Gyroscopic Investing

Good candidate for "The Left Is Eating Itself" thread.

We booked two nights in Seattle last week, more or less passing through. We stay one night on the way to Canada and one night awaiting a departure flight the next morning.

We booked the trip for mid-May. Should we stay in our room? I seem to have lost interest in sightseeing.

Thanks.

So are the police and mental health services underfunded, or is it liberals tying their hands?

Do any of you, or anyone you know, really object to rounding up bums and shipping them off? To min security prison or
https://www.ksat.com/news/haven-for-hop ... -las-vegas
https://mlf.org/community-first/

bedraggled wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:25 pm We booked two nights in Seattle last week, more or less passing through. We stay one night on the way to Canada and one night awaiting a departure flight the next morning.

We booked the trip for mid-May. Should we stay in our room? I seem to have lost interest in sightseeing.

Thanks.

I stayed there a couple of nights before and after an Alaska cruise and didn't see any of this. That was about 4 or 5 years ago so either they aren't allowing it in places that might drive away tourists or it has only blossomed recently. I suspect there actually are a lot of places where it isn't tolerated and the police are allowed to crackdown. One would probably be in front of the home of the mayor or a city council member.

Interesting contrast to how they handle the same problem in Rhode Island. I wonder if that's the kind of thing they are intending to do with the tax they were trying to raise on business.

Living in a warm weather state I've always wondered why we don't see more of this. Probably because we aren't so tolerant. Looks like in Seattle they welcome you with open arms, allow unrestricted access to drugs, give you a free tent and sleeping bag, and a get out of jail free card. In other words it's a homeless paradise.

I hear San Francisco is just as bad or worse. You can get a job there making $185k just for cleaning up poop on the streets.

I just watched the first few minutes of this so far...wow.

The film held NYC up as a city that's got things under control - but it's purely because we have the advantage of sub-freezing winter temperatures. Instead of spontaneous camps, NYC does homeless shelters, and they're building more and more of them. Which is starting to trigger big protests, because crime and trash always shoots up around them.

If you really want to fix homelessness though, the best way to do it is add long-term, institutional psychiatric care to Medicaid. Homelessness is not about poverty, it's about untreated schizophrenia. Which is a lifelong condition that needs to be managed constantly, not just for a couple of weeks in an inpatient psych ward. I'm at a loss to understand why no politician anywhere can understand this. Ironically, it's the left that is probably the best hope for getting something like that done.

Last time I was in Seattle was about a decade ago and a friend who grew up there showed a group of us around the city. It was very nice and "modern West Coasty." I think that's why this is so jarring to me; the delta between what I remember and the degeneracy in this video.

WiseOne wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:10 pm I just watched the first few minutes of this so far...wow.

The film held NYC up as a city that's got things under control - but it's purely because we have the advantage of sub-freezing winter temperatures. Instead of spontaneous camps, NYC does homeless shelters, and they're building more and more of them. Which is starting to trigger big protests, because crime and trash always shoots up around them.

If you really want to fix homelessness though, the best way to do it is add long-term, institutional psychiatric care to Medicaid. Homelessness is not about poverty, it's about untreated schizophrenia. Which is a lifelong condition that needs to be managed constantly, not just for a couple of weeks in an inpatient psych ward. I'm at a loss to understand why no politician anywhere can understand this. Ironically, it's the left that is probably the best hope for getting something like that done.

If you watch to the end you will see how they are handling it in Rhode Island - probably along the lines of what you have in mind.

So sad.
If I had superpowers, I would quietly euthanize them in the wee hours of night.
But how do we address the root of the problem?

Added: All that scrolling on the screen is annoying. Who does that?

dualstow wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:02 pm So sad.
If I had superpowers, I would quietly euthanize them in the wee hours of night.

You know, there's this thing addicts tend to do when you give them a bunch of their favorite drug...

But how do we address the root of the problem?

I don't think using drugs is a problem to be solved. But antisocial behavior like robbery, rape, property destruction... we have penalties for those already, the weirdest thing is not enforcing them. On that note, those police surrounding trash can meth man were incredibly restrained! If a dude spits on me I'd be liable to beat him unconscious.

You know who that guy reminded me of? When he said crystal meth was great and "thank you" to Seattle for enabling his lifestyle? This guy.

Added: All that scrolling on the screen is annoying. Who does that?

What's that supposed to mean?

Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:13 pm

dualstow wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:02 pm So sad.
If I had superpowers, I would quietly euthanize them in the wee hours of night.

You know, there's this thing addicts tend to do when you give them a bunch of their favorite drug...

(spoiler ahead)
watch Ricky Gervais’ After Life’ on Netflix

Added: All that scrolling on the screen is annoying. Who does that?

What's that supposed to mean?

When they show the police lists on monitors. Very hard on the eyes. It’s like MTV in its playful nascence.

I watched the video as well as the related one about heroin in Seattle.

The thing that pisses me off is that almost every single story starts out with I hurt my this or that, my doctor put me on pain medication, and it all spiraled out of control from there.

If there are truly people at these pharmaceutical companies that knew they were this addictive and should be limited in use vs. prescribed willy-nilly, there shouldn't just be civil lawsuits. It's time people go to jail. This stuff has led to the deaths of so many people.

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:04 pm ...
If there are truly people at these pharmaceutical companies that knew they were this addictive and should be limited in use vs. prescribed willy-nilly, there shouldn't just be civil lawsuits. It's time people go to jail. This stuff has led to the deaths of so many people.

Well, I doubt that's going to happen. I think I'm somewhere between you and Pug.

Are you going to put Philip Morris (Altria) execs in jail? What about Diageo? Glock?

A (relatively) recent episode of Nova also treated the subject:
https://www.pbs.org/video/addiction-afsxne/

dualstow wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:22 pm

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:04 pm ...
If there are truly people at these pharmaceutical companies that knew they were this addictive and should be limited in use vs. prescribed willy-nilly, there shouldn't just be civil lawsuits. It's time people go to jail. This stuff has led to the deaths of so many people.

Well, I doubt that's going to happen. I think I'm somewhere between you and Pug.

Are you going to put Philip Morris (Altria) execs in jail? What about Diageo? Glock?

Fair point. I'm just sick of all these white collar people and corporations getting slap on the wrist fines from the 2008 financial crisis, to opioids, to Wells Fargo fake accounts, to (hopefully some jail) for this school admissions scandal.

Interesting relevant post https://slopeofhope.com/2019/03/torches ... forks.html

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:04 pm I watched the video as well as the related one about heroin in Seattle.

The thing that pisses me off is that almost every single story starts out with I hurt my this or that, my doctor put me on pain medication, and it all spiraled out of control from there.

If there are truly people at these pharmaceutical companies that knew they were this addictive and should be limited in use vs. prescribed willy-nilly, there shouldn't just be civil lawsuits. It's time people go to jail. This stuff has led to the deaths of so many people.

The pharmaceutical companies can't win for losing. If you develop a drug to relieve pain then of course it is going to become addictive if the underlying cause of the pain, whether physical or psychological, isn't addressed. I don't see how that's their problem or why they should go to jail for it.

jacksonM wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:49 pm

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:04 pm I watched the video as well as the related one about heroin in Seattle.

The thing that pisses me off is that almost every single story starts out with I hurt my this or that, my doctor put me on pain medication, and it all spiraled out of control from there.

If there are truly people at these pharmaceutical companies that knew they were this addictive and should be limited in use vs. prescribed willy-nilly, there shouldn't just be civil lawsuits. It's time people go to jail. This stuff has led to the deaths of so many people.

The pharmaceutical companies can't win for losing. If you develop a drug to relieve pain then of course it is going to become addictive if the underlying cause of the pain, whether physical or psychological, isn't addressed. I don't see how that's their problem or why they should go to jail for it.

It seems Purdue/Sacklers have known for a very long time their product was incredibly addictive and easily abused but continued to push more sales and tried to downplay what was going on.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/15/heal ... ioids.html

I would bet many of these people who started opioids for pain and got addicted would have been much better off if something like marijuana was available more readily.

The thing that scared me, and maybe it isn't the same for all people, is these types of drugs seem to almost immediately cause rewiring of the brain causing you to need it. Regardless, if I ever need that level of pain control, I will find some other method. I have seen enough of this that I will never take one.

dualstow wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:33 pm Added: All that scrolling on the screen is annoying. Who does that?

When they show the police lists on monitors. Very hard on the eyes. It’s like MTV in its playful nascence.

You get used to it. I... I don't even see the police code. All I see is "bong," "syrette," "methhead."

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:09 pm

jacksonM wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:49 pm

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:04 pm I watched the video as well as the related one about heroin in Seattle.

The thing that pisses me off is that almost every single story starts out with I hurt my this or that, my doctor put me on pain medication, and it all spiraled out of control from there.

If there are truly people at these pharmaceutical companies that knew they were this addictive and should be limited in use vs. prescribed willy-nilly, there shouldn't just be civil lawsuits. It's time people go to jail. This stuff has led to the deaths of so many people.

The pharmaceutical companies can't win for losing. If you develop a drug to relieve pain then of course it is going to become addictive if the underlying cause of the pain, whether physical or psychological, isn't addressed. I don't see how that's their problem or why they should go to jail for it.

It seems Purdue/Sacklers have known for a very long time their product was incredibly addictive and easily abused but continued to push more sales and tried to downplay what was going on.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/15/heal ... ioids.html

I would bet many of these people who started opioids for pain and got addicted would have been much better off if something like marijuana was available more readily.

The thing that scared me, and maybe it isn't the same for all people, is these types of drugs seem to almost immediately cause rewiring of the brain causing you to need it. Regardless, if I ever need that level of pain control, I will find some other method. I have seen enough of this that I will never take one.

Well, I agree with you about marijuana. If there is a safer product for people to use to self-medicate for whatever reason then I haven't heard of it yet. And I speak as someone who used it for suicide prevention in Southeast Asia and now use it to treat back and neck problems to get a good night's sleep (only).

I'm hearing lots of stories about how it has been "linked" to schizoprenia and maybe this is true but isn't there such a thing as "alcoholic psychosis" and how many people die every year from alcohol poisoning as compared to those who overdose on marijuana? As far as I know the number in the latter case is exactly zero, the former much higher.

I have never read any statistics about how many people die from using opiods prescribed by a doctor while under a doctor's care but it would be very interesting to know if anybody has a good source for that information. Most of the stories I've read about death by opiods involve illegal drugs that people have to turn to when they can no longer get a prescription from the doctor. It may have started from prescription drugs but it didn't end there. But like I said I would be interested in confirmation of whether that is true or not.

I watched the rest of the video finally...whew.

I did not get the impression that you could chalk all this up to opioids. The people featured were on all sorts of things like crystal meth, and the main issue was a basic psychiatric pathology - either schizophrenia (mostly) or outright sociopaths that came to Seattle because they knew they would be free to do their thing (i.e. commit crimes). I think the sociopaths got most of the interview slots because it's difficult or impossible to get a coherent interview from a schizophrenic. And btw yes...hospitalizations for alcohol poisoning or withdrawal is common, but I have never seen one due to marijuana. Other drugs occasional to rare.

Sounds like Seattle is ripe for not only institutional psychiatric treatment and lockdown when needed, but also a Giuliani-style law enforcement push. It's interesting that one of the Giuliani initiatives was to crack down on "lifestyle" crimes like loitering, the windshield squeegee guys, public urination etc, as a way to head off more serious crimes. That turned out to be 100% correct. Seattle it seems has yet to figure that out.

Agree w/ you WiseOne, Pug.
- - -
The schizophrenics are homeless and addicted.

The people who won't let the police do their job and who promptly release mentally ill criminal offenders- what is *their* excuse for their insanity?

dualstow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:39 am The people who won't let the police do their job and who promptly release mentally ill criminal offenders- what is *their* excuse for their insanity?

Compassion? Big hearts?

I suppose. Sure is misplaced.

Tortoise wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:35 am

dualstow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:39 am The people who won't let the police do their job and who promptly release mentally ill criminal offenders- what is *their* excuse for their insanity?

Compassion? Big hearts?

dualstow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:05 pm I suppose. Sure is misplaced.

Tortoise wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:35 am

dualstow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:39 am The people who won't let the police do their job and who promptly release mentally ill criminal offenders- what is *their* excuse for their insanity?

Compassion? Big hearts?

And don't forget identity politics. I bet plenty of the offenders are members of Most Favored Minority groups.

WiseOne wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:00 pm And don't forget identity politics. I bet plenty of the offenders are members of Most Favored Minority groups.

The ones in the video are so white, they look like Martin Shkreli coming out of solitary.