Epstein

[Cortopassi]

Think about it, it makes sense. The guy finally gets what's coming to him and has a choice, almost guaranteed loss at trial and put in real prison, where I understand most people don't take kindly to pedophiles, or kill yourself.

You can imagine it all to be a conspiracy, but I personally think it is logical to at least think about killing yourself in this situation.

And, sure there is the option of someone on the outside paying off someone in prison to kill him to keep him quiet. Happens all the time in the mob, at least in movies and TV!
----------------------
"Two sources told NBC News that Epstein may have tried to hang himself, while a third source cautioned that the injuries weren't serious, questioning whether Epstein might have staged an attack or a suicide attempt to get a transfer to another facility.

Another source said that an assault hadn't been ruled out and that another inmate, identified by sources as Nicholas Tartaglione, had been questioned."

[dualstow]

That's very offensive, kriegs.
It should read "a shock to Bill and me."

[Kriegsspiel]

Think about it, it makes sense. The guy finally gets what's coming to him and has a choice, almost guaranteed loss at trial and put in real prison, where I understand most people don't take kindly to pedophiles, or kill yourself.

You can imagine it all to be a conspiracy, but I personally think it is logical to at least think about killing yourself in this situation.

Bro.... you're kinda ruining it.

And, sure there is the option of someone on the outside paying off someone in prison to kill him to keep him quiet. Happens all the time in the mob, at least in movies and TV!

I saw a few guys playing dice in the street the other day. Only saw it in movies/TV before that! Of course, on screen it's usually accompanied by an armed hold-up, so I was thinking about that at the time, but nothing exciting happened.

That's very offensive, kriegs.
It should read "a shock to Bill and me."

If there's one weakness of the 4chan memelords, grammar is it.

[Tyler]

You know the guy is in trouble when the moment I saw that #ClintonBodyCount is the top trending hashtag on Twitter I figured it was Epstein without even knowing the details. But in all fairness, he reminds me of the murder mystery plot where there are so many people with motive to kill the victim that the cops have no idea where to start.

[dualstow]

LOL!

[Kriegsspiel]

James Comey's daughter named to Epstein prosecution team.

[Cortopassi]

Man, I hate to be a conspiracy theorist, but he killed himself? After apparently trying not long ago? Wouldn't he have been on a watch?

Too convenient.

[dualstow]

Man, I hate to be a conspiracy theorist, but he killed himself? After apparently trying not long ago? Wouldn't he have been on a watch?

Too convenient.

He’s still alive. The joke is in the term “upcoming suicide.”

[drumminj]

It appears he succeeded the second time.

he was in segregated detainment under suicide watch and he got killed by a mugger, who forgot to take his wallet ? ? ?

[shekels]

It appears he succeeded the second time.

I want positive DNA results, or it did not happen

[Tyler]

Man, I hate to be a conspiracy theorist, but he killed himself? After apparently trying not long ago? Wouldn't he have been on a watch?

It doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to understand what's going on. You don't even have to think he was murdered rather than killed by his own hand to see the problem. This was entirely predictable and preventable, and the most prominent prisoner in the country with the goods on a lot of very powerful people died under federal supervision even after the first attempt failed. No matter how it ultimately went down, it stinks to high heaven.

The question now is whether people just accept the outcome and shrug off the obvious widespread corruption or demand that every last person participating in, enabling, and covering up his crimes visit the same cell.

[Ad Orientem]

It's been a longtime since a death was so certain to fuel conspiracy theories.

[Maddy]

A lot of people have got to be damned panicked to do the very thing we predicted would happen. It's as though the DS is no longer concerned about having a credible cover; they're scrambling to save themselves without any ascertainable plan and without any regard for the long-term consequences.

[Ad Orientem]

While I can understand the explosion of conspiracy theories over this, my gut says that Occam's razor applies. It is far more likely that one or more people dropped the ball and Epstein was able to kill himself. But in situations like this, truth and facts quickly become meaningless. There is a certain percentage of the population with a predisposition to conspiracy theorism who have long since decamped to their own "24" alternate reality and they aren't coming home. And when things happen that look so bloody awful, it can push otherwise reasonable people into that dark alternative universe, at least when dealing with the given subject. The murder of President Kennedy being a prime example.

[Maddy]

While I can understand the explosion of conspiracy theories over this. . .

So you don't believe that people of extreme wealth and power conspire with one another?

I can't really imagine why Epstein, who presumably could have cut just about any deal he wanted with the prosecution, would need to kill himself. All the more so if he was, indeed, an intelligence asset. Unless, of course, the prospect of continuing to live was a less tenable alternative than self-inflected death. Which would then raise the question: What (who) was Epstein afraid of?

[Ad Orientem]

Of course people can conspire. But conspiracies involving high profile murder don't usually remain secrets for long, when they are real. And I don't think Epstein could cut whatever deal he wanted. That card had already been played and had caused a public scandal. Epstein knew he was going away for life and had a pretty good idea what life in the can was going to be like for a convicted serial child molester. He very sensibly decided it was time to check himself out of the hotel.

[Kriegsspiel]

I can't really imagine why Epstein, who presumably could have cut just about any deal he wanted with the prosecution, would need to kill himself. All the more so if he was, indeed, an intelligence asset.

Imagine how surprised he was!

[drumminj]

But conspiracies involving high profile murder don't usually remain secrets for long, when they are real.

I'm not sure how one could state this as a fact. It presumes knowledge of all conspiracies involving high profile murder, even those that have remained secret, no?

For all we know, a large number of conspiracies have remained secret and we remain ignorant.

[Mountaineer]

An anecdote: I have a good friend who was a long time Philadelphia police detective. He supports the conspiracy theory as the most likely cause.

[Maddy]

But conspiracies involving high profile murder don't usually remain secrets for long, when they are real.

One would think that to be true, and it certainly is true with respect to the private lives of ordinary citizens, but history has shown that the Elite have managed to pull of a great many of their heists in total, or near-total, secrecy. A good example was the Manhattan Project in Los Alamos involving the development of the first atomic bomb, which employed over 120,000 Americans between the years 1942 and 1945, in addition to a large number of internationally renowned scientists recruited from all over the world. The question how such a massive project with earthshaking ramifications could remain secret is an intriguing question. The best answer I can muster is that information about the project was highly compartmentalized, with only a small group of privileged insiders privy to the knowledge that an atomic bomb was being developed. However, the degree of compartmentalization required to pull off a project of that magnitude would have required an almost unfathomable degree of coordination, not to mention a sprawling population of scientists and employees strangely content to go to work every day having no idea what they were doing. Logically, it seems, the objective of complete and total secrecy would have been impossible to achieve without some secondary mechanism for identifying and managing leaks. Which brings us to another painfully timely topic involving control files and well-placed bullets.

More recently, it appears that during the Bush II and Obama administrations, more than $21 trillion went missing from the balance sheets of two federal agencies alone (HUD and DOD). (See the work of Professor Mark Skidmore and his PhD-candidate students, verifying "undocumentable adjustments" in that amount.) So how does it happen that two federal agencies can shuttle out the back door an amount roughly equivalent to the National Debt without anybody knowing about it?

To me, the question is not whether the Elite is controlling a vast number of government operations in secret, but what sinister mechanisms it may be using to maintain that secrecy.

[dualstow]

An anecdote: I have a good friend who was a long time Philadelphia police detective. He supports the conspiracy theory as the most likely cause.

This guy?
https://images.app.goo.gl/wc3M1gdzLpiJSTME7

[Tyler]

Of course people can conspire. But conspiracies involving high profile murder don't usually remain secrets for long, when they are real.

Know the right people and conspiracies don't need to remain secret. Epstein's pedophile ring ran out in the open for decades.

This is one of those situations where the truth is so unbelievable that gaslighting perfectly rational questioners as conspiracy theorists is part of the coverup strategy. You have a well-connected billionaire who claimed to be in finance but nobody knows where his money actually came from. He owned a private island that includes a creepy temple adorned with pagan statues that contains nothing but a bed. He regularly flew in powerful visitors like Bill Clinton, Alan Dershowitz, and Prince Andrew on a plane called the "Lolita Express", and he was blatantly trafficking young girls to the point where locals refer to it as "Pedophile Island". He also owned a massive compound in New Mexico where he planned to seed the world with his DNA by impregnating hundreds of women at a time. Authorities had him dead to rights years ago, but the lead prosecutor was informed Epstein belonged to US intelligence. In a negotiated plea deal, he ended up serving only 13 months in "jail" where he was allowed to hire his own private security detail and work from home 12 hours a day, six days a week. He also inexplicably received immunity from further prosecution in the process, and the details of his sentence were kept secret from the victims in the case. Basically, he was a well-known sexual abuse mastermind who absolutely flaunted it but was completely untouchable until only recently.

Just a few years ago, Epstein's protected status as the coordinator of an elite pedophile ring was all just a conspiracy theory. But investigators persisted and now it's all spelled out in legal documents, flight logs, and witness testimony. To me, we're well beyond conspiracy theory here and anyone dismissing the dark, dark underbelly of the situation is living in willful ignorance.

Epstein was an evil man servicing evil men, and his death was the most predictable element of the entire saga. My one hope is that the suspicious circumstances make the spotlight even brighter. The entire system that supported him needs to be pulled up by the roots and burned.

[Maddy]

You're right, Tyler-- Much of that dark underbelly has been right out there in plain view.

However, what remains largely in the dark is how a ring of pedophiles could effectively come to own and control everything that matters, including Congress, a majority of federal judges, and the heads of virtually every government agency right on down to the local level. IMHO, the stuff that's been out there in plain view is just the tip of the iceberg. It represents the narcissistic flaunting of people for whom being above the law is not enough; they need for everyone to know it.

[clacy]

You're right, Tyler-- Much of that dark underbelly has been right out there in plain view.

However, what remains largely in the dark is how a ring of pedophiles could effectively come to own and control everything that matters, including Congress, a majority of federal judges, and the heads of virtually every government agency right on down to the local level. IMHO, the stuff that's been out there in plain view is just the tip of the iceberg. It represents the narcissistic flaunting of people for whom being above the law is not enough; they need for everyone to know it.

I totally agree. Call it a conspiracy theory, but there is tons of evidence of this if you look into it. Both sides have been in on it over the last 50+ years. It's about control and narcissism.

[dualstow]

Of course people can conspire. But conspiracies involving high profile murder don't usually remain secrets for long, when they are real.

Know the right people and conspiracies don't need to remain secret. Epstein's pedophile ring ran out in the open for decades.

This is one of those situations where the truth is so unbelievable that gaslighting perfectly rational questioners as conspiracy theorists is part of the coverup strategy. You have a well-connected billionaire who claimed to be in finance but nobody knows where his money actually came from. He owned a private island that includes a creepy temple adorned with pagan statues that contains nothing but a bed. He regularly flew in powerful visitors like Bill Clinton, Alan Dershowitz, and Prince Andrew on a plane called the "Lolita Express", and he was blatantly trafficking young girls to the point where locals refer to it as "Pedophile Island". He also owned a massive compound in New Mexico where he planned to seed the world with his DNA by impregnating hundreds of women at a time. Authorities had him dead to rights years ago, but the lead prosecutor was informed Epstein belonged to US intelligence. In a negotiated plea deal, he ended up serving only 13 months in "jail" where he was allowed to hire his own private security detail and work from home 12 hours a day, six days a week. He also inexplicably received immunity from further prosecution in the process, and the details of his sentence were kept secret from the victims in the case. Basically, he was a well-known sexual abuse mastermind who absolutely flaunted it but was completely untouchable until only recently.

Just a few years ago, Epstein's protected status as the coordinator of an elite pedophile ring was all just a conspiracy theory. But investigators persisted and now it's all spelled out in legal documents, flight logs, and witness testimony. To me, we're well beyond conspiracy theory here and anyone dismissing the dark, dark underbelly of the situation is living in willful ignorance.

Epstein was an evil man servicing evil men, and his death was the most predictable element of the entire saga. My one hope is that the suspicious circumstances make the spotlight even brighter. The entire system that supported him needs to be pulled up by the roots and burned.

Good Lord!