bud split

[pmward]

Yeah, I think that having opposing opinions in the think tank is an incredibly valuable thing. If this were censoring him based solely on his opinion I would be against it, but it's not. There's a difference between making an opposing argument and spewing public toxicity into the community on a regular basis. It's wasn't the opinion, it was the behavior that was bad for the community. And it wasn't a one off occurrence, it has been a consistent problem for months. Xan warned him publicly multiple times, and this also wasn't the first time Budd asked to be banned. If you look back at his history you will see he asked for it a few times, and even stated that it would be good to help him "move on". Matter of fact, if you haven't looked at his recent history beyond just the last couple days I recommend doing so, why he was banned is clear as day when you see all of his comments to other members from the last few months in one place. Budd said it himself, and I agree, that it probably is best for Budd as a person to be able to get closure and move on from whatever wrong he felt he was done here.

[flyingpylon]

Based on his posts, it seemed that Budd's primary reason for being here was to be reassured that he is a WINNER.

WINNERS don't make the mistake of investing in strategies or assets that underperform. Underperforming strategies or assets are simply LOSERS. LOSERS that SUCK!

The dollars aren't the issue (he's won that game), the emotions are. I was tired of Budd's posts, but I sincerely hope he eventually finds his "happy place".

On a related note, anyone expecting "freedom of speech" needs to take it to the town square. The vast majority of internet forums are privately owned and operated and at the end of the day it's the owner's right to do what they feel is best for their community.

[ochotona]

Don't kid yourself, there is no free speech in the town square anymore either.

The Bill of Rights only means the Fed Govt can't make rules regarding speech. It says nothing about your neighbors.

[Kbg]

Wow, you are gone for a couple of days and Budd is persona non grata. No comment on Budd the person from me, but in my view the person who maintains the board (e.g. does all the work) gets to make the call and I support Xan’s privilege/right to do so.

[Don]

Some more crap I’m not going to read...
Good luck to you and remember I was once like you.
You’ll come around just like every intelligent person before you already has.
You can number crunch all you like (remember I am in analytics and do this all day) but back-testing has no predictive value whatsoever.
Also, no one I know has invested a lump sum at some starting point but rather DCA’s into their investments over an extended time period.
I would love to sell Gold but I actually have a long-term capital gain after buying IAU at 10.39 and do not want to pay 6 figures in taxes for a collectible.

Budd, please...

You're welcome to a contrarian opinion, but you've referred to what a fellow poster wrote as crap, and then also called anybody who's investing in the PP unintelligent.

Is this your way of asking to be banned? You're very, very close.

You goaded Budd into being banned. Here's the post. Why not just let him say what he feels like saying? Why the censorship?

[ochotona]

You goaded Budd into being banned. Here's the post. Why not just let him say what he feels like saying? Why the censorship?

As the son of immigrants, I have to pipe up and point out what is the unseen Achilles tendon of American culture at this point, and why it's all going to sh**. Americans who have been here a long time don't see it, but immigrants see it, and we talk about long time Americans behind y'alls back, by the way.

Since the days of Dr. Spock, since Woodstock, the American culture has enshrined feelings. Read your sentence, man.

Why not just let him say what he feels like saying?

You have left and right wing snowflakes who get highly offended if they think their feelings aren't being respected. Some pick up an emotional comfort python, some pick up a gun. It's all part and parcel of the post-WW2 American worship and enshrinement of feelings. It's wrecking America. It has been for 60 years.

I think on this forum we respect people with divergent ideas. Ideas are important, they have a life of their own, they deserve respect. Feelings are phantoms, they come and go, they often mean nothing. Budd bathed in and exuded toxic feelings. That's why he got banned.

We respect Budd's ideas. We reject his toxic feelings.

Ideas and feelings, do not confuse them.

[Don]

You goaded Budd into being banned. Here's the post. Why not just let him say what he feels like saying? Why the censorship?

As the son of immigrants, I have to pipe up and point out what is the unseen Achilles tendon of American culture at this point, and why it's all going to sh**. Americans who have been here a long time don't see it, but immigrants see it, and we talk about long time Americans behind y'alls back, by the way.

Since the days of Dr. Spock, since Woodstock, the American culture has enshrined feelings. Read your sentence, man.

Why not just let him say what he feels like saying?

You have left and right wing snowflakes who get highly offended if they think their feelings aren't being respected. Some pick up an emotional comfort python, some pick up a gun. It's all part and parcel of the post-WW2 American worship and enshrinement of feelings. It's wrecking America. It has been for 60 years.

I think on this forum we respect people with divergent ideas. Ideas are important, they have a life of their own, they deserve respect. Feelings are phantoms, they come and go, they often mean nothing. Budd bathed in and exuded toxic feelings. That's why he got banned.

We respect Budd's ideas. We reject his toxic feelings.

Ideas and feelings, do not confuse them.

What about your feelings? Are they toxic too? Who decides?

[l82start]

I moved this from the gold topic,

ultimately our decisions are final and entirely up to us and our criteria.... bottom line...

bud was a long time poster and community member so some discussion of his request, his behaviour and ultimate ban is OK and to be expected. but if discussion of his ban gets out of hand, heated or drowns out the rational discussion of acceptable forum behaviour (and mourning buds forum suicide) we will lock it..

[mathjak107]

let me comment here as one who is locked out of the other forums ..
i was never disrespectful to anyone here and when i i tried to convey just what would happen to the pp if rates went up i was berated and banned too ... i ended up being 100% correct too

i was 100% correct in what i tried to convey and i was totally beaten up for it .. others abused me and finally i had enough abuse and voiced my opinion then a mod came down on me after all the abuse i took , and i basically said screw this ... so while i do copy the mail and post on other topics let me say first hand differences in opinion on the pp stuff is certainly not welcome here...the fact others were so freaking nasty to me never counted .. it was only if i lashed back that something was said by a mod and only to me .....

don you are 100% correct in your view up to the point of personal attacks being done on others ... unfortunately personal attacks on the person making opposing comments don't count . .

for most of the last 50 years we have seen nothing but falling rates for the most part with some speed bumps along the way ... i kept saying for years if rates rise the only game in town will be equities and the powerful opposite pulls of the pp assets will stall the pp , it may be better to go with less interest rate sensitive diversified holdings until we see how this plays out a bit ... ... well it was certainly true that rising rates starting from the low rate bottom and not the tops like the 1970's and 80's were the pp's kryptonite.

i took so much heat for saying this and i got hit with so much nastiness here for saying such a thing that it led to me becoming frustrated and banned from the other forums .. the irony is i use long term treasuries and gold at times and add them to fly fighter cover ... but i don't use them all the time .. i use them like now where gold and treasuries had a decent roll back the last few weeks and stocks are making new highs ... i will wait for a spike , sell them and repeat ....

i made over 27k trading gld in one year just buying when it fell and selling after it went up a bit .. i did that 32x in all , i think tlt was over 4k doing the same thing .. this was in addition to my normal fidelity insight model which is my main portfolio . i can find my trading statement and see what the actual gains were in just the parts i sold

[mathjak107]

i guess you would call this my variable portfolio as opposed to my regular growth and income model i use , since it is dynamic and i swap it out .... i simply set a stop loss and if i am wrong i am out ... i think i clocked in at about 145k in just fun trading .

but you can see gold and tlt definitely are a like of mine , just not 24/7 ....... unlike equities gold and long term treasuries are not about time in the market , they are about timing the market today . GLD was my biggest gainer .

[l82start]

just to restate... this forum has always and should always continue to encourage dissent. the constant dissection and examination of this and other investment plans, and the economics that underlie them, is what makes coming here and reading posts an almost addictive pleasure.
I am willing to discuss the reasons behind any ban, person to person via pm or email with the person who has been banned including bud or any concerned forum members, i have both moderated and participated in more than a few forums over the years and this is by far the place that has had, and has needed! the lightest touch in terms of moderating forum members. we (you/us the forum members) have kept this a place where that is possible.., not by restricting what you say... but by taking care in how and where you choose to say it..

[Libertarian666]

just to restate... this forum has always and should always continue to encourage dissent. the constant dissection and examination of this and other investment plans, and the economics that underlie them, is what makes coming here and reading posts an almost addictive pleasure.
I am willing to discuss the reasons behind any ban, person to person via pm or email with the person who has been banned including bud or any concerned forum members, i have both moderated and participated in more than a few forums over the years and this is by far the place that has had, and has needed! the lightest touch in terms of moderating forum members. we (you/us the forum members) have kept this a place where that is possible.., not by restricting what you say... but by taking care in how and where you choose to say it..

As a former moderator (for a much more rambunctious group), I appreciate your work in moderating this one. Thanks!

[Ad Orientem]

Unfortunately, I have some experience dealing with this sort of thing as I am an administrator on the English Language Wikipedia. There is a difference between vigorous discussion vs disruption. I tend to believe in allowing the maximum amount of latitude to debates and discussions up to the point where someone has crossed the line into overtly disruptive behavior. Some signs that one may be moving into the realm of unconstructive behavior can include any of...

* Engaging in personal attacks
* Shouting
* Excessive use of profane language
* Tendentiously repeating the same arguments over and over again w/o acknowledging the points made by others
* Generally being a drama king/queen

My rule of thumb when dealing with disruptive behavior is to start with warnings and if that doesn't work then go with a temporary block, usually 24-48 hrs to start. But I also am a big believer in the three strikes rule. If I have to block someone for the same behavior three times, that's usually it. And of course those who are obviously not here to constructively contribute to the community can and should be shown the door immediately.

[dualstow]

Unfortunately, I have some experience dealing with this sort of thing as I am an administrator on the English Language Wikipedia.

How do you feel about the Deletionists over there? I find them so troubling that I have cut back on donations to wikipedia.

Anyway, +1 on Xan and mods. Keep on doing what you’re doing and thank you for all the patience and (unpaid) work.

[Ad Orientem]

Unfortunately, I have some experience dealing with this sort of thing as I am an administrator on the English Language Wikipedia.

How do you feel about the Deletionists over there? I find them so troubling that I have cut back on donations to wikipedia.

Anyway, +1 on Xan and mods. Keep on doing what you’re doing and thank you for all the patience and (unpaid) work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ad_O ... ikipedians

[dualstow]

{facepalm}

[Ad Orientem]

{facepalm}

[Xan]

It's heartwarming to learn that this is still a place where deletionists and inclusivists can put their differences aside and befriend each other.

I'm not sure where everybody stands in the Big Endian vs Little Endian debate (either in the Swiftian sense or the computer architecture sense), but it's probably best not to ask that kind of question.

[boglerdude]

FREE BUD

The 1st ban should be for a week. Y'all kept taking his troll bait. And what % of us are pure 4x25?

[boglerdude]

As the son of immigrants, I have to pipe up and point out what is the unseen Achilles tendon of American culture at this point, and why it's all going to sh**. Americans who have been here a long time don't see it, but immigrants see it, and we talk about long time Americans behind y'alls back, by the way.

Whats the fix?

[ochotona]

The fix is hard times. Greatest Generation hard times. A Depression, a war where sheit is blowing up in our cities. Something that forces us to hang together or hang separately.

[WiseOne]

I don't think it was Budd's feelings so much as the endless parade of posts that were some variation on the following: "<PP asset> is down today. This asset is worthless. The PP says you should hold this asset and I do because it told me to. So I hate the PP." It just wasn't helpful, except that I read them as a cry for help & consolation. Which someone always did.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to suppose that behavior like this is limited to native born/long-descended Americans, or indeed any ethnic/racial group. In fact, there are a number of organizations with mostly immigrant or 1st generation members that could be poster children for "complainypants" behavior, to borrow a previously-coined phrase. Not even the British who are supposed to have that classic "stiff upper lip" aren't immune.

[dualstow]

FREE BUD

4/20 was yesterday.

Y'all kept taking his troll bait.

He’s really not a troll. He’s just got hangups. We often cite his millions, but he intimated that perhaps no amount will put him at ease. I believe him. That’s where all the complaining was coming from.

[Tortoise]

The 1st ban should be for a week. Y'all kept taking his troll bait.

Didn’t Budd temporarily “ban” himself once or twice before by disappearing for a while after a heated argument on this forum?

I agree, though — everyone kept taking the bait. Deep down, I think a lot of people get a sense of satisfaction from arguing with trolls, even if they refuse to admit it. Similar to how audiences enjoy booing and hissing at villains on a stage.

And what % of us are pure 4x25?

I’m one of the small handful of forum members who is pure 4x25 in my investments (and 100% cash in savings with a time horizon of less than about three years). The HBPP suits me just fine both philosophically (agnostic about the future) and practically (it provides a fair inflation-adjusted return on average). For me, it’s “good enough.”

But that’s beside the point, because as others have already pointed out, Budd wasn’t banned for his portfolio preference; he was banned for his behavior (and because he explicitly asked to be banned).

[Don]

FREE BUD

The 1st ban should be for a week. Y'all kept taking his troll bait. And what % of us are pure 4x25?

Why ban a long time member for just a week when you can feel better about your power by banning him permanently?