Vaccines

Other discussions not related to the Permanent Portfolio

Moderator: Global Moderator

User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14225
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Vaccines

Post by dualstow » Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:09 am

There is often an interesting take on things here at this forum.
I don't get shots out of a sense of duty. I do it because I don't want to catch these diseases and I believe this is an easy and effective way to reduce my chances of doing so.

I don't expect to catch them or am I not trembling with fear, but by the same token if my friend has a cold I won't rush to shake hands with him and then rub my eyes.

When I visited Taiwan annually, I didn't get travel shots, but when going to unfamiliar territory (e.g. Honduras), I went to a travel clinic and got the works.

All opinions are my own / not intending to dispense medical advice / etc etc
RIP Marcello Gandini
User avatar
jafs
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 817
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:23 am

Re: Vaccines

Post by jafs » Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:47 am

I think the issue of duty or responsibility comes into play more with children.

Whether or not an adult chooses to get vaccinated seems to me more of an individual choice, which may affect others, but doesn't necessarily involve those aspects.

But, if you have children, you have a responsibility to care for them well, and make choices that are good for them.  And, if you bring them around other children, then your responsibility extends in some way to those other children as well.

Of course, if you're unvaccinated adult, then you shouldn't go to public parks where there are young children around who may not be vaccinated.

Like many issues, this one shows how issues of individual freedom and social responsibility are complex.
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Vaccines

Post by MachineGhost » Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:38 am

dualstow wrote: But seriously. MG is a great guy. I just don't understand why his recommendation has more weight than pretty much every physician out there.
Because I'm not an unwitting tool for Big Pharma?  It's not as if literally every physician kowtows to the propaganda conga line, but they're not going to be public about it due to career risk.  That's simply not a factor for me.

If you think a rash is what is considered an adverse event to vaccines, you're woefully ignorant.  You're trivializing the permanent damage (if not death) that unproven and untested vaccines are doing to innocent children.  The latest is the HPV vaccine is now causing premature ovary failure.  Fucking wonderful.

Seriously, it should be old hat by now that just about every damn industry suppresses damaging information and conspires with government to do so or vice versa.  Profit or public policy -- there's ambition behind either motive.  Why is it so hard not to be in denial?  Is it just too scary on any number of levels to think that Big Government is lying to you?  Well, it's reality.  Deal with it or it will deal with you.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Vaccines

Post by MachineGhost » Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:45 am

Reub wrote: So vaccines are settled science too?
I think you can only make that claim about the first or second generation vaccines based on actual evidence.  The latest stuff (the creepy transgenic DNA from other species) is simply insufficiently tested (if at all) -- both in bomb dosing protocols, toxic excipients and efficacy itself.  Keep in mind the way the FDA works is they rely on the fox guarding the henhouse to provide the "safety data" for any approval.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Vaccines

Post by MachineGhost » Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:00 am

Pointedstick wrote: Being vaccinated is a duty: you accept a small amount of personal risk in exchange for strengthening your whole society. And even on an individual level, if you are even remotely capable of weighing risk vs reward, getting vaccinated is a no-brainer. You're going to need your personal immunity if eradicable diseases break out due to the anti-vax movement.
So your kids outright dying, becoming permanently disabled, brain damaged or unable to conceive is accepting a "small personal amount of risk" from unproven and untested vaccines?  From a public policy standpoint the benefit is not for your own kids, but for other kids.  That's what "herd immunity" implies.  The so-called authorities don't care if your kids happen to be a casuality on the way to that ideological ideal.  Why should they?  They have no skin in the game.

The funny thing is all the outbreaks so far have been largely happening in those that were already vaccinated.  So the vaccines don't work in the vaccinated against the non-vaccinated?!!  Fuck wow.  Brilliant.  I'm sure that got an excuse for that one.  Mutation it looks like?  Whatever it takes to cover up the incompetence.  Do I need to remind anyone that theres no longer a competitive free market in vaccines and there certainly isn't a litigation feedback loop anymore either?

You have to be very, very careful about making assumptions on the vaccination topic with the public policy brainwashing we've all received for decades.  What we reflexively knee-jerk in assuming to be true (scientifically proven, efficacious, safe, herd immunity, non-vaccinated infecting vaccinated, etc.) can be like the emperor wearing no clothes.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Vaccines

Post by MachineGhost » Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:12 am

Pointedstick wrote: Who said anything about fines or imprisonment? I'm pretty sure all vaccines are voluntary.
Its becoming mandatory in many states although citizen protests seem to have slowed it down.  I believe it is now mandatory in CA.  That is the strict definition of tyranny and authoritarianism no different than living in the former USSR.

Don't be such fucking patsy just because its all seductively wrapped up in the color of "science" and everyone and their mother believes it is inviolate.  I see the same hallmarks of intolerance to dissent and denial of facts in pro-vaccination ideology that were present in the food pyramid, global warming, trans-fat, saturated fat/cholesterol, etc..  You do realize the people involved in making these public policy decisions for the rest of us are the transnational elite, right???
Last edited by MachineGhost on Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Vaccines

Post by MachineGhost » Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:19 am

MediumTex wrote: It seems like this is a 100% hypothetical and academic discussion for most of us.
Every year I get a schedule chart showing the list of vaccinations I should have depending on my age.  Every year I also get a call from a nurse wanting me to fill out their comprehensive questionnaire about my health and needs.  And many followup calls.  And every year I ignore it all.  Do you honestly think Boobus Americanus is as intelligent, highly aware and as flippantly militant about crony corruption as myself?

You guys reaaally aren't aware of how much you're all trivializing the risks from latter day vaccines just to maintain cognitive coherence. ::)  But hey, I should be used to it by now, right?
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Vaccines

Post by MachineGhost » Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:23 am

dualstow wrote: There is often an interesting take on things here at this forum.
I don't get shots out of a sense of duty. I do it because I don't want to catch these diseases and I believe this is an easy and effective way to reduce my chances of doing so.
Yes, I know.  You ignore the evidence showing they're ineffective because of your ineffective (old) immune system and also ignore the evidence showing the risks don't outweigh the paucity, if any, benefit.

In other words, you're engaging in security theatre based on false pretenses and feel good about it.  But the flu vaccine is a bit of a different beast than what is being given to vulnerable children.  It just doesn't have dramatic life changing side effects other than giving you shingles or neurodamage.

The relentless tit sucking at vaccination around here makes me sick.  It is the very last vestige of trust in Omniscient Big Government leftover from the naive 1950's.  It just cannot implode soon enough.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
User avatar
WildAboutHarry
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1090
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 9:35 am

Re: Vaccines

Post by WildAboutHarry » Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:43 am

[quote=MachineGhost]The relentless tit sucking at vaccination around here makes me sick.  [/quote]

I'm sure there is a vaccine for that!  :)

Seriously, for me it is a simple equation.  Are the risk and consequences of an adverse reaction to a vaccine greater than the same for the disease?  If so, avoid the vaccine.  If not, get the shot.

Most of the "big ones" - smallpox, polio, diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, etc. -- dispatched diseases with potentially horrible outcomes.  I predate the measles vaccine, but I did have measles and developed a potentially life-threatening measles-related condition.  So I'd go for the measles vaccine on that basis as well.

In the very old days, sick individuals with certain diseases were quarantined in their homes.  Kind of totalitarian, no?  And quarantine still an option today.

[quote=CDC]The list of quarantinable diseases is contained in an Executive Order of the President and includes cholera, diphtheria, infectious tuberculosis, plague, smallpox, yellow fever, viral hemorrhagic fevers (such as Marburg, Ebola, and Congo-Crimean), and severe acute respiratory syndromes.[/quote]
It is the settled policy of America, that as peace is better than war, war is better than tribute.  The United States, while they wish for war with no nation, will buy peace with none"  James Madison
User avatar
BearBones
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 689
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:26 pm

Re: Vaccines

Post by BearBones » Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:50 am

MachineGhost wrote: Don't be such fucking patsy just because its all seductively wrapped up in the color of "science" and everyone and their mother believes it is inviolate.  I see the same hallmarks of intolerance to dissent and denial of facts in pro-vaccination ideology that were present in the food pyramid, global warming, trans-fat, saturated fat/cholesterol, etc..  You do realize the people involved in making these public policy decisions for the rest of us are the transnational elite, right???
MachineGhost wrote: The relentless tit sucking at vaccination around here makes me sick.  It is the very last vestige of trust in Omniscient Big Government leftover from the naive 1950's.
I posted this for a reason. Because I am open to both sides, and I am curious as to whether others have factual data to support one position or another. Conspiracy theories and vulgar, inflammatory language ("I am right and the majority of you are complete idiots") kind of stuff does not do your position any justice.

Can you provide some factual data to support your position, please?
Last edited by BearBones on Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14225
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Vaccines

Post by dualstow » Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:23 am

ADDED A MIDDLE PARAGRAPH

MG, my doctor is not a patsy of Big Pharma or a lover of big government. If the scientific community and/or my physician comes around to your viewpoint, that'd be the time for me to rethink things.

There are a lot of charlatans who sell herbal supplements by making a bad guy out of the (admittedly problematic) pharmaceutical industry. I'm not comparing them to you, but I am saying that you both claim, "This industry is evil and full of lies, so what I have to tell you is true."

But, if I have to choose between my own doc & a general scientific consensus vs Opinionated Guy on the Internet (that's you), I'm going with my doctor.
Last edited by dualstow on Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
RIP Marcello Gandini
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Vaccines

Post by MachineGhost » Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:29 pm

WildAboutHarry wrote: Seriously, for me it is a simple equation.  Are the risk and consequences of an adverse reaction to a vaccine greater than the same for the disease?  If so, avoid the vaccine.  If not, get the shot.
Don't we only have vaccines for diseases with horrobile outcomes?  The flu shot doesn't really count since thats more marketing fiction for profit than substance.

How do you decide that the risk of premature ovary failure (among many other negative, scary effects) in your pre-teen daughter is acceptable compared to the chance of getting a virus from sexual activity that might cause cervical cancer?  How can you even accurately judge the risk and probabilities when there is no transparency and insufficient data except for the most blatantly obvious?  Adverse events to vaccines are VOLUNTARILY REPORTED -- how well do you think that works as a monitoring system?  Are physicians considered to be the "transnational elite"???
Last edited by MachineGhost on Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Vaccines

Post by MachineGhost » Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:17 pm

MachineGhost wrote: The relentless tit sucking at vaccination around here makes me sick.  It is the very last vestige of trust in Omniscient Big Government leftover from the naive 1950's.
I posted this for a reason. Because I am open to both sides, and I am curious as to whether others have factual data to support one position or another. Conspiracy theories and vulgar, inflammatory language ("I am right and the majority of you are complete idiots") kind of stuff does not do your position any justice.

Can you provide some factual data to support your position, please?
[/quote]

As I previously mentioned, adverse events to vaccines are voluntarily reported (if they're even recognized and/or submitted), so we don't have full transparency.  The other problem is the CDC actively REFUSES to study vaccines long-term safety after approval (they just ignore the vaccine adverse event reports) 

But what we can do is look at the records from the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) where almost $3 billion has been paid out to over 4,000 families: http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation ... report.pdf

VICP:
83 Cases of Autism: http://digitalcommons.pace.edu/cgi/view ... ntext=pelr

Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS):
30,000 Average Reports Each Year: https://vaers.hhs.gov/about/index

Measles:
108 Babies Dead: http://www.globalresearch.ca/measles-va ... es/5429736

MMR:
CDC Whistblower about Fraudulent Paper Long Used by Pro-Vaxxers Showing No Connection to Autism: http://i65.tinypic.com/2ywd5k1.jpg
Autism in Blacks: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2902521/
New Researcher ReAnalyzes CDC Whistleblower's Data (almost 25% higher rate of autism or 340% higher after 36 months): http://translationalneurodegeneration.b ... -9158-3-16
CDC Whistleblower Revealed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGOtDVilkUc
New Researcher & CDC Whistleblower: http://www.ageofautism.com/2014/08/whis ... -mont.html
CBS Report About Vaccine Manufacturer's Financial Support of Medical Journals: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-indepen ... defenders/

HPV:
Premature Ovary Failure: http://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speak ... us-vaccine
Scientific Misconduct: http://sanevax.org/wp-content/uploads/2 ... -GACVS.pdf
Postmortem DNA Fragments: http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInfor ... erID=25840
Merck's Former Doctor: http://www.collective-evolution.com/201 ... -all-time/
AutoImmune Problems: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 1/abstract

Adjuvants:
Aluminum: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14871632
Aluminum: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22099159
Formaldehyde: https://www3.epa.gov/airtoxics/hlthef/formalde.html
Borax: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbo ... able-2.pdf

Flu:
Security Theatre: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... ccine.aspx
Hospitals Penalized If Not Meeting Vaccinaton Quotas: http://khn.org/news/medicare-hospitals- ... urchasing/
Financially Driven, Not Safety Driven: http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/are-ma ... acilities/

Pro-Vaxxer Propaganda:
"Science is Settled": http://time.com/3947855/vaccine-poll-antivaxxers/
"How To Change an Anti-Vaxxer's Mind": http://time.com/3982723/changing-minds-vaccines/

Okay, that's all I can do for now.  Burned out.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
User avatar
BearBones
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 689
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:26 pm

Re: Vaccines

Post by BearBones » Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:43 pm

MachineGhost wrote: Okay, that's all I can do for now.  Burned out.
Thanks!
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Vaccines

Post by MachineGhost » Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:49 pm

dualstow wrote: There are a lot of charlatans who sell herbal supplements by making a bad guy out of the (admittedly problematic) pharmaceutical industry. I'm not comparing them to you, but I am saying that you both claim, "This industry is evil and full of lies, so what I have to tell you is true."

But, if I have to choose between my own doc & a general scientific consensus vs Opinionated Guy on the Internet (that's you), I'm going with my doctor.
Fair enough.  I don't think Big Pharma is evil, but it is breathtaking how corrupt it being in bed with the Big Government that is supposed to regulate it.  Without health freedom, everything else is truly meaningless.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Vaccines

Post by MachineGhost » Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:04 am

Addendum

HPV:
Young Age HPV Infection == Later Cancer Unproven: https://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.as ... eid=184404
HPV Lead Research Speaks Out: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/gardasil-re ... peaks-out/

(There's 100 different types of HPV; only 15 might develop into cancer, someday; the HPV vaccine only targets a measly two.)

Adverse Outcomes (Anecdotal, Viewer Discretion Advised):
https://www.pinterest.com/wholewheatgai ... r-stories/
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Vaccines

Post by MachineGhost » Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:40 am

IDrinkBloodLOL wrote: That said, out of curiosity, what would health freedom look like?
That depends on whether you want the utopian answer or the pragmatic answer.  Be either way, the transnational elite won't like it.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
User avatar
WildAboutHarry
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1090
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 9:35 am

Re: Vaccines

Post by WildAboutHarry » Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:08 pm

MachineGhost wrote: How can you even accurately judge the risk and probabilities when there is no transparency and insufficient data except for the most blatantly obvious?
Smallpox is blatantly obvious.  Polio is blatantly obvious.  Diphtheria is blatantly obvious.  Pertussis is blatantly obvious.  Tetanus is blatantly obvious.  MMR have sufficient serious sequelae (couldn't resist the alliteration) to just about be blatantly obvious.  Varicella vaccine is just about blatantly obvious.  This, to me, is pretty simple risk management.

I get the desire to not take any risk with vaccination.  And there is a kind of tragedy of the commons aspect to this, where non-vaccinated individuals get a free ride if sufficient numbers of the population are vaccinated.

And while I am no fan of California's guvment, its recently mandated vaccinations for school children include the big ones.  Not HPV, etc.
Simonjester wrote: i am a bit leery of vaccination programs as they stand now... not because vaccinations are a bad idea... but the modern implementation seems highly questionable. the idea of vaccinations being given from minutes after birth and at what seems like very young ages, multiple illness vaccinations where they are all combined together, and questionable ingredients, all sound scary/unnecessary to me... i have no skin in the game so i haven't done any deep research and i probably wont bother until i have a need to know, but based on the limited knowledge i have now, i would be inclined to wait till the kids were older, use individual vaccinations instead of cocktails, and take great care, go to extra expense to get clean ingredients vs the "who knows what" they seem to be putting in many of them..
It is the settled policy of America, that as peace is better than war, war is better than tribute.  The United States, while they wish for war with no nation, will buy peace with none"  James Madison
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Vaccines

Post by MachineGhost » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:13 pm

WildAboutHarry wrote: I get the desire to not take any risk with vaccination.  And there is a kind of tragedy of the commons aspect to this, where non-vaccinated individuals get a free ride if sufficient numbers of the population are vaccinated.
That's an excellent observation.  I have thought of it recently also.  The whole issue is just a tragedy.  But my understanding of the Tragedy of the Commons was that the Supreme Court neutered any further private civil or criminal litigation against polluters.  And the same exact thing happened with vaccine manufacturers.  We now rely on the corruptible government for enforcement against multi-property infringing pollution and protecting us from dangerous vaccines.  I am arguing that it has not worked out very well in the latter case.  There's no skin in the game.  There's no responsibility.  There's no accountability.  And children and parents are the victims.  How big does the problem have to get before the transnational elite realize they have a SNAFU on their hands? ::)
And while I am no fan of California's guvment, its recently mandated vaccinations for school children include the big ones.  Not HPV, etc.
Slippery slope.  Some jurisdictions are already giving or mandating the HPV vaccine for elementary school girls.  Liberals can be Zombie Zealots when it comes to public policy initiatives.  Big Government can do no wrong.

As far as the old school vaccines that we all got on a relatively luxurious schedule, they don't exist anymore.  They're now in "improved, modern" but unproven bomb doses and formulations.  Even if you take out of all the toxic adjuvants and preservatives, you've still got the problem of unproven efficacy and unaccounted for side effects.  We can't even get our food labeled to reflect GMOs despite overwhelming public support, so I'm not holding my breath that the CDC and vaccine manufacturer's feel any feedback mechanism.  Otherwise, they would transparently address all of the issues head on instead of turning more and more stubborn and repressive.  What are they hiding?
Last edited by MachineGhost on Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Vaccines

Post by MachineGhost » Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:07 pm

Interesting and just sent to my rep:
I understand the California legislature is considering a bill, AB2638, that would protect physicians' rights to write medical exemptions to vaccination without fear of discipline or liability. I'm writing to urge you to support this important bill.

Since the passing of SB277, which eliminated all non-medical exemptions to vaccination, many doctors are refusing to write medical exemptions to anyone for any reason. This is because California law currently provides physicians freedom from liability for administering vaccinations, but not from writing medical exemptions.

In this environment, where physicians are denying medical exemptions to patients with qualifying medical circumstances due to fear of retaliation, the health of our most vulnerable patients is at risk.

The right of parents to make informed decisions regarding their children's health was seriously undercut by SB 277. It is critical that physicians feel empowered to grant qualifying patients medical exemptions to vaccination. Vaccines are not 100% safe, and some react more strongly than others to routine vaccinations. Please protect doctors qualified to make these judgments and allow them to protect our children!

Please support AB 2638.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Vaccines

Post by MachineGhost » Sat May 07, 2016 2:48 pm

Looks like "they" got to the CDC whistleblower.

[quote=https://www.focusforhealth.org/dr-brian ... -thompson/]Regardless of the content of Dr. Thompson’s reanalysis paper, these facts remain:

1. CDC scientists colluded to cover up a relationship between the timing of the MMR vaccine and autism in African Americans that was first discovered in November of 2001. Rather than reporting the results to the public, all data regarding this relationship were destroyed at a secret meeting held some time in August/September of 2002. This fact has been affirmed via an affidavit given by Dr. Thompson to Rep. Bill Posey in September, 2014.

2. Dr. Thompson attempted to warn the CDC Director at the time, Dr. Julie Gerberding, regarding this relationship, prior to the February 2004 Institute of Medicine meeting on vaccines and autism. Rather than allowing Dr. Thompson to present the information at this meeting, Dr. Gerberding replaced him as a speaker with Dr. Frank Destefano, current director of the CDC’s Immunization Safety Office, where he presented fraudulent results regarding the MMR vaccine and autism. Dr. Thompson was put on administrative leave and was threatened that he would be fired due to “insubordination.”

3. When Dr. Thompson attempted to leave the CDC later that same year, he was given a $24,000 retention bonus. Dr. Thompson’s impression of the timing of this bonus, in light of disciplinary actions taken against him earlier that year, is that CDC officials were “buying his silence” through controlling his actions as a CDC employee.

4. Dr. Thompson has published two papers linking thimerosal exposure in infant vaccines to tics in boys (Thompson et al. 2007 and Barile et al. 2012). CDC fraudulently maintains on their website that “There is no evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site.” (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/). The tic result was also affirmed in the earlier CDC publication by Verstraeten et al. (2003) and the Andrews et al. (2004) publication.

5. CDC pressured Dr. Thompson to downplay the tic result of his analysis in his 2007 paper. He was instructed to deemphasize the tic result by the CDC’s Chief Science Officer, Dr. Tanja Popovic, by emphasizing that the “major finding of the study” was “there is NO associations (sic) of thimerosal exposure with the great majority of the outcomes.” Dr. Popovic also instructed Dr. Thompson to interpret any negative outcomes as “chance findings.”

6. CDC also pressured Dr. Thompson to withhold publication of his 2012 paper which reported a relationship between thimerosal and tics. Dr. Ed Travathan, head of the CDC’s National Center for Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities, stated in an April 27, 2009 memo to him that the analysis was sound except for the tic results and that they should be omitted from the publication. Since the tic result was the only result that had a consistent negative relationship with thimerosal exposure, it seemed that Dr. Thompson’s superiors were specifically concerned that thimerosal’s safety and use not be questioned. As an epidemiologist, Dr. Thompson was justifiably concerned and critical of the CDC’s action to approve the paper for publication only after the CDC took the extraordinary step of adding an expert in tics to water down the paper to state, “This finding should be interpreted with caution due to limitations in the measurement of tics and the limited biological plausibility regarding a causal relationship.”
[/quote]
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
User avatar
BearBones
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 689
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:26 pm

Re: Vaccines

Post by BearBones » Sat May 07, 2016 3:08 pm

MachineGhost wrote: Regardless of the content of Dr. Thompson’s reanalysis paper...
Explain this part?
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9422
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Vaccines

Post by vnatale » Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:27 pm

The flu vaccine?

I'm gathering that, for the most part, this is a fairly advanced aged group here. Prime group for that flu shot.

I've never had one. My doctor last year around this time recommended it to me and I said Yes. But somehow on the way out at the checkout desk no one flagged me to go wherever to get it. So, I did not get it that day.

Earlier this year I read an entire book on the flu - both its history and the effectiveness of the flu vaccine.

What I'm remembering is that they need to guess nine months in advance which flu strain is going to be prevalent. If their guess is correct, the vaccine is 75% effective. If wrong guess, then only 25% effective.

I have no plans to see my doctor again until next summer so I will not be in his office again for him to recommend me getting it this year.

How many of you here get your annual flu shot. And, this question just came to me: if you have a spouse or partner, do they make the same choice as you?

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
User avatar
Maddy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:43 am

Re: Vaccines

Post by Maddy » Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:09 pm

No--my strategy is to avoid the bugs to begin with. If I do begin to feel like I'm coming down with something, elderberry tincture + Vitamin C always seem to do the trick.

I think I gave WiseOne some angst a couple of years ago when, after falling on a barbed wire fence, I struggled with the question whether to get a tetanus shot. It had been 30 or so years, so in that case it probably would have been prudent. However, I got my hackles up over the fact that all of the available tetanus vaccines came with other vaccines added in. The paternalism of the public health establishment made me mad, and Lord I'm stubborn when I'm mad.
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9422
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Vaccines

Post by vnatale » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:23 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:09 pm
I get a flu shot every September, usually at Walgreens. I just had my annual physical, and since it has been 10 years since my last tetanus vaccine, I got one of those, too. Yes it is mixed with pertussis (whooping cough), but since I have grandkids it's supposed to be a good idea to have that protection. I will be getting the shingles vaccine next month.
I go to Stop & Shop and I see these free flu shots signs. And, I assume that they would be free to me being on Medicare. But I don't know how much time is involved in actually getting one. When I go to Stop & Shop I'm an extremely quick in and out person and would not want to have to spend much time getting that show.

I believe I did get a tetanus shot at one of my annual physicals.

Since I'm on zero medication I've chosen the least monthly cost Medicare drug plan, which of course offers the least coverage.

I think the shingles vaccine was, therefore, going to be in the neighborhood of $300 or $400 for me to get it?

Again, I can afford it and it would not ever dent my lifestyle but I've not yet got it. I think my doctor was talking to me about getting it just about the time a new version was just coming out?

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
Post Reply