's still not bad in the iShares or Vanguard index world, but I'd fear for those getting a double whammy in expensive 401k offerings.
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ochotona
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Re: Investment Advisor

Post by ochotona » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:14 am

Some all in one products are a rip off, charging 1%. iShares AOK AOM AOR AOA series cost 25 basis points, period. No fees beyond that.
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Re: Investment Advisor

Post by sophie » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:00 am

Bearbones, good to hear from you!!!

Desert & PS are right: what can you do to simplify your investment structure? Then if you still need to hire an advisor, there will be less for them to do (and screw up).

If you want to post a list of accounts and their relative (not absolute) sizes, maybe we can offer suggestions. Is part of the problem trying to implement a sprawling PP across non-gold-friendly accounts?
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Re: Investment Advisor

Post by tennpaga » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:04 pm

BearBones wrote:Hi you all. It has been a while, in part because I got paralyzed in my investment approach this past few years. I am increasingly realizing that, while I generally trust myself (and you all) more than most "professionals," I do not trust myself to review the portfolio and rebalance regularly. My assets are scattered thought all sorts of tax deferred and taxable accounts, a PP and a VP, and I just have grown to HATE IT (especially when I'm doing poorly compared to those in traditional portfolios). When I retire, I can consolidate a bit, but my desire for spending time on this is fading quickly.

Do any of you have any suggestion on some outside management resource? If the assets are large, I am participating in the decisions about asset mix, and the individual assets are simple, it would be nice to keep the cost in the .1-.3% range at most. Vanguard will help me for .2% but they are pretty inflexible in their ability to go beyond a typical boglehead mix (they hate gold and do not understand LTTs, from what I can see).
BB

I will echo the suggestion offered by Desert, PS, and sophie: Forgo the outside management and consolidate your savings into as few providers and accounts as possible. Going with Vanguard ought to give you access to ETF's, which will give you the opportunity to purchase a gold ETF, if you want to stay in the PP.
* Gresham's Law: Bad behavior drives out good.
* Gresham's corollary: Avoid participating in systems where good behavior cannot win.

https://fs.blog/2009/12/mental-model-greshams-law/
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Re: Investment Advisor

Post by dualstow » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:55 am

If you do go outside, maybe you could try that Allan Roth guy. He charges a one-time fee, and I hear it's pretty reasonable.
That way you would (A) never say to yourself, I wish I had gotten an advisor, but
can (B) get back on the right track without having a long-time advisor get his hooks into you, with fees that drag everything down.
ethnic: "pagan, heathen," Greek ethnikos ".. national," from ethnos "band of people living together, nation, people, tribe, caste,"..Earlier in English as a noun, "a heathen, pagan, one who is not a Christian or Jew" (c. 1400)
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