Where did you go to School?

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Libertarian666
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by Libertarian666 » Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:46 pm

WiseOne wrote:
WildAboutHarry wrote: California State University, Chico.  B.A. in Biological Sciences 1978 (G.I. Bill, tuition about $98 per semester for all the units you could stand, if I recall correctly).
California State University, Chico.  M.A. in Botany 1980
University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.  Ph.D. in Botany 1983
So is Bernie Sanders onto a good thing then?

Government paying tuition might actually stop the vicious cycle of tuition increases, egged on by the easy availability of student loans.  And it would be far less painful than the only other way to stop the cycle:  stop providing student loans.
No, there's another way: allow student loans, but also allow them to be discharged in bankruptcy, perhaps after a minimum time period (to prevent gaming the system by newly-graduated doctors, etc.). That would force the lenders to underwrite the loans properly, which would stop the escalation of costs.
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by dualstow » Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:02 pm

Well, come on, you've got to bold the G.I. Bill part, too.
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by WiseOne » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:35 am

Libertarian666 wrote: No, there's another way: allow student loans, but also allow them to be discharged in bankruptcy, perhaps after a minimum time period (to prevent gaming the system by newly-graduated doctors, etc.). That would force the lenders to underwrite the loans properly, which would stop the escalation of costs.
But almost by definition, every graduating student with a fistful of loans has a highly negative net worth and no assets to speak of.  You'd have to either require parents to cosign or make going through bankruptcy harder.  When your credit score is already in the toilet, you have nothing to lose.  That's way too easy.
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by Libertarian666 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:23 am

WiseOne wrote:
Libertarian666 wrote: No, there's another way: allow student loans, but also allow them to be discharged in bankruptcy, perhaps after a minimum time period (to prevent gaming the system by newly-graduated doctors, etc.). That would force the lenders to underwrite the loans properly, which would stop the escalation of costs.
But almost by definition, every graduating student with a fistful of loans has a highly negative net worth and no assets to speak of.  You'd have to either require parents to cosign or make going through bankruptcy harder.  When your credit score is already in the toilet, you have nothing to lose.  That's way too easy.
Right, which is why I said that they would have to wait a minimum time before getting the loans discharged in bankruptcy, maybe 7 years? That would reduce gaming the system while not keeping them in indentured servitude indefinitely.
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by Pointedstick » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:31 am

An alternative approach that might work well is to have the "loan" become instead a percentage cut of the graduate's future income for some period of time. That way schools would have an incentive not only to underwrite properly, but also to actually produce graduates who earn a decent income.
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by WildAboutHarry » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:00 am

[quote=dualstow]Well, come on, you've got to bold the G.I. Bill part, too.[/quote]

Right you are.  I spent 4 years in the Navy as an enlisted man making a ridiculously low salary (we did get a good salary bump in 1971) in exchange for a B.A. (and a semester of grad school).  Fair exchange, I think.  And I don't have a problem with GI Bill type of arrangements, where service is exchanged for some future benefit (college, trade school, etc.).  But one should have to give to get.  So I don't think I align with Bernie.
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by Tyler » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:14 pm

Libertarian666 wrote: No, there's another way: allow student loans, but also allow them to be discharged in bankruptcy, perhaps after a minimum time period (to prevent gaming the system by newly-graduated doctors, etc.). That would force the lenders to underwrite the loans properly, which would stop the escalation of costs.
If we make student loans dischargeable in bankruptcy again I also love the idea of putting the schools on the hook for half the money.  Providing a monetary incentive for colleges to graduate employable students with manageable debt would be a wonderful development. 
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by Greg » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:26 pm

Tyler wrote:
Libertarian666 wrote: No, there's another way: allow student loans, but also allow them to be discharged in bankruptcy, perhaps after a minimum time period (to prevent gaming the system by newly-graduated doctors, etc.). That would force the lenders to underwrite the loans properly, which would stop the escalation of costs.
If we make student loans dischargeable in bankruptcy again I also love the idea of putting the schools on the hook for half the money.  Providing a monetary incentive for colleges to graduate employable students with manageable debt would be a wonderful development.
Would this have to be linked to GPA at all? I would think someone would ideally be more employable if they had a 3.8 GPA versus a 2.1 GPA when graduating. If schools are on the hook or only get funding based on a percentage of the student's salary, I'd want to know whether I think this student can really earn money or not, not just based on their degree, but how strong they are as a student.
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:30 pm

Slippery slope here it would seem to incentivize giving better grades than warranted or massive curving.
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by Pointedstick » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:34 pm

Outside of academia and government, I don't think people care much about your GPA.
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:53 pm

I graduated with a 2.9/4.  I cannot ever recall where it mattered, other than senior year on-campus interviews where there was a cutoff below which companies would not talk with you.

The name, University of Illinois, coupled with an engineering degree, was all that ever mattered, and helped in a couple situations.
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by Pointedstick » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:35 pm

Desert wrote: Hey, just curious:  Did you ever consider UIUC, your hometown U?  I'm guessing you wanted to get out of town and go to a cooler place, but just wondering.
At the time I was still a flaming liberal and I wanted to go to the most incendiary left-wing institution I could find. My parents were also not-so-subtly guiding me in that direction. Finally, in high school, I abandoned math and science as soon as they became challenging so my grades in those subjects were poor; it's possible I might not have even been admitted to UIUC. So no, I did not consider it, although in retrospect I totally should have. It's easy to look back at that phase of my life and shake my head at how many silly decisions I made, but it's all turned out well regardless so I try not to beat myself up over it.
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by WiseOne » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:35 pm

Desert wrote:
WiseOne wrote: Johns Hopkins BS in EE.
University of Pennsylvania MD/PhD
WiseOne, that's an interesting path.  Did you go directly from the EE degree to med school?
I worked a couple years in between while deciding whether to take the plunge.  You might be surprised to learn there are quite a few engineers who go into medicine, and in fact EE is the major that has the highest medical school acceptance rate.  There's no such thing as a "premedical degree".  There's a core set of required courses that can fit into any college degree program.  Anyway it's worked out well, because there's a lot of engineering work in what I do now.

Of course at a place like Penn, "interesting backgrounds" has a whole new meaning. There was the Broadway actor who had a role in the musical "Hair", then went for his MD/PhD then medicine residency.  He used to sing his presentations on hospital rounds.  Awesome.
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by Tyler » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:58 pm

Desert wrote: I think some percentage of engineers go into industry and are very motivated by their jobs, but I've run into SO many engineers over the past 25 years that are not all that satisfied with their career path. 
Well, engineering is a broad field and it's possible to get stuck in a specialized track you don't care for.  There's also a great deal of burnout due to increasingly rapid development cycles.  But in general it's an excellent choice that can take you many directions in life.  The core skill engineering teaches you is how to solve problems. 

I've never really thought about EE's going into medicine.  Cool!  When can I get my Wifi implant?
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by WiseOne » Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:02 am

Yes, I agree - regardless of where you end up it's a great foundation - certainly far better than a "business" major or a liberal arts degree.  I just decided that while I wasn't unhappy in the industry job, I didn't see myself on that path long term.

Wireless implants are actually being developed as we speak!  I'm involved in a couple of DARPA grant applications in this area in fact.  Pretty out there stuff.

Also for general info, here's the list of courses you need for med school:  biology of some kind, preferably cell biology (1/2 year), inorganic and organic chemistry (1 year each), physics (1 year), calculus, English, and a foreign language.  That's it, and half that you should have from high school advanced placement courses.  My university had a natural sciences area major that let mediocre premed students satisfy those minimum requirements and then pad their GPAs with easy, worthless courses in psychology and anthropology.  Those were also the ones who would race into class to grab front row seats, try to sabotage your lab work, and play other little one-upmanship games.  A big reason why I waffled about going into medicine was that I wanted nothing to do with idiots like that.  Fortunately, medical school admissions committees agree.

Desert - where did your second-grade son get his information about medicine??  How those little guys are sponges for information.  Anyway he shouldn't expect to be making "a lot of money" unless he goes into a surgery specialty, and then he'll be too busy to spend it.
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by Pointedstick » Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:28 am

I have a brother-in-law who's a radiologist. Judging by the size of his house and the private schools he sends his kids to, I'd say it sure looks like he's making a boatload of money. But I know that was his explicit goal and he went into his specialty because of a supposedly favorable income-to-sanity ratio.
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by dualstow » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:56 pm

When I was a kid, there was a guy at our temple who was a radiologist. I only remember two things. He had a cool Ferrari, and he was so fat that he could barely fit into it.
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by WiseOne » Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:23 pm

Dualstow's radiologist is quite an image  :P  Sitting in the dark all day reading scans can do weird things to people.

Radiologists used to start at $400K (yes I consider that a boatload of money!) but that's changed in the past couple of years because the radiology CPT codes got completely slammed by the ongoing CMS reviews.  Those salaries are coming down for sure, or will very soon.

GPs and general pediatricians in private practice are somewhere not too far above $100K, definitely less than $200K.  Not that much more than engineers and probably less than that on a per-hour basis.  Don't forget that includes weekend, holiday and overnight call which can get pretty brutal.  I think that's the main reason why there are general neurologists in my department, apparently content to earn half of what they could get in private practice for exactly the same work modulo the call schedule.
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by dragoncar » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:11 pm

None of the above (AFAIK, the specific combination might be unique to dox me), but staying semi-on-topic I'll note (it is known) that I'm an EE who went into law.

p.s. I found learning about both subjects very rewarding, but practicing not so much.  Which is why I pursue FIRE
Last edited by dragoncar on Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by drumminj » Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:02 am

Not very active here, but thought I'd chime in given the # of UIUC grads.

University of Illinois, BS Computer Science, 2000.
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by Gabe » Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:54 am

University of New Mexico, BS Applied Mathematics, 2014. Was pretty close to a second BS in Computer Science, but settled for the minor and went to work instead.
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by murphy_p_t » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:55 am

BSME UIUC
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by Greg » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:57 am

So many people here for UIUC. No love for Penn State and Georgia Tech from others? :( boooo.... hah.
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:33 am

TennPaGa,

Eight years for a PhD, I wouldn't have had the patience!
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Re: Where did you go to School?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:09 pm

Ohio University 2008.
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