The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

[Benko]

Just bought a new waterpik and it did cost me $60 (probably are cheaper ones), but the nice thing is you can add the listerene or closys to the waterpik reservoir and use that to irrigate your mouth.

[Jack Jones]

As expected, Listerine and Crest Pro-Health demonstrated complete kill on all bacteria exposed within one minute. Breath Rx exhibited the weakest levels of bactericidal effects overall. CloSYS and chlorhexidine rinses proved identical 100% kills against the periodontal pathogens at five minutes; in some cases, CloSYS oral rinse achieved a higher kill at the one-minute mark over the chlorhexidine rinse.

It seems like there would be no benefit to using both, but I've definitely noticed a difference in breath quality after ceasing Closys use.

[MachineGhost]

Well, at least the regime is working!  Just to be safe I think I'll start taking in some dental probiotics afterwards.

[img width=800]http://i.imgur.com/ZVURhtL.png[/img]

[img width=800]http://i.imgur.com/rik4c9B.png[/img]

[MachineGhost]

It seems like there would be no benefit to using both, but I've definitely noticed a difference in breath quality after ceasing Closys use.

Since I used to be a non-meat eater at one time, I'm very sensitive to noticing "dragon breath" in myself and others.  I've observed that just doing the full routine with tongue scraping is not enough for complete knockout.  A substantial reduction of about, 80%, yes.  But for complete knockout you need to do this additional step: tilt your head back and deep throat gargle with the Listerine for a full 30 seconds after you're done doing the 1-min with your teeth.  Please use water to dilute if necessary because Listerine can burn incredibly painfully.  I get a proto-fainting feeling from the pain every time.

It also helps if you eat the correect servings of alkalizing/detoxing vegetables.  If you just eat an unbalanced meat heavy and carb-type meal and too close to bedtime, you're just gonna reek it up all night into your esophagus and throat.  The body "digests" meat by letting it literally rot.  So I don't think most people or dentists understand that "bad breath" is not just coming from bacteria in the mouth, it's coming from rotting fermentation and bacteria in the gastrointestinal tract.  People with "dogshit breath" have poor diets to say the least.

[MachineGhost]

Can you provide a source for this? Current theory [at least in the dental world] is that volatile sulfur compounds on the back half of the top of the tongue cause the vast majority of halitosis.

Naw, its empirical and clinical not academic.

[MachineGhost]

I have updated, enhanced and edited the regime in the OP.

http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ot ... re-regime/

[MachineGhost]

Good news! I have confirmed that Listerine Zero works as a replacement for original Listerine that contains alcohol. So no longer do you have to put up with the burn nor having your taste buds killed off. It is just as acidic too so that the last step works properly. Oddly though, some bottles do not list the essentials oils among the inactive ingredients and no bottle that I've seen ever lists them under active ingredients.

[rocketdog]

The evidence in support of flossing is weak at best, and probably non-existent:

Weak, unreliable evidence suggests flossing plus toothbrushing may be associated with a small reduction in plaque
http://www.nature.com/ebd/journal/v13/n ... 0835a.html

The Medical Benefit of Daily Flossing Called Into Question
http://www.ada.org/en/science-research/ ... o-question

When I heard this news I decided to try an experiment: I went between dental cleanings (4 months) without flossing once. Instead, I doubled the length of time I brushed my teeth (in essence, using the time when I would have been flossing to instead keep brushing).

Normally I get an admonition from my dentist to floss twice a day because the hygienist found a certain amount of plaque or tartar along my gum line. (Note: A few years ago I had 2 gum surgeries and a bone graft in a portion of my jaw due to receding gums).

After my 4-moth experiment, at my next check-up I got no admonition! Instead, the dentist said "Looks great! Keep up the good work!"

I realize this is anecdotal evidence, but I was truly surprised that neither the hygienist nor my dentist detected that I had not flossed my teeth for an entire 4 months.

P.S. - I should mention that I brush twice daily: in the mornings with a manual toothbrush, and in the evenings with a Sonicare electric toothbrush. I also chew Xylitol gum throughout the day, and have done so for years (ever since my gum surgeries). My periodontist recommended I chew Xylitol gum and use a Sonicare toothbrush, and I think they have helped to improve and maintain my dental health.

[mathjak107]

my wife is having awful teeth issues . another 10k this year in work after 6k last year and 4k the year before .

she made the mistake of having all her teeth capped 15 years ago . now bacteria is finally working it's way underneath and one by one her teeth are requiring root canals and new caps .

they are doing arestin treatment now . the dentist thought it could save us money if our medicare drug plan would pay for the arestin .

we got a letter back from aetna to say they would cover it . the drug store called to say there would a 1k co-pay on that drug .

we said forget it .

[mathjak107]

don't misunderstand -- yes, you can buy it with a prescription and typically it is a lot cheaper for the procedure if you buy it and provide it to the dentist if your insurer pays for it . so our dentist gave us the option as she would rather we got it so we could save money on the procedure . it is classified as a tier 3 drug with aetna and is a 1k co-pay . our supplement would pick it up except being pretty healthy she has a high deductible f-plan with a 2k out of pocket .

it really was not worth us buying it since we never come close to the 2k deductible . .

the dentist is providing it way cheaper and with application gets 65 bucks per tooth in nyc which is pretty reasonable here as some dentists get over 100 bucks per tooth .
there are only a few teeth needing it . . it is not being used instead of root canals . this is for the perio issues she has too .

all the other work is so extensive the dentist felt if we could save a few bucks by providing the arestin it would help since other drug plans cover it without a ridiculous co-pay .

but for the drugs we need aetna is great and co-pays are usually like 2 bucks . they just classify this one as way out of bounds evidently .

.

[blackomen]

Anyone try toothpaste with Novamin which I hear works even better than the Crest Cavity Protection paste recommended here? I hear it's banned in the US but not illegal per se and you can buy it off of Amazon, though at inflated prices. And one of the reasons it's banned is because it worked so well at remineralizing teeth that dentists feared they'd be out of a job so they lobbied the ADA.. at least that's what I've been told.

[Cortopassi]

Pug may question this, but as a 6 month experiment I have been brushing exclusively with Xylitol.

I am about 3 months in. There is no doubt that I have less plaque buildup and I have had zero gum issues. In the past, certainly every few weeks I'd have some level of gum irritation here or there for whatever reason, none since starting Xylitol.

You can search for how it works. And I'll give an update after my next checkup.

I'd also like to ask Pug, toothpaste is all marketing for the most part, right? If I look at "active" ingredients, it is mainly either Sodium Fluoride or Stannous Fluoride, and if I have one really expensive "Helps prevent bleeding gums" toothpaste with one vs. a cheaper alternative with the same active ingredient, they are basically the same?

[blackomen]

I had not previously heard of Novamin. Googling it, I found an NIH paper that states that the substance has promise as an anti cavity agent, perhaps superior to fluoride.

I assure you that the ADA and or other dental groups are not trying to prevent its use unless they feel it is unsafe for some reason. We as dentists are always trying to put ourselves out of business in the interest of public health, in spite of what the public believes.

Depending on what issue you are trying to solve with toothpaste, it's unlikely to be a panacea. Many of the formulations, particularly regarding whitening are mostly marketing. Some incarnations have shown promise in other areas. For instance, Pronamel has been shown to reminerailze enamel, but if you sip Coke all day and brush with it only once a week, you will likely still get cavities. Etc. Etc. Xylitol has also shown to be effective.

The best advice I can give you call is brsh, floss, Listerine and see your dentist twice a year. Doing ignore small problems as they will become large ones with time.

If it's only being used in some third world countries, then I'd be far more suspicious. But Novamine is in many consumer toothpastes in Canada and the UK. However, my knowledge of dentistry is limited so I think it's still best to compare its effectiveness with, say, good old Crest and see which one is more effective at fighting the minor cavities I have.. I've already noticed improvements in my sensitivity after using the Crest cavity toothpaste for like 2 months and I've ordered a sample of Novamine toothpaste from overseas due to arrive a in few weeks.

[WiseOne]

I kind of ignored the fluoride controversy for a while, but recently switched to a non-fluoride toothpaste. I figure that with the water fluoridated it doesn't make sense to double up given that NYC's water hovers around the EPA safe limit as it is. And also figured easier than messing around with reverse osmosis systems.

The one I'm using is Dr. Bronner's which uses coconut oil & flour. At my last checkup, the hygienist commented that my teeth were cleaner and with less plaque than usual. And, no cavities. Sample size of one visit but that's intriguing. I'm sticking with the plan.

[thisisallen]

Someone just recommended trying an ionic toothbrush. This article explains about it. Not many companies are selling it , and all from Japan. Anyone ever have success with this?

http://www.holistic-healing-information ... ushes.html

[Mountaineer]

Someone just recommended trying an ionic toothbrush. This article explains about it. Not many companies are selling it , and all from Japan. Anyone ever have success with this?

http://www.holistic-healing-information ... ushes.html

So how does the tooth surface retain its positive charge long enough to be effective? I don't think the mouth (and body) are perfect insulators.

[Mark Leavy]

It's really not that hard. Just stop eating carbohydrates.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK8259/

It balances the PH in your mouth (tartar, decay) and starves S mutans. (caries)

[thisisallen]

It's really not that hard. Just stop eating carbohydrates.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK8259/

It balances the PH in your mouth (tartar, decay) and starves S mutans. (caries)

Mark, isn’t that like “robbing Peter to pay Paul” because carbs have good benefits also, especially if you’re a vegetarian.
Using Xylitol mints or gum will create more saliva in your mouth to help keep the bacteria from damaging the teeth.

[Mark Leavy]

Of the four macro nutrients, Fat (9c/g) Alcohol (7c/g) Carbohydrates (4 c/g) Protein (4 c/g)

Only fat and protein are essential. Alcohol and carbohydrates are decent fuel - tasty and will keep you alive and happy - just slightly poisonous and disastrous to your liver, skin, teeth and arteries. 100% optional. The teeth and gums are the canary in the coal mine. If you are having trouble with caries or periodontitis, then you have crossed the carbohydrate line. There is no other answer - back off.

I do like carbs and alcohol, so I consume my share now and then. But I don't pretend that either are good for me in any way.

Some bourbon now and then. Some sticky rice now and then. Damn fine. But not essential.

Eggs and hamburger and free weights and hill climbing cover everything you need to live a completely healthy (and dentist free) life. A margarita and a taco will add some fun to that healthy life. But if you have too many you'll be handing some of your portfolio over to MangoMan - who is a decent guy and deserves all of the money you give him.

[Mark Leavy]

...
Just curious where you get your fiber from if you aren't eating any carbs other than occasional sticky rice? You'd have to eat a boatload of the right veggies to get the recommended quantity. Btw, I thought your preferred alcohol was red wine with your steak?

Wine or bourbon or rum - depending on where in the world I am. It's hard to get decent wine in the tropics.

The popular belief that dietary fiber is somehow necessary for gut health is just another fallacy. I've had minimal to none over the last 10 years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/

[Cortopassi]

...
Just curious where you get your fiber from if you aren't eating any carbs other than occasional sticky rice? You'd have to eat a boatload of the right veggies to get the recommended quantity. Btw, I thought your preferred alcohol was red wine with your steak?

Wine or bourbon or rum - depending on where in the world I am. It's hard to get decent wine in the tropics.

The popular belief that dietary fiber is somehow necessary for gut health is just another fallacy. I've had minimal to none over the last 10 years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/

Mark,

Agree 100% on the fiber. I have been the same. I used to seek it out >10 years ago because of the assumption it was good for you and helped you poop better (my main intended use, sorry TMI). A couple magnesium supplements work a shitload (pun intended) better, and get more magnesium in your system, which many are lacking.

[thisisallen]

As we know, the Japanese eat Allota rice. Yet they have some of the longest lifelongevity in the world. How do the no fiber gurus understand that phenomenon?

[Maddy]

On the subject of magnesium. . . A friend recently mentioned that she had been soaking her feet in epsom salts and finding it an effective remedy for muscle cramps in her feet. My ears perked up because I've recently been plagued with intractable foot and leg cramps at night which have been noticeably relieved by taking a cal-mag supplement (and conversely made worse when I stop the supplement). A couple of days ago, my wrist gave out in a painful way. I have no idea what happened because I was still in bed and did nothing more ambitious than pull the bedsheets up around my chin. As the day went on, the pain became worse, and by early afternoon my wrist was useless and my entire forearm was aching badly. I got to thinking: What possibly could have caused this--an entrapped nerve? Or possibly a spasm of a small muscle somewhere inside my wrist? The more I thought about it, the more I liked the muscle spasm thesis--so much that I went and bought a box of epsom salts, dissolved it in a plastic pitcher of water, and stuck my forearm in the solution for about 30 minutes. An hour or two later, the pain was entirely gone. Not scientific, I know, but one hell of a coincidence.

BTW, my friend also mentioned that soaking her feet in epsom salts (magnesium) has made her sleep much better.

[Cortopassi]

As we know, the Japanese eat Allota rice. Yet they have some of the longest lifelongevity in the world. How do the no fiber gurus understand that phenomenon?

Do you really think steamed white rice has a lot of fiber? Carbs, yes. Fiber, no.

[Cortopassi]

Wine or bourbon or rum - depending on where in the world I am. It's hard to get decent wine in the tropics.

The popular belief that dietary fiber is somehow necessary for gut health is just another fallacy. I've had minimal to none over the last 10 years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/

Mark,

Agree 100% on the fiber. I have been the same. I used to seek it out >10 years ago because of the assumption it was good for you and helped you poop better (my main intended use, sorry TMI). A couple magnesium supplements work a shitload (pun intended) better, and get more magnesium in your system, which many are lacking.

Corto, How much magnesium do you take, and on what dosing schedule?

Generally three 200mg Mag Citrate pills, one at each meal (but I don't eat breakfast, so in the morning...). Been doing it for 9 years. I cannot attest to other related benefits, such as relaxation, reducing muscle cramps, etc. But for the original main searching for me, (again TMI...), with a family history of constipation, and having tried every form of fiber on the planet, literally, Metamucil, Citrucel, Inulin, every form of high fiber cereal, Fiber One bars, prunes, boatloads of water, etc., magnesium is a miracle worker. Not an issue in 9 years.

Ever since then I have taken every diet and health related claim of doctors and so-called experts with a big grain of salt.

The other big one is cholesterol and statins, I am sure we have a topic somewhere on that....