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Re: Epstein

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:07 am
by Kriegsspiel
*Patiently awaiting the deepfakes*

Re: Epstein

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:24 pm
by Maddy
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08- ... otect-your

This is an interesting article, based upon interviews with the girls Epstein recruited, about how he lured them into service. When I think about how naive I was at that age, how oblivious I was to the connection between cause and consequence, how ignorant I was of now obvious dangers, and how generally ignorant I was of how the world works, I cannot fault these kids at all for the choices they made. So while the term "pedophilia" (which focuses upon the man's proclivities) may not fit, the concept of sexual predition toward children certainly does.

Re: Epstein

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:39 pm
by Kriegsspiel
Maddy wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:24 pm
This is an interesting article, based upon interviews with the girls Epstein recruited, about how he lured them into service. When I think about how naive I was at that age, how oblivious I was to the connection between cause and consequence, how ignorant I was of now obvious dangers, and how generally ignorant I was of how the world works, I cannot fault these kids at all for the choices they made.
I can't fault people who get raped at knife point, or the females who get kidnapped and locked in basements. But you can't tell me that these girls didn't know what prostitution was. Jennifer Aroaz says in the article that she was uncomfortable with what she was doing, but nevertheless she did it once or twice a week for over a year. Why? Because he was giving her a bunch of money for doing it, obviously. She knows she could have worked at McDonalds or a grocery store or something like that, but she chose to be a prostitute.

The one that you mentioned earlier, Courtney Wild, says she RECRUITED 70-80 other girls into the child prostitution ring. That's fucking heinous.

Unless I'm missing something... it's all darkness.

Re: Epstein

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:19 pm
by ochotona
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:39 pm
Maddy wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:24 pm
This is an interesting article, based upon interviews with the girls Epstein recruited, about how he lured them into service. When I think about how naive I was at that age, how oblivious I was to the connection between cause and consequence, how ignorant I was of now obvious dangers, and how generally ignorant I was of how the world works, I cannot fault these kids at all for the choices they made.
I can't fault people who get raped at knife point, or the females who get kidnapped and locked in basements. But you can't tell me that these girls didn't know what prostitution was. Jennifer Aroaz says in the article that she was uncomfortable with what she was doing, but nevertheless she did it once or twice a week for over a year. Why? Because he was giving her a bunch of money for doing it, obviously. She knows she could have worked at McDonalds or a grocery store or something like that, but she chose to be a prostitute.

The one that you mentioned earlier, Courtney Wild, says she RECRUITED 70-80 other girls into the child prostitution ring. That's fucking heinous.

Unless I'm missing something... it's all darkness.

If you are a minor, you cannot legally give consent, that makes it rape. Unless you are legally married while a minor, and some states make an allowance for people of similar age (dating teenagers).

Re: Epstein

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:27 pm
by Maddy
I'm just surmising here, but I suspect these girls' choices might have been different had everything been laid out for them from the beginning. Had that been the case, there wouldn't have been any need for the kind of sophisticated grooming that Epstein and his team had a knack for.

It's easy for me to see how a 14-year-old (especially one with preexisting psychological vulnerabilities) could believe that Epstein was actually interested in her as a person and committed to vaulting her to the pinnacle of success in the modeling or acting industry. To a kid coming from a troubled family, with self-esteem/identity issues and the usual teenage penchant for fantasy-type thinking, it must have been enormously reinforcing to be paid so much positive attention and to be treated as a desirable, adult woman. No doubt it was the role of Ghislaine, the mother figure, to normalize all of this and to convince these girls that what they were being asked to do was part and parcel of being a grown-up woman in the company of oh-so-important people. That message could have been easy to believe given these girls' lack of life experience and the manner in which the modern educational system has groomed children to be both non-thinking conformists and open and receptive to sexuality in whatever wierd form it may come. That would have been enough to cause many young people to get in over their heads, and at that point it's easy to see how they lost control of the situation. There may have been drugging, imprisonment, or even threats of harm. After all, control through the threat of blackmail was Epstein's specialty.

Re: Epstein

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:34 pm
by Xan
So what was in it for Ghislaine?

Re: Epstein

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:42 pm
by Smith1776
This s#$t seriously just makes me sick.

Like, really, I think we all know people like this in the world exist, but the depth and degree of depravity once revealed is just something else. The idea of preying on children like that makes me throw up a little in my mouth.

I know we got an official coroner's report and everything, but...
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Re: Epstein

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:45 pm
by Smith1776
Despite the above, I do concede that in some cases it's "unfair" when certain people are labeled pedophiles, when what they've done involved, say, a 16 year old.

Technically, that's a ephebophilia... perhaps not as egregious as pedophilia, but still...

Re: Epstein

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:03 pm
by Kriegsspiel
ochotona wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:19 pm
If you are a minor, you cannot legally give consent, that makes it rape. Unless you are legally married while a minor, and some states make an allowance for people of similar age (dating teenagers).
No argument there.
Maddy wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:27 pm
There may have been drugging, imprisonment, or even threats of harm. After all, control through the threat of blackmail was Epstein's specialty.
I was just going by what I read in that article.

Re: Epstein

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:03 pm
by D1984
Smith1776 wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:45 pm
Despite the above, I do concede that in some cases it's "unfair" when certain people are labeled pedophiles, when what they've done involved, say, a 16 year old.

Technically, that's a ephebophilia... perhaps not as egregious as pedophilia, but still...

But still what, exactly? What you are describing (a person over 18 having sex with a person who is 16 years of age) and implying is ephebophilia/pedophilia is quite legal in over half the US. What exactly is wrong with an adult having sex with a 16 year old? Surely you can see that a 16-year old is not the same thing as, say, a 16 month old? Would you call my dad an ephebophile (he starting dating my mom when she had just turned 17 and he was 34...this was in the early 1980s)...or my grandfather (IIRC from what he told me he started dating my grandmother when she was 15 and he was in his mid-20s...this was in the late 1950s)? How about Brigitte Macron (nee Trogneux)...the First Lady of France; apparently she started having sex with Emmanuel Macron when she was 39 and he was 15? What about Phil Robertson of Duck Dynasty fame who suggested twentysomething and thirtysomething men should marry 15 or 16 year old ladies? Are all these people in the same moral category as pedophiles and child molesters?

For that matter, if someone had been a resident of Hawaii and did what Epstein did (had sex with 14 and 15 year old females) and did it before late 2001 he would have been--presuming they did not use drugging/blackmail/threats which was and still is illegal no matter the age of one's partner--perfectly within the law; the state of Hawaii didn't raise its age of consent from 14 to 16 before the end of 2001. Furthermore, had he been in British Columbia (or most of the rest of Canada, come to think of it) and had been a Canadian citizen and did what he did before mid-2008 then he would have been perfectly within the letter of the law as well. Or even if this had taken place in Spain before September 2013 (less than 6 years ago) and the female in question was at least 13 which up until then was 100% legal there. And none of this is even mentioning most of the rest of Europe, or Japan, or South Korea, or Mexico, or Philippines, or what the legal age of consent was before the end of 2007 in New Zealand for when the male partner was under-aged and the female partner was 18 or more (look that last one up and prepare to be rather surprised/shocked).

I certainly don't condone people having sex with young (as in prepubescent) children but I also don't understand this (to my mind's eye) kind of extremist mindset of "have sex with someone who is 18 years and a few seconds old...that's 100% A-OK; have sex with someone who is 17 years, 364 days, and 23.5 hours old and you are an icky disgusting child molesting pedophile/ephebophile scumbag who is the second coming of Albert Fish and Westley Allan Dodd combined and who should just be thrown in jail to rot for the rest of your life and/or put against a wall and shot" either.

Re: Epstein

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:00 pm
by Smith1776
I just mean that sexual coercion of an 8 year old is (all other things being equal) pretty much axiomatically worse than someone who is, say, 15.

Re: Epstein

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:45 pm
by Kriegsspiel
The Epstein memes are superb.

Re: Epstein

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:49 am
by dualstow
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:45 pm
The Epstein memes are superb.
I haven’t seen those, but there are some great limericks on twitter.

Re: Epstein

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:19 am
by dualstow
Here you go, pug. Feast! O0
https://twitter.com/hashtag/EpsteinLime ... wsrc%5Etfw

One caveat: some people have no clue about meter. Hey, it’s twitter. But there are some gems.

Here’s one of many from Bret Weinstein — you may remember him from such threads as The Left is Eating Itself, as he was the ousted professor who used to work at Evergreen.
ABC will never confess
All the reasons it chose to suppress
The things that it knew of the rich men who flew
Aboard Epstein’s Lolita Express
from “mom folding laundry”:
There once was a private school teach,
Who did, from all royalty, leach
Both scruples and cash
Peddling underage snatch
But, in jail, he could not dodge their reach.

Re: Epstein

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:12 pm
by Kriegsspiel
dualstow wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:49 am
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:45 pm
The Epstein memes are superb.
I haven’t seen those, but there are some great limericks on twitter.
Image

Image

Re: Epstein

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:48 pm
by dualstow
:D The possibilities are infinite!

Re: Epstein

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:49 am
by vnatale
So how do I put an image here aside from putting in its URL? I cannot upload an image from my computer or paste one?

Thanks

Vinny

Re: Epstein

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:55 am
by Xan
Click the "Attachments" tab below the message text. That'll let you upload a picture, then you can choose to put it inline in your message.

Re: Epstein

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:20 am
by vnatale
Xan wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:55 am
Click the "Attachments" tab below the message text. That'll let you upload a picture, then you can choose to put it inline in your message.
Wow! For some reason it just took me what seemed forever to see that attachments tab! Thanks. And, here is the image (which I think many here will enjoy on two levels)…

Vinny
Capture.PNG
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Re: Epstein

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:45 pm
by dualstow
I'm too caught up in those annoying English mistakes (made by native speakers; I don't pick on ESL students) to care about Epstein now. O0

Re: Epstein

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:04 pm
by vnatale
dualstow wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:45 pm
I'm too caught up in those annoying English mistakes (made by native speakers; I don't pick on ESL students) to care about Epstein now. O0
Getting back to my immigrant father again and one thing I admired about him.

He came to the country at the age of 13 speaking no English. Because of that great impediment he did not graduate high school until the age of 21 (it is just striking me as I write this that I may have inherited my oft-times great persistence from him). At the end of that he wrote great perfectly grammatical sentences and paragraphs.

I many times contrasted that with my experience when I worked at the undergraduate counseling office of the School of Business at the University of Massachusetts. There was an unbelievable amount of students who could not successfully string just two sentences together as to why they wanted to drop a course. And, these were COLLEGE students! And, for any of you want to harken back to it was so much better way back when, I'm referring to the 1975 / 1976 time period! A LONG time ago!

Vinny

Re: Epstein

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:11 pm
by dualstow
I'm going to say his name is Vincenzo Sr and he came from Abruzzi. How'd I do?

Re: Epstein

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:23 pm
by vnatale
dualstow wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:11 pm
I'm going to say his name is Vincenzo Sr and he came from Abruzzi. How'd I do?
Close. He was Anthony and, of course, my middle name is Anthony. I used to say that if you were Italian it was either your first or middle name.

And, I don't even know where Abruzzi is. I always tell people that I'm genetically 100% Southern Italian but 100% culturally American (because of the way my sister and I were brought up). Until I recently read a book on the history of Italy (quite enlightening to me) I was almost 100% ignorant of anything regarding Italy.

But where he came from.

He said he could see Pompeii / Mt. Vesuvius from where he lived.

Did any of you used to watch the TV show "Combat" with Vic Morrow in it?

One show he and were watching it together. All of a sudden they were coming in to a town which I thought was "Menlo". All of a sudden my father jumps out of his chair, saying. "Menlo! That is where I am from!". I've since search for a town in Italy called Menlo but have been unable to find anything.

In the past year I did buy the entire Combat series (new but extremely cheap) but have yet to watch any episodes.

Vinny

Re: Epstein

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:17 pm
by Mountaineer
vnatale wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:23 pm
dualstow wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:11 pm
I'm going to say his name is Vincenzo Sr and he came from Abruzzi. How'd I do?
Close. He was Anthony and, of course, my middle name is Anthony. I used to say that if you were Italian it was either your first or middle name.

And, I don't even know where Abruzzi is. I always tell people that I'm genetically 100% Southern Italian but 100% culturally American (because of the way my sister and I were brought up). Until I recently read a book on the history of Italy (quite enlightening to me) I was almost 100% ignorant of anything regarding Italy.

But where he came from.

He said he could see Pompeii / Mt. Vesuvius from where he lived.

Did any of you used to watch the TV show "Combat" with Vic Morrow in it?

One show he and were watching it together. All of a sudden they were coming in to a town which I thought was "Menlo". All of a sudden my father jumps out of his chair, saying. "Menlo! That is where I am from!". I've since search for a town in Italy called Menlo but have been unable to find anything.

In the past year I did buy the entire Combat series (new but extremely cheap) but have yet to watch any episodes.

Vinny
I loved that show. I think you will enjoy it. You brought back a good memory for me. Thanks.

Re: Epstein

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:25 pm
by vnatale
Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:17 pm
vnatale wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:23 pm
dualstow wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:11 pm
I'm going to say his name is Vincenzo Sr and he came from Abruzzi. How'd I do?
Close. He was Anthony and, of course, my middle name is Anthony. I used to say that if you were Italian it was either your first or middle name.

And, I don't even know where Abruzzi is. I always tell people that I'm genetically 100% Southern Italian but 100% culturally American (because of the way my sister and I were brought up). Until I recently read a book on the history of Italy (quite enlightening to me) I was almost 100% ignorant of anything regarding Italy.

But where he came from.

He said he could see Pompeii / Mt. Vesuvius from where he lived.

Did any of you used to watch the TV show "Combat" with Vic Morrow in it?

One show he and were watching it together. All of a sudden they were coming in to a town which I thought was "Menlo". All of a sudden my father jumps out of his chair, saying. "Menlo! That is where I am from!". I've since search for a town in Italy called Menlo but have been unable to find anything.

In the past year I did buy the entire Combat series (new but extremely cheap) but have yet to watch any episodes.

Vinny
I loved that show. I think you will enjoy it. You brought back a good memory for me. Thanks.
I regularly watched it when it was on TV.

Gallant Men was also a World War II series playing at the same time as Combat. They always seemed to be the superior "war" TV series.

Vinny